S07:E01+02 - Celestial Advice/All Bottled Up

[Sonic5421 423]

Okay, after watching the first episode of Season 7 with Celestial Advice, that episode, for the most part, redeemed To Where and Back Again somewhat in my eyes with making up for Celestia's treatment there by having her in a more active role here as Twilight turned to her for advice, and we get to see some character development for Celestia that probably had been a long time coming.

It may not have been a full Celestia-themed episode, but it still made up for To Where and Back Again as Nicole Oliver really gave Celestia a workout here. I loved her laugh as we've never heard Celestia laugh that heartily before, and some backstory regarding Celestia's point-of-view regarding sending Twilight to Ponyville back in the season premiere. One look at the Mare In The Moon, and Celestia tearfully knew what she had to do. She even spoke to Mayor Mare about it, and got a first-hand look at the Element of Harmony bearers that would become Twilight's best friends as well. Then we get her paranoia about what Twilight might encounter in Ponyville, such as the Manticore or Tartarus, and her heartbreak when she finally watched Twilight leave to begin the Summer Sun Celebration preparations in Ponyville. Truly a heartwarming moment between the Princess of the Sun and the Princess of Friendship.

Also, glad to see that we still got that awards ceremony to thank Starlight's Suicide Squad for having helped save the Mane Six and Royal Family from Chrysalis and turned one of Equestria's most feared enemies into one of their most powerful allies as well, and everyone was there to celebrate, including Mayor Mare, Double Diamond and the others from Starlight's old village, Cadance and Shining Armor with Sunburst, the Crusaders, and a few of the reformed Changelings as well. They seem to be doing a pretty good job making amends with everypony and integrating into pony society.

 

As for the second episode, All Bottled Up, it was nice to see the Mane Six taking some time to go on a Friendship Retreat to Manehattan while Trixie and Starlight looked after the castle. Also, nice to see how when Starlight loses her temper at Trixie, it manifests as a red storm cloud that she tries to control before resorting to bottling it up, which only drains her physically and magically, so when the bottle breaks and infects Bulk, Granny Smith, and the jeweler with her anger, Trixie suffers the inevitable wrath before Starlight regains enough strength to recall it and give Trixie a good tongue-lashing ending in her famous "QUIET!!!" look from The Cutie Map.

Either way, Starlight and Trixie reaffirm their friendship won't be broken by things like anger and ignorance, the Mane Six enjoy themselves while getting a reality check about songs being at the wrong place at the wrong time, and things went pretty well in this episode.

 

I think I'll give Celestial Advice a 10/10 for really making up for Celestia's treatment in To Where and Back Again, and a 9.5/10 for All Bottled Up as we got some nice banter regarding Trixie and Starlight.

Not a bad way to start off a fresh season of Friendship is Magic after what I thought of the previous season finale.

[Discordrules123 10]

I thought the season 7 premiere was okay for the most part. Some of the humor that was involved was pretty enjoying, like Twilight's visions of where she would sent Starlight to, as well as the flashback where Celestia was nervous about sending Twilight off somewhere. The downside though is that there wasn't really much to the episode's storyline, probably because most of the season premieres and finales would have the characters going on some kind of adventure. It is understandable that they would only be able to fit that kind of storyline into a two part special though. 

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,151]

@Discordrules123

Just letting you know that I merged your topic with the episode thread that already existing. A singular thread discussing your thoughts on an episodes is best either posted in the episode thread or as a blog.

Thank you.

[ImpctR 155]

Aaand back we are to MLP with the brand new Season 7 after past several months!

 

Celestial Advice

It's been 2 days after re-watching 'To Where and Back again' to make the connection with the previous season finale and so far, the continue is good! For the first time not a 2-parter with the start of the season. This is also why the episode felt less important (or it would have been had there been other plans about Starlight), and as such, not much to say about. It was a nice episode the goes on from where the previous one left, I would say 'okay episode'.

For a starter, the animations, effects and overall expression seem to me better and better, having them best done with this new season. I like how nopony was there just to be filler for the audience but had some relevance to being at the celebration.

Spoiler

Good to see Discord funny from time to time. The episode presented interesting interactions when SG was seen with the changelings or the dragons, they should have added the yaks instead of the changelings maybe or instead of the dragons. But hey a chance to see Princess Ember again. We saw some of the past about Celestia, her choice and how Twilight came to Ponyville. Now Celestia finally was more interactive than just a decoration unlike the previous 1-2 seasons.  - Celestia was so acting like a royal person when  she said 'Please go on' the next moment laughing, was that trollestia or molestia reference   Inb4 someone says out of character.

