S07:E08 - Hard to Say Anything

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

@ImpctR It's kinda weird that you call people that criticize this episode over-sensitive, while you also seem to show a lack of respect for those people, that just want to share their opinions here.

I am not saying that you are not allowed to not like this episode. But instead of acting disrespectful to others and even act like that this is some sort of a PC thing, maybe you can be more respectful and talk normally with the people that have a different viewpoint. I am sure they're very open to discuss these things with you.

[Thrond 3,257]

3 hours ago, ImpctR said:

Why overreact on a thing that has been done over and over in other cartoons?

"It's been done before" =/= "it's okay." Consent matters.

Furthermore, the crux of the gag is that leaning in to kiss Sugar Belle while she's sleeping is inappropriate and doesn't make Big Mac look any better to her, so it's not unreasonable to view it as a sort of sexual assault. And I don't see what's funny about a gag which sort of just amounts to Big Mac acting poorly. 

I don't recall seeing the cartoons you're referring to, but I presume those have a sillier tone where we're not supposed to sympathize with the characters as much. We only focus on Big Mac, and we're supposed to root for him to get the girl even when he does things which, based on evidence in the episode, she's clearly repulsed by, and which he ought to have known she'd be repulsed by. And because we're supposed to root for him, we can't even laugh at his expense like we would someone we were supposed to dislike. 

3 hours ago, ImpctR said:

For that logic, we should ban Bon-Bon and Lyra because look they promote the younger audience to deviate from being straight.

 

What on earth are you talking about? Bon Bon and Lyra are never stated to be in a relationship, and there would be absolutely nothing wrong with it if they were. The relationship fans like to imagine they're in is based on mutual respect, whereas the kiss in "Hard to Say Anything" is done without Sugar Belle even knowing, let alone consenting. There's a huge difference. And the show doesn't even have the freedom to actually make them a couple, so I don't see how they're promoting "deviance," which isn't even a bad thing in the first place. 

3 hours ago, ImpctR said:

You may look at them, they will think you are sexually harassing them, you will say black even if not referring to them, they will call you racist, uh stay away.

 

These are strawmen. I've been called an "SJW" online before, but I'm not going to call you racist for saying "black," and I'm not gonna accuse someone who's looking at me non-sexually of sexual harassment. I'm not gonna presume anything about you in real life, but if someone is calling you racist or a harasser for doing something you think is innocuous, maybe there's a reason for that. 

 

[ImpctR 155]

@Batbrony et al, don't know why you felt criticized or verbally attacked individually that you felt you had to explain in details, or felt being disrespected. I did quote you even less than Dark Quiviut and I know Batbrony is mostly positive. I just don't think throwing such a serious accusation and a word like 'assault' is appropriate here, it is wrong. Yes, I get that it didn't work well, the scene wasn't the most appropriate as it happens a lot with season 7 episodes having new writers. But in the end, it is about trying to be romantic even if it was not done in a good way, I would call assault a rape attempt not a kiss. Yes you don't kiss people you don't know but if it happened and kissed someone on the street even as a joke would you be sued? I've seen in those hidden camera pranks that ones existed people would get kissed, so should they all start crying 'assault assault, he harassed me!'. I disagree with it. And that's why I'm saying I wouldn't feel comfortable with people who wouldn't be chill and make such conclusions. And this wasn't even kissing a stranger this was like a kiss with someone you know. Maybe doing it in Sugar's sleep made it look that bad, perhaps she had to be awaken but the kiss attempt itself is nothing to be disgusted about, they met each other enough,

Edited July 3, 2017 by ImpctR

[Pastel 7,627]

I liked everything, except the singing part, which was very cringey... Feather Bangs got annoying very quickly too.

Great ending though!

[Diamond Dynamite??? 71]

This episode was pretty... Meh. Like, I mean where did the ship even come from?

[n1029 224]

For me, the CMCs being their adorable selves went a long way toward making this episode click. I'll just leave it at that since I'm pretty sure no one on the negative side has any interest in budging.

[SkyPie 259]

I feel sorry for Marble Pie. Big Mac actually seems like he would want to get with her as much as she would but he did a 180 and went for Sugar Belle. I know they're related, but it's very far off. I wonder if this is the first time the Apple Family would add a unicorn into the mix (if they did have foals). It seems like they only consist of Earth Ponies.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Pink Feather

[Larrydog 320]

Now I'm gonna have my own bias aside for my feelings for this episode....why was it needed? I mean I don't understand the point of ship teasing Big Mac twice and have him end up with someone else in an extremely random and forced way? that's just kinda how the entire episode felt to me and I don't even like Cheerimac or marblemac (I find all three forced the first one was literally forced in the episode and the second one was just something put at the last second of the episode) but I find them a little bit better then sugermac (with marblemac being the "best" of the three to me)

through I did get one thing out of this episode which is my love for feathermac but that's just me

[Divine plywood 1,232]

Yeah, not gonna lie, I really didn't care much for this episode.

