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Gender roles in same-sex ships?


KillerKingBakudan

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Which pony, in each of your non-hetero ships, do you think should be the "stallion", and which should be the "mare"?

 

In my head a same sex fictional coupling would be how it works in real life. Neither my daughter, nor her girlfriend, are the 'guy' in the relationship. 

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In my head a same sex fictional coupling would be how it works in real life. Neither my daughter, nor her girlfriend, are the 'guy' in the relationship. 

 

Do they plan to adopt kids? If they do, then taking on "guy" responsibilities may become necessary. Kids can't have a proper upbringing without a father-figure in their lives, or at the very least, not having too much of a motherly-influence.

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Do they plan to adopt kids? If they do, then taking on "guy" responsibilities may become necessary. Kids can't have a proper upbringing without a father-figure in their lives, or at the very least, not having too much of a motherly-influence.

Neither 'acts' like a guy, or embraces male gender roles, and they are both type B personalities so a power dynamic like that is non-existent.

 

They are 15. I'm certain they haven't decided on kids yet. At least I hope not :P

 

And no, not every family has a male and female role model as a parent. There are plenty of reasons why that doesn't happen.

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As someone who is Pansexual, and ive been in a same sex relationship with another girl, There really isnt any Guy/Girl roles in real life.
Personally i dont see how a role can have a assigned gender either, A close friend of mine raised their children after their husband passed. 
The children are fine, they grew up fine. They didnt have any male figure as even their teachers were female, 

In my relationship, my girlfriend at the time was more of a tomboy in her apperance than i was. However she still loved to wear makeup and 
get her hair done were i dont wear makeup at all, ill just throw my long hair in a bun and go about my day. So when people would curiously ask, 
"Who is the guy in your relationship?" and our usual reply was "Hopefully neither of us?"
 Theyd assume my GF was the 'Guy' based on her appearance and short hair, whereas in personality wise even though i am quite feminine; i suppose i was the "Guy".

 

 

Taking the Rarijack ship for example, 
Most people would have rarity as the 'girl' and Aj as the 'guy' due to their personalities,
Applejack, is tough, stubborn and does labour intensive work which are typically male roles, however,
she also bakes for her family, cleans and cares for applebloom in a motherly was which are more female roles.

Rarity goes to the spa, styles her mane, creates 'girly' designs, and is quite the diva - female roles
But again is working and opening many businesses (working being a stereotypical male role)
 and can come across as quite bossy. Ie Male roles. 

 

Even in M/M realtionships people think one has to macho and the other feminine. which isnt the case.

So to sum it all up, 
I dont think it really matters, Both ponies are both taking the male and female roles respectively, just in different ways.
I suppose its up to you and your personal opinion after all.   :D 

Hope this helps! and sorry for the long reply :P

Edited by Voseerie
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In my head a same sex fictional coupling would be how it works in real life. Neither my daughter, nor her girlfriend, are the 'guy' in the relationship. 

Well said, Jeric! I was going to post something along these lines, but you took care of it nicely.

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And no, not every family has a male and female role model as a parent. There are plenty of reasons why that doesn't happen.

 

That's true, but if either is missing, kids would still be missing out on a lot. Men can teach kids certain things women can't and vice versa. If neither partner is up to it, I think one of them should hook them up with the next best thing in their families, like an uncle or a grandfather.

 

Taking the Rarijack ship for example, 

Most people would have rarity as the 'girl' and Aj as the 'guy' due to their personalities,

Applejack, is tough, stubborn and does labour intensive work which are typically male roles, however,

she also bakes for her family, cleans and cares for applebloom in a motherly was which are more female roles.

 

Rarity goes to the spa, styles her mane, creates 'girly' designs, and is quite the diva - female roles

But again is working and opening many businesses (working being a stereotypical male role)

 and can come across as quite bossy. Ie Male roles. 

 

Even in M/M realtionships people think one has to macho and the other feminine. which isnt the case.

So to sum it all up, 

I dont think it really matters, Both ponies are both taking the male and female roles respectively, just in different ways.

I suppose its up to you and your personal opinion after all.   :D 

 

Hope this helps! and sorry for the long reply :P

For me, it ultimately comes down to how they'd care for their adopted fillies. In this case, Applejack would have to be the "stallion" because even if she's not directly doing "fatherly" things for them, she has plenty of actual stallions in her family that can. Taking them on camping trips or birthday parties with Big Mac would be a blessing.

