S07:E15 - Triple Threat

[Will Guide 21,325]

Just now, Mesme Rize said:

You imply that characters need to be cutboard cutouts of their personalities at all times, or else they are OOC. Normal people like you and me can have many different emotions overtime, because we grow and the same goes for these characters. Besides, We only saw Thorax 2 times in the series. You can't tell me that you already know how he is supposed to behave.

OOC, is one of the most terribly overused criticisms ever.

You're right about that, @Mesme Rize.

Besides, Fluttershy "learning the same lesson over and over" is really her taking baby steps towards being a better pony. She even said it herself at the end of Filli Vanilli. Not everyone goes through character growth in one episode. Just like real people in real life, everyone grows into better people at their own pace. Some take a few minutes, some take years. It's all subjective and that's how the world works.

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

1 minute ago, Eggy0 said:

Not sure how I feel about this episode, though I liked the part when Ember talked about how Starlight and Twilight are very alike - quite possibly nodding to some people's accusations of Starlight being a Twilight clone (even though they do have quite the differences).

I also felt really sorry for Spike when he was angrily ditched and then later told by Thorax and Ember how upset they were (though they did the latter to feel better and they did forgive Spike), can't tell whether that was too harsh or genuinely deserved since Spike, as a friendship-oriented character and a relatively young one at that, was scared of indirectly causing a war (which sometimes is a genuine fear, but other times it's way overblown). All I know is that had I been in his place at the moment they ditched him, I'd be crying my eyes out and probably even lock myself away out of distress and feeling intense guilt before they'd come back to tell me (again) how they're really angry at me for keeping them apart given the fact I'm such an emotional fool who can barely handle any forms of anger (and that includes my own), especially if it's directed towards me. Hell, if they'd come back to tell me about their anger and found me wailing in a corner, I would likely attempt to block any attempt of them trying to communicate if they exhibited any signs of anger and/or trying to express it verbally.

The lesson to be learned is a good one though. Basically, don't worry so much or focus on the bad stuff, but instead try thinking about the positive outcomes! Being the aforementioned emotional fool, this is something I too struggle with sometimes.

I agree. Very relatable lesson! I remember I was scared something bad would happen to my friend and reacted almost the exact way as Spike. I had to learn not to focus on the bad. 

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

Just now, Dark Qiviut said:

This is Owl's Well done better.

1. Spike is portrayed negatively, but the portrayal isn't just there for plot convenience. He helped lead and create a massive, extravagant celebration party for Ember, but made a careless mistake to invite Thorax to Ponyville on the same day. He put a lot of time in it, so when something goes wrong, he worries that he lets Thorax, Ember, and his title down. As a result, he created a friendship problem. Yeah, it does have some cringe comedy, but because he was worried things will go wrong and wants it to go right. He put a lot of pressure on himself.
2. Thorax and Ember are really cute and funny here. Despite being leaders of their respective kingdoms, they still have conflicts to resolve.

So far, not one of my favorites nor near the season's best. Yet, compared to last week's atrocity, it's much better.

What grade would you give it?

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Ok, I call this a success! Spike is ambassador, he started another alliance unintentionally, and he was summoned by the map! I say this was great!

Not better than the season 6 episodes. I expected it to be much better, but it was pretty awesome for what it's worth! 

I really hope this isn't his ONLY episode this season! Give him Uncommon Bond, please?

Thorax talked about his renegade changelings, so I guess this means Spike is going with Starlight and Trixie to the Changeling Kingdom? I mean, they're doing the reforming, but I think he'd want to hang with Thorax to make up for this.

[Dark Qiviut 22,160]

Just now, VG_Addict said:

What grade would you give it?

Too soon at this point.

One thing's for sure, it won't get an F.

[ggg-2 3,550]

Another thing I found interesting: before the changelings were referred to as a hive, but here they're a pack?

[Truffles 2,033]

11 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

This is Owl's Well done better.

1. Spike is portrayed negatively, but the portrayal isn't just there for plot convenience. He helped lead and create a massive, extravagant celebration party for Ember, but made a careless mistake to invite Thorax to Ponyville on the same day. He put a lot of time in it, so when something goes wrong, he worries that he lets Thorax, Ember, and his title down. As a result, he created a friendship problem. Yeah, it does have some cringe comedy, but because he was worried things will go wrong and wants it to go right. He put a lot of pressure on himself.
2. Thorax and Ember are really cute and funny here. Despite being leaders of their respective kingdoms, they still have conflicts to resolve.

So far, not one of my favorites nor near the season's best. Yet, compared to last week's atrocity, it's much better.

"Owl's Well" has been easier for me to watch after S6. Before that, seeing Twilight turn her back on him with all the other stuff that happened to him in previous seasons was just too much.

