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SasQ

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@SasQ

There's a big difference between working with the Astral, and becoming so attatched to it that it acts as a means of escape. I'm a Lucid dreamer, and a projective, I understand what is what here, but I still hope you aren't simply using it to fulfill petty desires. Remember the Mirror of Arased from Harry Potter? I was saying that it isn't healthy to dwell on fantasy. Now mind me you, fantasy can be amazing, helps us dream towards our ideal world, or just step back from the world for a second. I understand that, in a sense, what you've experienced is real, but I worry for those who forget their life here, on Earth. Just don't get carried away, you're currently here, so don't ignore it completely. That's all I meant

50 minutes ago, SasQ said:

Because a proof is something that makes you certain that you're not crazy or just "making things up" ;) Weren't you concerned a while ago about my mental health? Welp, that's exactly what proofs are for: their purpose is to distinguish what's "true" or "real" or "possible", from what isn't.

Also, I don't think there's such thing as "physical proof". We don't prove anything in physics. We only do observations, make notes, try to find the pattern in the data and describe it with some model in our theories, and then we do more experiments to see if they fit the theory or not. As long as they fit, we're fine. But no matter how many experiments are supporting our theory, they never ascertain it – they only increase our belief that the theory might be true. But one experiment that breaks the pattern is enough to disprove a theory. So the only thing we can be certain in physics, is that some theory is not right.

Quite the contrary in mathematics, which is a purely mental exercise (though it is still grounded in the real world and the real world seems to be operating on mathematical principles). In mathematics, it's all about proving stuff. First we make a small set of assumptions, called "axioms", which we accept inside the theory as being true (coming from the outside world), and then we use logical reasoning to see what other facts we can naturally deduce from these assumptions. And as long as there are no contradictions, we're fine.

But why can't we verify these assumptions to begin with? Well, because there's really no way of doing that :q  Logic doesn't care about its "inputs". It works this way: providing that something is believed to be true, it must follow that something else must be true as well (the thing we deduce from the axioms). So it's always only a provisional truth. The only way to find out that some assumptions were not true, is when we run into a contradiction. Because there are no contradictions in the real world – it exists, so it's true. Truth is something that happens or can happen. False is something that cannot happen no matter what, because it collides with something else. It's like a piece of a puzzle that doesn't fit anywhere, so it cannot be a part of any valid picture.

And people need proofs because proofs give them the sense of safety and comfort. When they can prove something is true, they feel safe, because they feel they "understood" something. If they can't grasp something with their mind, they usually also are unable to prove it. And vice versa: if they cannot prove it, they're reluctant to accept it as true or grasp it with their mind. (Though there are also things that has been proved to be true, but nevertheless not many people can believe it. Just look how many flat-earthers are out there these days :q or religious fanatics.)

Rigorous proofs also take out the "human factor" out of the equation. It helps resolving conflicts in debates. You can believe that something is true, but other people might not be so much willing to believe you. Proofs are the ways to convince them, because if they can follow the same path of deduction that you did and come to the same conclusion all by themselves, it's more likely they'll believe it too. They may not believe you, but they can't deny their own deduction they've done themselves, right? ;)

I was never concerned about your mental health. I just wanted to be sure you weren't overdoing it. I do the same stuff you're describing as a means of meditation. I guess what I'm confused about is why you're using it for My Little Pony when you can literally do anything? Explain "why" to me, please

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10 hours ago, CrystalBloodMoon said:

I guess what I'm confused about is why you're using it for My Little Pony when you can literally do anything? Explain "why" to me, please

Because why not? ;) Is there anything wrong about it? :q

And I'm not using it just for MLP stuff. I use lucid dreaming for all sorts of things. Usually for doing stuff that can't be possible to do in physical world due to its limitations (e.g. laws of physics, lack of materials, money or other resources etc.). Or to simply get some additional time for my life at night instead if mindlessly getting involved into wacky dreams. Or for investigating how perception of reality works. But if you have any other suggestions of what could I do in my conscious dreams, then go on, I'm listening ;)

10 hours ago, CrystalBloodMoon said:

I was never concerned about your mental health. I just wanted to be sure you weren't overdoing it.