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???

Shouldn't they both contribute just as much? I don't get what you mean by, "men can teach kids things women can't." Care to explain?

 

It feels like you're unusually involved in this.

 

I'm not actually a father myself. I'm just an uncle, so perhaps this can explain it better than I can.

 

http://www.parenting.com/article/why-kids-need-their-dads

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Neither 'acts' like a guy, or embraces male gender roles, and they are both type B personalities so a power dynamic like that is non-existent.

 

They are 15. I'm certain they haven't decided on kids yet. At least I hope not  :P

 

And no, not every family has a male and female role model as a parent. There are plenty of reasons why that doesn't happen.

 

Ill be honest, being raised by a mother.

And having spent a whole lot of time with a friend that had a traditional mom/dad family.

 

I think your above comment is (Respectfully) Bollocks.

_

You can 100% have a upbringing thats perfectly normal with a single parent. Because 'affection' is not a motherly thing. Its a parental thing.

Rules/Boundries are not a matter of male/female.

There are requirements that one sex tends to fill in a upbringing, but they are not really male/female.

-

Because as Dio asked.

What exactly can a guy teach that women can't and visa versa? (Because before you answer, your most likely projecting and not actually making a point)

______

 

Using your link as a example.

I know children who never rough housed with there fathers.

I Learned boxing/Krav maga from my mother.....

I'm just going to shorten my answer...

 My mother did all that stuff...  None of that is Male/Female Specific. If you think it is, that's you. If the Researches think it is. They suck at the scientific method.  

_________________________________________________

As a answer to the actual question at hand.

_

#1: I know same sex couples that do actually fill traditional roles. but I know one's that don't. I also know couples that fill the role you would not expect. (The more feminine girl being the more in charge)

_

There are a few of the same sex pairings in MLP/EQ that I can see having roles.

 

Sunset/Sci-Twi/Twilight. - Sunset would most likely be the more 'masculine' of the two.

But there are pairings that I don't think would be like that. umm. examlpe....

 

 

Rairty / Fluttershy... Both girls.

AJ/RBD is the classical example.. but to be fair.. I'm 100% convinced that would never work for long. There would be a traditional dynamic.. it would end in traditional domestic violence by AJ against RBD...

 

__________________two side notes_________________

 

My childhood was messed up... but not because of lack of a father figure. (My father was there, he was just a invalid and didn't fill any role)

I had to grow up quick.

______________________________________________

I'm raising Three girls myself.

I'm not a single father in that the two girls are my younger sister and two Nieces.

But I am legally there guardian and more or less "Parents"

 

And I'll be honest.... As a teacher/Parent, Seeing other parents..

There not missing anything other then... a 2nd parent.

No role is going unfilled.

There is a advantage to having two parents with two parenting styles. but it has nothing to do with male/females.

Edited by blackstarraven
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(edited)

Ill be honest, being raised by a mother.

And having spent a whole lot of time with a friend that had a traditional mom/dad family.

 

I think your above comment is (Respectfully) Bollocks.

_

You can 100% have a upbringing thats perfectly normal with a single parent. Because 'affection' is not a motherly thing. Its a parental thing.

Rules/Boundries are not a matter of male/female.

There are requirements that one sex tends to fill in a upbringing, but they are not really male/female.

-

Because as Dio asked.

What exactly can a guy teach that women can't and visa versa? (Because before you answer, your most likely projecting and not actually making a point)

______

 

Using your link as a example.

I know children who never rough housed with there fathers.

I Learned boxing/Krav maga from my mother.....

I'm just going to shorten my answer...

 My mother did all that stuff...  None of that is Male/Female Specific. If you think it is, that's you. If the Researches think it is. They suck at the scientific method.  

_________________________________________________

As a answer to the actual question at hand.

_

#1: I know same sex couples that do actually fill traditional roles. but I know one's that don't. I also know couples that fill the role you would not expect. (The more feminine girl being the more in charge)

_

There are a few of the same sex pairings in MLP/EQ that I can see having roles.

 

Sunset/Sci-Twi/Twilight. - Sunset would most likely be the more 'masculine' of the two.

