"Fame & Misfortune" Review/Rant

[Ranky64 31]

MY REVIEW:

I know that everyone loves this episode, but I'm sorry: I honestly despised it. My main problem is that everyone besides the Mane 7 is a complete asshole. The other ponies don't just act a little jerky, they just flat-out insult, berate and abuse the Mane 6. Seriously, a group of ponies openly attack Fluttershy, but these ponies don't deserve my sympathy. Why? Because they don't have it. There's no personality in them besides "act rude towards Mane 6". They don't even show minor characters act like this and show a character development from kind to arguing, they're all brand new background ponies.

Another problem is a huge consistency error. In the episode the Mane 6 publish their Friendship Journal, but at first everyone doesn't care about the lessons but rather about every pony treating the Mane 6 like celebrities, but then noticing flaws and attacking the Mane 6. Here's my plot-hole: The Mane 6 have been celebrities since the 2nd episode of the series! They've defeated tons of monsters and villains, helped Princess Celestia and several other ponies. They are virtually politicians but with more normal lives. If Equestria was the USA then the Mane 6 would be the Cabinet Members of the Twilight Administration. In this episode, they act like the Mane 6 were invisible until the book was published. Not just ponies from faraway places, but NORMAL EVERYDAY Ponyville citizens act like they've never met any of them.

There are a few things that I enjoyed, like the song they played near the end, the few little pokes at the Brony community, and the message, to be fair is very well-thought out. But the message is also a double-edge sword. While it is a good message about not letting fads or popularity get in the way of your life and friendships, but this could have been made much more enjoyable and funny, but instead the main point of the episode is how unlikeable everyone else acts. they don't even learn their lesson! The episode just ends with all of Ponyville just arguing over how "weak and pathetic" the Mane 6 are. Dear writers: Where is the goddamn resolution? Nowhere, you just forgot.

I personally hated this episode, it was incredibly mean-spirited and disgustingly cruel towards the Mane 6. All the other ponies in this episode can go burn in Hell, utter pricks.

[Sorry if this review was ridiculously swear-filled and angry, I just had to get my anger out]

[Hierok 11,829]

You may think what you think. 

I think it was great. The resolution is not there, since this a callback at the fandom. The moral goes like this:

How hard the writers may try, there will always be people who dislike and hate it. So there is not really a solution. 

[Jeric 46,834]

10 minutes ago, Ranky64 said:

My main problem is that everyone besides the Mane 7 is a complete asshole. The other ponies don't just act a little jerky, they just flat-out insult, berate and abuse the Mane 6. Seriously, a group of ponies openly attack Fluttershy, but these ponies don't deserve my sympathy. Why? Because they don't have it. There's no personality in them besides "act rude towards Mane 6". They don't even show minor characters act like this and show a character development from kind to arguing, they're all brand new background ponies.

You do also have to remember that those who were critical of the Mane Six were only one half of the equation. The episode also addressed the blind adoration that some fans have, and at first that doesn't sound so bad, but it turns out to be just as problematic. 

[Marimo 555]

22 minutes ago, Ranky64 said:

In this episode, they act like the Mane 6 were invisible until the book was published. Not just ponies from faraway places, but NORMAL EVERYDAY Ponyville citizens act like they've never met any of them.

Seems about right. Fluttershy is treated with no respect in Putting Your Hoof Down. Twilight's a princess and can't even get a taxi in Manehattan.

22 minutes ago, Ranky64 said:

they don't even learn their lesson! The episode just ends with all of Ponyville just arguing over how "weak and pathetic" the Mane 6 are. Dear writers: Where is the goddamn resolution? Nowhere, you just forgot.

It's not about the unpleasant ponies. In the end it's ultimately about how the mane six have to deal with them, just like real life creators have to deal with obnoxious fans. Most of the time, you can't just talk them out of it or make them go away. Can't even change their minds. So it's by focusing on how they've positively affected others that they can manage to keep going and be glad for what they have accomplished and will continue to accomplish.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Marimo

[ggg-2 3,550]

I agree with this. Not only do the Mane 6 fail at fixing their problem, they don't even CARE they failed at fixing it. I expected better from you, Larson.

[Marimo 555]

13 minutes ago, ggg-2 said:

I agree with this. Not only do the Mane 6 fail at fixing their problem, they don't even CARE they failed at fixing it. I expected better from you, Larson.

So Larson and the other writers have figured out what to do to stop disgruntled and obsessive fans, huh?

