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movies/tv a dark movie never equals a better movie


Mesme Rize

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There has been this on going theme over the last few years, where people have this strange perception that a darker plot equals a better movie, eventhough there is no evidence whatsoever that this is an actual fact.

 

Infact, i think dark movies have become very cliche recently, with movies about characters that have a dark past and that had a troubled childhood (something i like to call the Batman trope) and it just makes me sigh.

 

Is it really so bad to have a movie with a positive outlook on life, without getting into a dark and edgy territory? Seriously, give me a feel good movie like mary poppins and i take it over another dark and edgy comic book movie anyday.

 

What do you think about this?

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Well I haven't seen any of the DC Extended Universe movies, nor do I plan on doing so, given their reception, I would say that they would be a great example of how darker movies don't always equal good movies.

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There's a time and a place for dark themes - I rather doubt that The Godfather would have had quite the same impact with a 'feel good' tone, and the fascinating political intrigue in Game of Thrones wouldn't have nearly the same if the more treacherous, ruthless and ambitious side of humanity weren't a significant part of the narrative. 

 

That said, I haven't watched The Godfather or much of Game of Thrones because I don't like an exceptionally strong focus on dark themes in visual media as much*, preferring to keep it to written media (same for computer games, with Spec Ops: The Line and This War of Mine, both of which sound fascinating but I don't think I want to play.) I know what I like and in what format, so as long as I know upfront what something is trying to be I really don't mind if there are films (or books or games etc) with dark themes. 

 

I suppose the boundary cases are the interesting ones; Zootropolis covered difficult themes (I don't think it strayed anywhere too dark for a children's film though), but it did it well and didn't loose the 'feel good' theme. As a rule of thumb, I think a film (or any other media) that weaves dark or difficult themes in well, especially along with optimistic tones, shouldn't be criticised for doing so.

 

 

 

 

*Batman Begins was a cracking good film though, as I usually avoid comic book films like the plague, so there are exceptions. 

Edited by Once In A Blue Moon
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I do get what you mean on it. Though agreeing with

@They call me Loyalty

 

It is more Reference to Maturity, more or less.

 

But indeed. 'Dark' Themes don't always make a good movie. Its all about the Tid-bits That make it a good movie (i.e. Plot, characters etc.)

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I think it depends on the movie. I think it worked for Christopher Nolan's Batman Trilogy, but I don't think it worked for Superman. I think Superman would have benefited more from being a more lighthearted film. I think it is sort of a product of the world we live in right now with the threat of terrorism and the wars going on. 

Edited by joanro
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Some 'dark themes' can work even in an animated film, but I think it is about subtlety and that is what a lot of movies that try to be 'dark' lack. Batman V Superman is a good example. The entire friggin' movie seemed to be filmed with some dark filter to show you it means 'business'. That is just one example. Having a more dark theme that is subtle throughout the movie can add a bit more complexity to the overall plot, if done well. Nowadays though, it is all about hitting us over the head with how cool a movie is for being edgy.

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I love dark movies because i love to see character struggle in those bleak settings, where everything seem hopeless ;3 and earn their bitter sweet ending, works for me every time. Dark movies are usually unpredictable due to their unlimited ways to screw with characters (kill, rape, humiliate ...) that what i love the most about them, your characters are not safe all the time, they can be screwed. ;3

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The premise : "A dark movie never equals a better movie" doesn't make sense...

 

An X movie never equals a better movie, well duh! Nothing equals something "better" than it :P

 

Anyways, I like some dark movies, if it makes sense for the movie to be dark. Although a TV show, Wayward Pines is a good example of this. Dark City was also a good example... It even has dark in its name!

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I think it is a case by case basis... if the plot (or property) calls for it, then i think it is appropriate...  I mean I would not want to see Batman, The Crow, Silent Hill or some similar if it was all rainbows and happiness.... but I do agree a lot of films coming out more and more seem to be following a lot of that because they seem to think it will draw in viewers. Really whether it is any good or not is up to the viewers.... for some films it works and does a good job, for others.... meh it either just feels poorly done or forced upon us.