I thought SG would be sent somewhere, it felt like big worries in the end for nothing culminating. So okay.

I'll comment another day on the second episode.

Edited April 16, 2017 by ImpctR

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

Loved the Celestial Advice episode. It had me hooked from start to finish. It's like every minute brought something to the table and got you curious for what's coming up next. It was fun to watch!

Those moments where princess Celestia shared her thoughts and feelings when she sent Twilight away... Let's just say it makes me glad I hadn't turned my back on the show. Humanizing princess Celestia in this manner has been WAY overdue! This moment, to me, was the high point.

---

As for All Bottled Up, the good of the episodes just barely balanced out the bad. This is looking like one of those episodes that will age terribly down the road.

Trixie always came across as insufferable but this just sets a new low for her. I can understand being insensitive to people to whom she shares no connection but to be such a thorn to the only pony who was willing to approach her? No, Trixie, just no...

[pnylvr 185]

Celestial Advice: Excellent all the way through. I particularly liked the parts where Celestia and Twilight were talking. My only complaint is that the "Starlight's so great! Woo woo woo!" stuff was laid on too thickly.

All Bottled Up: Great episode, particularly towards the end. I have a hard time seeing Trixie and Starlight as strictly platonic after that conversation ( though (hat could just be because I don't understand female friendship).

[ponylaces 1,869]

I am one of those people who believes Starlight's development has been a bit rushed so far (seriously, how the hell is she already graduating), but there was something so refreshing about Celestial Advice to me. 

I wasn't expecting it to be this great to be honest. I was expecting just another underwhelming premiere like last season's, kind of lackluster and not as interesting or entertaining. This really exceeded my expectations. I like the idea of it being only a one parter, especially since it was just a slice of life episode. At the same time, I feel like this episode was really needed. There was little to no attention for Twilight's perspective on mentoring Starlight in season 6 which disappointed me, since it has so much potential for developing Twilight. Seeing an entire episode dedicated to it is so great. It had some nice lighthearted humor, sympathetic characters (aside from Discord..), and some much needed backstory/serious moments. Basically everything that I love from the show. So yeah, I'm personally really excited to see where Starlight goes next with her friendship studies and overall I'm just hyped up for what this season has to offer. 

And uh.. the second episode was fun. 🤷🤷 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TL;DR - Celestial Advice is gooooooood

Edited April 17, 2017 by PonyLaces

[Venomous 18,813]

I did not enjoy this season's two opener episodes. I felt that the two would have posed better aired as usual episodes as opposed to our premeire... I realize that we can't have an insane fight between our protagonists and a villian for every season opener but I felt that this one was especially lacking. These are two episodes that I will likely not return to watch a second time. 

[Music Chart Fan 818]

10 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Well... except for the part where she didn't graduate after all. 

Twilight still refers to Starlight as having graduated at the end of "All Bottled Up":

Quote

Starlight Glimmer: Let's just say I learned a friendship lesson while you were gone.
Twilight Sparkle: You've barely graduated, and you're already taking initiative! [tearing up] Oh... So proud...

 

[Jeric 46,834]

@PonyLaces glad to see your perspective! 

What makes Celestial Advice work is that it felt driven by character interactions instead of the plot taking the characters for a ride. It boiled down to the characters sitting around and talking it out. It was important for relationship development and to fill a few missing opportunities as you point out, but the subdued way of approaching it made me think of live action shows that follow up a huge event with a self-respecting episode. 

Not sure if you are a Trek: TNG fan, but they followed up their biggest episode at the time (The Best of Both Worlds) with  an episode focused on answering the question "What did that event do to me or mean for me? Where do I go next?" Characters addressing their changing perspective and looking for new perspective. 

There is a maturity in that type of episode that I did not expect from FiM. 

[Truffles 2,033]

17 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

(Heh, Sparkle...  I love when Spike called her that, and I loved her reaction to it.  It was just....cute.)

It made me think of them as crime fighting duo like you see on police dramas, though more apt in this case would instead be "partners in crime".

I guess we can add that to the lengthy list of possible ways to describe their relationship with one another. (I would say the first instance of this pairing was of him and Pinkie getting drafted to help steal the time travel spell in "It's About Time," but he didn't seem all that enthused about helping her as he was here.)