Here, Twilight and Starlight are completely supportive and even help Spike pull off this scheme to keep his two friends separate. It's what you'd expect friends of his to do for him and not blow off his concerns.

I have to say, however, I got a bit of that bad "Owl's" vibe when Ember and Thorax berated him for assuming how they'd behave. I suppose it's more believable, here, though, since Spike had been ditching the two of them all afternoon. They were likely a little peeved at being treated poorly by their host.

And nothing is ever going to touch "A Perfect Pear" for best episode this season. 

Just now, ggg-2 said:

Another thing I found interesting: before the changelings were referred to as a hive, but here they're a pack?

I guess because they look more like deer now? Though they should be called a herd then... 

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

Okay, seriously, at this point it's like the writers saw all the comments about how we never see Starlight in episodes that aren't about her and decided to just throw her at us. I'm so happy right now, she had another great showing in this episode. 

Unfotunately, Spike did not. In fact, he barely seemed to get any screen time at all, pretty disappointing if this is in fact his only episode this season. Ember and Thorax kinda stole the episode from him. That doesn't keep the episode from being good, but I feel like I need to watch it a few more times to get a feel of how Spike really did this episode.

Spike getting called by the map is simultaneously one of my most and least favorite things in the episode. On the one hand, we get to see Spike called by the map! On the other hand it is easily the worst part of the episode, as it actually makes the situation worse by putting even more pressure on Spike. It doesn't even make sense the map would call on him if he's the one causing the problem, we've never seen the map used that way. 

Overall, I liked it. It's not the best, but it's nowhere near as bad as it could have been, and this is still an episode I would enjoy watching again.

[CaptainDoubloon 856]

Coco Crusoe talked for the first time!! The episode was pretty good too. I don't have much to say about it for the moment.

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

After today's episode, should they not make any more Spike episodes?

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Just now, VG_Addict said:

After today's episode, should they not make any more Spike episodes?

VG, quit it! Spike's far from done with his arc! This was a good episode, and I'll be damned if he's not getting any more this season, let alone for the rest of the series!

[Sly 236]

Just now, VG_Addict said:

After today's episode, should they not make any more Spike episodes?

Not my problem as I'm done with MLP after this season and the Movie regardless. Althought I gotta say, while I still liked the episode, it wasn't certainly thanks to Spike, and... it doesn't feel quite good to leave his character on this sour note, but I guess I can't do anything about it. 

[Smitty1038 53]

I did not much care for this episode at all. It was exactly what I feared it was going to be: Spike being regressed to an idiot. This plot could have easily been fixed by establishing that relations between the dragons and Changelings were tense, which could have easily been the reason why Spike wanted to keep Ember and Thorax away from each other. Easily the best part of this episode was Ember making the comment of how Starlight and Twilight were alike to each other. That bit and her confusing the two was funny. Other than that, this episode was terrible! Here I was hoping that after how well Spike was handled in season six, Spike would be handled better as a character from then on. This episode effectively crushed that hope. The concept for this episode was great, but, oh, boy, was the execution terrible! Calling it right now: this is the worst episode of the season!

Perhaps the worst part was the fact that the map called Spike. As one user already pointed out, not only does this out more pressure on Spike, it makes absolutely no sense. There was a rhyme and a reason behind the map calling ponies. From my understanding, the map calls ponies based on whether or not their magic affected it. (This is why Trixie is called to solve a friendship problem in "To Change a Changeling.) Spike being called by the map was completely random and came out of freaking nowhere!

Edited August 19, 2017 by Smitty1038

[Amys-pmvs 431]

This episode is awful how dare ember still muffins from derpy. 

Aslo spike is part of the cutie map? BULLSHIT.

Thorax was adorable though...

[CypherHoof 26,479]

5 minutes ago, Smitty1038 said:

I did not much care for this episode. It was exactly what I feared it was going to be: Spike being regressed to an idiot. This plot could have easily been fixed by establishing that relations between the dragons and Changelings were tense, which could have easily been the reason why Spike wanted to keep Ember and Thorax away from each other.

I agree. Starting from a standpoint of a long standing, almost ancient feud between the old, unreformed changelings and the former dragon lord could have "fixed" this episode fairly easily, giving Spike, Starlight and Twilight a reason to keep the two apart; the scene with the bear then would have been resolved in pretty much the same fashion - both leaping to the defense of their friend, only to find the other was doing the same thing; both upset with Spike that he had such poor understanding and trust, and then settling their differences and returning to make peace with Spike too.

But that said, I am finding more sympathy with spike after some reflection; not freaking out and making bad decisions is the Lesson Twilight Cannot Learn, so it isn't unreasonable that Spike has picked up the bad habit. Your suggested alternative would be better though, given how often Spike is the voice of reason in the Twilight/Starlight world.