As much as I can understand that, I'm kinda wondering why do you care at all? It isn't much of your business what do I do with my mind, is it? If I got crazy one day, I don't think it's gonna affect your world in any way. (But as I said, there's no need to worry about that ;) ) I find it kinda weird, it's like I found an interesting book and started to read it, and you came and started lecturing me about the dangers of reading too much, as if it were some sort of a dangerous drug :confused:It's just dreams. The fact that I know that I'm dreaming doesn't make much of a difference, I dream every night regardless, so it won't hurt if I use those dreams to make something useful, right?

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13 hours ago, SasQ said:

Because why not? ;) Is there anything wrong about it? :q

And I'm not using it just for MLP stuff. I use lucid dreaming for all sorts of things. Usually for doing stuff that can't be possible to do in physical world due to its limitations (e.g. laws of physics, lack of materials, money or other resources etc.). Or to simply get some additional time for my life at night instead if mindlessly getting involved into wacky dreams. Or for investigating how perception of reality works. But if you have any other suggestions of what could I do in my conscious dreams, then go on, I'm listening ;)

No that's pretty much what I use it for. Investigating reality and ideas and such, or other.

13 hours ago, SasQ said:

As much as I can understand that, I'm kinda wondering why do you care at all? It isn't much of your business what do I do with my mind, is it? If I got crazy one day, I don't think it's gonna affect your world in any way. (But as I said, there's no need to worry about that ;) ) I find it kinda weird, it's like I found an interesting book and started to read it, and you came and started lecturing me about the dangers of reading too much, as if it were some sort of a dangerous drug :confused:It's just dreams. The fact that I know that I'm dreaming doesn't make much of a difference, I dream every night regardless, so it won't hurt if I use those dreams to make something useful, right?

I'm not saying it's dangerous. I always worry about other people, that's just me. Your logic makes sense, I couldn't seem to put reason to it. To me it seemed like too much dedication towards physical enjoyment. I don't know, I guess some people are into that, I guess I was viewing that as an unhealthy relationship with fictional characters, but now that you've cleared things up, I guess I don't have a problem with it

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  • 5 months later...

want to make your portal to equestria fear no more just click on this link: http://www.real-wishes.com good hopes everyone :-)

I need more people to be with me to make this portal real so press at this link: <a href="http://www.real-wishes.com" title="make a real wish" name="make a real wish"><img src="http://www.real-wishes.com/images/wish-3.jpg" alt="make a real wish" title="make a real wish" /><br>make a real wish</a>

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16 minutes ago, Tokemon said:

want to make your portal to equestria fear no more just click on this link: http://www.real-wishes.com good hopes everyone :-)

I'm not sure about that. There's a bit too much of mysticism, a crazyness about number 8 and those comments are a bit artificial to me. Why only 8888 wishes? Why not infinitive? Why 8 has a such meaning? I think it'll be better just to find the way yourself and not make any cults of things (number 8 or that mentioned site) that you are not convinced or confessed in 100% to do so.

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Whoa... Ponyception. Alright I woke up, logged in and saw this thread which I had never seen before and suddenly felt like I was in the Matrix movie. It's going to take a while for me to sift through all of this, but it's definitely interesting and I wondered if anybody had been dabbling in any kind of metaphysical, magickal, mind-altered states or whatever experiments involving Ponies. I'll have to post my own experience when I have enough time to write it down. Suffice is to say though, that the aftermath had me feeling like I was soaking in a constant stream of energy that lasted for over a month, and it was the most incredible feeling ever. I actually had to consciously throttle it back because it was so intense. I don't want to form a conclusion about what was happening, but one time, many years ago, I did an experiment using a modern fictional character instead of an old deity, (even back before Taylor Ellwood wrote that infamous "Invoking Buffy" article that made more than a few waves and gave some credence to ideas as crazy as this) and the results were stellar. With the popularity of MLP though, and the amount of energy I was feeling, I've actually been a bit afraid of trying something similar with Ponies.