[Ranky64 31]

3 minutes ago, ggg-2 said:

I agree with this. Not only do the Mane 6 fail at fixing their problem, they don't even CARE they failed at fixing it. I expected better from you, Larson.

Also, even though I've been defending the Mane 6 a lot here, they're not off the hook with this case. Think about it: all of Ponyville and even ponies from all over Equestria are gathered outside of the castle violently arguing. Twilight's response? "Oh just let them argue". 

Twilight has people fighting outside her castle and she doesn't want to resolve it. THE PRINCESS OF FRIENDSHIP LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

I wonder what that riot outside grew into. What if someone got seriously injured in that massive fight? What if a little foal was killed? What if Ponyville is set aflame in anger? Doesn't really matter, as long as we have our special friendship everything's fine. Also the main moral is totally skewed, as in the next episode everything will go back to normal.

Personally, without a doubt one of the worst episodes of the series with sickening characters and actions that is covered up by a warped message. I see a lot of people saying that "the whole episode's message is around the writers getting attacked by bronies, so your opinion is contradicting it". This is basically saying that if you don't like it, it means you should watch the episode over and over until you respect it. That's like if I made a terrible movie about a director who is abused by critics and kills himself, and the message is don't hate things or else you will upset the creators.

[Photon Jet 5,489]

Or maybe the mob just gave up and went home to continue with their daily lives.

[Marimo 555]

11 minutes ago, Ranky64 said:

Think about it: all of Ponyville and even ponies from all over Equestria are gathered outside of the castle violently arguing. Twilight's response? "Oh just let them argue". 

Twilight has people fighting outside her castle and she doesn't want to resolve it. THE PRINCESS OF FRIENDSHIP LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

I wonder what that riot outside grew into. What if someone got seriously injured in that massive fight? What if a little foal was killed? What if Ponyville is set aflame in anger? Doesn't really matter, as long as we have our special friendship everything's fine.

It is not all of Ponyville. And it's not like she wanted them to keep arguing forever, she just said to let them argue a little longer while they took in their moment. I mean seriously, child murder because they wanted to hug things out a few more minutes?! When you're being hyperbolic, your argument honestly just looks weaker.

11 minutes ago, Ranky64 said:

That's like if I made a terrible movie about a director who is abused by critics and kills himself, and the message is don't hate things or else you will upset the creators.

Or maybe it's something more complex, like it's not that you can either hate something and can do everything to express that hate or not hate anything at all, but that your actions and how you channel that hate can have an effect on others depending on how you act, just like any other action.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Marimo

[Jeric 46,834]

I like to see that moment with the crowd as the Mane Six's Kobayashi Maru. Also, it's reasonable to believe that they finished their hug moment and went back out there with the renewed faith that the kids gave them. 

[Celli 4,332]

53 minutes ago, ggg-2 said:

I agree with this. Not only do the Mane 6 fail at fixing their problem, they don't even CARE they failed at fixing it. I expected better from you, Larson.

Larson had little to do with the episode.

Anyway, I'll quote what I said in the episode thread.

I loved this episode tbh. I'd go so far as to call it my favorite this season. It took some pot shots at the fandom, but so what? 

I've come to realize something in this fandom, and that's that some people can't take a joke and get overly defensive.

[Nerdy Luigi 2,064]

So, you don't see that them being so mean is supposed to be a joke about the fandom being EXCEPTIONALLY PICKY? What?

[Ranky64 31]

8 minutes ago, Barik the Luigineer said:

So, you don't see that them being so mean is supposed to be a joke about the fandom being EXCEPTIONALLY PICKY? What?

But your not fully getting my POV of the episode. Personally, making characters overly hypocritical about things to reference the fandom is funny, but only if limited to a few jokes. Here, the entire episode is just scenes of ponies acting rudely towards the Mane 6, and not just picky, but rather borderline abusive. This kind of episode could work in a cynically comedic show like Bojack Horseman, but not in MLP. And even if it could work in MLP, it just felt really hard to watch. In my eyes, I also thought they somewhat warped the message into saying "were against negative criticism, so if you don't like the episode it means that YOUR picky and hyperbolic, that's the irony".

If you enjoyed it then that's good, but I just thought it was a scattershot attempt to make a dark joke that doesn't work for the type of episode it was trying to be. To give you an example, for me it's kind of like "Putting Your Hoof Down", where it's very mean-spirited. But I feel even that episode had a clear moral, be assertive but don't go too far. Here the message was unclear and unjustified for me.

