Princess of the Night inequality

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Ok, I feel like this is an issue in the newest episode, A Royal Problem that is largely being ignored- which IS, quite the royal problem indeed, in fact.

What is wrong with this picture?

That's right- on sole throne for the Sol princess, while the lunar guardian stands off to the side. This is the Canterlot castle, the newer castle of the two sisters, yet in the ruins of their older, dilapidated home, there stands two thrones- one for each sister, side by side.

I find this very concerning, and a problem that isn't given enough attention in "A Royal Problem", as its only Luna's nightly duties that are given acknowledgement by her sister, rather than her royal standing as an equal in relation to her.

 

Edited June 12, 2017 by Nightmare Muffin

[Quinch 1,119]

Hmmm. I'm wondering if it's kind of a "princess on duty" deal - whoever has to deal with whatever inane issue pony bring to her gets the comfy chair just in case they start to get sympathetic butthurt.

[Meson Bolt 2,647]

I like to think that it's just a minor issue.  Remember, Luna was away for 1000 years, so there would be absolutely no reason to make two thrones if one would constantly be vacant. I just like to think Celestia is either lazy or a bit absent-minded and just hasn't gotten around to renovating the place.

[Krashface 534]

Probably, Quinch's right. Plus, I think the two swap the seat when is their respective "turn" (day for Celestia, night for Luna), so this explain why 2 thrones is actually useless.

 

[cmarston1 5,951]

Given how both of them work at different times of the day/night, I don't see why there would need to be two thrones seeing how they wouldn't get use.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

36 minutes ago, cmarston1 said:

Given how both of them work at different times of the day/night, I don't see why there would need to be two thrones seeing how they wouldn't get use.

why were there two in the old castle, in that case?

[Quinch 1,119]

Interior design decision, maybe? It might be possible there are multiple throne rooms for different occasions, too - it's a pretty big castle.

[Jeric 46,834]

I see no issue here for numerous reasons. Other cultures place the oldest in a higher order of rule, Luna was away for 1000 years, and having a throne is functionally unnecessary due to Luna's actual role. 

Also, you just noticed this after years and years of it being highlighted ever single episode in the intro?

 

[Steve Piranha 28,747]

Well, in the old castle, both princesses were ruling from the beginning, but then the castle in Canterlot, Celly ruled alone in about a thousand years. When she came back, yeah, maybe there should be two thrones, but I guess they've figured out that'll be impractical to spend bits of Equestria taxes in something that's basically aesthetic, as the princesses are rarely active at the same time it seems. Plus, with Luna watching over the dreams, it makes sense she hardly has her moonbutt on the throne in he first place  

[cmarston1 5,951]

2 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

why were there two in the old castle, in that case?

To look cool, I guess.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

I see no issue here for numerous reasons. Other cultures place the oldest in a higher order of rule, Luna was away for 1000 years, and having a throne is functionally unnecessary due to Luna's actual role. 

Also, you just noticed this after years and years of it being highlighted ever single episode in the intro?

 

I have always known Luna to stand off to the side in the intro, when they started to include her. And it has bothered me from the beginning. But as with the problem in A Royal Problem, some things you keep inside until it reaches a boiling point.

(also, many, MANY topics fighting for dominance in my head)

[Jeric 46,834]

2 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

I have always known Luna to stand off to the side in the intro, when they started to include her. And it has bothered me from the beginning. But as with the problem in A Royal Problem, some things you keep inside until it reaches a boiling point.

(also, many, MANY topics fighting for dominance in my head)

Ok. So ... circling back to my original point, you have several valid reason her lack of a throne in the castle is that way, and the only reason I can see them being rejected would be if the person has a negative bias against Celestia and buys into some degree of her not being benevolent. What's your motivation? 

[Gestum 2,493]

Personally I belive that it's a form of punishment for when Luna tried to force Celestia off her throne.

Also a throne like that is not something you build in a day so it's possible that it's just not ready yet.

