Fixing the subscriber list

[Twilight Sparkle ✨ 8,520]

A longstanding tradition of Poniverse has been to give former staff most of the forum perks associated with a subscription as a token of appreciation for their service. This was accomplished by placing all former staff in the "Subscribers" group on MLP Forums.

 

Over the years, however, the list of MLPF's subscribers grew very long as staff came and went. This had the side effect of making it look like we have about 10 times the financial support we actually do.

 

In an effort to improve transparency, the subscriber list has been corrected to only list actual subscribers now; former staff continue to be distinguished by being in a new "Retired Staff" group.

 

For those of you who've thought financially supporting Poniverse, I figured that having a better idea of how much support we already have may affect your decision. To those who already subscribe, thank you - I hope you appreciate this information as well.

 

The more subscribers we have, the more ambitious we can get with things like picking server hardware, funding community events, and rep'ing our projects at conventions. And you get cool perks like a larger signature and a custom title, too!   If you want to grab a subscription now, they start at $5 USD/month on the forum store.

[Storm 199]

For months I thought all subscribers were former staff XD 

Than like last month I learned only some were. x3

It's pretty cool to see who were former staff members!

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,274]

Personally I think once someone hits a certain threshold they should simply keep the donor status.

[Twilight Sparkle ✨ 8,520]

Personally I think once someone hits a certain threshold they should simply keep the donor status.

 

 

I appreciate the suggestion but unfortunately, our bills don't stop coming once we've paid a certain number of them. I'd rather be upfront about that, so our donor/subscriber perks will continue being structured to encourage and reward recurring donors. Without recurring revenue, there won't be an MLP Forums for anyone to enjoy.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,274]

I appreciate the suggestion but unfortunately, our bills don't stop coming once we've paid a certain number of them. I'd rather be upfront about that, so our donor/subscriber perks will continue being structured to encourage and reward recurring donors. Without recurring revenue, there won't be an MLP Forums for anyone to enjoy.

Do what you will, but I cannot say that I like that system. Makes me kinda feel like the $100+ I gave to the forums over time means basically nothing since I didn't keep giving month after month.

[GrimGrimoire 4,970]

Do what you will, but I cannot say that I like that system. Makes me kinda feel like the $100+ I gave to the forums over time means basically nothing since I didn't keep giving month after month.

 

 

What do you not like about it? It is the reality of life. When you pay your electric bill, water bill, phone bill or whatever, they do not decide to give you the service for free after you have payed a certain amount. Same with video games... after you have put down several hundred buying them, they do not suddenly start becoming free to acquire due to the money you have spent in the past. The donation is entirely voluntary so you are free to help as you are able and see fit.

 

 

As Feld0 stated, the bills will keep coming.... they don't get the option to say, "Well we have payed enough I think for our servers and support, so that's that"... because if they did the response would be "OK, sorry you feel that way, enjoy your HTTP 404. Have a nice day" As long as everything to run the site costs money, so to will they ask for donations from members to help cover the costs of those services the members so willingly use. I honestly think they are beyond fair since they put virtually nothing behind a paywall, and offer minor perks for those who just want to support what they use and love, despite how many make use of them.

 

 

Or is it just the term "donor" itself that is annoying you? Rereading what you wrote, I am wondering if I am misunderstanding you? What would you suggest that perhaps the site has not thought of or considered?

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,274]

What do you not like about it? It is the reality of life. When you pay your electric bill, water bill, phone bill or whatever, they do not decide to give you the service for free after you have payed a certain amount. Same with video games... after you have put down several hundred buying them, they do not suddenly start becoming free to acquire due to the money you have spent in the past. The donation is entirely voluntary so you are free to help as you are able and see fit.

 

 

As Feld0 stated, the bills will keep coming.... they don't get the option to say, "Well we have payed enough I think for our servers and support, so that's that"... because if they did the response would be "OK, sorry you feel that way, enjoy your HTTP 404. Have a nice day" As long as everything to run the site costs money, so to will they ask for donations from members to help cover the costs of those services the members so willingly use. I honestly think they are beyond fair since they put virtually nothing behind a paywall, and offer minor perks for those who just want to support what they use and love, despite how many make use of them.

 

 

Or is it just the term "donor" itself that is annoying you? Rereading what you wrote, I am wondering if I am misunderstanding you? What would you suggest that perhaps the site has not thought of or considered?

Bills are not donation boxes. 

 

What is annoying me is the idea of not just letting someone keep the donor if they donate to a certain. I mean, christ, if someone gives you over $100 or more to keep your forum alive, they deserve respect, not being thrown under the rug just because they may have stopped at some point. It makes the whole thing feel like some Kickstarter project that doesn't ever end. To me, making a forum that one clearly cannot afford to upkeep isn't a good idea on its own but to eventually ignore those who gave you money before just because they are not doing it all the time feels really shady.

 

Just my opinion on the subject.

[Snow 5,305]

Bills are not donation boxes. 