[Hierok 11,829]

12 hours ago, Ranky64 said:

But your not fully getting my POV of the episode. Personally, making characters overly hypocritical about things to reference the fandom is funny, but only if limited to a few jokes. Here, the entire episode is just scenes of ponies acting rudely towards the Mane 6, and not just picky, but rather borderline abusive. This kind of episode could work in a cynically comedic show like Bojack Horseman, but not in MLP. And even if it could work in MLP, it just felt really hard to watch. In my eyes, I also thought they somewhat warped the message into saying "were against negative criticism, so if you don't like the episode it means that YOUR picky and hyperbolic, that's the irony".

But that is exactly what the fandom is. I don't know if you noticed, but many people are like the ponies there and in an episode that is made to mock the fandom can't have a few jokes, but need to make something clear to us. 

[Ranky64 31]

1 hour ago, Hierok said:

But that is exactly what the fandom is. I don't know if you noticed, but many people are like the ponies there and in an episode that is made to mock the fandom can't have a few jokes, but need to make something clear to us. 

Yes, but in this episode it felt as if the writers channelled the negative side of the Brony community to basically every pony besides the Mane 6. Instead of focusing on a few specific characters and working around that, they go all out and portray everyone in Ponyville as a complete prick. The only ponies who aren't like this are those 2 fillies and the Apple Family. Besides that virtually everyone is just blindly mad about the Mane 6. For me there's no development or transition, everyone is just suddenly bitchy towards the Mane 6. At first I was enjoying the episode, but it slowly went downhill for me. By the time I got to the scene where Fluttershy was publicly abused by those ponies I could hardly watch it, it felt so mean-spirited, and the fact that there wasn't even a resolution ruined it for me.

I'm not saying that a show like MLP can have a challenging message, but personally, it was executed terribly. It wasn't like watching an episode of MLP but rather watching a writer's pet project to get there anger towards specific bronies out. If you enjoyed the episode more power to you, but I just didn't.

[Hierok 11,829]

8 minutes ago, Ranky64 said:

Yes, but in this episode it felt as if the writers channelled the negative side of the Brony community to basically every pony besides the Mane 6. Instead of focusing on a few specific characters and working around that, they go all out and portray everyone in Ponyville as a complete prick. The only ponies who aren't like this are those 2 fillies and the Apple Family. Besides that virtually everyone is just blindly mad about the Mane 6. For me there's no development or transition, everyone is just suddenly bitchy towards the Mane 6. At first I was enjoying the episode, but it slowly went downhill for me. By the time I got to the scene where Fluttershy was publicly abused by those ponies I could hardly watch it, it felt so mean-spirited, and the fact that there wasn't even a resolution ruined it for me.

I'm not saying that a show like MLP can have a challenging message, but personally, it was executed terribly. It wasn't like watching an episode of MLP but rather watching a writer's pet project to get there anger towards specific bronies out. If you enjoyed the episode more power to you, but I just didn't.

Fair, but since you mentioned those two little fillies, I'm going to say something about that. All those ponies before the castle are the negative part of the fandom, which will be much more seen by the writers. The quiter side are much more ponies, but they positive and with much more. That's why you only saw two. The other people who are positive you just don't see, but that doesn't mean that they are not there. This is howvthe writers are seeing it, and you may not like that, but that's reality. 

[SaburoDaimando 1,196]

2 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Fair, but since you mentioned those two little fillies, I'm going to say something about that. All those ponies before the castle are the negative part of the fandom, which will be much more seen by the writers. The quiter side are much more ponies, but they positive and with much more. That's why you only saw two. The other people who are positive you just don't see, but that doesn't mean that they are not there. This is howvthe writers are seeing it, and you may not like that, but that's reality. 

I've seen something similar in the writers of Animaniacs as well, especially with the Please Please Please Get a Life Foundation.  Speaking of which, one obsessed fan of Tiny Toon Adventures kept stalking one of the voice actresses "Tress Macneille."   HIs name is Dennis Falk, and some say he got the show cancelled because of his creepiness towards the actress. You can read some information at http://unpromisedone.blogspot.com/2012/11/meet-dennis-quozl-falk-man-who-got-tiny.html

And honestly, as a Brony, I know I need to remind myself to keep my hype in check.  All out of respect for the cast and crew who are responsible for making this show a reality.  The last thing I need is for this show to be cancelled because of one obsessed fan.