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There has been this on going theme over the last few years, where people have this strange perception that a darker plot equals a better movie, eventhough there is no evidence whatsoever that this is an actual fact.

 

Opinions are never fact. Because your opinion is that a darker plot means a poor film, doesn't make everyone else wrong. In other words, you can't state your opinion as a fact, while condemning opinions you don't agree with as wrong.

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Opinions are never fact. Because your opinion is that a darker plot means a poor film, doesn't make everyone else wrong. In other words, you can't state your opinion as a fact, while condemning opinions you don't agree with as wrong.

 

i am sorry. I should've better worded that. It was never my intention to say that my opinion is fact. It was more or less something that i wanted to get off my chest, because almost everything seems to be dark these days, even movies.

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I think it is a case by case basis... if the plot (or property) calls for it, then i think it is appropriate...  I mean I would not want to see Batman, The Crow, Silent Hill or some similar if it was all rainbows and happiness.... but I do agree a lot of films coming out more and more seem to be following a lot of that because they seem to think it will draw in viewers. Really whether it is any good or not is up to the viewers.... for some films it works and does a good job, for others.... meh it either just feels poorly done or forced upon us.

 

I would *love* to see a Silent Hill that was all rainbows and happiness. Just to see how the heck they'd pull that off.. :)

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Yep.

 

Overdone darkness can result in Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy.

Nifty, and makes perfect sense. 

The example there of the heroes being jerks themselves tho. That I don't think is a valid example, because jerks can be heroes. But to me its just evidence that there is skewing of the behavioral bell curve, and it can reveal how people irl act, regardless. Like, Sjws, they can be smug self-righteous etc, just like these heroes they criticize. And its realistic, and no one likes it. Does that deserve to be explored? Depends on the movie. Also if people can criticize that, Dark Souls is the definition of apathy there. Yet its still popular, just because it yields a negative effect doesn't mean its inherently bad.

 

But overall I agree, just think now 'all dark is bad' mentality might come through. It can be done well, it can yield a less terrible ending.

But also people can relate to it, depending on the audience. Why is there alcoholism, and drug use? They try to look cool n sexy too. Is it popular? Probably, to an extent, depends how you define drugs, if you count pot, or only hard drugs, or prescription abuse etc. Is that healthy? No. 

 

But then to psycho-analyze it further means analyzing the cartels etc etc, I am getting too in depth. Just saying, there is a demographic for it, and not just druggies, thats just an example.

 

I would *love* to see a Silent Hill that was all rainbows and happiness. Just to see how the heck they'd pull that off.. :)

Parasites that give you super-powers like Skullgirls perhaps, but more realistically done. And minus the fighting, but a utopia, a disturbing utopia lol. And people enjoying what we would not, due to brain parasites changing their perceptions, to make being a zombie or such feel very good, instead of very painful. Then again that wouldn't work without some type of magic, because they'd die very fast.

What do you think about this?

Just responding to the title really, mostly.

 

But people like the Dark Knight because it elicits stronger emotional responses, and the actor for the Joker was very well. And thats art, it can't just be sunshine n rainbows, if all media were like that what'd happen? People wouldn't care about negative consequences of others, and wouldn't even grasp what death is. Or if they do they would go insane, its just not sustainable. Life is full of pain, since childhood chicken pox. Some get it more than others. It helps them relate to their inner struggles perhaps. 

Edited by Lil Pip
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Some 'dark themes' can work even in an animated film, but I think it is about subtlety and that is what a lot of movies that try to be 'dark' lack. Batman V Superman is a good example. The entire friggin' movie seemed to be filmed with some dark filter to show you it means 'business'. That is just one example. Having a more dark theme that is subtle throughout the movie can add a bit more complexity to the overall plot, if done well. Nowadays though, it is all about hitting us over the head with how cool a movie is for being edgy.

 

Ok I gotta butt in here. This movie was not filmed with "filters". Like seriously everyone keeps saying this and it just shows a sever lack of knowledge concerning cinematography and film direction in general. That said, BvS was hardly a "dark" film. Serious? Yes.