Dream control though... definitely NOT my talent. I could spend 18 hours focused on a desired topic and then dream about being at work. And the rare times I realize I'm dreaming, I can't stay asleep at that point.

@SasQhasnt been here in a while though and @Altastrofae got sent to the moon, so I don't even know if I'm actually talking to anyone here. :P

@Jeric Definitely wouldn't work for me because I ALWAYS wake up within a minute of realizing I'm dreaming, so training myself to perform reality checks would just result in me never getting any sleep at all :mlp_confused:

Edited by bornAgainEquestrian
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I'm still here on the forums, but mostly as a non-meddling observer, because this forum is not the best place to talk freely. Too much "political correctness", and I have a beef with a few moderators here as well, mostly because I'm not really a fan of authorities and a free thinker :q  There's also some issues with copyright and ownership of stuff posted on these forums, so there are certain things I simply cannot post here or talk about. But you can still talk with me outside of the forums about such things ;) (Just make sure to avoid Google Mail or similar corporate-owned channels – I don't reply there because of privacy issues.)

As for the feeling you described: I know the feeling all right ;) That's the "awoken state" in which you perceive reality as it is, instead of "sleeping with eyes open". This state is related to dream control and lucid dreaming, as well as meditation & other stuff related to consciousness, and it definitely helps in achieving these states, or think faster. And at a certain degree of development, it even allows to alter reality around you (well, in a slight amount when it comes to me, but still better than none :q ), when you realize that reality is just a dream as well, a dream about the physical world. (Have you ever read any of Carlos Castaneda's books? Or the Tibetan "Dream Yoga"?)

As for the talent for dream control: I don't think there's such a thing as TALENT at all. There might be initial predispositions, but this is like an early start in a race – it doesn't mean that if you started later, you can't catch up with the early mofo ;J you just have to try harder and put some more effort, and you can not only catch up with him, but even surpass him ;) When people see someone is good at something, but they don't see how he achieved that level, they think it's some sort of "magic" and they say that ihe's got a "talent" for that. Most of the time to have an excuse for themselves not being that good, and not trying :P But if they tried, they could see for themselves that it's nothing about "talents" – it's about LEARNING. Everyone can learn anything, provided it's something you really WANT to learn, and put enough EFFORT into it, and that you're learning it THE RIGHT WAY (because oftentimes people put a lot of effort, but they're doing it wrong, and they give up because they don't achieve their goal, so they think that it doesn't work, or that they "don't have talent for that" :q ).

I didn't know how to play piano, I haven't born with it. I learned it. And now I can play piano quite well, with both hands. Not like a pro, but well enough to play some favourite songs from MLP or movies I like :)  The same story with drawing: I couldn't draw in the past. My drawings were terrible :P But I exercised, observed how other people do it, and I learned it, and now I can draw pretty well. The more effort and fantasy I put into it, the better the end result looks. (It's all about good proportions, realistic shading, and details.) When I was a student in college, I was terrible at math, because I couldn't understand it at the slightest :P And it was even worse when I was studying at university.  But after finishing my education career, I started learning maths and physics on my own, because I needed it for game programming and simulations, or to understand how stuff works. And guess what: now I'm good at math and I understand it very well. To the point that people who see me solving math problems they struggled with, they think that I'm some sort of a wizard or something :q because they have no idea how I do it. And yet, there's no magic in it, no "talent", just a deep understanding of how it works, and knowing the geometry hiding behind formulas.  It allows me to do things that many people (including educated mathematicians!) consider as impossible, until I explain the trick to them and show them how they can do it themselves.