Note: I did meet Tress MacNeille at Comic-Con, and I was at least honored to do so, even asking her if she can impersonate Sarah Palin(Which she did)

[Hierok 11,829]

Just now, SaburoDaimando said:

I've seen something similar in the writers of Animaniacs as well, especially with the Please Please Please Get a Life Foundation.  Speaking of which, one obsessed fan of Tiny Toon Adventures kept stalking one of the voice actresses "Tress Macneille."   HIs name is Dennis Falk, and some say he got the show cancelled because of his creepiness towards the actress. You can read some information at http://unpromisedone.blogspot.com/2012/11/meet-dennis-quozl-falk-man-who-got-tiny.html

And honestly, as a Brony, I know I need to remind myself to keep my hype in check.  All out of respect for the cast and crew who are responsible for making this show a reality.  The last thing I need is for this show to be cancelled because of one obsessed fan.

Note: I did meet Tress MacNeille at Comic-Con, and I was at least honored to do so, even asking her if she can impersonate Sarah Palin(Which she did)

That is really weird. If I was that voice actor, I would put him in charge for that.

You need to respect not only the crew, but everyone.  

[Castle Bleck 19,166]

1 hour ago, SaburoDaimando said:

I've seen something similar in the writers of Animaniacs as well, especially with the Please Please Please Get a Life Foundation.  Speaking of which, one obsessed fan of Tiny Toon Adventures kept stalking one of the voice actresses "Tress Macneille."   HIs name is Dennis Falk, and some say he got the show cancelled because of his creepiness towards the actress. You can read some information at http://unpromisedone.blogspot.com/2012/11/meet-dennis-quozl-falk-man-who-got-tiny.html

 

That just makes it worse -- because that's exactly what all those Ponies did.

 

I don't give a s*** what they were supposed to be a commentary on; the characters themselves kept being borderline-psychos and stalkers (LOL, look at them ruin Rarity's life, gang up on a prone Fluttershy, trespass on Sweet Apple Acres, riot on the property of one of the Princesses (Seriously, no Guards?), etc.! ).

 

At best, IMO, the episode barely managed to squeeze out a 3/5 -- the Mane 7 and that pair of fillies were still completely likable.

 

P.S.: Before someone accuses me of having no sense of humor, meta, etc., I did enjoy Slice Of Life and Stranger Than Fan Fiction quite a lot.

Edited August 13, 2017 by A.V.

[Ranky64 31]

2 hours ago, A.V. said:

 

That just makes it worse -- because that's exactly what all those Ponies did.

 

I don't give a s*** what they were supposed to be a commentary on; the characters themselves kept being borderline-psychos and stalkers (LOL, look at them ruin Rarity's life, gang up on a prone Fluttershy, trespass on Sweet Apple Acres, riot on the property of one of the Princesses (Seriously, no Guards?), etc.! ).

 

At best, IMO, the episode barely managed to squeeze out a 3/5 -- the Mane 7 and that pair of fillies were still completely likable.

 

P.S.: Before someone accuses me of having no sense of humor, meta, etc., I did enjoy Slice Of Life and Stranger Than Fan Fiction quite a lot.

I agree with you 100%.

I'm glad you brought that up so I didn't have to. Although no one here has said it yet, I'm sure that soon people will point out to me "uh, if you don't like this episode's meta humor, that must meaning you hated Slice Of Life and Stranger Than FanFiction, right?". That is not true for me.

Those 2 episodes are some of my personal favorites of the series, and that's mainly because of their meta humor. The difference between those two and Fame & Misfortune is a pure tone difference. Slice Of Life and Stranger Than FanFiction have an enjoyable tone and clear messages: Slice Of Life's message was that everyone has their own life with their own stories, and Stranger Than FanFiction's message is that people can still be friends if they don't like the same things. And they managed to combine the messages with clever humor and enjoyable characters. They had the style that made me fall in love with the series in the first place.

Fame & Misfortune's message is debatable, but for me it felt like "Everyone's an asshole but you won't notice until you become popular, and they will soon act cruel towards you and there's nothing you can do about it". They also shove in a nobody's perfect message in the end that felt out of nowhere. And as I've stated several times before, the other ponies aren't just people who need a friendship lesson, they're unforgivable sociopaths. There's no transition, sympathy or actual heart in the episode. Take the entire message out and it's just 20 minutes of Mane 6 abuse.

I can't even imagine what younger children thought of the message, they were probably so confused by it. I'm sorry but I can't wrap my head around the message because it's not clear, it's just muddled up morals that combine into a nightmare of an episode. It has a negative tone and feels like a warped version of Equestria where everyone is out to basically kill Rarity and take over Sweet Apple Acres. Also, even though I can admit a few of the meta jokes were funny, many other jokes felt lazy and even cringeworthy.

