Map of Equestria expanded AGAIN

[CypherHoof 26,479]

1 minute ago, EightBit said:

The narwhal at the bottom is all that matters, really. 

Well, it wouldn't make sense to give a whale wings

[EightBit 284]

6 hours ago, CypherHoof said:

Well, it wouldn't make sense to give a whale wings

What? I didn't even mention wings. 

[CypherHoof 26,479]

Just now, EightBit said:

What? I didn't even mention wings. 

Paul McCartney has that problem too

[EightBit 284]

4 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Paul McCartney has that problem too

I'm so confused! 

[Hierok 11,829]

On 5-8-2017 at 2:19 PM, EightBit said:

The narwhal at the bottom is all that matters, really. 

Now I want to listen to this again.  Thanks.

 

[SparklingSwirls 21,261]

Yes that narwhal 

 

Hmm I'm a bit disappointed that the map doesn't include the names of the places; hopefully there will be an update with the new names. Also that place in the desert looks interesting!

[Castle Bleck 19,166]

Reminds me of the map from Paper Mario 64.

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

I am totally in love with maps and have been all my life. This map expansion is exactly what I wanted to see, even if all of the labels were stripped off. By the way, for everyone wondering about that skull mountain: on previous maps it's been labled "Arimaspi Territories" and that species is what the Grogar-like monster that stole the artifact from the Griffons was. So I'm pretty sure it's not a place we'd ever see visited.

What impresses me so much about the size of this map is the sheer scale of the territory covered, and how much it makes me wish we had a map that was properly to scale. This map shows us, at the very least, all the way up to close to the north pole of the planet, and down just to the north of the south pole as well, showing that Equestrian territory (which only extends to about the edge of the Macintosh Hills, those red mountains through which the southern rail line passes) is easily, when taken to scale, the size of the continental United States. If we extend Equestrian territory down past the mountains to the end of the rail line--which would make sense given the rail line is strictly within Equestrian territory, and yes I count the griffons as being part of Equestria as otherwise they wouldn't have been able to participate in the Equestria Games--that includes all of Mexico as well, if not possibly the rest of Central America.

In other words, Equestria is freaking gigantic, far more so than the show has implied, what with all distances being crossed by the speed of plot. It's making me want to significantly ratchet up my previous estimates of their population. I was originally hazarding a guess that Equestria had a population of around thirty million total, counting all species, but now with the context provided I want to raise that up to at least one hundred million.

I hope we receive a properly labeled version of this map soon. While we can guess at most of the places--the town in the desert was seen in the trailer, the place in the ocean is obviously the Seaponies, etc--having official names would be very helpful. Like knowing what that town the southern rail ends at is, for instance.

[Philweasel 139]

26 minutes ago, Queen Cassie said:

I am totally in love with maps and have been all my life. This map expansion is exactly what I wanted to see, even if all of the labels were stripped off. By the way, for everyone wondering about that skull mountain: on previous maps it's been labled "Arimaspi Territories" and that species is what the Grogar-like monster that stole the artifact from the Griffons was. So I'm pretty sure it's not a place we'd ever see visited.

What impresses me so much about the size of this map is the sheer scale of the territory covered, and how much it makes me wish we had a map that was properly to scale. This map shows us, at the very least, all the way up to close to the north pole of the planet, and down just to the north of the south pole as well, showing that Equestrian territory (which only extends to about the edge of the Macintosh Hills, those red mountains through which the southern rail line passes) is easily, when taken to scale, the size of the continental United States. If we extend Equestrian territory down past the mountains to the end of the rail line--which would make sense given the rail line is strictly within Equestrian territory, and yes I count the griffons as being part of Equestria as otherwise they wouldn't have been able to participate in the Equestria Games--that includes all of Mexico as well, if not possibly the rest of Central America.

In other words, Equestria is freaking gigantic, far more so than the show has implied, what with all distances being crossed by the speed of plot. It's making me want to significantly ratchet up my previous estimates of their population. I was originally hazarding a guess that Equestria had a population of around thirty million total, counting all species, but now with the context provided I want to raise that up to at least one hundred million.

I hope we receive a properly labeled version of this map soon. While we can guess at most of the places--the town in the desert was seen in the trailer, the place in the ocean is obviously the Seaponies, etc--having official names would be very helpful. Like knowing what that town the southern rail ends at is, for instance.