But there are pairings that I don't think would be like that. umm. examlpe....

 

 

Rairty / Fluttershy... Both girls.

AJ/RBD is the classical example.. but to be fair.. I'm 100% convinced that would never work for long. There would be a traditional dynamic.. it would end in traditional domestic violence by AJ against RBD...

 

__________________two side notes_________________

 

My childhood was messed up... but not because of lack of a father figure. (My father was there, he was just a invalid and didn't fill any role)

I had to grow up quick.

______________________________________________

I'm raising Three girls myself.

I'm not a single father in that the two girls are my younger sister and two Nieces.

But I am legally there guardian and more or less "Parents"

 

And I'll be honest.... As a teacher/Parent, Seeing other parents..

There not missing anything other then... a 2nd parent.

No role is going unfilled.

There is a advantage to having two parents with two parenting styles. but it has nothing to do with male/females.

I'm just going to say that if my dad hadn't been around to knock the crap out of me for misbehaving, I'd probably be in a gang doing criminal acts or rotting away in a prison cell. He gave me a moral compass to keep that from happening. Do all kids without fathers develop that way? Obviously not, but I am seeing a correlation between that and all the dumb shits we have in juvenile prisons who think being a thug is normal.

 

Of course, being raised by deadbeat mothers can be to blame for that too. My mother is a paranoid schizophrenic who only ever cared about money, so if she was the only parent in my life, I'm sure my upbringing would have been complete chaos.

 

If your mother really taught you all of those things, that's great. But it doesn't invalidate the statistics on fatherless homes.

 

https://thefatherlessgeneration.wordpress.com/statistics/

Edited by KillerKingBakudan
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I'm just going to say that if my dad hadn't been around to knock the crap out of me for misbehaving, I'd probably be in a gang doing criminal acts or rotting away in a prison cell. Do all kids without fathers develop that way? Obviously not, but I am seeing a correlation between that and all the dumb shits we have in juvenile prisons who think being a thug is normal. Of course, being raised by deadbeat mothers can be to blame for that too.

 

Now if you're mother really taught you all of those things, that's great. But it doesn't invalidate the statistics on fatherless homes.

 

https://thefatherlessgeneration.wordpress.com/statistics/

 

No what it does is show that statistics are just that. Numbers. How we interpret things is all up to us.

 

I tend to find its more about, if your in a home that has a deadbeat father or no father at all. its much more likely that the house is disrupted on a more fundamental level.

Women with bad taste in men (And visa-versa) Tend to not have there crap together at  higher level.

 

And that kind of also goes back to my point of two parents giving to different perspectives. But its not a mom/dad issue.

If I had a 2nd parent to give me a different perspective from my mother? I might not be so damn angry all the time....

 

If my father had not been made a invalid that I had to take care of when my mother fell ill. I might not be so cynical.

-

 

But just saying "Oh these kids didn't have a dad, thus they turned out bad." that's "Texas Sharpshooting"

Its more more accurate to say.

 

Children who live in a family that is broken and dysfunctional are more likely to have issues.

If you want me to I can pull up studies that show that same sex couples are just as good at raising kids as normal man/women couples.

Actually I can show you studies that show they are better at raising kids. (But I think those are subject to texas sharp shooting also)

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If you want me to I can pull up studies that show that same sex couples are just as good at raising kids as normal man/women couples.

Actually I can show you studies that show they are better at raising kids. (But I think those are subject to texas sharp shooting also)

 

If you have them, then by all means. Show them.

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If you have them, then by all means. Show them.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/study-finds-same-sex-couples-make-better-parents-it-because-theyre-more-prepared-291628

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/07/children-of-same-sex-couples-are-happier-and-healthier-than-peers-research-shows/?utm_term=.259962f2469c

 

https://qz.com/438469/the-science-is-clear-children-raised-by-same-sex-parents-are-at-no-disadvantage/

 

-

That is the tip of the iceberg....

I could literally post dozens...

 

But I think its more important to explain to you what the term "Texas Sharpshooter" Is....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

--

 

P.S.: If your interested in the subject. You can also look at cultures that raise communally.

_____

 

 

 

 

But as a side note. I think that this train of conversation has side tracked the threat quite enough..