And it's the same thing with conscious dreaming or dream control. It's not a talent, it's a skill, something that you can learn. I was waking up early from my dreams too, as soon as I realized that I'm in a dream and got too emotional about it. But this, again, is something that you can practise and get better in it. There are also some techniques that you can use to anchor yourself inside a dream: make sure to avoid closing your eyes or limiting your inputs in any way. Do the opposite: maximize your input by using as many senses as you can in the dream. Touch stuff, scratch your hand against the walls or the rug. Scream aloud. Start jumping. Looking around and naming things you see (the "I spy..." game ;) ). This definitely helps.

Edited by SasQ
Added techniques of anchoring inside a dream
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On 9/29/2018 at 9:33 AM, SasQ said:

As for the feeling you described: I know the feeling all right ;) That's the "awoken state" in which you perceive reality as it is, instead of "sleeping with eyes open". This state is related to dream control and lucid dreaming, as well as meditation & other stuff related to consciousness, and it definitely helps in achieving these states, or think faster. And at a certain degree of development, it even allows to alter reality around you (well, in a slight amount when it comes to me, but still better than none :q ), when you realize that reality is just a dream as well, a dream about the physical world. (Have you ever read any of Carlos Castaneda's books? Or the Tibetan "Dream Yoga"?)

I didn't know how to play piano, I haven't born with it. I learned it. And now I can play piano quite well, with both hands. Not like a pro, but well enough to play some favourite songs from MLP or movies I like :)  The same story with drawing: I couldn't draw in the past. My drawings were terrible :P But I exercised, observed how other people do it, and I learned it, and now I can draw pretty well. The more effort and fantasy I put into it, the better the end result looks. (It's all about good proportions, realistic shading, and details.) When I was a student in college, I was terrible at math, because I couldn't understand it at the slightest :P And it was even worse when I was studying at university. 

Not in particular but most of my spiritual journey through life has definitely been motivated by such thoughts. I was one of those weird people who had a pretty good idea of was going on in The Matrix within the first five minutes while everyone else was still scratching their heads (didn't know robots were involved or why, but the rest already made sense). In post-HS I read some Dr. Robert Monroe, and even a bit of Edgar Cayce. That eventually led into the occult which I still explore from time to time. I would have gotten more involved again by now, especially after some of the weirdness I've gone through recently, but just don't have the time or resources to spend a lot of time on since investigating health issues and staggered work hours.

But... yeah, I once suffered from sleep deprivation for an entire month from dealing with that. It was as if I somehow lost the ability to fall asleep. Most of the time I was just laying there with my eyes closed for 8+ hours just trying to get some rest. And of the few times I was able to drift off, would somehow become consciously aware I was falling asleep in that instant, and I'd just snap awake again almost in a panic attack. It wasn't an awareness I could control because at the moment the realization happened, I was no longer conscious. The time between realizing and waking up is near instantaneous, giving me no time to even try to gain control of it. I actually tried starting to do that in a desperate attempt to stay asleep so I could finally get proper rest, but that seemed to make the problem even worse. Sleep meds didn't work. Alcohol didn't work. Neither did meditation or music. Watching TV (which can usually mellow me and knock me out when I'm tried) didn't work. So comparing it to other "tries" is somewhat unfair. The most that goes wrong when you "try" to learn piano, drawing, or math is a bruised ego and time spent. You don't have to worry about potentially losing hundreds of hours of sleep (which is quite life-threatening) when you have a job to do everyday and have to start worrying about having hallucinations, seizures, and heart attacks because the body finally decides it's had enough of this "no sleep" nonsense. This sets a ridiculously high learning curve. "You figure it out quick or risk killing yourself." Also, I think if learning this were as easy as most other skills you can attain, a lot more people would be doing it, and the video game empire which is rapidly shifting to VR, probably wouldn't even be able to sustain itself.

I really wish this weren't the case, but on the other hand, it may have given me an even more remarkable view of the universe. I could watch nothing but a certain IP all day, RP in it, and play a couple of video games, and all I'd dream about was something ridiculous like putting price labels on boxes. The few times I've had an amazing experience in sleep, then I know it's a big deal and not just me willing things into happening. Those rare dream events have been life-changing, in a couple cases even to the point where it's like my firmware was getting an upgrade. In many ways I feel like a completely different person since the last event, like an Ebeneezer Scrooge the morning after he met the three ghosts; and that's a kind of thing I never thought could actually happen in life.

