Equestrian Philosophy

[Jedishy 3,549]

In this thread, I want to discuss some of the philosophical and ethical ideas that crop up in each episode of MLP. I might also do various characters and what philosophical concepts or ethical values that they represent. Now I am not a philosophy major or anything so this won't get overly complex but I do enjoy taking some of the lessons in cartoons and turning them into a springboard for deeper discussions which will be the point/goal of this thread. 

 

I hope this has some interest and I will kick this off come tomorrow when my errands are done for the day. 

[Hierok 11,832]

You mean taking some of the friendship lessons be made in deeper context? 

[Techno Universal 2,575]

30 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

In this thread, I want to discuss some of the philosophical and ethical ideas that crop up in each episode of MLP. I might also do various characters and what philosophical concepts or ethical values that they represent. Now I am not a philosophy major or anything so this won't get overly complex but I do enjoy taking some of the lessons in cartoons and turning them into a springboard for deeper discussions which will be the point/goal of this thread. 

 

I hope this has some interest and I will kick this off come tomorrow when my errands are done for the day. 

Maybe my theory of MLP will help with that!

 

[Jedishy 3,549]

9 minutes ago, Hierok said:

You mean taking some of the friendship lessons be made in deeper context? 

Eyup. The lessons, anything I see in the shows, or characters personalities that I feel I can expand on. 

 

Just now, Techno Universal said:

Maybe my theory of MLP will help with that!

 

Thanks. Ill check that out and see what I can do. 

[Sir Warith 130]

Yes and a good example of this being applied is actually in a somewhat surprising place. Fanfiction, I have downloaded and read various fanfiction works on my phone for when I need to be preoccupied offline. I typically gravitated towards the more mature/adult type books and have been pleasantly surprised. A lot of these authors can take lessons from the show and put them into a very gritty and more realistic to life format. I'll try to come up with some examples later that we can talk about it.

[Jedishy 3,549]

Why Fluttershy is a Jedi

 

She might be fearful rather often. But no Jedi is perfect. However, she often controls her reactions and emotions so as not to upset, hurt or scare others. There is no emotion, there is peace. She can be seen to have the ability to control others or at least animals via her stare. Which is a Force power.

 

She shows power when it is utterly needed but never before. It's only when others are in danger that she brings her own force to bear on the offender. There is no Passion there is Serenity. She also has shown that she is a great mediator and reformer via reforming at least in part Discord in season 3. This is a clear sign of the Jedi Consular

 

Her house is outside of the borders of Ponyville proper in the forest where she spends her time communing with nature and its inhabitants. Which is a classic sign of the “old hermit”. But she is not against working with others she just does not need to be in the mix all the time. In short, she is displaying many traits of a Jedi and mediator that I find awesome. Do I mean she is a literal Jedi no not really but the title is catchy and her personality that I have summed up thus far is as far as I have seen it

 

I will update and expand as I learn more.

[Jedishy 3,549]

MLP Friendship is Magic 1 & 2 Philosophy

 

 

The main plot point of this episode is the return of Nightmare Moon. But her banishment and turn to evil were caused by her resentment. Being ignored and feeling unloved by those she served lead to her down fall.

 

This is something we see a lot in any group where a portion of the group becomes the out group or at least feels that they have become so. So it's something we must realize is a danger that resides within us all. And in knowing our own potential failings we can watch for it in other and help prevent these feelings by letting them know they are loved and appreciated even if we dont say it often enough.

 

The episode revolves around Twilight Sparkle being forced out of her comfort zone and into the world to find friends. Further what she thinks she needs ( books ) is not actually what turned out to help her. (Friendship).

 

Both of these concepts are key factors in life. Growth often demands we step outside our comfort zones to move forward. Growth can be frustrating and scary but we must all do it at some point. Lest we become stagnant. Along this path, we might not always get what we think we need even as what we actually need shows up.

 

During this episode we see the Mane Six go into the Everfree forest. In this forest, they face many fears and hardships on the path. Most of these were solved not with a fight but with kindness and understanding of the situation. In the end, even their greatest fear the Nightmare Moon was redeemed via friendship and love not a fight.

 

These are lessons that become hard to face. The first is that the path can not only be uncomfortable but downright scary. But that does not mean we cower down and give up. What we must do instead is like Pinky realize that our fears are often shadows of reality and something to be laughed at.

 

Further, sometimes it's right to fight and stand firm. Such as the original use of the Elements of Harmony that brought down Nightmare Moon. But in reality, kindness gets us much further than anger. Such as seeking the pain of the Manticore by Fluttershy or taking the distress of the water dragon seriously by Rarity. Even Nightmare Moon was not defeated by the use of force but by the love and understanding of her sister. Over all, we can see that you must watch for the fine line between the need for force and the need for understanding.