The Legends of Harmony comics and Journey of the Two Sisters book seems to strongly indicate the griffons had territory across the main Equestria continent back during the early days of Equestria, near Cloudsdale and across a river that indicated the borderline. That river is likely the one that runs by Canterlot, which means they used to hold a significant part of the country!

That's... really damn sad.

I wonder if given this those Griffons in the Equestrian games are actually Equestria citizens from one of the towns on the main continent, that stuck around after Equestria annexed their territory. Griffonstone is certainly described like a sovereign kingdom.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Philweasel

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

11 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

The Legends of Harmony comics and Journey of the Two Sisters book seems to strongly indicate the griffons had territory across the main Equestria continent back during the early days of Equestria, near Cloudsdale and across a river that indicated the borderline. That river is likely the one that runs by Canterlot, which means they used to hold a significant part of the country!

That's... really damn sad.

I wonder if given this those Griffons in the Equestrian games are actually Equestria citizens from one of the towns on the main continent, that stuck around after Equestria annexed their territory. Griffonstone is certainly described like a sovereign kingdom.

See it's debatable for me because, among other things, the city of Trottingham, a most assuredly pony city, lays on an archipelago labeled "the Griffish Isles." But also because the rail line runs right up to the ancient capital, something we don't see happening to any other country. If that city down at the southern rail line is confirmed to be part of Equestria, that only adds support to my claim.

I think Griffonstone was definitely sovereign, once upon a time. But over time, especially as it fell apart, I think I could see most of the griffon territory, and the griffons dwelling within, becoming a part of Equestria for one reason or another. It's possible Griffonstone itself and a small amount of territory are still independent, but honestly I'm not so sure. Some of this also comes from my interpretation of the Equestrian government being like a form of the Holy Roman Empire, though, with Equestria divided up into a substantial number of member states. This was something I came up with for my (now cancelled) story The West Tower. Attached is a map I made up for myself for said story. This interpretation, incidentally ,came about because of the throwaway line one of the Flim Flams have back in SSCS6K about the "Kingdom of Canterlot" and has only become more solid over time.

Odds are though we'll never have total confirmation in canon because this show isn't really into the kind of worldbuilding I want. It's made to sell toys.

[Philweasel 139]

1 minute ago, Queen Cassie said:

See it's debatable for me because, among other things, the city of Trottingham, a most assuredly pony city, lays on an archipelago labeled "the Griffish Isles." But also because the rail line runs right up to the ancient capital, something we don't see happening to any other country. If that city down at the southern rail line is confirmed to be part of Equestria, that only adds support to my claim.

I think Griffonstone was definitely sovereign, once upon a time. But over time, especially as it fell apart, I think I could see most of the griffon territory, and the griffons dwelling within, becoming a part of Equestria for one reason or another. It's possible Griffonstone itself and a small amount of territory are still independent, but honestly I'm not so sure. Some of this also comes from my interpretation of the Equestrian government being like a form of the Holy Roman Empire, though, with Equestria divided up into a substantial number of member states. This was something I came up with for my (now cancelled) story The West Tower. Attached is a map I made up for myself for said story. This interpretation, incidentally ,came about because of the throwaway line one of the Flim Flams have back in SSCS6K about the "Kingdom of Canterlot" and has only become more solid over time.

Odds are though we'll never have total confirmation in canon because this show isn't really into the kind of worldbuilding I want. It's made to sell toys.

The line does stop a fair way before Griffonstone though, and it's rather badly maintained. It's quite possible it was built during a peaceful time between Equestria and the Griffons, and Celestia still maintains it for Griffons traveling back and forth from their old home. It's also the one easy access between this continent and the next, so it's likely of interest for scholars and explorers. Bet Daring Doo's used it a couple of times.

Manehatten and Fillydephia are never mentioned in books occurring back during the period directly following Hearth's Warming, so I can definitely see the Griffons holding those areas back then.

As an aside, the Griffon's argument during the Journal of Two Sisters is a doozy. They had a treaty with Pegasopolis to keep away from their borders, yet soon after Equestria was formed they immediately started to seize territory. Celestia went to demand an explanation, and the Griffons argued that their treaty was with Pegasopolis. Now that country no longer existed all their territory was null and void and ripe for the taking, and all treaties no longer applied. If Celestia wanted treaties for Equestria, she would have to renegotiate them with the new borders.