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Ok I gotta butt in here. This movie was not filmed with "filters". Like seriously everyone keeps saying this and it just shows a sever lack of knowledge concerning cinematography and film direction in general. That said, BvS was hardly a "dark" film. Serious? Yes.

It was a long narrative heavy film, with alot of anticipation of the few 'dark' moments it had. The worst was the raising a dead 'demon' and superman getting nearly whacked, and they over dramatized the rest. Like, simpsons treehouse of horror has worse than that, and its pg.

Edited by Lil Pip
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I think it depends on the movie of course. Even a dark movie needs a bit of humor or just a calm day or some downtime to make it relatable. It gets boring if it's all dark, just like it gets boring if it's all sunshine and rainbows.

 

On the Disney theme, most of their movies are a mixture of everything. Lilo and Stitch is a great example of lightheartedness, beauty, quirky humor and an underlying sadness and frustration running all throughout in the face of a very real and relatable threat dealing with a struggling family trying to hold onto one another and just constantly taking one step forward and two steps back in the face of CPS.

 

Of course there's other greats like Fantasia, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, The Lion King, Mulan, Fox and the Hound.

 

Miyazaki's films drive those points home even further. Princess Mononoke, Pom Poko, Secret World of Arietty, My Neighbor Totoro.

 

 

As long as they don't go to far one way or the other.

I would *love* to see a Silent Hill that was all rainbows and happiness. Just to see how the heck they'd pull that off.. :)

In Silent Hill even the rainbows and bunnies try to kill you? :P Edited by Leave a Whisper
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THANK YOU! FINALLY!

 

I agree with you. Darker themes can help a movie in development and story telling when it comes to media, but being dark does not suddenly make that product better.

 

For example, it really annoys me when fans say that Kung Fu Panda 2 is SO much better than 3 because of it's darker themes. So what? Just because that film was dark and brooding does not instantly make it better than it's successor which focuses more on humour and spirituality. In fact, if all things were dark and "edgy", then wouldn't media get stale rather quickly. That has to be one of the few times that I've sided with critics over a fanbase.

 

Hell, sometimes being edgy makes a product worse, coming across as extremely forced and cringey. That's why I hate Shadow the Hedgehog so much ( the game and the character ).

Edited by Rarity the Supreme
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While both light and dark themes have their places in movies, it definitely seems that dark has been grossly overdone in recent years. There seems to be a prevailing consensus in Hollywood these days that dark equals cool. In my opinion, it does not. 

It may be interesting to see characters struggle with dark themes in the right time and place, but honestly, there is a bigger universe out there where the sun shines, flowers grow and people actually smile once in a while. How about a movie set in that world, just to see what happens? Trust me, it has as many compelling stories to tell as the latest bile from the major studios. 

I'm not interested in seeing how 'human' (i.e. weak) a character is when I go to see James Bond or Batman, etc. I want to see real heroes kick the butts of the ones who are too narrow minded to accept that darkness is a weakness be overcome rather than glamorized. It seems dark, brooding characters are sold on the premise that they're complex, struggling characters, but they never seem to actually address the problems that make them this way. They just keep shuffling on from movie to movie being 'cool.' Let's spell it out for what it is, Hollywood board rooms are too afraid to change their formula from the last ten movies they made. And sadly, those last ten movies were dark.

I'll stick with Mary Poppins, thanks. :P   

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I think dark subjects are fine if handled correctly.

Look at man of steel for an example supermans broody like batman

now the dark broody hero works well with batman not with superman.

its purely up to the viewer now Tim Burton's 9 is a good example of a good dark movie.

but not everyones gonna agree with me on that 

I think over usage of dark themes can and will weigh a movie down.

most of time producers will make a movie dark and gritty when it don't havta be. 

Edited by Nightshroud
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  • 4 years later...

Well the problem, regardless of whether dark movies do or do not equal better movies, is that it depends on the movie in question and the viewers personal tastes.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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