Mesme Rize

I want the debate pit to be removed

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Normally i refrain myself from saying anything bad about this forum, because i love this place and alot of people here have always been good to me.

But the debate pit is the most toxic place on this whole forum and it has been especially bad in the last few months. It seems like 80% of the time anything political comes up (especially when it comes to our current US President) it turns into a bickering and fingerpointing war on both sides and the people who try to reason for a bit are just left in the dust. In the worst case, threads are locked and users are banned from the topic, making them feel unwelcome because they might see this as an attack on their political believes.

I know that this is quite an extreme request, but how much does it actually benefit our community? I feel like it only damages this place more then it actually helps and i would love it if we all could get along together, instead of feeling distant from another.

  • Brohoof 30

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For what it is worth I completely disagree. I respect you completely mesme, but I don't quite see it like you described.

I think it is very important to have a place where controversial topics can be discussed. I have seen many interesting points of view in the debate pit and I believe that while there is definitely a few bad apples, in this case, it does not spoil the bunch. A vast majority of debate pit topics and threads are completely civil, I think it is jumping the gun to say because a few users (or threads) can't control themselves the whole thing gets shut down.

Perhaps if we were looking for a compromise you could argue for stricter rules. This is something I could potentially get behind, just so long as it does not hinder potential conversations.

Also, for what it is worth. Sections such as the debate pit are what make this forum so much more active than most MLP forums. The fact that users can talk about anything (within reason) really keeps people posting and sticking around. If we make it a habit of stunting conversation the community cannot last very long.

  • Brohoof 18
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It's the opinions you don't agree with that need the most protection. If we're not allowed to hash it out here in a civil manner, it'll only be done in a place where it won't be. 

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I actually enjoy the debate pit quite a lot. I just ignore the hyperbolic comments and users- often times they weren't open to reason or discourse to begin with. 

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(edited)

I see very little toxicity in the debate pit, political or not. If the debate pit were to be removed, there would still be debates. Just elsewhere in the forum.. and besides, I don't believe that a little bit of toxicity is a reason to remove such an important and adored feature. Also, if I am not mistaken, aren't you a frequent poster in the debate pit?

 

39 minutes ago, FlitterFlutter said:

Also, for what it is worth. Sections such as the debate pit are what make this forum so much more active than most MLP forums. The fact that users can talk about anything (within reason) really keeps people posting and sticking around. If we make it a habit of stunting conversation the community cannot last very long.

In essence, this. I could not have said it better myself, FlitterFlutter.

Edited by Heavenly Sun

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I disagree, it's always good to have a spot where a variety of topics where many can discuss is always welcome. Sure, some get overboard, it happens in the rest 9f the forum as well. Lastly, these breaks of rules are responsibility of the inflicting users, not the forum staff

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The debate pit has annoyed me more times than I can remember, but I don't see that as a reason to get rid of the platform for those discussions. It is human nature for discussions to get heated sometimes, no matter where you go. It is what it is.

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I don't want that... But I would like to see the letter count / character count bumped a bit. 

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At the very least just give us an option to hide the Debate Pit, I don't want to see some of the nonsense there updating frequently on my front page

35 minutes ago, Arid_Blitz said:

Also no one said you had to visit that place o3o so you know...sorta own fault lol

It's not that easy, on my home page it's frequently updated with purposely inflammatory debate pit titles and posts

35 minutes ago, Heavenly Sun said:

I see very little toxicity in the debate pit, political or not.

??? This place has one of the most unpleasant debate forums from any site I've been on, which is saying a lot. It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion without the same groups people ganging up on anyone who has an opposing opinions and forcing their hivemind mentalities, conspiracy and fear mongering bullshit, constant insults, baseless accusations and endless mudslinging.

There is a place for debate, but there's a ton of people here with easy access to a controversial part of the site incapable of a fair debate

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(edited)
14 minutes ago, Kiryu-Chan said:

??? This place has one of the most unpleasant debate forums from any site I've been on, which is saying a lot. It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion without the same groups people ganging up on anyone who has an opposing opinions and forcing their hivemind mentalities, conspiracy and fear mongering bullshit, constant insults, baseless accusations and endless mudslinging.

 

I don't know where you're seeing that. Perhaps I just don't see what you see. I see no name calling, no flaming. I see discussion. Perhaps discussion that gets passionate at times, but discussion nonetheless, and that is what the debate pit is for. I reiterate, some toxicity is no reason to remove the debate pit. It removes an important part of the forum, and it's unfair to those who actually are civil.

Edited by Heavenly Sun

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I second the notion. The debate pit is more than the most toxic place on this site. It's probably one of the most toxic places I've ever been on the internet. Trolls everywhere who have no idea what they're even talking about attempting a coherent political debate is a nightmare to say the least.