[KH7672 1,604]

1 hour ago, Ranky64 said:

I can't even imagine what younger children thought of the message, they were probably so confused by it. I'm sorry but I can't wrap my head around the message because it's not clear, it's just muddled up morals that combine into a nightmare of an episode. It has a negative tone and feels like a warped version of Equestria where everyone is out to basically kill Rarity and take over Sweet Apple Acres. Also, even though I can admit a few of the meta jokes were funny, many other jokes felt lazy and even cringeworthy.

Okay I'll consider that mindset. I'm a seven year old fan with the only stipulation is I've seen all the episodes. I know nothing of the fandom, I just watch this show for the characters I love.

So now I'm watching my favorite characters be bothered and tormented by the action of just putting themselves out there in book form for these ponies. Oh gosh if my characters get this kind of treatment would the same thing happen to me if I myself out there? Is there something wrong with me that it's so easy to be mean to me? Wait what's this? A song about how having flaws doesn't make me a bad person it's just those people not seeing me for me. Okay I feel confident about myself now to put myself out there agaon but what about those critics? How are my favorite characters going to deal with them? Wait there's nothing I can do? But, huh, hey they found some ponies that do like them and their book. Yeah who cares about those angry ponies my favorite characters are happy because at least somepony understands. I guess as long as some one likes who I am and what I do, I shouldn't let those kind of people bother me.

Tldr: "Who cares, my mom still likes me!" 

[Ranky64 31]

3 hours ago, KH7672 said:

Okay I'll consider that mindset. I'm a seven year old fan with the only stipulation is I've seen all the episodes. I know nothing of the fandom, I just watch this show for the characters I love.

So now I'm watching my favorite characters be bothered and tormented by the action of just putting themselves out there in book form for these ponies. Oh gosh if my characters get this kind of treatment would the same thing happen to me if I myself out there? Is there something wrong with me that it's so easy to be mean to me? Wait what's this? A song about how having flaws doesn't make me a bad person it's just those people not seeing me for me. Okay I feel confident about myself now to put myself out there agaon but what about those critics? How are my favorite characters going to deal with them? Wait there's nothing I can do? But, huh, hey they found some ponies that do like them and their book. Yeah who cares about those angry ponies my favorite characters are happy because at least somepony understands. I guess as long as some one likes who I am and what I do, I shouldn't let those kind of people bother me.

Tldr: "Who cares, my mom still likes me!" 

I actually think you explained the message far better than the episode did. Kudos to you 

As I've stated above, the message is not a bad one. But the way it was overall executed, for me, felt mean-spirited and almost unwatchable in some moments.

[KH7672 1,604]

Just now, Ranky64 said:

I actually think you explained the message far better than the episode did. Kudos to you 

As I've stated above, the message is not a bad one. But the way it was overall executed, for me, felt mean-spirited and almost unwatchable in some moments.

That's totally fine I was just talking about what a kid can get out of it. The mindset and experiences one has in life will easily effect the viewing experience it's just important to remember the different experiences other will have. Trust me I definitely did not see that message on my first experience, too busy with the fandom parallels.

And thanks glad I could execute that seven year old mindset so well considering I'm 21 years old.

[Steve Piranha 28,769]

8 hours ago, Ranky64 said:

 And as I've stated several times before, the other ponies aren't just people who need a friendship lesson, they're unforgivable sociopaths. There's no transition, sympathy or actual heart in the episode. Take the entire message out and it's just 20 minutes of Mane 6 abuse.

.

Well, the thing is, this is how stuff goes down in real life for them. No matter how much dialogue you make, how much you explain the meaning of something, how such thing is not how they think by using logic, etc; the rabid fans will KEEP being rabid fans. You may be disgusted on how those ponies acted, but perhaps you should be used to reflect on the real life rabid fans those ponies represented. I think it was a great representation of that, as being a brony since late 2012, I've seen my share of shit 

[Ranky64 31]

10 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

Well, the thing is, this is how stuff goes down in real life for them. No matter how much dialogue you make, how much you explain the meaning of something, how such thing is not how they think by using logic, etc; the rabid fans will KEEP being rabid fans. You may be disgusted on how those ponies acted, but perhaps you should be used to reflect on the real life rabid fans those ponies represented. I think it was a great representation of that, as being a brony since late 2012, I've seen my share of shit 

I'm fully aware of the rabid side of the Brony community. As I continuously have to point out, I just simply didn't enjoy the episode. It felt like the MLP equivalent of Squidward Torture Porn.