S07:E14 - Fame and Misfortune

[Violet Bookish 349]

2 hours ago, Jeric said:

Silver Quill actually had a curious take on the episode, actually turning the moral on its head and saying that the fans aren't flawless. I also found it amusing that he uses Trek to highlight one of his points as this fandom (especially at cons) reminds me of an adolescent Trek fandom (or what it would have looked like if the internet was as ubiquitous back then as it is today) . 

 

 

 

Completely unrelated to the episode, I did not know Silver covered the famous Barthes essay. Have to check out that video to make sure he actually did it justice since most that invoke it have no fucking idea what the hell else it said. I saw someone mention that it's a trope, ignoring the fact that it's actually an entire philosophy of literary critique that surfaced decades ago based around the same concept. If that is a trope, talk about a meta paradox.  

 

 

This is why I love Silver Quill. Not only did he look at the good sides and bad sides of the episode but he offered new food for thought. He's definitely given me a new appreciation for the episode as always. I still don't like it and for me, the issues make it unenjoyable, but that doesn't mean I can't like or appreciate the messages Silver Quill pointed out and enjoy that awesome song sequence again. I appreciate the messages and enjoy them, but I still have issues with it and point out the episode's flaws. What I'm trying to say is, I haven't forgotten about the message and I don't think other fans with this issue have either, we just weren't fond of the presentation and some of the implications given off by the episode. Personally, as a creator as well, I got the message and understood their pain and concerns, I just had some issues in the presentation and I end up focusing mostly on the negatives when reviewing such things rather than the positives because I usually don't have as much to say about them compared to the negatives, but it's import to understand I see them. But I can't speak for everyone and in the end, I'm just speaking for myself. However, regardless, I love Silver Quills positive out look on the episode and I like the fact he could watch it with an open mind and find the good in it. That's always something to be admired.

[Violet Bookish 349]

On 8/27/2017 at 9:01 PM, Brightbart said:

Nice to get a song, a good one too; I feel like there haven't been that many this season. Someone can probably remind me otherwise but this seems like the first episode where the conflict wasn't resolved. The mane 6 sort of just resigned to deal with it later so definitely a break from how the episodes usually go. I wonder if we'll a quick little cameo of this in the future, maybe a comment made in the background etc. I think that'd be good attention to detail on the part of the writers. 

One thing this episode made me think of is how much older the mane 6 are now compared to the seasons 1/2. That book looked quite old and the mane 6 are more mature/act older than they used to which is some nice character development. Overall I'm really enjoying this season, definitely an improvement from season 6 and this episode continued this trend . 

While I may not have liked this episode, I definitely have to applaud it on its musical sequence. I have never been a fan of the music in my little pony from day one. They were usually way too cheesy for me and I ended up skipping over most of them or listening to one and thinking it was okay at best. This one how ever I fell in love with. Not only that but the message in the song made it very relatable, and it had a catchy tune to match. It is true, none of us are flawless, and it was nice to see the main six admit to their flaws.

Also, great attention to detail. I never thought about it in that way and just thought they had forgotten about the book and hadn't given it enough tlc. Your theory makes a lot more sense though, especially since it's been worn and torn from the main six using it. It's definitely a nice touch on the writers part and it's great to see the characters develop and be reminded of how they used to be back then.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Butterquilt

[Sh Pie 65]

This was a humorous episode with lots of lighthearted meta jokes. Critics of Ponyville are just like the brony fanbase with complaints like "Twilight was better before she had wings!" and "Are Pinkie and AJ related or not?" that you see often. The moral is something many critical bronies could benefit from. There are inevitably going to be episodes, not just in MLP but in most shows, that someone will dislike. Even the most revered of episodes will have minorities who think otherwise and vice versa. I'm no different. The point is that the staff are flawed, just like everyone else on the planet. Without flaws, MLP would not exist. The show is all about growing and learning and there would be no lessons to learn if the ponies were all "mary sues" with no quirks or room for development.

Even thought there are episodes we dislike, we shouldn't hold it against the staff. They are flawed and like the characters in the show, they are still learning. However, some staff are just irredeemable. Thankfully, there are no staff behind MLP that have crossed the line.

Overall, a great episode that pokes fun of staff and fanbase alike while conveying a serious moral that has never been addressed before in the show. A much needed comedic episode after the last episode left a lot of bronies heartbroken.

EDIT: Oh cr*p, lost pun opportunity. Could've said "mare-y sues" instead.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Sh Pie

[bwrosas 252]

Well, when one looks at it, the staff was not only pointing out the complaints and criticisms we as fans have had over the seasons. But through the "We're Not Flawless" song, basically told us that not everything they've showcased in the past and will showcase in the future is going to be perfect or exactly what you (as fans) want.