 

Finally, as the episode concludes Twilight Sparkle realizes that she has found something she never had before, friends and she does not want to leave them. So she is allowed to stay. In this, we can see how sometimes the uncomfortable and even unwanted can take you from one path to another.

 

Did you ever face a time where your own path changed and while it was uncomfortable it lead to something better?

Do any of these other lessons call out to you? Why?

 

I will answer these questions myself and post Episodes 3 and 4 later

 

Boot camp was the biggest change in my path. It was hard and uncomfortable but gave me experiences I might never get otherwise. 

As far as other lessons I have learned that kindness goes far. I used to just clobber people over the head with my logic rather than try to understand them. Now I know that being able to empathize with others does not mean you need be a push over. 

[Jedishy 3,549]

MLP Episode 3 Ticket Master

 

In this episode, Twilight Sparkle gets two tickets to the gala and more than one pony wants to go with her. It appears that somepony is going to be very unhappy no matter what she decides. Which is a reality in life. Sometimes there are no good choices. Sometimes no matter what we do someone is going to be unhappy or left out. This is ok and just something we must deal with

 

As the episode goes on her friends start to do favors which make her uncomfortable and really start to put pressure on her to make her choice. They know what they are doing is wrong as you can tell by the fact that they get guilty when they are called on it. But this is something that a lot of good people fall prey to. Desire, however, can push even the best of people to act foolishly even as they regret it.

 

The best response to such pressure is shown in this episode as well. When our values and actions are in question sometimes we need to stand firm and say no even if it is to a friend. Even more importantly we must realize sometimes the right action is no action. As is shown by her refusing to make a choice that could hurt somepony and just sending back the tickets instead.

 

Our final lesson of this episode is that lack of communication can create problems and knowing when to speak up can solve a lot. Had Twilight thought to ask for more tickets she would have had them in seconds and this whole mess could have been avoided.

Have you ever made such a mistake?

 

I have learned that Halons razor is a great way to avoid such a mistake this razor states “ Never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance.”

 

 

MLP Episode 4 Applebuck Season

 

This episode focuses on the idea of taking on more than you can chew. In it, Applejack decides to take on the task of harvesting her families entire farm when her brother is injured. However, it swiftly becomes clear that she has taken on a bigger job than she realized.

 

Worse she fails to plan her schedule with gaps for emergencies that she might need to handle and even forgets to account for many other commitments she has. This leads to her not taking care of herself to a point that she is passing out at random times.

 

Had she listened to her friends and learned to say no rather than accepting every request for help she got things might have turned out differently. Though in the end, she learned to accept help and things turned out ok. However, it might not have turned out so well if she had held out any longer. She could have lost crop at best and at worst gotten hurt or ill due to her disregard for her health.

 

So what lessons can we take from this? That we need to accept our limits and learn to say not at times. Further that when we commit to things we need to leave gaps for emergencies that might crop up. We also need to know how and when to stop and take care of ourselves no matter how big the job or we put our health at risk. Finally, accept help there is no shame in it.

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by Jedishy

[Guest]

This can sure be interesting, as long as you can find stuff worth of philosophical value there, which you can, since anything can be rather "philosophical", all depends on the person reviewing the thing.

[Jedishy 3,549]

22 minutes ago, Niko said:

This can sure be interesting, as long as you can find stuff worth of philosophical value there, which you can, since anything can be rather "philosophical", all depends on the person reviewing the thing.

Any thoughts on my posts so far 

 

[Mirage 24,774]

MLP's plots are really not deeply philosophical, but much more psychological (friendship is superlative with respect to other high purposes, such as knowledge). When I try to apply my philosophy knowledge, there isn't much to adhere to, unless the discussion veers into the theory of the Equestrian World Building, which is the framework that the stories and characters move in (what belongs, what does not). MLP is, in my opinion, built on an Epic Fantasy template. And what makes this interesting is that fantasy can explore philosophy and psychology side by side without much effort since just about everything is an obvious metaphor, or a combination of them. MLP wisely emphasized psychology over philosophy because it is generally more relatable.

Most of the lessons deal with egocentricism of some kind. Our personal pride is the primary reason for behavior such as lying, cheating, manipulating, depression, anxiety, etc. Sometimes, the lessons deal directly with fear, which is a firmly established plot strategy in fantasy (thus, big scary monsters and overwhelming odds). Fear and ego often go hand in hand as the mind attempts to avoid hard work and/or suffering or death (when we fear something bad enough, we make excuses to delude that fear - ie, sour grapes).

