Jump to content
Banner by ~ Ice Princess Silky

Why do the writers at disney have problems creating good villains these days?

Mesme Rize

By Mesme Rize, Readers

 Share

Recommended Posts

Mesme Rize

Mesme Rize

disney_villains_wallpaper_by_disneyfreak

If you're like me, you also enjoy great and charismatic villains and Disney imo has some of the best, not just in animated movies but movies in general.

But something is bothering about Disneys current movies. Whatever you like their movies that they have created this decade or not (Still like Moana more then Zootopia BTW :P ) There is one thing that i always don't like about the current Disney Movies. The villains just flatout suck.

Mother Gothel from Tangled was the last great disney villain in my opinion and that was way back in 2010. All the other villains where forgettable at best, with Te Ka from Moana and Bellwether from Zootopia being one of the worst i have seen since Alameda Slim from Home on the Range.

Do you also think Disney has lost his touch with their villains?

 

  • Brohoof 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
PiratePony

PiratePony

Hans is an awesome villain. Tamatoa, though not the main baddy, was great. Te Ka serves an important purpose and wouldn't have worked as a bwah hah evil villain.

  • Brohoof 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mesme Rize

Mesme Rize

  • Author
1 minute ago, PiratePony said:

Te Ka serves an important purpose and wouldn't have worked as a bwah hah evil villain.

That's my problem with Te Ka. Te Ka is not a villain. Te Ka is a plot device that is used as a villain, eventhough she has no personality whatsoever.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Will Guide

Will Guide

(edited)

@Kaa

(Can you respond to this when you can? I seemed to have missed you again when you brought up something Disney-related. *sigh* I hate when this happens)

Hey, good time to bring this up:

This video WILL contain spoilers up to Moana, but it does give some insight!

I even left my thoughts on the subject in the comments there on YouTube:

I agree that while Disney Villains nowadays are not as great as the ones from the 90's and earlier, I still think it's okay.

Besides, the main conflict our heroes have to overcome doesn't always have to come from a villainous person. Elsa's real foe isn't Hans, for example; it's her own fear of hurting others with her ice magic. 

Hans did provide a good example for Anna to learn from about being too open with a stranger as she jumped into a relationship too quickly with a man who took advantage of her eagerness for company after Anna's been lonely without Elsa for roughly 13 years.

Once again, this is an awesome editorial that provides insight, a discussion that looks at different POV's on the subject, and a little history. This episode might now be within my top 5 Nostalgia Critic Editorials! Thanks, Doug Walker.

Edited by WiiGuy2014
  • Brohoof 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Megas

Megas

Because they're focusing all their effort on Kylo Ren now

 

Seriously though I do agree, their villains haven't been as memorable as they used to be, with Mother Gothel being the last good one(though admittedly I have a soft spot for Turbo) most of the villains nowadays kinda suck, I still remember Hans being really lame, and the teacher from Big Hero 6 was so fogettable I can't even remember his name

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TBD

TBD

(edited)

Yokai would had been a good villian, if it wasn't for his motive... If he wants to save his daughter so badly, he really doesn't need steal the micro bits and cause destructions to do so.  He could have just.. i don't know, ask?...jeez dude.

Now he got what he want thus, the yokai is no more. Although since BH6's the series is coming, i hope someone else will pick up the suit and micro and undergo as a new Yokai. 

Hans was a pretty good "villain", although i wouldn't just drop the label "villains' on him, since he technically represented the realtics facts how monarchy was like back in the days. Moreover, his intention were.."well you can't blame him for doing what he did" kind of situation. Ignored by his brothers and his father hardly acknowledge him basically Hans might have a potential to be reform in they bring him back for frozen 2. 

While Tamatoa represent the old classic villian and ta ka is the "villian" who didnt mean to become one which lead to make a good story build-up. 

Overall, it's not like the Disney villains have gotten "worst," it's more like they have gotten more relatable to the audiences instead of "I'm a villian because I'm evil"

Edited by TBD
  • Brohoof 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ivan The Adorable

Ivan The Adorable

(edited)

Well, the deal is that animated stories of the modern era are shifting focus more heavily onto character arcs and don't rely as much on the hero/villain conflict as the main vehicle of the hero's triumph.

Even when a plainly evil villains appear, they're often more reflections of the path the protagonist could have chosen that leads to ruination.

Ex:

Tangled: A selfish, manipulative mother figure prey's on Rapunzel's naivety and tries to make her lose her positive attitude about the world, also contrasts Flynn who has to overcome his own self-absorption

Big Hero 6: A genius overcome with grief is consumed with his own misery and turns it against society. An obvious mirror to the boy dealing with the loss of his brother and the struggle of whether he uses his grief to make the world better or turn to vengeance himself.

Zootopia: A corrupt politician uses polarizing fear to seize power, as the protagonists struggle to overcome their own baggage to effectively work together

 

Another part of it may be a phase of getting away from the over dramatic villain style, which has become a bit of a joke when it is presented these days. But I think stories in which villains are less clear and looming exceptions so much as the viciousness of ordinary people reflects on moving to an understanding of a world where we confront "evil" in this fashion more often.

Edited by Ivan The Adorable
  • Brohoof 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cmarston1

cmarston1

(edited)

To be perfectly honest, I don't really mind this very much.

 If the price of Disney having their main protagonists be compelling and given interesting characters arcs would be for them to create less interesting villains, I see that as a fair trade off.