And the ending where AppleJack asked about the ponies (representation of the fanbase) outside the castle, and Twlight's response was that they can wait, I look at as the writing staff telling us, that the answers to the questions we seek will come, but we have to wait and be patient.

Another thing I sense with this episode (based on what others , like Silver Quill and Dr. Wolfe had to say), is that the writing staff was kinda telling us that if want answers to these questions/criticisms/complaints, that perhaps we should try to do it ourselves. Because it seems that they're telling us at the end of the episode, that yes we will possibly get the answers to our questions, but that the door is opened for us to try and answer these questions through our own interpretation.

Now did they have to have Starlight say the line that she did, about it not being the Mane 6's fault, but everypony else's for focusing on the wrong things. In a way no.  But it was done, because the writing staff was reminding us, especially at the end when Starlight brought the two foils from earlier, what the core/heart of the show and lessons were really about and who (originally) the target audience it was aimed towards. 

However, like SQ said in his video, it doesn't mean the writing staff (through the characters) wants to incorporate these lessons and morals into trying to make our everyday lives better, because they probably do, but at the end of all this, to remember what the show and the lessons were/are really about and who (originally) they were really meant for.

Not saying we can't enjoy MLP : FIM for what it is , that being a good overall story/series (comic books, TV) or the upcoming movie. Because we can and should.  But as the writing staff (as meta as it was) reminded us at the of this episode , that through our enjoyment, to remember what the show originally was meant as and who it originally was meant for.

Have A Blessed Day-bwrosas

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by bwrosas

[Brainstorm 4,092]

In the Main Six defense, the book hasn't been seen since S4, so I think they might've forgotten to proofread it first, before publishing it.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Brainstorm

[Meeps 297]

Looks like the writers got to have some fun with this episode. It was a joy to watch, especially seeing them take a shot at some of the most common gripes in the fandom. Very cool to see a show like this tackle some issues that may come up in a realistic setting, and teaches a great lesson regarding intention and outcome.

[Theknightofdraconia 31]

On 8/12/2017 at 1:05 PM, KH7672 said:

Starlight is there as the outside impression of the book and she also won't be mobbed since she's not in it unlike Spike (Power Ponies and Equestria Games) I noticed that too funny enough they could have easily written him out totally in character:

[Starlight, Twilight and Spike experience the Fillydelphia fans and Twilight expresses dislike]

Spike: Don't worry Twilight you'll get used to it, trust me.

Random Ponies: There he is!

Sipke: Ah look at my new fans already. And who should I write this out to?

Pony: Actually I'm wondering why you think you're so useless I mean look at all this stuff you do what's wrong with you!

Spike: I...uh..well

Pony: Well no more we're here to make you feel special in fact I could your help for [insert task here]

Pony: Oh me too there's so many things you could do for me and I'd really appreciate it! [Glares at Twilight]

[Ponies begin closing in as he back away]

Twilight: Spike, where are you going?

Spike: Anywhere but here, if you girls need me I'll be hiding in the castle. Don't come unless you're alone!

[He runs off as his "fans" give chase]

Then just bring him back for the end hug. There we go our dragon friend is properly accounted for! 

Ummm...no, just, no.

 

⚠️ Warning ⚠️ 

The following is a rant and contains opinions, don't get you mane in a twist.

Okay? Okay...

I have to say I'm very happy Spike was spared this episode. I'm happy Larson decided to give him a break and let the Mane 6 deal with rabbid fans and have Starlight ignored for once. That's one of the things I like about Starlight, in that she is taking all the stress and idiocy that Spike would have done(heck it was her fault for suggesting that it was not a good idea to have Ember and Thorax over on the same day. And Thorax scolded her twice when she drove his brother away and lead a giant mole monster to the hive) really Spike has had it good for seasons 6 and 7( yes even Triple Threat, he's still close friends with Thorax and Ember, became the Equestrian Ambassador for the Dragon Lands, united the Dragons and Changelings in a friendship coalition and has not been abused for two seasons).

And to answer why he wasn't in the episode, easy. Headcannon, he sensed a disturbance on that day, got horrified when Twilight wanted to make copies of the journal and either,

 

A. Erased all mentions of himself in the journal with white marker or magic.

B. Asked Discord to erase it, in return Discord would choose what to do on the next guys night.

But not wanting to deal with the incoming chaos and possibility that Discord lied and left all mentions of him in the journal anyways, Spike asked for two days off from Twilight, which she gladly gave him. He packed his bags and either..

