S07:E15 - Triple Threat

[Victoria Sponge 1,014]

I liked the meta part where the show acknowledged that Starlight looks a whole lot like Twilight.

[JH24 385]

I still don't understand why Twilight and Starlight went along with Spike trying to keep Ember and Thorax busy. It felt a bit weird they both would accept Spike's fear of Ember and Thorax not getting along. In a way, shouldn't Twilight and Starlight have apologized as well? They were part of the plan to keep them separated almost as much as Spike was. 

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by JH24

[Thrond 3,257]

2 hours ago, VG_Addict said:

Would you say the episode undid Spike's development in S6?

Maybe a bit, given he's not as dignified, but I always liked Spike episodes and found "Gauntlet of Fire" a touch bland, so I'm not all that bothered by it. Wish this were a bit more sophisticated, like "Equestria Games" but funny.

That said, this wasn't that far from "Inspiration Manifestation" or "The Times They Are a Changeling," two of my favourite Spike episodes, in that it emphasizes Spike's anxiety and uncertainty in a stressful situation. He's under a lot of stress and is given responsibilities which he has little experience with or preparation for. I don't think that's some massive regression.

But then, I never felt he massively progressed either; people are surprisingly prone to underrating his season 4 focus episodes. 

[FizzyGreen 908]

So, i liked how this episode tackled an issue that is often present when people make wrong implicit assumptions about their friends. It happend to me and it tackles the "not saying things" issue my former very good friend has. To not say things and keep them implicit or even unconcious.

So, i don't see any flaws in spike, as he assumed wrong and that was the first time for him having to really plan things like that. I mean, remember: He is a baby dragon.

 

I pretty much like the episode because it seems... well, it seems natural. Nothing really seems forced and all around just like, the characters ARE in character and yeah, the problem was solved well.

 

I like it

1 (again, a/a = 1 c:)

[Truffles 2,033]

47 minutes ago, FizzyGreen said:

So, i liked how this episode tackled an issue that is often present when people make wrong implicit assumptions about their friends. It happend to me and it tackles the "not saying things" issue my former very good friend has. To not say things and keep them implicit or even unconscious.

It is interesting that the premise of this episode is like the flip side to "Maud Pie." There, Pinkie assumed her friends would just get along great with Maud, which wasn't the case. (At least not till much later, and only perhaps with Rarity.) Here, Spike assumes the opposite in that he assumes his friends won't get along. The lessons aren't the same though - in the former, the lesson is it's OK if not all of your friends are going to become besties with one another, as long as they all share the bond between the friend in common. Here, it's not to assume the worst. The interesting part is how they managed to get different lessons out of a similar premise.

[Zachary 5,517]

I really Like this Episode.

I really like it when The Cutie Map called Spike

I'll give this Episode 8/10

[Music Chart Fan 818]

Overall, I might describe this as a middle-of-the-road episode. The upside is that many of the character interactions are enjoyable. Thorax is likable in his kind of earnest goofiness and awkwardness. Ember can be a bit offputting when she's yelling in others' faces or appears to be (actually) threatening them, but she has many amusing moments too, including her mixing up Twilight and Starlight, her putting up with others hugging her, and her dry observations about how ponies make friends. It's nice to see Twilight and Starlight supporting Spike in his attempt to keep Ember and Thorax apart yet entertained, and Twilight's and Starlight's interactions with Ember and Thorax are enjoyable. My main issue is that there are a fair number of plot points about the episode that seem dubious, even if hand-waving explanations can be found for many of them, and the cumulative effect is that the overall plot feels a little too questionable and belabored.

To start off, there are a few things about the set-up of the episode that seem somewhat questionable, although some explanation could perhaps be made for them. First, Spike seems to have no recollection at all of inviting Thorax to Ponyville, even after seeing Thorax and Thorax's reminding Spike of his invitation. When Twilight worriedly asks Spike whether he invited Thorax on the same day as Ember, Spike sheepishly responds "apparently". On the face of it, inviting Thorax to Ponyville seems like a rather big thing for Spike to forget about to this extent, although I know that that can happen. Next, Twilight says that "according to Ember's letters, the dragons are trying to be friends, but competing is in their nature, and it's leading to more and more fights", which is why Ember is seeking advice. Does that mean that attempting to be friends is leading to more fights than usual? I'm trying to think how that would happen. Would they normally tend not to interact, but trying to be friends leads to more interactions, which then break down into fights? Finally, Thorax's problem of getting other changelings under his rule to respect him is understandable, but I'm not quite sure why he wants to ask Spike specifically for advice on that. Wouldn't he have better chances of getting useful advice from another leader, like Princess Twilight, or, perhaps even better, Princess Celestia or Princess Luna? Thorax may be pals with Spike, but I'm not sure that Spike has too much knowledge or experience to help with that particular problem.