Twilight Sparkle therefore becomes the quintessential 'reluctant hero' in Episodes 1 & 2. The reluctant hero is a powerful character that has at least one tremendous fear, and guess what, the story challenges that fear from the start. Twilight enters the tale as a knowledgeable, curious, motivated and powerful unicorn (she literally rides into Ponyville on a golden chariot). However, this powerful unicorn is afraid of making friends. And as the story goes on, especially when put up against the main threat (when reality really sets in), Nightmare Moon, she also begins to fear she isn't powerful enough. So after overcoming the initial challenge, another one manifests. And while we were thinking that making friends seemed kinda trivial and childish for a powerful unicorn, we later learn that forming friendships was the only way she could have defeated the main threat, Nightmare Moon. So the hero is not only rewarded with a victory and good friends by overcoming her ego and fear, the viewers also feel satisfied that their initial doubt about the interest and meaning of making friends was later overturned by magnitudes (oh, you were so wrong in your perception!). And not only that, at the very end we are given a poignant glimpse of Equestria's past and main purpose that was hinted at the entire time - Celestia and Luna. The world building (philosophy) and characters (psychology) are tied together effortlessly. And so I don't think it was any mistake that Luna's jealousy (pride) made her into a dreadful monster, and that Celestia's humility in trusting little Twilight with the Elements of Harmony achieved ultimate victory. This my friends is good story telling.

Anyway, we all know what happened psychologically. She overcomes her fear of friendship by dealing with the humiliation of having to expose her weaknesses and her pride to others (for example she didn't like it so much when Spike took all of Fluttershy's attention and couldn't hide her anger) and finally, with the strength of her new friends, she overcomes her fear and doubt of her ability. The real purpose of the stories therefore, are very close to the inner workings of our emotions and our values. Making and keeping friends is hard work, and requires a tremendous amount of courage and sacrifice. Philosophically we learn that Equestia hangs in a magical balance, and that the Mane Six are now wrapped up in truly epic destiny, as embodied by Celestia and Luna who quite literally move the cosmos. And that even for such godly beings, friendship is still the deepest concern of their being, as revealed by Luna's reconciliation. This I think helps to show how sober philosophy and psychology agree on something, and that is, humility is the greatest feat of intellect, whether it deals with resolving what it inside or outside.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jedishy said:

Any thoughts on my posts so far 

 

They're good. Not going too deep but also making good sense of what they could mean. Did you rewatch these episodes recently or how do you remember them so accurately? 

 

[Jedishy 3,549]

1 minute ago, Niko said:

They're good. Not going too deep but also making good sense of what they could mean. Did you rewatch these episodes recently or how do you remember them so accurately? 

 

Oh no my memory is good but not that good. I am rewatching the episodes and writing bullets for a short write up. As far as not going too deep you are right. I avoid that for two reasons the first is that I do not wish to go so deep as to make this bland or boring for some. The second is that generally when ethics, psychology or philosophy get deep they tend to end up talking in circles that have slight deviations but all really say the same thing. Which is something that makes me wanna scream. I hope others enjoy this as I intend to do the entire series 

[Mirage 24,774]

2 hours ago, Jedishy said:

Any thoughts on my posts so far 

 

By not going deep, you risk repeating what is already known. That is, if the lessons have to be explained then they weren't very good lessons! Digging deeper is food for curiosity...nothing more.

Let's look at Ticket Master. Aside from what you already illuminated, there are deeper lessons and psychology at work in this Episode:

1) The rather frightening and embarrassing manipulations the 5 did to win over Twilight's favor. The quick and thoughtless fall into selfish obsession was absolutely freaky - and realistic.

2) Did Celestia intend to cause a little trouble with two tickets? I think perhaps she did. What was she trying to do?

3) Entitlement is essentially a dangerous attitude. This behavior affected all of them, from different perspectives, especially Twilight.

[Guest]

Just now, Jedishy said:

Oh no my memory is good but not that good. I am rewatching the episodes and writing bullets for a short write up. As far as not going too deep you are right. I avoid that for two reasons the first is that I do not wish to go so deep as to make this bland or boring for some. The second is that generally when ethics, psychology or philosophy get deep they tend to end up talking in circles that have slight deviations but all really say the same thing. Which is something that makes me wanna scream. I hope others enjoy this as I intend to do the entire series 

That's some dedication right there. Best of luck to you mate:D

[Dark Horse 12,966]

Hey there @Jedishy!

As this topic is discussing episodes and subjects related to FiM, I've moved it over to Show Discussion.

Thanks!

[Magic_Spark 154]

What everyone can see is that the show is based off of human experiences. The characters are personalities that are human designed. Its why we relate to them. 

Now with that point aside. The main take from the show is this. These characters through their lives are destined to learn about love and bonding friendships. The lessons are all the same from that perspective. They all point to the person who is not behaving properly and how they are changed through friendship and love from another. In reality this works when we have no other issues that prevent this. Unfortunately we have things that cause people to be mean and nasty even if you show them kindness and love. So the people who gravitate to the show are more likely to be friendly and can be good people than the rest of those who shun the show. In my experience I miss the love and joy companionship gives. When its not there its like there is something missing. A good friend fills that void.