Edited by bornAgainEquestrian
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I wish I had learned about lucid dreaming back when I was in the hospital for an extended period of time. Lots of wasted sleep. Alas there's no time like the present. 

So when you say you summon people, is that a mental manifestation you create while going to bed but prior to sleeping? Or is it more of a fully conscience meditation? Does it function kinda like discord when he makes multiple copies of himself to bounce ideas off of? @SasQ

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So I experimented last night. I was able to get the mental manifestation of discord (I tried twilight like you had but it never worked.) It was weird but fun at the same time. I was able to have conversation and I know it was all my imagination but I know the charactor well enough I could have 2 way conversing. I can see why you had to make the rule with your twilight manifest that she could never take control. Maybe I don't know what I'm dealing with allowing the Lord of chaos into my mind. It was as if once I brought him into my mind it was hard to stop. Is this how people go schizophrenic...

Still unable to take control or awareness while dreaming. 

The quest continues...

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  • 3 months later...
  • 1 year later...
  • 4 months later...
On 8/2/2020 at 4:42 PM, Splashee said:

Let me through!

Also how do I get back again?

Simply conjure up a portal. but remember the tale of the sorceror's apprentice, be careful when messing around with stuff you don't know about (I say be careful instead of don't because messing around with it is how people probably figured this stuff out.). 

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On 10/2/2018 at 7:13 PM, Sunlight Glisten said:

So I experimented last night. I was able to get the mental manifestation of discord (I tried twilight like you had but it never worked.) It was weird but fun at the same time. I was able to have conversation and I know it was all my imagination but I know the charactor well enough I could have 2 way conversing. I can see why you had to make the rule with your twilight manifest that she could never take control. Maybe I don't know what I'm dealing with allowing the Lord of chaos into my mind. It was as if once I brought him into my mind it was hard to stop. Is this how people go schizophrenic...

Still unable to take control or awareness while dreaming. 

The quest continues...

I actually tried with Twilight and it actually worked to some degree. At first it was a bit jolty like my mind was parroting (look that up on a tulpa forum) but then I felt the same head pressure I did when I tulpa forced and it started to feel like I was mentally talking to someone, who percieved me as the changeling shaped manifestation I sent (changeling as it allows me to not have to worry about a specific form). I had the feeling of modifying what mental astral shape I was sending out, not through seeing it, but feeling it shift and morph and phantom feelings of wings and such. I can tell you that I was able to move through visualising an image of what I was sending as an avatar on the edge of my vision It was blinky but mentally saying it was my astral, dream realm body helped me do it. No visuals above that though. Twilight seemed to be willing to help me pull off a experiment similar to the one that started this thread, but I had to explain why my mental archive has a slightly larger section of paranormal info and folklore than nonfiction, 'I really prefer to read fantasy and paranormal stuff when i'm bored' Though my mom is a bit concerned about me delving into darker stuff like demonology, There is a line I draw and demons are it. 

 

And to the people that think this is a hoax, it's not. I've actually had some experience reading about hoaxes, but hoaxes are only a percentage of the cases. I've also done a study of illusionology (stage illusions) and despite magicians being skeptics a lot of the time, (occupational hazard of faking magical powers) I am animistic and have faith in the power of just about any god under the sun (yes I believe Ra and Celestia are equally as real as each other). There is a reason native australians say creation happened in The Dreamtime in their myths after all.

Edited by Arvax
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20 hours ago, TomDaBombMLP said:

Just close your eyes and dream... :wub:

That's the spirit! That actually is how I did it myself. I don't see my dream surroundings, but my mind is oddly able to give me a blinky feed in the corner of my vision while i am still semi awake.

Edited by Arvax
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