However, the above issues aside, the biggest driver of conflict in the episode is probably the belief that Ember and Thorax need to be kept away from each other. The apparent stated basis for Spike's fear that Ember and Thorax will hate each other, even to the point of starting a war of dragons vs. changelings, is that...the two of them have different personalities and hence "might not get each other"? Global leaders in our world often deal with other leaders who have major differences of opinion or personality (to put it mildly), and usually manage not to start wars in the process. And many viewers of the show argue that Equestria is, if anything, a nicer place than the real world. But then I guess we don't know how much dealing peacefully with other societies dragons and changelings have done, if any. Is the concern that Ember would get offended by some unintentional slight from Thorax (or someone else) and call the dragons to war, with the dragons just doing as the Dragon Lord commands without question? Could Spike (and others) talk Ember down by telling her that that's not what friendly people do (which is what she came to get advice for in the first place), that that would cause needless death and destruction, etc.? So, again, there could be some basis for this fear of what would happen if Ember and Thorax were to meet, but it seems to require some debatable extrapolation from other observations in the episode, above and beyond the stated rationale.

There's also the whole sequence of events around the Cutie Map calling Spike, and the eventual resolution, to consider. To start off, my best guess is that the Map called Spike at the moment at which Spike's friendships with Ember and Thorax were being imperiled by his lack of attention to them. But then, Spike's being called by the Map leads him essentially to blow off Ember and Thorax some more while he goes out to find the friendship problem. I might think that the first candidates for "people in Ponyville with a friendship problem" would be Ember and Thorax, who both came to Ponyville to seek advice on dealing with (essentially) friendship problems, but it doesn't seem that Spike, Twilight, and Starlight see it that way.

Later, when Spike is listening to Thorax's long-winded explanation of his problems, Spike doesn't seem to pay much attention or think of any advice to give Thorax because he's still too busy worrying about finding the friendship problem. Even if Spike believes that there's a friendship problem that he has to solve elsewhere in Ponyville, is there any particular reason to believe that it needs to be found and solved as soon as possible, i.e., that Spike couldn't take care of Ember and Thorax first and find the problem in a few hours? Previous friendship problems which the Mane Six (or Starlight) were called upon to solve seemed to involve significant time to travel to the location and find them first, so we might think that the friendship problems identified by the Cutie Map aren't super-urgent.

Next, with no active intervention on Spike's part, Thorax and Ember happen to meet, but the actual friendship problem is exacerbated when the two of them leave upset by Spike's unintentionally offending them. However, after the two of them work their own problems out with each other and seek Spike out, Spike "fixes" the friendship problem with Thorax and Ember by explaining himself and asking them for forgiveness. After all of that, I can't help thinking what would have happened if the Map hadn't called Spike at all. I guess Spike might have attempted to split his time between Thorax and Ember, perhaps not really helping either of them, and maybe leaving both of them with lingering resentment toward Spike for not devoting his full attention to them and not ultimately solving their problems. And if Ember and Thorax never talked to each other, then they wouldn't have helped each other find the actual solutions to their problems. So I suppose the Map's calling Spike did probably help more than hurt with fixing Spike's friendships and finding solutions to Ember's and Thorax's problems, but it did so in a very convoluted and roundabout way.

Now for the rest of my miscellaneous observations:

Spike says he's "pretty sure" that dragons don't like flowers, but what is that based on? Are they too effeminate or not "tough" enough? If so, couldn't that reasoning also apply to the brightly-colored balloons (including heart-shaped ones), ribbons, confetti, etc.?

When the trumpeters play the entrance fanfare right at Ember, and she doesn't like it, is she on the verge of actually attacking one of them when she's interrupted by Spike? Or was she just doing the intimidation thing? I might have questioned why the trumpeters and other residents of Ponyville run away screaming from Ember shortly after that, considering that Ember is supposed to be the guest of honor, but then, if she might attack them at the slightest provocation, maybe they're justified in doing so.

Was the "official friendship welcome banquet" for Ember prepared in advance for her? Or was that just food that was lying around that Spike threw together in a hurry? Could Spike have anticipated that Ember might not eat the food itself? I don't know if the other dragons have ever eaten "pony food", since it doesn't seem like they would have traded for it or made it themselves.

When the Cutie Map called Spike, at first I thought it was the call of the Dragon Lord issued by Ember, similar to the one that called Spike to the Dragon Lands in "Gauntlet of Fire".

When the Cutie Map first appears back in the opening episode of Season 5, Spike's chair isn't seen as contributing to making the Map appear, although Spike is sitting in it when it happens, so I don't know if we can say that Spike has been on the "call list" of the Cutie Map all along.