 

What is annoying me is the idea of not just letting someone keep the donor if they donate to a certain. I mean, christ, if someone gives you over $100 or more to keep your forum alive, they deserve respect, not being thrown under the rug just because they may have stopped at some point.

i have donated $200 to the forums itself and close to another $300 towards events and charities advertised and run by the forums, i have done so as a thank you or out of the willingness to help others. a big part of charity and donations is generosity and selflessness, you aren't suppose to expect reward from an act of kindness, it is suppose to be out of good will.

this has strayed a bit too far form the point of this thread for which a apologise.

 

as for the new implementation i think its quite smart, heck, didn't know you use to be staff kyoshi.

Edited March 22, 2017 by JU88snow

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,274]

i have donated $200 to the forums itself and close to another $300 towards events and charities advertised and run by the forums, i have done so as a thank you or out of the willingness to help others. a big part of charity and donations is generosity and selflessness, you aren't suppose to expect reward from an act of kindness, it is suppose to be out of good will.

 

this has strayed a bit too far form the point of this thread for which a apologise.

 

as for the new implementation i think its quite smart, heck, didn't know you use to be staff kyoshi.

If we weren't constantly being asked to the fund the forums outright, I wouldn't have as many issues. I think people should be acknowledged in full for the kind acts they do. That's all I am saying. Not going to bother saying anymore on it though. Nothing I say on this site really matters, hence why I am not staff anymore.

[GrimGrimoire 4,970]

Bills are not donation boxes. 

 

What is annoying me is the idea of not just letting someone keep the donor if they donate to a certain. I mean, christ, if someone gives you over $100 or more to keep your forum alive, they deserve respect, not being thrown under the rug just because they may have stopped at some point. It makes the whole thing feel like some Kickstarter project that doesn't ever end. To me, making a forum that one clearly cannot afford to upkeep isn't a good idea on its own but to eventually ignore those who gave you money before just because they are not doing it all the time feels really shady.

 

Just my opinion on the subject.

 

No they are not. That does not change the fact bills are there all the same and someone has to foot them. They could easily make the site subscription based and that would fix some of it, but that would not be in the best interests of their overall user base would it. You could argue though that much of the "donations" is a form of subscription for many of the small perks they offer in exchange. Keeping the servers running is non-negotiable, no one gets to decide it is enough, because as I said, to do so means the doors shut. Donations allow you to be here and to utilize something you enjoy, which you obviously do since you utilize the site and have contributed quite a lot of time to it and its other users.

 

You could argue perhaps a new title for those who have donated a certain amount over a given period, but I don't think mixing former donors and current donors under the donor tag is a good idea, since as was stated it makes things very confusing and makes it look like there are more current donors than there really are.

 

They also have never once throw you under the rug or ignored you. Where have they disrespected you or taken away your privilege to use the site the way you see fit? Let's not be misleading here.You lose a few perks is all, and it is pretty much stated that you have to donate to use those perks. It is up to the  individual if they are worth it or not.

 

As for your statement about forum upkeep... this one is just ludicrous. The forum is not just "theirs". It is everyone's, since everyone is using it. I can make a site and upkeep it just fine for myself and only myself, but if all of you decide to visit everyday and utilize its features, then it becomes a whole different beast. This site is just part of a massive project that a multitude of users utilize every single day.... to say it is someones elses job to handle it all and pay for it it is frankly disturbing, and what i dislike about most communities. Subscriptions and donations are what make it all possible for EVERYONE to enjoy something. Otherwise everyone has NOTHING. It really is that simple. A forum is the very definition of a community, and a community works together to make things happen the benefit the whole.

 

If you don't want to donate, that is your choice. If you have a better idea about how to go about it, please share. But a site asking for its user base to help share in its upkeep so they can all continue to use it together and continue to benefit from its use, is anything but shady.

[Rikifive 23,485]

In that case, I can say, that 'you got me'. I thought there were subscribers all over the place. 
That was a good idea in my opinion, now the subscribers get more highlight they deserve and of course, gives a clearer view on how things are going. 
 
 
 

Do what you will, but I cannot say that I like that system. Makes me kinda feel like the $100+ I gave to the forums over time means basically nothing since I didn't keep giving month after month.

I kinda agree with that. I mean, while I understand why it is like this and all the stuff behind the scenes, it feels kinda bad to get the $100 bonuses (such as custom badge), but lose it the next month like you'd never contribute. Better save the badge and at least keep your well deserved .png file while you can! (otherwise the hard work of the artists will be wasted, oh no!) 
I mean, I don't mind that, don't get me wrong. (says the one, who didn't even donate :-P ). That's true, that donating isn't something you should be expecting rewards for. It's an act of kindness, as mentioned before. If I would have much of spare money, I'd donate even if there weren't any bonuses, because I like the site and I appreciate the work, that staff is doing here.
 
Perhaps a better solution would be to make the purchase cost dependable on the tier like it is now, but drop it to $5/month or at least to some % of the original price for keeping it active? Maybe that would encourage members to buy the better ones and especially, totally encourage to keep the subscription active, because otherwise they would have to pay the original price again, if they'd like to get it back.
Well, don't mind me, I'm just thinking loudly.