Edited by blackstarraven
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http://www.medicaldaily.com/study-finds-same-sex-couples-make-better-parents-it-because-theyre-more-prepared-291628

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/07/children-of-same-sex-couples-are-happier-and-healthier-than-peers-research-shows/?utm_term=.259962f2469c

 

https://qz.com/438469/the-science-is-clear-children-raised-by-same-sex-parents-are-at-no-disadvantage/

 

-

That is the tip of the iceberg....

I could literally post dozens...

 

But I think its more important to explain to you what the term "Texas Sharpshooter" Is....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

--

 

P.S.: If your interested in the subject. You can also look at cultures that raise communally.

_____

 

 

 

 

But as a side note. I think that this train of conversation has side tracked the threat quite enough..

I think you misread my post when you called it nonsense. I don't believe parenting or a specific parent has to take on any gender role. I even phrased each statement so that it was factual, not an opinion derived through facts.

 

I would posit that many perceived parental gender roles are mostly based on an power dynamic within the parents (which I aluded to) and also some comfort and conditioning. Like you I was raised by a single parent (father). My experience in being married since 1999, and being a parent since 2000, gender roles in parents are mostly about relationship dynamics and internalized views of myriad factors that make up our personal philosophy.

 

I could out-cook my wife any day of the week and twice in Sunday. I wouldn't like her doing anything besides prep (and she often messed that up :P). That was mostly because I enjoy the piss out of doing things I am good at as it, quite frankly, feels damn good to your self-esteem. I wasn't filling a female gender role. I simply like being good at something.

 

I also didn't rough house as much with my kids. Not my style of parenting. Which brings me to my final point, and one that may only make sense to those on this site who know my family, and I'll leave it at that.

 

Gender can be a factor in parenting, but it's not too down, it's bottom up. More than just one dynamic exists. In a home with two parents and two kids, you have multiple dynamics. It is why most social Psychologists have to redo their studies now due to replicability issues, but that's a whole different ball of wax.

 

Anyway, I'm doubling down on how I read literature with same sex characters. I focus on power dynamics, not the concept of adopting a gender. No one has to take the mom or dad role.

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Which pony, in each of your non-hetero ships, do you think should be the "stallion", and which should be the "mare"?

What the fork?

There is no man/stallion in a lesbian relationship and there is no woman/mare in a gay relationship.

Everyone does what they can do (best).

 

As an example:

Rarity would sew the clothes and Applejack would cook in their relationship.

Edited by Aya. K.
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Which pony, in each of your non-hetero ships, do you think should be the "stallion", and which should be the "mare"?

You're missing the point of lgbt ships if you think in terms of the hetero binary. As much as I loathe Tumblr, they are right in this regard. 

 

I am a man. I am attracted to men. I do not want a man who acts like a chick, nor do I feel any desire to behave like a woman. The truth behind the question 'who wears the pants in the relationship," is that both of them do. Same applies to my ships. 

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You're missing the point of lgbt ships if you think in terms of the hetero binary. As much as I loathe Tumblr, they are right in this regard. 

 

I am a man. I am attracted to men. I do not want a man who acts like a chick, nor do I feel any desire to behave like a woman. The truth behind the question 'who wears the pants in the relationship," is that both of them do. Same applies to my ships. 

 

You're taking the subject literally.

Gender roles don't dictate how you should act. It just means doing things associated with another gender. Male nurses and female soldiers do that every day.

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On 3/20/2017 at 5:41 PM, KillerKingBakudan said:

 

You're taking the subject literally.

 

Gender roles don't dictate how you should act. It just means doing things associated with another gender. Male nurses and female soldiers do that every day.

Of course I am, so are many people who responded to this topic. 

 

If "Gender roles" do not dictate how you should act, then why are you asking the question in the first place? Also, how is saying that you meant "doing things associated with another gender" change what you mean? if anything it requires me to further reinforce the idea that lgbt couples do NOT need to conform to the hetero binary, nor "should" they, to use the word you used. 

I really don't get the male nurse and female soldier example either. What does that have to do with the original question of who should be the "stallion" and who should be the "mare?" 

Are you saying if a dude is a nurse he can't be a stallion, that he's the mare in the relationship regardless? Or vice versa with the female soldier thing? 