 

A. Headed to the Dragon Lands to visit his close friend Ember.

B. Went to see Thorax at the Changeling Kingdom.

C. (possibly noncanon, but..) Took a train to Phillydelphia to visit Dragon Town and spend time with his dragon girl friend Mina in the comic shop, Lost a bet in a trading card game to her and had to preform a karaoke song, lets say, "Easy Street".

(And I'm sorry I agree with the comic writer, Sparity is creepy, when a kid crushes on an adult, it's kinda cute, but when an adult starts crushing on a kid...it's creepy! Plus Spike deserves so much better. He has his whole life ahead of him, a couple thousand years to be precise, and dragons and ponies don't mix, the two are different species and this ain't Sherk. And the only reason he crushed on rarity is because there no female dragons around. And before you call me a bigot, no and no, unlike humans, dragons and ponies and two separate species in biology, structure and blood. The writers just need an episode for Spike to just say "The more I think about it, Rarity, is really too old for me. I'll still love her, but as a pal, nothing more. I know I'll find that special someone to share my millennia with, but it's not her, she'll be gone in a hundred." Sorry about that, I really hate this ship)

 

D. Anywhere but Ponyville.

Spike: Let Starlight deal with the crud going on instead, let her cheer them up for once, or all from now on, I've got a life.

Sorry for all that.

overall very happy Spike has  not been used like he was in the past, really he has better things to do then waste time dealing with silly problems the Mane 6 cause themselves.

 

I give the episode 10/10

 

[Truffles 2,033]

Secondly, you've conflated the debate over whether Spike should have resolved the crisis and whether he should have appeared in the episode at all. You write one sentence about how Starlight needed to be the one to fix the problem, then write several more paragraphs why Spike shouldn't be in the episode at all. Those are two completely separate issues. You could have Spike in the episode without him being the one to fix things.

In fact, you start out replying to @KH7672's mini-story with a "No, just no," even though it gives an explanation much like you describe in your following paragraphs as to why Spike wasn't in the episode and says nothing about him being the hero. Reading into your comments further, I don't understand how you can think requiring the audience to come up with excuses for problems in an episode is better than the episode itself giving an explanation.

With that logic, we'd have to give all episodes 10/10 like you gave this one because we can retroactively come up with an excuse for anything that's wrong with them:

Rainbow Dash forgets she can fly and becomes a wimp? No problem.

AJ, RD, and Rarity treat their family and fans like dirt and wreck their carts? Perfectly acceptable.

Spike suddenly can't cook and is a total klutz? We can work with that.

Contractors decide to make stuff on their own when their client comes up with a vague design instead of asking questions? Sure, why not?

 

If a character is going to be omitted from an episode when they should be seen and heard, there needs to be a reason given by the plot. They had time to do so in previous episodes: Spike was off on royal business during Twilight's slumber party. Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy were at a class reunion during "P.P.O.V." For other episodes where certain characters don't appear, it is plausible if the setting doesn't move to where they are located. It was fine that Spike wasn't with the CMC in "Campfire Tales" or with RD and Pinkie in Sonambula. I don't recall anyone bitterly complaining about where Spike was in those episodes.

When it feels like a character should be present but isn't without reason, it undermines an episode's credibility. No episode is so jam-packed that there isn't room for even a single-line explanation.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,151]

Please no name-calling, insults, or public call-outs people.

Thanks.

[heavens-champion 1,893]

The fact the episode that comes after this acts like this episode doesn't happen is pretty funny. It like between episodes, the crowd had a memory wipe and didn't remember what they were doing.

[Will Guide 21,325]

6 minutes ago, heavens-champion said:

The fact the episode that comes after this acts like this episode doesn't happen is pretty funny. It like between episodes, the crowd had a memory wipe and didn't remember what they were doing.

Don't forget that "Mane Thing About You" had its final scene take place months after the majority of the episode!

For all we know, it could have taken weeks for the Unpleaseable TownPonies to finally stop and Then Triple Threat happened.

Besides this show isn't supposed to have an ironclad timeline; it's nice that they leave unknown periods of time between episodes to allow us to imagine what happens during those periods.

[heavens-champion 1,893]

4 minutes ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

Don't forget that "Mane Thing About You" had its final scene take place months after the majority of the episode!

For all we know, it could have taken weeks for the Unpleaseable TownPonies to finally stop and Then Triple Threat happened.

Besides this show isn't supposed to have an ironclad timeline; it's nice that they leave unknown periods of time between episodes to allow us to imagine what happens during those periods.

Right.

 

Edited September 21, 2017 by heavens-champion

[Denim&Venöm 16,464]

Pretty much agree w/ what everypony is saying. The only things I'll offer are the point of them ignoring the crowd. 