I was  shipping Big Mac with Cheerilee alongside with most of the fans and this new romance feeled little forced. Both Big Mac and Cheerilee have been introduced well in the past and they obviously have history together, were it romantic or just normal friendship. Both being also important side characters and constantly seen in the show, it would have been rational to ship them, rather than intoduce this poorly executed new love story during one short episode.

Even though I'm mighty disappointed this outcome, I wish that Sugar Belle will have more screentime in the future.

[Guest]

I preety much liked the episode.

[Nye 1,652]

It’s always great to hear Big Mac say something other than E’yup or Nope.

[Mortar 143]

Probably like most, I was kinda hoping he and Cherrilee would become an item.  But, even though did have at least one date, post-spell, perhaps they felt a bit weird, probably wondering if they were still being influenced indirectly somehow.

As for Sugar Belle, I don't see anything happening here.  Although never specified, the Village (really needs a name) is apparently some distance outside of Ponyville, and while Mac may not mind hoofing it there and back for the moment, that kind of traveling will eventually get old.  So what then?  Would Mac move to the Village?  Nnnnope.  Would Sugar move her shop to Ponyville?  Doubtful.  As small as the Village is, she probably feels both an emotional and moral tie to the other ponies.  Consequently, they'll move on with their lives.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Mortar

[Kevin Tang 2,422]

The episode is good but the only thing I don't like is the cringy song at the climax. Just kinda disturbing.

[bigbertha 410]

This episode is uncomfortable. The entire episode has a very unnerving undertone with things like Big Mac trying to kiss Sugar Belle while she's sleeping because it happened in a fairy tale book. The CMC and Big Mac should be smart enough to realize that fairy tale books aren't good relationship advice. The jokes that come from it are more creepy than funny. Feather Bangs is okay, but he's not that funny. The song he sings feels like a less funny version of the song from "All Bottled Up". There's no reason for me to root for Big Mac and Sugar Belle to get together. They don't have any chemistry and Big Mac's attempts to woo her only make me root for them less. There are a few good jokes, but they're too few to bring up the episode.

Score: 2/10

[qwerE 95]

Wow, this looks like such a controversial episode. As for me, I actually quite liked it towards the end.

I never shipped Mac with anyone before- neither Cheerilee nor Marble. I don't ship this new Sugarmac either. I just can't get myself into any romance things- the only couple I kind of ship is Starlight+Sunburst. So I didn't really care that this episode breaks previous romance relationships.

I found Feather Bangs really annoying in the beginning, but came to like him in the end. His music wasn't too bad and he was quite cute in the end.

 

Now, as for the controversial kiss attempt from Big Mac- I do find it problematic but I don't find it as problematic as other kiss scenes in other cartoons - here's why:

The kiss attempt was not portrayed in such a way that glorifies sexual assault at all. It was portrayed as something disgusting and repulsive. Other cartoons that are being mentioned such as Looney Toons or Sleeping Beauty are way much worse in this sense, because they actually promote such behaviours to children. This episode, on the other hand, makes it clear that kissing someone without consent is not cool (just look at how they intentionally made Mac look disgusting), and that the girl won't like it even if she had feelings for you. It actually shows how problematic Mac's behaviour can be.

Then why do I find it problematic? I think this has the exact same problems as the previous episode, 'Parental Glideance'. It just doesn't make it clear, or calls it out explicitly. In 'Parental Glideance', the writers portray RD's parents as being obnoxious, and anyone who's watched it would find their behaviours problematic. Through this, the show implicitly tells parents that what RD's parents are doing are wrong. However, they don't actually say that in the story, and leave room for confusion. They made the same mistake this time as well - not explicitly telling what their intent actually were. I think they did these because they didn't want the episodes to feel too educational. I do get their concerns - people wouldn't like the show if watching it felt like school lessons. However, these kind of 'implicit storytelling' causes confusion, and we can see how it led to this being one of the most hated episodes. The writers should just be clear on what they are trying to tell us.

Edited November 20, 2018 by qwerE

[Moony the Cat 3,695]

I forgot what i voted...uh, i think i voted the middle option. I really dislike this stupid running gag with Big Mac barely saying any words and i also found the kiss scene to be weird and uncomfortable like most people her i assume.