[Truffles 2,033]

11 hours ago, JH24 said:

Wow, I'm slow. I only now realized that in "Bottled Up" Spike was washing all the cups Trixie had made earlier. Poor guy.

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I felt bad for him too because it's a reminder that for the longest time he needed to do more with his life than just be Twilight's cook, cleaning service and secretary. On the other hand, no one asked him to do any of this and we've seen from his interaction with Zephyr he actually enjoys doing housework, or at the very least takes so much pride in helping out and keeping things neat and in order that it's an overall positive experience for him rather than a form of torture.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Truffles
additional thought

[mccuish1525 55]

I honestly found the 2 episodes kinda boring.

[Thrond 3,257]

42 minutes ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Twilight still refers to Starlight as having graduated at the end of "All Bottled Up":

 

Oh... yeah. 

Huh. 

[Baykush 328]

I'm going to be extremely nitpicky here  but why the hell does Pinkie say she's not good at riddle-solving? She solved the whole Scavenger Hunt in The One Where Pinkie Pie knows way faster than everyone and has proven to be smarter than the rest of the mane 5 sans Twilight in that kind of stuff. These writers also wrote Legend Of Everfree and I also nitpicked how they portrayed Pinkie there, I hope they'll know better if they write a Pinkie Pie episode.

I wanted to say that in my thoughts of the episode but I skipped it since it doesn't affect my opinion of it  I'm still not sure what to make of it.

 

12 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Oh... yeah. 

Huh. 

She did graduate, and then went back to being Twilight's student. The point is she's still Twilight's student.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Baykush

[Thrond 3,257]

5 minutes ago, Baykush said:

She did graduate, and then went back to being Twilight's student. The point is she's still Twilight's student.

1

And yet, Twilight does still say that Starlight has "...just graduated," so it seems to be a "thing," even though both episodes make a pretty big deal out of Starlight not being ready yet. I don't really know what I'm supposed to make of that. 

[Fhaolan 4,468]

8 minutes ago, Baykush said:

 

I'm going to be extremely nitpicky here  but why the hell does Pinkie say she's not good at riddle-solving? She solved the whole Scavenger Hunt in The One Where Pinkie Pie knows way faster than everyone and has proven to be smarter than the rest of the mane 5 sans Twilight in that kind of stuff.

 

Personally I take that to be a 'I say these things in order to make others feel better about themselves' kind of thing. Yeah, Pinkie could probably deal with the whole puzzle by herself, but that's not the way I think she thinks. She probably thinks being a cheerleader and encouraging others to be better is more productive. She knows what the point of the exercise is, and it's not to solve the puzzle. It's improving their team dynamics by having everyone find a way to be useful in some way *while* solving the puzzle.

[Baykush 328]

2 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

And yet, Twilight does still say that Starlight has "...just graduated," so it seems to be a "thing," even though both episodes make a pretty big deal out of Starlight not being ready yet. I don't really know what I'm supposed to make of that. 

Well, I do believe it's a thing because Twilight herself thought she was ready. Maybe it was just left as a metaphorical graduation because she has advanced so much, like it's the next level of her studies.

[Thrond 3,257]

Just now, Baykush said:

Well, I do believe it's a thing because Twilight herself thought she was ready. Maybe it was just left as a metaphorical graduation because she has advanced so much, like it's the next level of her studies.

1

And I'm not convinced she's quite ready for that yet. I was convinced after the season 6 finale, but now she's back to solving problems in ways which could easily become dangerous, which feels far more like incremental progress than the show would have me believe. In particular, Twilight praising Starlight's "initiative" seems very unhealthy - what's Starlight gonna take from that? That she should just hide her screw ups? It worked for her this time! 

[Dzastur 1,719]

Just re-watched Celestial Advice. I think it featured some of the best writing of the last few seasons. There's some really clever stuff I missed the first time.

[Baykush 328]

4 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

And I'm not convinced she's quite ready for that yet. I was convinced after the season 6 finale, but now she's back to solving problems in ways which could easily become dangerous, which feels far more like incremental progress than the show would have me believe. In particular, Twilight praising Starlight's "initiative" seems very unhealthy - what's Starlight gonna take from that? That she should just hide her screw ups? It worked for her this time! 