I think it was a smart move, as it showed that while criticism is welcome of a creative work, when it's real people sharing their experiences and doing the best they can with their ideas, the real message is to ignore your detractors and do what you do best. It's their problem if they don't like who you are or what you do. Don't let them bring you down. You do you first. 

Also, while the song was nice, it actually sounded like a re-hash of Welcome To The Show. 

[Pastel 7,627]

This is a hard episode for me to rate, because there are a lot of things I liked, and a lot I didn't.

The original idea was very interesting, to bring back those lessons, but I didn't like how it turned out. It was obvious (at least for me) there were many allusions to bronies. Just like Slice of Life, there was a lot fan service, which I hate.

On the other hand, the song and especially the conclusion were amazing. I was a bit disturbed the main problem (the crowd) wasn't solved at the end, but at least those 2 fillies saved the day.

Overall I liked it, but not that much...

Edited September 29, 2017 by Blobulle

[Theknightofdraconia 31]

Just wanna apologize for my comment here, I wasn't thinking straight and it was uncalled for.

[Emem 1]

Personally I have a love-hate relationship with this episode.

In my opinion, (No offense to Larson) the episode was not really well-written. I love Starlight and all but I think Spike should've taken her spot on this one. The CMCs haven't learned much of the "popularity" thing yet. Fluttershy's scenes irritated me for some reason; I don't like the new Fluttershy. While I like the fact that she's become more assertive, she's been using that on the wrong types of situations (like in the latest episode, "A Health of Information," she used her assertiveness by pushing Twilight and the safekeeper of the house away when she needed to rest) I also think the episode needed to cover more stuff than just the mane six, like Derpy worshippers and clashings of Princess Celestia over the so-called "Lunar Republic." Rarity's anguish broke me  I dislike those Rarity haters for saying she was too much of a socialite - Rarity hangs out with unsophisticated ponies and respects them. That is not superior behavior.

But then again this episode was realistic, which I liked. They didn't solve the crowd issue outside by wiping off memories, no, they simply let it go through them. Like they say, "Haters gonna hate." I also enjoyed how Toola Roola was in this, she has a great character design. And Pinkie Pie's part in the "Flawless" song was my favorite, mainly because she's my best pony, and it applies to so many parts in the fandom already.

[Will Guide 21,325]

There's a bit of foreshadowing in the newspaper that Rarity was reading when she overheard her haters talking smack about her: Look at the photo and stars:

It's the Friendship Journal and its rating is 1 1/2 out of 5 stars. A clear sign that the Journal is not as loved as it should have been. Clever little freeze-frame bonus, isn't it?

[grotesque_figure 6]

I totally forgot about the Friendship Journal. It was a nice episode about revisiting the past and addressing some of the criticism MLP had. I disliked how Fluttershy is well . . . no longer shy. She is instantly assertive about everything now. This episode somewhat addressed that problem for me.

I must admit though, the ending sound was incongruous. The situation was so tense. Then everyone suddenly burst into joyful singing, ‘We are not flawless!’ They should have began with the monologues then progress into the chorus. The chorus was also overused. Thankfully, someone noticed this and made exactly what the song should have been: 

 

I also liked how they are finally making episodes were everything does not end up fixed. Sometimes problems cannot be fixed and can only be accepted.

Edited October 14, 2017 by grotesque_figure

[Allen 1,371]

Those background ponies are stressful about the friendship book that was brought for every-pony. But at the end, it went successful for all the mane 6 ponies including Starlight Glimmer herself as well as those two fillies! So I will say this is an excellent episode! 

Also, the song in this episode, it's in D major and B minor (but I thought this song is just in B minor when I hear this first), so that's an excellent song as well! 

[heavens-champion 1,893]

You'd think my first clue that this was a metaphor for fandoms was when that one pony said that Twilight's character would have been more believable if she stayed in Canterlot. Without the subtext, you'd think he didn't know the difference between a work of fiction and a biography. Kinda funny one you think about it.

[Pinkachu 37]

They just released the rest of season 7 past episode 13 on Netflix  PERFECT CHRISTMAS GIFT!

 

(Writing this as I'm listening to it in the background)

Edited December 22, 2017 by Pinkachu

[Sweetriff 21]

This song is my jam! Love this show so much because it always makes me feel good about myself. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Sweetriff

[Barpy 2,225]

Wow, what an episode about the fandom  

[Nye 1,652]

This episode was cool in a sense. It even portrayed real fan backlash within the show. A prime example being “Twilight was better before she got her wings!”

[heavens-champion 1,893]

Soooo.... What what the lesson here? Don't be too critical about flaws?