When some curious ponies gather around Ember in town, and she announces her title and does a fire-breathing display, I'm not sure why, in that case, the ponies run away screaming in fear. I could see it being surprising, but it seems fairly clear that Ember isn't attacking them, and her display looked to be safe, as far as I can tell. I might find it pretty cool if I were there, although that might partly be due to my "fire is cool" instinct.

Thorax and Ember spend several seconds charging at each other, even though they were maybe a few yards apart to start with.

Ember tells Thorax that "there's nothing to be unsure of", because he's the leader "for a reason". But then, what is that reason? He was different than the other changelings, he ended up on the mission to stop Chrysalis, and he was the first changeling to share love, but (as many of us thought of at the time) that doesn't necessarily mean that Thorax has good leadership skills.

Finally, Ember's advice to Thorax seems to boil down to telling Thorax to back up the rules he's enforcing with an implied threat of violence if they're not followed, i.e., letting it be known that his decision is final, and turning into a bear if that doesn't work. But I think the moral (and perhaps even practical) legitimacy of that tactic depends on the rules being enforced. For example, if Thorax is enforcing rules stopping widely-agreed-upon crimes, then the use of force to stop those crimes would be justified. Thorax's main stated problem is a renegade group of changelings who still feed off of love, rather than sharing it. In the world of Equestria, if the love on which these changelings are feeding (presumably without permission) can be said to be the property of those who produce it, then the changelings' feeding on it could be seen as theft, and enforcing a rule against that, by violence if necessary, would then be a justified prevention of a widely-agreed-upon crime.

[FizzyGreen 908]

27 minutes ago, Truffles said:

It is interesting that the premise of this episode is like the flip side to "Maud Pie." There, Pinkie assumed her friends would just get along great with Maud, which wasn't the case. (At least not till much later, and only perhaps with Rarity.) Here, Spike assumes the opposite in that he assumes his friends won't get along. The lessons aren't the same though - in the former, the lesson is it's OK if not all of your friends are going to become besties with one another, as long as they all share the bond between the friend in common. Here, it's not to assume the worst. The interesting part is how they managed to get different lessons out of a similar premise.

Oh, true! I didn't notice that, but you're right!

Well, even better! 

[ImpctR 155]

inb4 "Horrible Episode Because Spike was the napkin of the episode that everyone could wipe their feelings with".

I noticed the episode would be with Spike and Ember and I thought with other dragons but it wasn't a draconian episode. Meaning, I didn't expect Thorax and this was a pleasant surprise.

So this is an episode where Spike is called by the Cutie Map. This must be the first time a non-pony is called after SG, the first non-Mane6 was called. It was suggested that  the map now could call others, I think.

Overall, I find this probably from the best ambassador episodes so far, better than 'Not asking for trouble' and much much better! So, it was a nice episode, such a relief after the controversial previous episode or few. I find Ember really cool, I like her attitude and Thorax, is as we know the goody Changeling. An interaction with all these would make more than an average episode.

Was Starlight needed? Yes, her encounter of Ember was interesting, we know she has met Thorax since 'times they are changeling' onward. Plus she is the third pony to be in the castle when Twi and Spike are somewhere. I chuckled over Ember calling Starlight and Twi similar and it is realistic from dragon perspective to not find differences as foreign species.

Spike, whether he is presented good or not in the episode, here was half the hero half the napkin or the shoe sole that all would use as they want, he has always been the jester of the episodes to me, It never bothers me how he is presented lol.

 

 

Spoiler

 

A war between the Dragons and the Changelings might not have ended well for the Changelings but I like the proposed idea. The confrontation between Ember and Thorax was interesting but I like Ember way more and her eating the wall of the castle made of crystal was cute.

New ship Ember - Thorax? Why not, I like, Spike is too little for her and like I said, he is like the drain of others feelings and stuff, that's his role in the series, face it.

I loved the convo Bon-Bon Lyra and that Lyra spoke again, yay cute as always! \

Not super duper but an episode relief, 5/5 after the last episode was so wrong.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by ImpctR

[Sonic5421 423]

I think for me, this was a great episode. Not only do we see the return of Princess/Dragon Lord Ember and Thorax, but Spike sure has a vivid imagination when he pictured a war between dragons and Changelings leading to Armageddon for Equestria. Plus, it is interesting that because of his worry about Thorax and Ember meeting face-to-face, he essentially forced the Cutie Map into assigning him a friendship mission to ensure he repaired his friendships with Ember and Thorax.