[Foxy Socks 2,596]

I doubt she just stands there all day.  She may have other places she goes more often. She is younger too.

23 hours ago, Gestum said:

Personally I belive that it's a form of punishment for when Luna tried to force Celestia off her throne.

Also a throne like that is not something you build in a day so it's possible that it's just not ready yet.

The last thing she needs is punishment now. 

[ManaMinori 4,143]

On 6/13/2017 at 1:58 PM, Gestum said:

Personally I belive that it's a form of punishment for when Luna tried to force Celestia off her throne.

Also a throne like that is not something you build in a day so it's possible that it's just not ready yet.

its not something that takes 1000 years to build, either.

[CypherHoof 26,479]

I don't think it's that complex. Celestia's duties require her to adjudicate disputes, receive visiting dignitaries, that sort of thing - all stuff a formal throne and throne room is good for. Luna doesn't do that stuff, so doesn't really need it

[Meeps 297]

It doesn't bother me, although it is still a point, I suppose. In my mind, Luna is younger than Celestia, and in this land that is enough justification for her to be slightly "below" Celestia (although still very important)! 

[CypherHoof 26,479]

For that matter though, you could make the case that it isn't either of their thrones, but Celestia's during the day, and Luna's during the night - although Luna would probably find something more comfortable to lounge on while working in the dream realm, given there isn't anyone in the waking realm to impress with how fancy her seat is...

[Totally Nyx 35,469]

I think it's better to have just the one throne. Sure this is wild speculation, but I think having two thrones played a role in Luna becoming Nightmare Moon. Trying to rule the day equally, each with her own throne, couldn't work as that's more Celestia's specialty. The feeling of being inferior to Celestia coupled with no one caring at all about what she does for the night couldn't not get to Luna after a while.

Now they don't try to be the same. Yes they're equal, but not the same, each taking care of her own area and not worried about being better or worse than the other. Luna doesn't even need a throne to rule over the dream realm. The rare occasion they'd both need to be there is most likely ceremonial, honoring a guest by having both princesses make an appearance. Having Luna be to the side might also help to not confuse the issue as to which of them is there to handle the current situation.

[Gestum 2,493]

20 hours ago, Foxy Socks said:

The last thing she needs is punishment now. 

Then she shouldn't have tried to take over the kingdom.

 

18 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

its not something that takes 1000 years to build, either.

It's not that long ago that she became reformed and I doubt it was in anyones mind to build her a throne before that.

[BlinkZ 1,151]

On 6/12/2017 at 0:06 PM, Steve Piranha said:

Well, in the old castle, both princesses were ruling from the beginning, but then the castle in Canterlot, Celly ruled alone in about a thousand years. When she came back, yeah, maybe there should be two thrones, but I guess they've figured out that'll be impractical to spend bits of Equestria taxes in something that's basically aesthetic, as the princesses are rarely active at the same time it seems. Plus, with Luna watching over the dreams, it makes sense she hardly has her moonbutt on the throne in he first place  

Make me wonder where she is when she does her dream walking. is she snoozing in bed or meditating 

But yeah they are equel we just we don't see a lot of behind the scene stuff "luna filling out paperwork woudl be boring to watch"

[Foxy Socks 2,596]

6 hours ago, Gestum said:

Then she shouldn't have tried to take over the kingdom.

 

It's not that long ago that she became reformed and I doubt it was in anyones mind to build her a throne before that.

She had already been through enough. How is that fitting?

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

On 2017-06-13 at 10:58 PM, Gestum said:

Also a throne like that is not something you build in a day so it's possible that it's just not ready yet.

She has been reformed for at least year though, so it's not like there haven't been enough time to build another one.  

[BlinkZ 1,151]

10 hours ago, Yamet said:

She has been reformed for at least year though, so it's not like there haven't been enough time to build another one.  

I remember there being a fnafic about Luan getting her own throne in the throne room.

