Are ponies the real villains of MLP?

[heavens-champion 1,893]

18 hours ago, A.V. said:

 

Instead:

 

Twilight & Cadance: "Hey, instead of just destroying us here and now to be safe, why not do it via unnecessarily convoluted method in this suspiciously specific area?"

 

Rabia: "Why, that sounds... epically evil and not at all a trap, even though I'm supposed to be the grand puppetmaster over everything Crystal Empire-related since day 1 -- you've got a deal!"

 

Sombra:

"And this b***h is supposed to have been cunning enough to string even me, the no-nonsense trapmaster from the show, along for 1,000+ years?! That's it -- I'm reforming and getting as far away as possible from this dunce!"

 

 

Should've just been the Changelings.

 

They're all Hope needed, and Chrysalis was the only relevant secondary villain.

It's like Whitley was half-interested in writing that story arc.

Actually, all that's missing here is one of the characters asking "who wrote this junk? It's like they weren't even paying attention."

Edited June 26, 2017 by heavens-champion

[heavens-champion 1,893]

6 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

In a sense, yes.  I've been overanalyzing the show and its spinoff media, and I do think there's evidence that ponies are oppressing other species, and no I'm not talking about banishing legit threats to the realm as there is a strong case that the princesses were justified there.  I'm talking about how dragons have to be mindful of where they're located in relation to ponies.  How pony towns seem to be pristine and well taken care of but Griffonstone, which must be within Equestria's borders to be featured on the Cutie Map, is a literal ghetto.  I also noticed that griffons often represent various pony towns as athletes in the Equestria Games.

The Good, the Bad and the Ponies is a terrible two-parter in the comics IMHO, but I have to wonder if Longhorn isn't just trying to get ahold of the town so ponies and cattles can live together in harmony.  If there are cows who don't typically enter Ponyville and presumably live in a large barn just outside of town, are they the source of milk for the town?  If so, do other towns have a similar arrangement?  Where does that leave bulls?  They would only be good for knocking up cows and not many are needed for that, nor would they be needed more than just periodically.  So, are bulls just left to wander and figure out their own way to survive?  If so then maybe they don't ride through towns demanding produce to create chaos, but because they can't integrate into any pony society and get a job in order to put food on the table in a more socially acceptable manner.

Yes, ponies generally come across as kindhearted and sympathetic, but there may be a dark secret the audience isn't let in on.  Has anyone ever considered that various stories in the FiM universe are presented through the lens of ponies or someone like Spike who's sympathetic to them?  I don't actually think most ponies have malice in their hearts.  They're probably just willfully ignorant like a lot of humans are (I'm resisting the urge to make a reference to supporters of a certain country's leader).  Out of sight, out of mind.  

The princesses probably have a lot of dirt we don't know about, but average ponies probably just go about their lives, possibly knowing deep down that things aren't always as they seem, especially when it comes to relations to other races or other nations.  As long as they can go about their lives knowing the princesses are looking out for ponykind, they're content.  Heck, most ponies probably don't even interact with other races on a regular basis.  I don't see a lot of species diversity in Canterlot or Manehattan, and Cloudsdale is only open to Pegasi by design.  Well...technically Griffons too, but aside from Gilda in a flashback, I don't recall seeing any Griffons around there.  

And yet, they saw no problem seeing Rainbow Dash's friends being in Cloudsdale in Sonic Rainboom. Besides, I'm pretty sure racism would be another form of hatred that would draw the Windigos to Equestria.

Edited June 26, 2017 by heavens-champion

[joshyang908 85]

It's a matter of perspectives. History is written by the winners, and life is complex (NOT black & white). Even those perceived as Gods (Celestia & Luna) are not perfect and can still make mistakes (A Royal Problem). Because of this, no one in Equestria is infallible. However, MLP is a show directed at little kids, so I think the OP is overthinking this.

On this subject, however; I hope the MLP writers do write a moral quandary episode in which there is no right answer, and the "villain" is not necessarily wrong. Both sides are equally valid which leads up to an impasse. I think the MLP writers tried this with Starlight Glimmer's equality point of view but ended up placing her as a full-on uncompromising villain until she got reformed.

[Goat-kun 2,496]

On 25. 6. 2017 at 0:14 PM, heavens-champion said:

He didn't even think to have Rabia taunt Twilight by sarcastically thanking her for making their release possible, or to have Iron Will, the Flim Flam Brothers, and Lightning Dust redeem themselves. What a waste of perfectly good plot points.

"Wasted opportunity" shall be inscribed on FIM's tombstone 

 

Those guys work best in slice-o-life episodes with low stakes, and Chrysalis should have been left for a time when you can actually have a team up of villains.