As for Ember and Thorax, it is interesting that both leaders were having difficulty with their new roles. Despite Ember having taken her father Torch's place as Dragon Lord, many dragons were living in shame and sadness when they lost the dragon competitions due to the pride and boasting of those who won. Thorax may be leader after helping to oust Chrysalis, but there were those Changelings who remain loyal to their former Queen and refuse to accept Thorax and the rest of the Swarm's way of life and final metamorphosis.

After both leaders told off Spike for his lack of helping them and went off to speak to each other in private, it allowed them to work through their problems together, come back to confront Spike over his actions and have him apologize for his behavior, and it made their friendships stronger than ever, not to mention now making the Changelings and dragons allies instead of enemies like Spike first feared, so now Ember is more than willing to aid Thorax when Chrysalis returns for her revenge on Starlight, and possibly the Mane Six and Royal Family if she still aims to attain that vengeance as well.

This episode earns a 10/10 from me.

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

Why do I get the feeling that most of Spike's episodes from now on are gonna revolve around his friendship with Thorax and Ember?

[powerpuff-tsubasa 447]

This episode was very great to watch. I liked how Spike attempted to solve a friendship problem involving Ember and Thorax who are different species. It is sad how the right character gets bashed by friends, but they still got to cool it down sometimes. 

I also liked how Spike's spikes flashed

[Driverscissors 75]

12 hours ago, Truffles said:

I figured because they were all already on edge over Ember and Thorax being together, they didn't want to risk triggering her over her eating the castle. At least if I was in that situation, I'd avoid the conflict with a fire breathing dragon especially if the castle repairs itself or can be easily fixed with magic.

But that brings up another point - was I the only one slightly put off by Ember's lashing out at anyone who disagreed with her? Granted, this is only her second appearance so it may be this is just who she is. But I didn't think she'd trigger so easily upon being pointed out when she's wrong. 

Hmm, maybe.

And i'll blame ember's defensive attitude over the fact that dragons are naturally aggressive (Apparently) and that friendship is still new territory for her, her opening up and expressing without aggression is new for her.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Driverscissors

[Batbrony 15,994]

Good evening everypony, and welcome back to another edition of "Batbrony Reviews"!  Wooh, goodness gracious me was this episode a breath of fresh air!  Now, do not get me wrong, this whole season has been incredibly exceptional, but sometimes you need a break from the incredible.  What exactly do I mean?  Well... to be blunt, the last five episodes have ranged from very exceptional (in "Not Asking for Trouble" and "Discordant Harmony") to divisive for very good reason (in "Fame and Misfortune") to among the most amazing showings that MLP has ever had to offer (in "A Royal Problem" and "The Perfect Pear", my new personal favorite in the entire show).  I don't think we've had stretches of awesome this consistent in a season since Season 2, and I kind of forgot how exhausting that can be sometimes.  Make no mistake, I have adored every minute of Season 7 (with the exception of the unfathomable awful that was "Hard to Say Anything"), but the show can't be amazing every week, and sometimes we just need a break with a really solid, flat out good episode that is very Slice of Life in nature.  Although it features two very unusual main characters we've rarely seen on the show, I fully believe that "Triple Threat" is exactly that, a solid Slice of Life offering that was just, all around, good.  That's it, just good, and it's fine being just that.  This shouldn't be a terribly long review at all, so without further ado, let's dive right in.  This is "Triple Threat"!

WOOOOOOOOOOOO, SUPERHERO LANDING!!! 

So, curiously enough, this was our first Spike-centric episode of the season.  How does it hold up as far as Spike episodes go?  Eh, alright.  I've seen Spike written far worse in the past, but some of his character here did feel a touch OOC, even if the reasons for his behavior were understandable.  Spike had a ton of responsibilities to juggle here, starting with (1) welcoming Ember to Ponyville, (2) welcoming Thorax to Ponyville after he realized he'd invited him there on the same day, and (3) solving a friendship problem that arose in the middle of their visits.  Between playing ambassador to two visiting leaders of their respective people as well as solving a friendship problem which was unknown to him, Spike certainly had plenty to juggle.  My beef with how he was written, though, was that about halfway through the episode, when he learned he had a friendship problem to solve, he seemed to (1) not consider at all that it might have something to do with Ember and Thorax and (2) forget altogether that the visiting monarchs should probably take precedence over the friendship problem.  Granted, I get what he was doing: from the start of the episode he was trying to keep everything organized in a manner he'd learned from Twilight, by keeping plenty of lists, but that all went to shit when Thorax showed up and sent Spike into a panic.  He probably figured he'd have all the time in the world to GIVE to Ember and Thorax once he solved the friendship problem.  The problem is that he kept going out of his way to avoid Ember and Thorax in the course of trying to solve really simple "friendship" problems that were really just little disputes or spats, which seemed a bit off for Spike, even a really panicky one.  Dude's been around long enough to know how to properly prioritize what is and isn't most important to address.  The episode redeemed how it treated Spike a tad in my eyes at the end when it turned out that not only was he the one who created the friendship problem in the first place (which I thought was really clever), but the one who needed to learn a lesson as well (though I have no idea why that means he was the one who was glowing, and not Ember or Thorax considering they were the ones who solved the problem), but still, he was a bit frustrating at times.  That said, the state of panic he was in the whole time was pretty hilarious (especially his "you've gotta be shitting me!" face when the friendship map summoned him), and Starlight's own schadenfreude-like amusement directed toward Spike at one point very much summed up the amusement I myself got from how everything was working out for him.  Hardly the worst Spike episode ever, but not exactly a great or even good one, at least not for Spike.