Well, yeah, in that I have to agree. To be fair at least she wasn't doing it for her benefit but for her friend's, so I guess that's better, but she still needs Twilight's guidance and I'm glad Starlight herself realized that. We'll have to see what they do about it in future episodes, there's also the possibility that it was a meaningless line.

[Thrond 3,257]

5 minutes ago, Baykush said:

there's also the possibility that it was a meaningless line.

 

I felt like the episode didn't really think through the implications of what it was doing with Twilight, and that troubles me a little. 

[Regent 77]

I didn't like Discord for a change. Huh. I guess his shtick is wearing thin. I mean, I understand why he does it. It's all the chaos he can cause without going too far and getting turned to stone again. (his cheese idea might have resulted in that though). It would be nice to see more character development here. Give him a girlfriend. Look for Q's only episode in DS9 Season 1 for an idea of how that might work.

I also didn't like Trixie. She was my favorite character at one point. She was a ditsy brat the whole time. Even her apology came off as disingenuous.

On the plus-side, Spike was on his A-game and not cringe-worthy for a change. He's really matured if you compare this to the earlier episodes. Actually, every recent episode I think that. He might be my favorite character if they keep this up.

And the biggest plus, Starlight wasn't a complete a-hole! Wow.

It was also nice to see more of Celestia. I imagine writing her can be difficult, since a lot could be assumed about her character, but you want her to actually be likable without being perfect. (In hindsight, judging by what we've seen of her, she's anything but.)

[Jeric 46,834]

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

And I'm not convinced she's quite ready for that yet. I was convinced after the season 6 finale, but now she's back to solving problems in ways which could easily become dangerous, which feels far more like incremental progress than the show would have me believe. In particular, Twilight praising Starlight's "initiative" seems very unhealthy - what's Starlight gonna take from that? That she should just hide her screw ups? It worked for her this time! 

I agree that what she did was unhealthy, but not at the point that one can say that it is unthinkable someone would do what she did. Ultimately she is guilty of repressing her anger and not communicating. Far removed from purposely fiddling with ponies free will. 

Celestial Advice also did something interesting. It compared Starlight's graduation and possible departure with Twilight's assignment to Ponyville. Im fact, it went out of its way to reinforce this point. Prior to Celestial Advice, I hadn't considered the flexibility of Twilight's own path and how there weren't neat dividing lines. 

A case can be made that Starlight may actually be undergoing an exponential growth that exceeds Twilight's own growth. After all, Twilight did have Lesson Zero after Celestia decided Twilight reached a point that she needed to go elsewhere, and I consider that on par with what Starlight did last season to her friends. 

Now we're are at a point were she learned to communicate her disatisfaction. Normally we are presented with the character unaware of their own flaw in the episode until they learn a lesson. That isn't the case here. Starlight made it clear that she had created outlets for her anger.  We learned that she is possessed of a rare gift ... awareness of her own flaws. She is guilty of trying a wrong technique to address it. 

What I'm saying is, there is nothing in that episode that suggested she isn't learning or even ready to go mostly solo. What I did see is initiative that I rarely see among mature adults in the real world. 

If Rarity wasn't already my locked in favorite, Starlight would have taken the crown with this episode. 

[JH24 385]

9 hours ago, Truffles said:

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I felt bad for him too because it's a reminder that for the longest time he needed to do more with his life than just be Twilight's cook, cleaning service and secretary. On the other hand, no one asked him to do any of this and we've seen from his interaction with Zephyr he actually enjoys doing housework, or at the very least takes so much pride in helping out and keeping things neat and in order that it's an overall positive experience for him rather than a form of torture.

You're right. Spike does take pride in his work and I also think he enjoys doing this. My reaction was more about that Spike is so loyal that as soon as he saw the cups he took it up himself to clean them, while he had actually planned to read his comics. But yeah, I do believe as well it's overall a positive experience for him, and he did want to get away from Trixie and Starlight for a little while.

---

After re-watching the episodes I have to say I feel more positive about them. I loved the way Celestia, Twilight, Starlight and Discord were portrayed. (Trixie was a bit over the top but I still enjoyed her character) And I really loved how they showed Spike. He seems to work so well as a supporting character that interestingly enough it's him who steals the spotlight. Really like the dynamic and relations between him and Twilight. 

I like how Spike is more mature, acts as a voice of reason and is still his sarcastic self at times. He seems so much more confident than he was in the earlier seasons.