Fortunately Luna saved the day before Celestia atomized the jerk.

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

I haven't actually read The Journal of the Two Sisters. I was tempted but I understand the show declaring that no alicorn before Flurry Heart had been born an alicorn rendered it at least partially non-canon. (And honestly I am suspect of anything that doesn't appear directly in the show/movies.)

Still the general idea of a large conflict with the griffons around that time makes sense, and that does seem quite compelling.

As for Griffonstone, on the older maps the place where the rail line stops is labeled Griffonstone Station, which you can see on the map I attached. That's why I say the rail line runs to Griffonstone even if it doesn't visually run all the way to the location of the city itself. Given that the map is not at all to scale it's very possible that station is actually not far from the city itself. Though it's been too long since I watched Lost Treasure of Griffonstone. I should rewatch it.

[Philweasel 139]

11 minutes ago, Queen Cassie said:

I haven't actually read The Journal of the Two Sisters. I was tempted but I understand the show declaring that no alicorn before Flurry Heart had been born an alicorn rendered it at least partially non-canon. (And honestly I am suspect of anything that doesn't appear directly in the show/movies.)

Still the general idea of a large conflict with the griffons around that time makes sense, and that does seem quite compelling.

As for Griffonstone, on the older maps the place where the rail line stops is labeled Griffonstone Station, which you can see on the map I attached. That's why I say the rail line runs to Griffonstone even if it doesn't visually run all the way to the location of the city itself. Given that the map is not at all to scale it's very possible that station is actually not far from the city itself. Though it's been too long since I watched Lost Treasure of Griffonstone. I should rewatch it.

It was quite a trek from the station! Time for a whole Twilight lecture on the history of the area and a 'long journey' montage, though I imagine it would be easier if you could fly.

And it was "No alicorn before Flurry Heart had been born in Equestria." Since Celestia and Luna predate Equestria, and might have founded it (depending on when you count the offical founding of the country), neither would have been born there.

Heaven knows what happened to the rest of them though.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Philweasel

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

1 minute ago, Philweasel said:

It was quite a trek from the station! Time for a whole Twilight lecture on the history of the area and a 'long journey' montage, though I imagine it would be easier if you could fly.

And it was "No alicorn before Flurry Heart had been born in Equestria." Since Celestia and Luna predate Equestria, and might have founded it (depending on where you count the offical founding of the country), neither would have been born there.

Heaven knows what happened to the rest of them though.

Indeed. At which point you get into the classic kind of finangling that results in any number of interpretations. MLP being so open-ended when it comes to worldbuilding and allowing you to interject all kinds of different interpretations is simultaneously enjoyable and highly frustrating.

Though I should point out since I'm watching the episode right now, Griffonstone was visible from the station. It was somewhat far away, atop a mountain, but it was visible, meaning it couldn't have been more than fifteen or twenty miles away at the absolute most. That's still fairly close for my book.

[Philweasel 139]

9 minutes ago, Queen Cassie said:

Indeed. At which point you get into the classic kind of finangling that results in any number of interpretations. MLP being so open-ended when it comes to worldbuilding and allowing you to interject all kinds of different interpretations is simultaneously enjoyable and highly frustrating.

Word of god is that Celestia and Luna are natural born alicorns, but even that's incredibly vague. I always liked the idea that cabal of powerful magic users transformed ponies into alicorns while they were still in the womb, but that's pure headcanon with no evidence behind it.

The Journal of Two Sisters isn't super detailed for the record. The most interesting things in it? Zebra just past the Everfree forest (likely where Dodge City and Appleloosa are now), the first reference to Queen Amore of the Crystal Empire and that the Crystal Heart was from a Dragon Hoard, that Celestia and Luna are not immortal, but very long lived, that the Unicorns originally raised the sun and moon, and Equestria was a federation to begin with and Celestia and Luna were invited to be impartial overseers.

Also that Chancellor Puddinghead and Commander Hurricane were heavily flanderised in that play (in fact Luna disliked Smart Cookie, and thought Puddinghead was a really good leader). Princess Platinum on the other hoof was still a stuck up little brat (and it was her Father, King Bullion, who was actually in charge).