The best part of the episode has got to be, hands down, Ember and Thorax (arguably the true main characters of the episode as well).  This was Thorax's first truly regular appearance, if we're being honest, since his debut episode; he was a largely supporting player in the Season 6 finale (mostly there because the plot demanded it, even if he was perfectly fine), and he barely had anything to do at all in the Season 7 opener.  Here, he had an actual problem that needed resolving (which may even come up again later in the season if the episode title of Episode 17, "To Change a Changeling," is anything to go by), and even better it was tied to his role as leader of the new, reformed changeling pack (as an aside, I do find it a bit odd that they're not calling it a changeling hive anymore, but rather a pack, but whatever, doesn't bug me too much).

Awwwwww yeah, cute deer bug pony loves da fire, he loves it so, so much!

Ember too, in her first appearance since her debut, was just as pleasing to see.  Like Thorax, she had a leadership problem that needed resolving as well, tied into her own people, the dragons.

There were two things that worked especially well with these two.  One was that they brought back the most endearing qualities the two characters had last time: Thorax was the same old adorable softie/deer bug pony he's always been, happy to share in as much love as he possibly can, and Ember was once again the most tsundere character the show's ever had, and on top of that she also had a ton of hilarious and adorable cultural misunderstandings going on with the ponies (the best being her eating Twilight's dining room - literally - and destroying Derpy's poor muffin in a misguided attempt to display friendship, both of which were just the best of a ton of hilarious cultural missteps in her interactions with the ponies).

OK seriously, they could not make this deer bug pony more adorable if they tried!  Though I do have to ask... how long, exactly, is his bucking neck???

The other was that these two worked out their own issues themselves, or rather, with each other!  Yeah, in a bucking awesome turn from the show's usual formula of having either (1) the Mane 6, (2) Spike, (3) the CMC, or (4) Starlight Glimmer solve some kind of friendship problem, two supporting characters solved their own problems simply by talking and interacting with each other.  In fact, they were both quite well suited for helping the other; Ember knew that Thorax needed simply to be taught how to be a more assertive leader and what he needed to learn to do so, while Thorax knew how to teach Ember to be more open about her feelings with others.  Hell, they probably bonded quite easily since they were both leaders; they wanted Spike's help first and foremost, but frankly, it makes sense that that might be a bit much for the little guy.  As much as he's gone through, he's still a baby dragon, and while his heart may be in the right place, I wouldn't say he's a leader, at least not yet.  Frankly, Ember and Thorax were just better suited for teaching the other what they needed to learn, and when they finally did, they had a great dynamic together.  I loved that once they realized what misunderstandings had just happened that they both started acting like the adults in the room, like everypony else was acting ridiculous (frankly, their being kept apart can't just be put on Spike considering Twilight and Starlight thought it was the best move too).  Overall, loved these two here, and would honestly love to see more of them going forward.

D'awwwwww, deer bug pony just can't get comfortable! 

Ember literally eating Twilight's castle is far cuter than it has any right to be...

Besides these two main elements, the rest of Ponyville (as should be the case in any good slice of life episode in this show) was pretty much a character in and of itself, including in Twilight and Starlight (although they were supporting characters, they barely contributed to the resolution at all, so really most of what they did was initiate plot direction and gags throughout the episode).  For their parts, Twilight and Starlight were pretty hilarious as they haplessly tried to keep Ember and Thorax apart (though while I understood why Ember was more interested in seeing Spike than those two since they're both dragons, I was a bit confused why Thorax wanted to see Spike more - he may be closer friends with Spike than the others, but friendship isn't an issue with him and I would think he'd know he should take his issue to another leader, not Spike of all ponies or dragons).  Their funniest bit was easily when Ember bluntly pointed out how similar they look and even behave, a joke which both felt like it was poking fun at the "all you (blanks) look the same" line applied in a number of racial jokes as well as a tad meta even, considering many fans have drawn parallels between Twilight and Starlight, and they are quite undeniable considering they are teacher and student after all.  The background ponies had a ton of bits in the episode, possibly their most this season; Lyra and Bon Bon got into an argument that Spike helped resolve, there were cute and funny bits with Ponyville residents all over the place as part of the celebrations for Ember's arrival (I loved that they were all very receptive of both Ember and Thorax, though they were understandably terrified of some of Ember's more aggressive displays, intentional or accidental), some background ponies argued over a chair for some reason (WAY more aggressively than they needed to), and of course, poor Derpy's muffin meeting its untimely demise against a wall on account of Ember... rather than of course meeting its demise, as it should have, in Derpy's belly.  And overall it was just a lot of fun seeing two characters like Ember and Thorax just a bit out of their element in a town like Ponyville, but the rest of the town still going about its business as usual; frankly, a dragon lord and a changeling pack leader are probably hardly the strangest things these ponies have seen by this point.