 

They should have gone all-in on the Umbrum with Dark 6 original comic Mane 6 counterparts instead of reviving Sombrero with a bunch of unremarkable characters + Chrysalis. Or at least that is how I would do it. But if our great and talented Silly Jeremy Whitley really wanted his shitty pony to hook up with Sombrero, he could have done a better job with Crystal Empire characters only. He wanted to do too many things at once and failed at them all.

 

[AlbaTross 1,581]

8 hours ago, heavens-champion said:

And yet, they saw no problem seeing Rainbow Dash's friends being in Cloudsdale in Sonic Rainboom. Besides, I'm pretty sure racism would be another form of hatred that would draw the Windigos to Equestria.

I don't think they have a problem with other ponies per se, but Cloudsdale's design also keeps out zebras, mules, donkeys, etc., which is more to my point.

[Rumpelstiltskin 45]

I don't believe them to be. The issue you mentioned with the Changelings is more that until Thorax, I doubt Equestria had encountered a changeling that wasn't openly hostile to ponies and the whole thing with their princesses being captured during the Wedding gives them justifiable reason to be suspicious.On the other hand, Queen Chrysalis has always been shown to be hostile to Equestria with no reason other than gaining power. Some may argue that she wanted to feed her subjects, but from what we saw in 'There and Back Again', she had no interest in making peace with the ponies even after they relieved the changelings of their eternal hunger. 

It's my personal theory that she knew all along that the changelings could easily end their hunger by giving the love they had to one another, but may have kept them in ignorance and starvation because they were easier to control. 

[heavens-champion 1,893]

54 minutes ago, Rumpelstiltskin said:

I don't believe them to be. The issue you mentioned with the Changelings is more that until Thorax, I doubt Equestria had encountered a changeling that wasn't openly hostile to ponies and the whole thing with their princesses being captured during the Wedding gives them justifiable reason to be suspicious.On the other hand, Queen Chrysalis has always been shown to be hostile to Equestria with no reason other than gaining power. Some may argue that she wanted to feed her subjects, but from what we saw in 'There and Back Again', she had no interest in making peace with the ponies even after they relieved the changelings of their eternal hunger. 

It's my personal theory that she knew all along that the changelings could easily end their hunger by giving the love they had to one another, but may have kept them in ignorance and starvation because they were easier to control. 

And now, she has no one to tell what to do.

[heavens-champion 1,893]

 

On 6/25/2017 at 7:49 AM, The Artist Formerly Known As A.V. said:

 

Instead:

 

Twilight & Cadance: "Hey, instead of just destroying us here and now to be safe, why not do it via unnecessarily convoluted method in this suspiciously specific area?"

 

Rabia: "Why, that sounds... epically evil and not at all a trap, even though I'm supposed to be the grand puppetmaster over everything Crystal Empire-related since day 1 -- you've got a deal!"

 

Sombra:

"And this b***h is supposed to have been cunning enough to string even me, the no-nonsense trapmaster from the show, along for 1,000+ years?! That's it -- I'm reforming and getting as far away as possible from this dunce!"

 

 

Should've just been the Changelings.

 

They're all Hope needed, and Chrysalis was the only relevant secondary villain.

Oh, it would have been appropriately evil.

Rabia: After centuries of imprisonment, we are finally free! (grins at Twilight) And it's all thanks to you.

Twilight: (look of defiance falters as the words sink in)

Edited September 19, 2017 by heavens-champion

[heavens-champion 1,893]

On 6/26/2017 at 1:02 PM, AlbaTross said:

I don't think they have a problem with other ponies per se, but Cloudsdale's design also keeps out zebras, mules, donkeys, etc., which is more to my point.

So much overanalyzing.

[Props Valroa 25,967]

The whole thing about ponies being the true villains seems to be dark to me... but there is an alternative, Celestia being the true villain. Why should ponies have cutie marks and be forced to have one destiny? Have one job? Did Celestia force or preach that idelogy on them? Celestia cherishes the differences in ponies and such, what if she is just mental and is obsessed with that? Wanting to spread her ponies difference throughout the world no matter what, hidden behind a mask of peace and friendship...

Celestia would be the perfect villain, and Nightmare Moon would be..the hero for trying to defeat her, of course the eternal darkness would have to go away...
 