I liked the Justin Bieber Pony but i disliked the concept of the entire Episode, not just that one Kiss. It was just 2 males harassing a female to the point where she gets a rage out. I dont understand this concept of fighting for a female as it seems to me, like they just wouldnt leave her alone until she says yes to someone, isnt that forcing it? I guess it happens a bit like this in real life as well and thats disgusting me, but i guess its just real life. I dont know. I hate the concept. ( just to clarify, if you fight a bit for a female thats fine i guess, i dont think you are disgusting, but sometimes i get the feeling that if some people think it would be " true love " with a specific person, that they will just try everything they can think off and wouldnt stop until that other person finally says yes, because i have the feeing like its forcing it to someone else, that is what i find bad. Whatever, i dont have any experience with real life anyway. )

Anyway, this Episode was still okay because of a few funny scenes and as i said, i actually liked the Justin Bieber Pony. Not sure why, i guess i just fell victim to him. XD

Edited December 3, 2018 by Nanotek

[bigbertha 410]

This episode is dumb. For a show that's trying to convince me that it has continuity (as seen by the references to Hearts and Hooves Day in this episode), it's a strange decision to make the CMC follow a fairy tale for romance after Forever Filly, which was about how Sweetie Belle is more more mature now. And it's even dumber that Big Mac goes along with it. And the jokes told from the plan range from bland to uncomfortable. 

It doesn't help that this episode has a teen pop star parody that was already dated when the episode came out. All the gags with him are too easy and the song he sings was already done better in All Bottled Up. Seriously, not one line in his song even comes close to "Friendship used to make me so queasy queasy". 

Overall, this is a boring, annoying, and slightly uncomfortable episode. Definitely not one to come back to.

Score: 3/10

[Rushing cash 824]

I can understand why people dislike this one, but I really liked this one, it was a bit to silly in some points but mostly I found it just funny and was happy too see an important character get a girlfriend, did not see that coming but I loved this. I really like this pair. While I watched the previous episodes I did not ship mac with anyone else so I didn't care about the other parings. The song was stupid however I find it funny and amusing, and was great and did its purpose, and sweetie belle admiring feather bangs was hilarious, Also I am glad they did not antagonize featherbangs. 9\10

[Props Valroa 25,983]

I personally love this episode but Feather Bangs was the low point, the 3 mares he was with were adorable. I liked the lesson here, Sugar Belle is adorable and she goes well with Big Mac! I love her and him. I think that this was a good episode. Wish they did something like this with two mares though.

[Astralshy 23,475]

Overall I like this episode and think a good one.

Of course the CMC are getting carried away like this song for example. But at least it's no love poison this time. I can understand for people not to want to see this (again). For me: I have enough humor to digest it properly :)

I also think that Sugar Belle is adorable and goes well with Big Mac. I also like in particular her voice. It was nice to see Starlight's village again and it's always good if places and characters are coming up again. Feather Bang is also not a favorite of mine but he works well enough for this episode.

 

[JMTV99 1,348]

I don't know how to feel about this episode. On one hand, it's great to see Sugar Belle again since Season 5, and as someone love the CherriMac shipping, I don't mind SugarMac since I thought it was pretty clever.

But on the other hand, there are some things that let me very questioned about this episode.

-Why is Big Mac didn't like Cheerilee anymore? I get that this episode didn't want to repeat the same mistakes with Hearts and Hooves Day back in Season 2 with the love potion, but still he didn't really explain why.

- Out of all the characters that Big Mac had a crush on, why did he a crush on Sugar Belle? We didn't get to know much about Sugar Belle other than being a baker at Starlight's village. At least with Cheerilee, other than being a teacher, explains some things about her even if the show doesn't use her full potential. It also doesn't help that this episode in which Big Mac was smiting all over Sugar Belle throughout half of the runtime was pretty inappropriate on his part.

- Why did this episode had to choose to the CMC's again? Didn't they know their 'love plan' already failed before. Why bother doing it again? Can't this episode used other characters other than the CMCs? How about Rarity? She had experiences with crushes before since she used to had a crush on Prince Blueblood back in Season 1. Or heck, why not Princess Cadence? The Princess of Love? That could work since she had a crush on Shining Armor and married him. Also, she had potential for more backstory. But no, it had to be the CMCs. But then again, even if you want to include the CMC's, you can still have Big Mac had a crush on Cheerilee without using the love potion.

- Why is that Feather Bangs had a crush on Sugar Belle? This Justin Bieber looking mo-fo came right out of nowhere and it comes off as quite irritating. What did he see in her other than she's looks pretty? I'm aware that he's supposed to be a Gaston parody mixed with Justin Beiber, but the problem is that 1. it's completely outdated since Justin Bieber wasn't all that popular anymore and 2. he comes off as pretty shallow. Next to Flash Sentry, Feather Bangs didn't really need to exist.

Questions like these left me very confusing and kind of frustrated. I guess this episode was trying to make-up for what happened with Hearts and Hooves Day and trying to make Big Mac's crush feels natural instead of artificial and make it a Beauty and The Beast parody, but it just didn't work for me.

Edited May 21, 2021 by JMTV99

[Gale Wind 79]

I always find it interesting to look back at these old threads and see what people thought about the episodes. I’m still not totally sure how I feel about the ship, even though now we know more did happen and they got married.