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

Well, this issue has been largely resolved with the S8 throne room remodel, so thats' awesome, however, it's still an issue that worth discussing.  As I understand it, the Sisters are supposed to be co-rulers.  (Actually, in the Journal of the Two Sisters, they explained that they did not like the term "ruler", as it placed them too far above other ponies.  They wanted to thought of as guardians.)  So, they're co-guardians.  They're supposed to be equals, serving and protecting the realm together, but there's always been an implication that Celestia is number one.  They've sort of constructed it this way from day 1, and it seems so intuitive now that I'm not sure anyone could really think about it any other way.  Celestia is the head honcho, and Luna is number two.  This is how it seems to everypony in the land, and to the audience.  That's definitely how it's been imprinted in my mind, which seems a shame, really, because I believe they're supposed to be truly equals.

Luna definitely doesn't get enough credit.  Just take a look at this bio of Celestia from the Elements of Harmony show companion book:

(Excerpts)  "Princess Celestia is the kind and wise ruler of Equestria, governing her subjects from her castle..."  "With the help of her sister, Princess Luna, she makes sure the sun and moon rise and set each day."

Ugh.  That's terrible!  THE ruler.  Not co-ruler, just ruler.  The big P.C.  Head honcho.  Numero Uno.  And with the help of her sister, Celestia makes sure the sun and moon rise and set.  Celestia raises and lowers the sun and moon, and Luna helps, apparently.  Luna: assistant ruler of Equestria.  Better yet, Luna: assistant to the ruler of Equestria.

No, that's not right at all.  Celestia does the day, and Luna does the night.  Incidentally, we know that Tia did the sun and moon solo during Luna's banishment, but I have a headcanon about that: during that entire millennium, Celestia had the Elements of Harmony close at hoof.  I believe that having those in your possession for a long period of time strengthens your magic, much like how having the One Ring in your pocket slows aging.  Anyway, together, the Sisters are co-guardians.  They're supposed to have equal power and equal authority.  This is definitely a Michael/Jim co-manager thing.

Luna: Okay, everypony!  Celestia and I are co-rulers.  I can do anything she can.  I have just as much power as Celestia does."

Everypony tries not to snicker.

Luna: "Who here believes I have as much power as Celestia?"

Silence.  Cricket chirps.

Luna (mumbles): "Oh for Starswirl's sake..."

Something else that I never thought much about is the fact that Luna is suppose to be the younger sister, but by how much?  Maybe it's just me, but I always thought that the Sisters were supposed to be twins, and Celestia was just born first, and thus is the elder sister by a technicality, but they're really the same age.  I dunno.  That's what I just always imagined.  But if Celestia really is older, she can't be very much older, as the Journal describes them as being fillies at the same time.  Maybe just a year or so, which isn't much when you consider that they are (according to the timeline revealed in Horse Play) most likely about 1130 years old or so.  It's not like Tia is really an elder compared to Luna.

So, just to underline the fact that this issue is still an issue, take a look at this:

She's got a throne, at least.  That's a start, but notice how Celestia's is a liiittle bit taller?  And it's not just because Tia herself is bigger.  The throne is way taller than she needs.  Oh, Tia knew what she was doing all right.  "Let's get one thing straight, sis: we're co-rulers, but the buck stops here, got it?"

 

In all seriousness, I think this inequality can be explained by Luna's thousand year absence.  That was a very long time for the ponies of the land to get used to a single ruler/guardian.  Think about how much has changed in human history in a thousand years.  A thousand years ago was....like....somewhere between the world of Troy and Braveheart.  I mean, we only just abolished slavery in the U.S. a little over two centuries ago, and we still feel the residual effects of racism.  Imagine having a single ruler governing over the land for a millennium.  That would be hard to change.  None of the ponies alive today have any memory of Luna, save from ancient stories.  Until now, that is.  It must be hard for them to adjust to having a co-ruler suddenly back in the game.  This is something I never really thought of until now.  And Luna has definitely faced some serious struggles readjusting as well.  It figures that she wouldn't immediately have everypony's respect.  It might take awhile, but in a few decades, her throne will probably be at the same height as Tia's.