Edited by cmarston1
  • Brohoof 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mesme Rize

Mesme Rize

  • Author
On 19.10.2017 at 4:22 AM, WiiGuy2014 said:

@Kaa

(Can you respond to this when you can? I seemed to have missed you again when you brought up something Disney-related. *sigh* I hate when this happens)

Hey, good time to bring this up:

This video WILL contain spoilers up to Moana, but it does give some insight!

I even left my thoughts on the subject in the comments there on YouTube:

I agree that while Disney Villains nowadays are not as great as the ones from the 90's and earlier, I still think it's okay.

Besides, the main conflict our heroes have to overcome doesn't always have to come from a villainous person. Elsa's real foe isn't Hans, for example; it's her own fear of hurting others with her ice magic. 

Hans did provide a good example for Anna to learn from about being too open with a stranger as she jumped into a relationship too quickly with a man who took advantage of her eagerness for company after Anna's been lonely without Elsa for roughly 13 years.

Once again, this is an awesome editorial that provides insight, a discussion that looks at different POV's on the subject, and a little history. This episode might now be within my top 5 Nostalgia Critic Editorials! Thanks, Doug Walker.

Okay, first of all i want to disagree with doug that Dr. Facilier and Mother Gothel aren't quotable villains, as i like both of them. :P

Now, i can understand where he is coming from and i think it all has something to do with what i said over a year ago, when i saw Zootopia for the first time being kinda unwhelmed by it. I am much more of an old school disney guy.

I don't say that disney movies today are horrible, i actually really had alot of fun with moana. But i guess i kinda like the more emotional approach with disney then the logical approach. This is not just a thing with me and disney but also most of fantasy in general, because i love fantasy movies and animation is a good way to present fantasy.

I appreciate the fact that Disney wants to put in more development into their leads, as i agree that some of their old main characters where very bland. But isn't there a way to make it both work, having a fun and relatable main character while also having a fun and evil bad guy? I know some may find the good vs. evil trope boring and cliche, but i personally like to think that even the smallest can change the fate of the world.

Do i disagree what Doug says? No. I just think the way we want to see our disney villains and movies is different.

  • Brohoof 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
Dreambiscuit

Dreambiscuit

In some ways it's nice that Disney, who never does anything outside of the cliche playbook, actually diverts a little from what we've come to expect. I liked that Bellwether just kind of came out of the background and surprised the audience as the one pulling all the strings. Hans was an unexpected surprise that we expected to be the heroic love interest of Anna but ended up being a rotten, self-serving SOB. 

On the other hand, I completely agree that, while these new characters are textured, fresh and interesting, they're not as fun to watch as the great classic old school villains like Maleficent, Crualla DeVille, Captain Hook, Ursula and so many more. 

I guess what I'm saying is that there's room for different approaches to these kinds of characters, and hopefully Disney will keep a balance between the two rather than going all one way while completely forgetting the other.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites
StormBlaze

StormBlaze

Moana didnt really have a villain. Just a corrupted Goddess, which isnt really that big of a threat. more like  a natural disaster type thing. Bellweather was a plot twist type villain, but she just didnt really bring that much of a presence, which is why you say she's weak. I agree with previous posts saying that Hans from Frozen is one great written villain. That one line "If only there was someone who loved you" just broke everyone. 

Im sure we'll get some more good villains soon. Its more because the great bad guys are from fairy tales and folklore, which havent been done since Frozen.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jeric

Jeric

I think that Moana had one of the best villains in any Disney property, and getting Dwayne Johnson to voice him was a stroke of brilliance. 

I'm only half joking, he was the catalyst and the most present obstacle to Moana, so an argument can be made that he was a clever antagonist. You see, the over reliance in a villain or clear antagonist is limiting in story telling. You know that old adage that a hero is only as good as it's villain? Those that believe that need to step into a library, cause no ... just ... no. 

Looking at Disney, some of their best films have very nebulous and occasionally ephemeral villains. Makes for a better story if you are focused more on theme than plot. 

Moana having a more central antagonist would have been distracting and superfluous. The film is much better for the approach it took. 

  • Brohoof 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
Earl Grey Ghost

Earl Grey Ghost

(edited)

I was asking myself the same question, and then one of the best people on the internet, answered my question for me. I quite agree with him, and he's worth a look. I highly recommend him, his videos and in all honesty, I trust his judgement on reviews. Take a look:

Warning: Some adult language

 

Edited by Momento Mori
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jackfettgames

jackfettgames

For what happened to "old Disney villains," I think Disney's current mindset can most accurately be found in the live action Maleficent.  This movie, however you may think of it, serves to give more "realistic" motivations towards Maleficent's evil in Sleeping Beauty.  Through this, I observe that, currently, Disney heros and villains start with the same mindset, but the villains have a certain small event in their life that changes them (see @Ivan The Adorable's post above).

In short, Disney's priorities have changed from bringing memorable villains to bringing realistic antagonists (in their view of "realistic," at least).  I don't really have an opinion on this change, but I am interested in seeing where it goes from here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 3 years later...
Megas

Megas

On 2017-10-18 at 7:31 PM, Megas said:

Because they're focusing all their effort on Kylo Ren now

Well this surely didn't age well lol

For the question above, I get the impression they wanted to repeat the impact of Hans from Frozen by surprising people, which would explain the abundance of twist villains as of late. I mean, when you think about it Hans wasn't exactly a groundbreaking villain or particularly interesting twist, but it was a first for a company like Disney and his twist did get under people's skin in a lot of the right ways, but the last few times they tried this again(Bellwether and the teacher from BH6 come to mind) didn't render the same results. Honestly when I think of the best Disney villains in the last 5 years, the ones that come to mind aren't even Disney proper(De La Cruz from Coco comes to mind)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Join the herd!

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...