 

5 minutes ago, Smitty1038 said:

Easily the best part of this episode was Ember making the comment of how Starlight and Twilight were alike to each other.

Yeah. imagine this though:

SG: I don't have wings though, and Twilight does, that's an easy way to tell
Ember: you don't have wings? oh, I am so sorry, that must be terrible for you
TS: Give it time...... wings have to be earned

and the fandom explodes.......

 

 

[Will Guide 21,325]

1 hour ago, Hierok said:

No far worse then leans in. Spike was just treated as thrash here. There was no reason that they didn't like each other and he only thought: Well, two different species can't be friends. I liked that the map called him and the starlight = twilight from Ember. 

And Thorax was cute as hell on that chair. You would like that @WiiGuy2014 

I disagree very strongly with the "treating Spike like Trash" He was handled a lot better than "Princess Spike".

But I do agree with the map and ESPECIALLY Adorkable Thorax on the chair thing. 

C. Will here: That's another reason why I love Thorax as a Friend. 

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

Spike/Ember/Thorax is my new OT3.

[Truffles 2,033]

I don't know why, but the scenes with Ember claiming Twilight and Starlight are the same tickles my funnybone, especially this part when they start wearing each other's expressions:

Look out Twilight, next thing you know ponies will start thinking you and your student are siblings! 

[DonMaguz 1,023]

Good episode, it reminded me of Too Many Pinkie Pies for it's general structure.

I still don't care about Thorax that much, but it's still a good support for Spike (and now Ember).

Ember was hilarious, I think the writers did an awesome job showing her first visit to Ponyville.

Twilight and Starlight were good support, but it bugged me that they didn't try to get Spike back to his senses like he did for Twilight on Celestial Advice.

I think that Spike being called by the map was unnecessary, the problem was already on its tracks and they had already pull out a few excuses for Spike to bounce over Ember and Thorax, it felt like they just wanted to show that Spike is not being left behind as one of the friendship council.

The episode is clearly not one of the best this season, but it isn't the worst either, it gets a 7/10 for me.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

I liked it, I liked it a lot, not my top of the season or anything, but really solid. Ember and Thorax remain amazing characters, Thorax especially. I don't get the complaints about Spike, Ember may not be like all other dragons, but she is still a little more aggressive and both Thorax and Ember command massive armies, and we saw what happened with the Yaks.

He didn't really do anything that wrong aside from assuming they wouldn't like each other.

I would give the episode an 8+/10 (initial rating, subject to change) 

I imagine that the little renegade pack thing was a foreshadowing of To Change a Changeling, which is awesome, I love little build up hints.

Even though it was meta humor, I found Starlight and Twilight having issue accepting they are alike very interesting, almost like they have some resentment left over from when they were enemies, could make for an interesting episode.

[Hierok 11,829]

1 hour ago, Truffles said:

There's no way this is worse than Fluttershy Leans In. That episode was boring in addition to having writing flaws. This one was hilarious. Also Twilight and Starlight were complicit in enabling his fear of the two of them not getting along, so there is at least a logical reason for him to act this way. Also it's so over the top it did achieve my goal of Spike having a "Lesson Zero" moment.

I agree though his character took a step back from how he's behaved since the first two episodes this season and all of last season. But I'm willing to live with that to see him go off the deep end at least once. And there wasn't really a lot of Spikeabuse, if any - most of the problems he encountered were imaginary and in the end nothing really bad happened to him.

Well, Fluttershy leans in is one of the best of s7, so this is worse. Aside from a couple funny lines, this episode just makes Spike looks bad.

35 minutes ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

I disagree very strongly with the "treating Spike like Trash" He was handled a lot better than "Princess Spike".

But I do agree with the map and ESPECIALLY Adorkable Thorax on the chair thing. 

C. Will here: That's another reason why I love Thorax as a Friend. 

True, but he was in every episode better handled then here. 

[Amys-pmvs 431]

Ember must pay for stealing from derp horse

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

2 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Well, Fluttershy leans in is one of the best of s7, so this is worse. Aside from a couple funny lines, this episode just makes Spike looks bad.

I disagree that Spike looks bad. Spike never had an experience like this before, and for all he knows, the stakes were high.

It's weird how well received Lesson Zero was considering it made Twilight "look bad" Seems to be another example of the fandom having higher and higher expectations.

[CypherHoof 26,479]

Just now, Amys-pmvs said:

Ember must pay for stealing from derp horse

I agree, this means war, such an insult to our Empress cannot be borne...

[Amys-pmvs 431]

Just now, CypherHoof said:

I agree, this means war, such an insult to our Empress cannot be borne...

It was bad enough that pinkie trow pizza at derpy but stealing muffins from derpy? YOU MUST DIE.