 

Like I said, when you break it down, the world doesn't work that way for lgbt people, period. Our relationships are fundamentally different because we don't NEED to choose who the dude is and who the chick is. They CAN do it that way, but why? The whole selling point is we are attracted to something different. 

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(edited)
21 hours ago, Buck Testa said:

Of course I am, so are many people who responded to this topic. 

 

If "Gender roles" do not dictate how you should act, then why are you asking the question in the first place? Also, how is saying that you meant "doing things associated with another gender" change what you mean?

I really don't get the male nurse and female soldier example either. What does that have to do with the original question of who should be the "stallion" and who should be the "mare?" 

Are you saying if a dude is a nurse he can't be a stallion, that he's the mare in the relationship regardless? Or vice versa with the female soldier thing?

I'm using male nurses and female soldiers to illustrate a point. It doesn't have to be directly related to the question to make sense. Do male nurses dress in women's clothing or wear cosmetics when they're not at work? Obviously not. They're still men, and nobody suggested they should stop being men for having that occupation. But they're practically taking on a feminine gender role just by having that job position anyway. Same for women having a masculine gender role by serving in the military. This is about bearing the title of the opposite gender, not actually being that gender. The quotations were used for a reason. When you drop them, of course you're not gonna get it.

In terms of same-sex relationships, it can be argued that between two lesbians, the "guy" could be the one with the more male-oriented job, hobbies, paternal outlook on parenting, etc. It doesn't mean she has to start taking extremes like dressing in men's clothes or outright refusing to do anything feminine. That's something a transgender would do, and that's not what this subject is about.

People may have used Rarijack as an example that both Rarity and Applejack can be "mares" in their relationship. But I would argue that Applejack fits the bill of a "stallion" just for having a dirty job and an interest in sports, both of which are far more masculine than anything Rarity's ever done. And in any ship involving Rainbow Dash, it's easy to assume she could be the "stallion" just by the fact she's a tomboy. It's not that complicated.

Edited by KillerKingBakudan
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10 minutes ago, KillerKingBakudan said:

I'm using male nurses and female soldiers to illustrate a point. It doesn't have to be directly related to the question. Do male nurses dress in women's clothing or wear cosmetics when they're not at work? Obviously not. They're still men, and nobody suggested they should stop being men for having that occupation. But they're practically taking on a feminine gender role just by having that job position anyway. Same for women having a masculine gender role by serving in the military. This is about bearing the title of the opposite gender, not actually being that gender. The quotations were used for a reason. When you drop them, of course you're not gonna get it.

In terms of LGBT relationships, it can be argued that between two lesbians, the "guy" could be the one with the more male-oriented job, hobbies, paternal outlook on parenting, etc. It doesn't mean she has to start taking extremes like dressing in men's clothes or outright refusing to do anything feminine. That's something a transgender would do, and that's not what this subject is about.

People may have used Rarijack as an example that both Rarity and Applejack can be "mares" in their relationship, but I would argue that Applejack fits the bill of a "stallion" just for having a dirty job and an interest in sports. In any ship involving Rainbow Dash, it's easy to assume she could be the "stallion" just by the fact she's a tomboy.

My issue here is the idea of needing to gender things like jobs to begin with. That is a dated practice back when lgbt was largely shunned. When a gay dude keeps telling you repeatedly that we do not operate like that, it really should click that using the hetero binary to describe roles in a gay relationship is fundamentally incorrect. It doesn't matter if there are quotation marks or not, you just should not assume that those roles even apply when it comes to an lgbt couple. I really don't know of any other way I can explain this. Your premise itself it just faulty to begin with. 

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Just now, Buck Testa said:

My issue here is the idea of needing to gender things like jobs to begin with. That is a dated practice back when lgbt was largely shunned. When a gay dude keeps telling you repeatedly that we do not operate like that, it really should click that using the hetero binary to describe roles in a gay relationship is fundamentally incorrect. It doesn't matter if there are quotation marks or not, you just should not assume that those roles even apply when it comes to an lgbt couple. I really don't know of any other way I can explain this. Your premise itself it just faulty to begin with. 

Only if you choose to look at gender roles as anything more than a societal construct, which you've been doing this whole time. When you use the word "operate", you're implying that having such roles is a conscious choice when it isn't.

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