"You ponies all look the same."

DAT'S RACIST, EMBER!!! 

All in all, like I said, this was just a good episode.  It wasn't great, it wasn't bad, it was good.  The lesson that Spike should have just told Ember and Thorax about each other right away, rather than simply assumed they wouldn't get along, is a VERY standard lesson (made only clever in the sense that Spike was the one who had to learn the lesson, rather than teach anything), though it did set up a delightful joke about how ponies are always just telling each other what friendship lessons they've learned (once again, another fun bit of meta humor).  But as I said before, I'm perfectly OK with this episode just being good.  I don't need every episode to blow my socks off, otherwise they wouldn't be special to begin with.  And hell, I don't even need most episodes to be very exceptional, or at least so bad or divisive that everybody is talking about them.  GOOD episodes, just solidly good, are the bread and butter of this show, and we need bread and butter for sustenance as much as we need the delightful decadence that are treats like "The Perfect Pear."  The fact that this show's "good" is far more delightful than the average of most other animated shows of a similar nature is a credit to the high level of quality we've come to expect from MLP by this point.  So yeah, overall, I very much enjoyed this episode for what it was, and that it didn't pretend in the slightest to be anything that it wasn't, and rather embraced being exactly what it was: a GOOD episode of MLP.  That's all I've got for ya this week, everypony, until next time this is Batbrony signing off.  I'm off!!! *cue dramatic exit*

That "I just watched a good episode of MLP" feeling...

[Will Guide 21,325]

@Batbrony

The parts with Thorax are the best parts to me. 

1. His talk with Ember near the lake about being better leaders.

2. The fact shy and unsure Thorax would go "large bear" to protect his friend.

3. The bits and pieces of his story to Spike about the renegade Changelings and his brother. (Good, so his brother's existence won't just come right out of left field in "To Change a Changeling")

4. The many expressions on the guy's face.

5. Every time I see him, both before and after his Kingly metamorphosis, I love the Love Stag Beetle more and More!

[Dowlphin 459]

OK, let's see. A secretly-entertaining-two-guests story. Not sure whether we had that before. Watching it didn't leave me with enough energy to investigate.
The problem became visible quite soon, too.
In such episodes that can be difficult to watch because so formulaic, especially for a season 7 ep, the little things provide the contrast. Spike exclaiming: "Fighting! Yes!" was very funny, and also Twilight's extreme portrayal towards Ember, or the reaction to the claim she is so much like Starlight.
I just personally don't enjoy this story archetype easily.
It did advance the character stories though, so that became the main driving purpose.

I found it personally disappointing that Ponyville folk is scared of pink fire breath.  I mean, seriously, how much nicer can you make a searing wave of air? Sneezing cotton candy? ... OH HEYYYY! IDEA!

What I found really good stuff was how Muffin Murderer  - I mean Ember - had difficulty telling Twilight and Starlight apart. Might seem absurd to us, but it happens in interspecies relations or even interracial. One is being used to facial features and general appearance of one's own kind and less used to distinguishing detail of others. That might have been hinted at here. Ember has a different perception, calibrated to dragons. Although execution in detail would then leave some questions, since Ember remarks how colorful everything is in Ponyville, indicating that she does have good color perception. Hm, maybe she just has trouble distinguishing different hues of purple. Hmmmm, but Twilight has wings and Starlight hasn't. OK, forget all that, I think she just has an attention deficit.

The coffee cup scene and possibly others before in the show indicate that the sun is traveling across the sky, really making me wonder why Celestia has to raise it in the morning if it's moving on its own anyway. I think this is just inconsistency and I find it a bit sad when Equestria is assimilated too much to our world's ways instead of celebrating the differences. (Twilight or Pinkie eating flowers seemed a rare case from long time ago underlining their... ponyness? Equinity? )

The charge scene between Ember and Thorax was so ridiculously time-warped that it has to be called a parody, but it didn't quite click with me. Probably reminded me too much of Naruto, LOL.