Edited August 7, 2017 by Philweasel

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

31 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

Word of god is that Celestia and Luna are natural born alicorns, but even that's incredibly vague. I always liked the idea that cabal of powerful magic users transformed ponies into alicorns while they were still in the womb, but that's pure headcanon with no evidence behind it.

The Journal of Two Sisters isn't super detailed for the record. The most interesting things in it? Zebra just past the Everfree forest (likely where Dodge City and Appleloosa are now), the first reference to Queen Amore of the Crystal Empire and that the Crystal Heart was from a Dragon Hoard, that Celestia and Luna are not immortal, but very long lived, that the Unicorns originally raised the sun and moon, and Equestria was a federation to begin with and Celestia and Luna were invited to be impartial overseers.

Also that Chancellor Puddinghead and Commander Hurricane were heavily flanderised in that play (in fact Luna disliked Smart Cookie, and thought Puddinghead was a really good leader). Princess Platinum on the other hoof was still a stuck up little brat (and it was her Father, King Bullion, who was actually in charge).

Were Puddinghead and Hurricane dudes, or were all of the Founders ladies? This is very important to me.

[Philweasel 139]

4 minutes ago, Queen Cassie said:

Were Puddinghead and Hurricane dudes, or were all of the Founders ladies? This is very important to me.

Hurricane is male, the rest were female. Private Pansy doesn't actually appear, though we do have a semi-official picture of her.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Philweasel

[Foxy Socks 2,596]

Wow, I really like this. It's pretty cool for a show like this to have a map like that. I wonder if there is any more to add to the map. It looks like it runs from far north to far south now, though it is still a bit difficult to tell. Judging by the angle and sizes, at least two or three major continents or landmasses could be added.

[Philweasel 139]

Apparently (well, according to the really dubiously canon card game, but I like the idea) Private Pansy never rose above private, and was more a lover than a fighter. This makes me think (along with her not appearing in the Journal) that her role as Commander Hurricanes' second in command is a function of Economy Cast and she didn't really have much to do with him. She was inserted into that role because she was important to the Hearth's Warming Eve celebration.

[Hierok 11,829]

7 hours ago, Foxy Socks said:

Wow, I really like this. It's pretty cool for a show like this to have a map like that. I wonder if there is any more to add to the map. It looks like it runs from far north to far south now, though it is still a bit difficult to tell. Judging by the angle and sizes, at least two or three major continents or landmasses could be added.

Yeah, but I hoped it was a little bit more realistic. Like @Queen Cassie mentiones it is like the size of north and south America together. 

[Foxy Socks 2,596]

33 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Yeah, but I hoped it was a little bit more realistic. Like @Queen Cassie mentiones it is like the size of north and south America together. 

I don't think it's supposed to be too realistic. Besides, I love the map style. It really fits the show.

[Hierok 11,829]

Just now, Foxy Socks said:

I don't think it's supposed to be too realistic. Besides, I love the map style. It really fits the show.

You obviously right, but I love maps since I was young and I would like it to be realistic. 

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

I think it's highly unlikely we'll get a canon "to scale" map because I don't believe any of the show staff are qualified cartographers, and it would require so much more extra detail--if nothing else such a map would require a lot more cities to be labeled, and so forth.

But others have been working on various maps of Equestria since the beginning of the show (some more out there than others, though admittedly until the map first appeared all of us thought that Dodge Junction/Appleloosa were to the north of Canterlot and Manehattan was to the west of Ponyville, amongst other things) so I'm sure now that this has appeared someone somewhere is probably working on a version that'll contain a lot more detail. After all there's plenty of things we've yet to discover, such as the homeland of the zebras, or the minotaurs, and if the map from the first movie prequel comic is anything to go by, there's another continent to the east or west that contains Abyssinia, where Capper's people are from. And while I was loathe in the past to take anything from the comic as canon, Hasbro has been trying to get the show and the comics much closer recently, so the prequel comics are indeed canon, as are many other comics after a certain point. (I want to say after Issue 50? I'm not sure.)

[Princess Book Horse 350]

On 8/7/2017 at 11:44 AM, SparklingSwirls said:

Yes that narwhal 

 

Hmm I'm a bit disappointed that the map doesn't include the names of the places; hopefully there will be an update with the new names. Also that place in the desert looks interesting!

Maybe they don't want to spoil the names yet, since most of the new additions are likely to be explored in the movie.

 

[Philweasel 139]

Here we are, the Pegasus/Griffon Border.