An emotional scene between Twilight and her teacher would be great, seeing Twilight would be the one to defeat Celestia, with the help of others of course, be the one to take her place, and rule with true friendship and peace, as she is the princess of friendship. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Twilight Witch

[J.J 918]

I dont want to make this overly "political" or nothing, but I think Celestia has been a little "behind" on work... id say try 1000 years... with the added responsibilities... something they made look easy in "A Royal Problem"... for a reason, should have been, she had plenty of practice lol... anyways... I think she had no time for actual diplomacy, and definitely no time for Discord in a world where she is juggling responsibility through the day and night, and still keeping the kingdom intact... I mean maybe she really had "some" foresight, I mean the mane six connecting, the sonic rainboom that dates their ironic progressions... they were meant to meet, and Celestia even references knowing of a "special group" of friends in ponyville, however, In, "Griffon the Brush Off" they imply not all of them are "so" close yet... with that interaction between Pinkie and Rainbow... but really without the ability to access or control the elements herself and run the kingdom, it was almost destined another Alicorn needed to arise, despite Lunas return or not... logic applies to what the Earth Pony and Pegasi must do to maintain natural order in Equestria, only Unicorns I think would be able to make it in a world engulfed by the night, "Hearthswarming Eve" even tells why magic alone would not suffice, and there are other small references like the EUP, and what not.. there really is no choice, it is authority because it is logic, it is absolute, rival to Celestia is rival to literal absolutes... there is no other way of ordinance, only corruption, jealousy and control leading to self destruction

[AlbaTross 1,581]

11 hours ago, heavens-champion said:

So much overanalyzing.

It makes the series come alive.   At least overanalyzing something like the political situation in Equestria makes sense.  I've done worse.  Not too long ago, I overanalyzed an outpost featured in Friends Forever #36, lol.  

[heavens-champion 1,893]

1 hour ago, AlbaTross said:

It makes the series come alive.   At least overanalyzing something like the political situation in Equestria makes sense.  I've done worse.  Not too long ago, I overanalyzed an outpost featured in Friends Forever #36, lol.  

I never did like politics.

[AlbaTross 1,581]

On 2017-09-19 at 11:31 AM, heavens-champion said:

I never did like politics.

Well, you'd fit right in up here in Canada.  I don't mind politics so much when it's about a land of magical talking horses.  Real life politics though...just make fiction look so much better by comparison, lol.  

[heavens-champion 1,893]

9 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

Well, you'd fit right in up here in Canada.  I don't mind politics so much when it's about a land of magical talking horses.  Real life politics though...just make fiction look so much better by comparison, lol.  

Yeah. At least in MLP:FIM, the leaders actually care about their subjects. Wells except for Chrysalis (it helps she looks like a corpse. Okay, I might be exaggerating Chrysalis's appearance. But come on! She is not somebody you wanna run into at night). But to stay on topic, if the ponies were the real villains, I'd want them to be frozen. And I don't want that to happen.

Edited September 21, 2017 by heavens-champion

[EpicEnergy 22,064]

The way I see it, ponies want to help their enemies by befriending them, not by brainwashing them until they fit in.

The OP brought up that you get banished if you don't fit in with pony society. I disagree that this is the case, at least in Nightmare Moon's situation. She wanted to have eternal night, which would have sent everypony into a depression, or at least a great sadness, due to a lack of sunshine. She also was Luna's evil form, in that Nightmare Moon was Luna except overcome by resentment. One could say that Celestia caused her to be that way, but one must also keep in mind that psychopaths are victims of their environment and likely have been subjected to abuse, but that does not justify their behavior. Therefore, as in Nightmare Moon's case, Celestia causing her to become resentful and want eternal night does not justify Nightmare Moon's actions and mindset. So, Celestia imprisoned her in the moon, and rightfully so for the safety of Equestrians. Also, when the mane six used the elements on her, she returned to her regular form, saving her from her own resentment. If none of what I said is convincing, then consider this - Nightmare Moon was Luna except she was not acting herself and was, in a sense, imprisoned in her own body; therefore, the mane six saved her from herself.

The OP also brought up that you get turned to stone if you don't fit in with pony society. I disagree with this as well. The reason Discord was turned to stone, twice, was because the ponies were being harmed in the sense that they weren't able to be themselves but rather puppets of Discord and that they were harassed by him. He was welcomed into pony society once he behaved himself because he didn't harass them, not because he suddenly fit in with pony society.

Another example of punishment for not fitting in with pony society that the OP mentioned was the Changelings. This, I believe, is not a proper example of getting punished for not fitting in, because the Changelings committed evil actions like imprisoning everypony and attempting to overtake their land by force, which essentially is an act of war. The reason they were accepted after they reformed was because they no longer wanted to steal everypony's love, imprison them, and overtake their land.

In the end, the ponies are not the real villains of MLP, but rather they are the protagonists. In every circumstance, or at least in most circumstances, the ponies are simply defending themselves from evil and afterwards extend an open hoof to the villain(s) to give them a chance at redeeming themselves.