In essence, the topic of this episode was, again, severe neurosis. Don't we love our neurotic Equestrians? (Must be something in the water, considering Ember and Thorax acted refreshingly natural.) But it also showed how focus on positive outcomes can help with that.

The whole complex of lessons that emerged is beautiful though because in order to solve the friendship problem, Spike was prompted to change himself. He experienced the cause first-hand, him being the problem. So the message is that we create a better world by bettering ourselves and that being a teacher also means being a student.
And then Ember and Thorax help each other solve their problems, so this episode towards the end severely gained 'meaty bits'. Spike then learned, which should relate him to Discord, that sometimes you can be a more passive influence, less controlling, just a catalyst for bringing about the solution through crisis. Problems are teachers and people can assume that role. That's OK, too. ... As long as you don't make it your purpose in life, right?

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

Now that Spike FINALLY has a role in the show (Friendship ambassador), where does he go from here? I think it could lead into more development for him.

[Guest]

It was pretty good. Glad to see more of Thorax and Ember, since we haven't heard much about them. I really wanna see how the Changelings are adapting though... 

Just now, VG_Addict said:

Now that Spike FINALLY has a role in the show (Friendship ambassador), where does he go from here? I think it could lead into more development for him.

Hopefully so! I wish we got an episode where Spike himself visited both of them, especially Thorax.

[Bricks_Ahoy 860]

Another meta episode? Seriously though, this was a fun episode. I never knew mr. Hamilton can pull off such a funny one. I especially loved the parts where Ember confused Starlight with Twilight. So, how is the ship named? The Thorax x Ember. I will call it Emberax.

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

HOLY DRAGON WAIFUS, BATMAN!

Oh, hey, and look who's back!  It's STEVE!

I like Steve.

 

So, I had that eyeroll feeling when I read the premise.  Why would Spike be so paranoid about Ember meeting Steve?  I mean, she was there to meet ponies.  It's not that different.  Most ponies are pretty sweet and timid compared to Ember.  I mean, for Celestia's sake, wasn't Fluttershy probably going to meet Ember at some point?  Spike didn't seem concerned about that.  How is Steve any different?  But whatever.  The common sense switch was in the Twilight position today.  Anyway, I ended up really liking the episode anyway.  And best of all, it took place in the real FIM universe, not the Donnie Darko tangent universe!  Yay!

Good episode.  Lots to like.  I really like seeing the struggles of Ember as she tries to figure this friendship thing out.  I think it's interesting and useful to see an outsider who doesn't understand this friendship stuff try to muddle her way through.  But she's trying, y'know?  She's trying and learning, and that's great thing.  I really like Ember.  She's good people, y'know?  She is surprisingly reasonable and open-minded for having been raised in such a competitive and aggressive culture that's so different from pony culture.  When she started eating Twi's castle (that sounds so funny, doesn't it?), I thought back to when the Yaks destroyed tons of sh*t around town, which pissed me off.  But Ember's castle eating didn't annoy me, and the reason is because it was an honest mistake.  She's never been to a pony town before, and doesn't know what the buildings are made of.  The rest were made of wood.  Twi's castle is oddly different, so Ember just honestly thought that Twi had decorated it with her favorite food.  After all, they did decorate the entire Ponyville Square in Ember's honor, so it was an understandable mistake.  The yaks, on the other hoof, were just colossal a**holes who didn't give a sh*t about accountability.

Anywho, the only thing that bothered me was the suspicious absence of the other 5.  Wouldn't Spike have wanted Ember to meet the others?  I figure it was just a time constraint thing, and they didn't want to spread themselves too thin by cramming too many characters in, but couldn't they just have a quick introduction scene?  A few seconds where Ember says hi to the others?  It just bugs me when characters are suspiciously absent, but that happens a lot on this show.  Like how every horned pony was suspiciously absent from Buckball.  Well, except Snails, but you know what I mean.

Other than that, it was great.  I really loved how Steve said that there are rogue changelings that still being jerkwads.  This actually goes a long way for me, because it's unrealistic that all of the changelings would have gotten on board with the whole neon-Bambi thing immediately, and this really helped to cement the realism.  I do hope they develop this a bit more.

Oh, I almost forgot about the Daemon (the map).  How could I forget that?  It was most unexpected that Spike finally got called by the Daemon.  A lot of people have probably been hoping for that.  Well, I guess it just proves that it has nothing specifically to do with cutie marks.  And it kind of makes sense that that could happen to a dragon, because we know that the Dragonlord can text any dragon and make them light up, so I guess the map "knows" how to do that as well, which proves that dragon texting isn't a solely innate dragon ability.  It can obviously be harnessed by other magic, which leads me to believe that a pony might be able to learn how to do the same thing, and make dragons light up.  (That could be the ultimate troll, if you think about it.)  This also furthers my headcanon that the Daemon was designed by Starswirl, and it was probably designed to be able to learn and adapt.  I think the map is essentially an AI.