 
 

 Snips has removed the quote contents to shrink the size of the quote. Good job Snips! 

The difference is, that you need water, electricity and stuff like this, so even though you hate paying for this, you have to, unlike with subscription, where you need to actually encourage people, because they're not forced to pay. That's an inaccurate comparison. Imagine what would happen if the water cost went ridiculously high - you probably would still pay, even if that would require an extra effort from your side, because you'd have to - now what would happen if the prices would go extremely high there, on the forums? Probably nobody would even look at that, except generous rich people.
 
Same goes with games, once you'll buy a game, you keep it forever (with some .. *sigh*... exceptions). Still having to pay for other games is like comparing it to purchasing every single subscription on this forum - at once. If I'd have to pay for a game monthly in order to play it, I wouldn't even look a that.   
But there you're right - it's completely voluntary, so nobody can really complain there. That's nothing mandatory that brings terror.   Also, I understand why these are needed and such.

Anyway, as I said, I'd gladly subscribe even if there weren't any bonuses, but I can't even really afford buying games, because polish currency makes everything ~4 (when in $); ~ 5 (when in €) times more expensive, so that terrible exchange rate hurts more, when it happens often or at least monthly.  :-P

Edited March 22, 2017 by Rikifive

[Jeric 46,834]

This isn't a perfect analogy, but it reminds me of the old movie theater I worked at in high school. Most movie theaters cover their operating costs through concession sales. Our general manager never liked things like suggestive selling, up selling, or the tradition of not allowing outside food and beverages. The theater received tons of foot traffic and attendance. More than most I've seen. Our per cap (the average amount each patron spent) was dangerously low though. Less than a dollar if memory serves. He never changed the policy though, and the lack of revenue caught up to them.

 

A few years later they had to close it down. It still sits empty. Whenever it came up in conversation with people they were shocked that it didn't make money simply because it was a busy theater. Two take aways from this were:

 

1. The patrons assumed financial stability was measured by popularity.

 

2. Management reinforced this misconception through passive policy.

 

Removing former staff from subscription rolls is a good business decision in that it dispells a similar illusion of fiscal security that may not exist.

 

The site has an overhead, and while they don't stick their hats out and say "halp!", Poniverse should at least avoid the mistake my former theater manager did by creating an illusion of mountains of wealth and treasure. They certainly aren't better served by making it look like they have more inflow than they really do.

 

I still say the top subscription level is ugly and a barrier to entry by virtue of it's gaudiness, but that's another​ story.

[AppleDashPoni 165]

I do not agree with many of the things said here, but this does give me a bit of an interesting thought - whenever we finally implement centralized billing and subscriptions, we could perhaps have a subscribers page on the Poniverse main site, with a section thanking current subscribers and another further down the page thanking past subscribers. That way they won't ever be forgotten to the public.

[Jeric 46,834]

I do not agree with many of the things said here, but this does give me a bit of an interesting thought - whenever we finally implement centralized billing and subscriptions, we could perhaps have a subscribers page on the Poniverse main site, with a section thanking current subscribers and another further down the page thanking past subscribers. That way they won't ever be forgotten to the public.

Giving the financial supporters more visibility would be a splendid idea. I know I sometimes lean on the pragmatic business side of things ... but that idea is just good old fashioned courtesy and gratitude.

[Hypn0ticD 1,213]

Ahh. I was wondering what was going on, but I understand and support this decision, @Feld0! 

[TwilightPomegranate 324]

If you sub, then would you have to pay for it every month?

[Jeric 46,834]

54 minutes ago, December Turquoise said:

If you sub, then would you have to pay for it every month?

Subscription usually means ongoing. Like 'I subscribe to cable or Netflix or Newsweek'. It's recurring. Obviously you can cancel it interests or fiance's change.

Donor status is given for single donation so you don't have a recurring subscription, but it does have an end date. 

[TwilightPomegranate 324]

12 hours ago, Jeric said:

Subscription usually means ongoing. Like 'I subscribe to cable or Netflix or Newsweek'. It's recurring. Obviously you can cancel it interests or fiance's change.

Donor status is given for single donation so you don't have a recurring subscription, but it does have an end date. 

Ok, and another thing..

 

For example, say you subscribed and got your stuff.

 

When it hits the expiration date, would your benefits be taken away? Or no?

[Snow 5,305]

14 minutes ago, December Turquoise said:

Ok, and another thing..

 

For example, say you subscribed and got your stuff.

 

When it hits the expiration date, would your benefits be taken away? Or no?

When the subscription is stopped so are the benifits, 2 hunna dolla made me a pink fluffy unicorn for 2 months for example. I didn't pay for a third month so I stopped geting all the benifits, this is true for all levels of subscription.

>.> sorry for making an unrelated reply twice guys...

Edited April 1, 2017 by JU88snow
Guilt maybe ;3;