Lastly, I thought it was absolutely hilarious that Ember couldn't tell Starlight and Twilight apart.  That made me laugh out loud, hard.  I'm not sure why I found that so funny, but it just was.  It was just hysterical and kind of....adorable somehow.  And I feel like it pokes fun at the fact that the ponies all share the same basic model, and also the fact that fans talk about Starlight basically being Twilight #2, or Mini-Twilight, as Trixie so brilliantly put it.  Ember was just like, "C'mom, can you blame me?  You're basically exactly the same character!"  See, that's the kind of fun-poking I love--the kind that doesn't rip apart the fabric of space-time.  :/

On 8/19/2017 at 9:11 AM, CypherHoof said:

It wasn't a terrible episode, but it was quite predictable - and painted Spike in quite a negative light.

That said, Both Thorax and Ember were awesome in this episode, its a shame Spike had to be made a buffoon to set up that situation.

Yeeeahh....that's exactly the feeling I had about Spike.  So often it seems like a character has to be made a buffoon to set up the conflict (and it usually seems to be poor Spike.)  If I put on my thinking cap, I'm sure I could come up with a way to do basically the same episode, but without Spike having to temporarily jettison his common sense.  But I thought it turned out pretty well, anyway.

[Dowlphin 459]

On 20/08/2017 at 5:47 PM, Battenberg said:

I liked the meta part where the show acknowledged that Starlight looks a whole lot like Twilight.

That's not meta. We see them just as differently as they see themselves. It's just Ember that has a different perception. Very different from ours. So there's nothing seemingly hidden to point out. I never thought they look similar. (Would also cause problems since ponies have few distinguishing elements due to the show's visual style. So every detail becomes a lot more relevant and present.)

[Victoria Sponge 1,014]

4 hours ago, Dowlphin said:

That's not meta. We see them just as differently as they see themselves. It's just Ember that has a different perception. Very different from ours. So there's nothing seemingly hidden to point out. I never thought they look similar. (Would also cause problems since ponies have few distinguishing elements due to the show's visual style. So every detail becomes a lot more relevant and present.)

I think it was a small acknowledgement because Starlight is clearly based off Twilight, both purple, both have highlights in their mane, both have a similar cutie mark even their names are similar: two kinds of night time light (starlight and twilight) and then two words for twinkling (sparkle and glimmer). They're both unique enough to be separate characters in voice and personality and style but since Starlight is on a similar journey to the one Twilight was on it's clear why she is similar. Sunset Shimmer was a similar case, less similar in design being warm colours rather than cool but still has a similar name and a two tone hairstyle.

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

Will Ember be mentioned in To Change A Changeling?

[Thrond 3,257]

3 hours ago, VG_Addict said:

Will Ember be mentioned in To Change A Changeling?

Could go either way. Hard to predict the future.

[Jangocoolguy 433]

Changeling vs. Dragon, coming soon to SyFy!

...no wait, scratch that. It's too good. 

Go figure guest characters would steal the spotlight from Spike in his own episode. Not that it took much...

The premise is one that's been done to death in countless other kids shows & cartoons, along with several sitcoms. Done better too. So I can't say I was happy with it. Especially since Spike was a total idiot about it. It's even worse that he did one stupid, thoughtless, borderline counterproductive thing after another. Also not happy that the map choice him of all people to solve a friendship problem. Twilight thought it was reaching out, I thought it was being desperate. Especially when there was a friendship problem he was right in the middle of, but couldn't see the woods for the tree. Heck, he didn't solve crap since Ember and Thorax worked it out themselves...

I'm especially annoyed about him and Thorax at the cafe. The fact he clearly wasn't listening is bad enough, but you'd think getting changelings to stop feeding off love would be a fairly high priority. 

Now that I got the bad parts of of the way, time to talk about the good with Thorax and Ember

They pretty much saved this episode and made it (much) better than it should've been. Ember was a lot of fun thanks to her clueless-ness about ponies and being a tsundere. Likewise, I for one appreciate her not being able to tell Twilight and Starlight apart since Starlight is essentially a Twilght knock-off at this point (though how does one mistake pink for purple). On the flipside, Thorax was his usually sweet, dorky self. Spike was worried about their extremely different personalities making them hate each other, but it actually made a good pairing. (I think I can hear them over in the shipyard ).  

Another case of a subpar episode premise made better by some good characters.