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(edited)
9 hours ago, Mesme Rize said:

it turns into a bickering and fingerpointing war on both sides and the people who try to reason for a bit are just left in the dust. In the worst case, threads are locked and users are banned from the topic, making them feel unwelcome because they might see this as an attack on their political believes.

I understand where you're coming from; indeed I now avoid the debate pit as a really quite unpleasant place. It's not like the topics are any more controversial than I've discussed with people face-to-face, but it does just seem to be the medium (forum-based discussion in text) that brings out the worst in people. There are certainly those who are civil and capable of weighing the views of those with opposing views, but unfortunately it doesn't take many with a vicious streak to make it unappealing (to me at least. If you still like it, good for you.)  

Still, I don't think that removing it will help. Not because it will affect free speech, as there are any number of sites on which one can discuss debate-pit topics, and not because those on the MLP forums have a 'right' to a debate pit, but because it keeps it in one place. If people really want to debate [issue of the day] then they can do so away from the relaxed discussion of multicoloured ponies that I like to keep as a recreational activity (as opposed to an intense reflection on societal values* or whatever.) From a purely pragmatic outlook it acts as a drain for the rest of the site for those that don't like it, and a place of discussion and thought for those that do like it.

The option to hide debate pit threads wouldn't go amiss though, as there is always a temptation to weigh in on provocative or topical issues that I do seem to regret afterwards^. A convention to not post status updates of a nature that would be confined to the debate pit would be nice, but I suspect that would rather annoy some people and so is best not acted upon.

 

*which has a time and a place, but that time is not 'always' and that place is not 'everywhere'. 

^I think it's something to do with constantly defending a position. Even when I do know my stuff, the statistics support my case and it's a case that needs to be made, it's wearing to have several responses that one needs to consider in detail and feel obliged to respond to every time you log in.

Edited by Once In A Blue Moon

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Heh, yeah, that's why I don't go there. :D I hate politics and that kind of things. :rarity: If I'd have to say something about politics... it would be nothing good, so I prefer to keep that for myself. You know how it goes, people can complain for ages on maaaaaaaany things. :muffins: 

Generally I agree ~ forums related to MLP aren't really suitable to poke politics, as that's nothing else than a toxic subject, that would be better to avoid in places like this. In one corner - yay friendship, on another - the endless war of opinions, that are completely out of place (I hope it's actually not as bad as I may think). However, the users are right- that's an area located in off-topic, so it is somewhere at the bottom and nobody is forced to go there. UNLESS users actually would bring these into status updates or similar places. Not everybody likes to participate in (or even have any contact with~) that kind of discussions, so I'd like to stay away from these if possible. I didn't join this herd to debate about politics, thus find yet another source of negative energy. I'd go somewhere else instead; I'll pass, thanks. :P

Nevertheless, I get what you mean Mesme and I agree, but the users defending that area also have a good point, so that itself makes a debate. :derp: 

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The sheer amount of topics that are locked indefinitely in that section due to toxicity is absolutely amazing to me.

But it's a place for controversial discussion, you can see it as containment if you'd like and avoid it like the plague but that doesn't mean you have to take it away from people who enjoy the genuine discourse there.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, GrimGrimoire said:

Custom Streams snek pone. They are your friend. Do not fear them.

 

Yep, that's a way to get around these in the streams, but that doesn't completely solve the problem for Rarity though.

rOxU324.png

 

She got spooked by that on the home page. Not even those ghosts in background are that scary. :please:

Well, titles themselves aren't that bad, that's true, buuuuuuuuuut some actually may be suggestive, such as "I think transgender people are insane" (topic from Debate Pit). Yeah, that's something everypony would like to see on the front page.:pout:

 

 

Oh- and to be clear, personally I don't mind these, as I'm just ignoring these. I'm fine with that.

Edited by Rikifive

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I think the debate pit is a necessary evil. I know MLP forums is supposed to be a bit of a safe haven, but there's got to be some spot on the site where someone can get their aggression out or engage in controversy. I find it to be the forum equivalent of a punching bag. You punch the "bag" so you don't go out and pick a fight in real life.

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6 minutes ago, Denim&Venom said:

I think this question needs to be moved to the Debate Pit. 

Irony or legit concern? Possibly both?

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You know, I'm not going to be particularly vocal about it. If the debate pit WAS removed however, I suppose I wouldn't see it as a bad thing and it might actually be a net gain to the community. There are other brony forums that don't have NEAR the amount of camaraderie that we do, or enough to justify the title in my opinion. So removing the metaphorical "smoking section" I would say wouldn't be a terrible idea. I'm not going to crusade for it but call it a tacit endorsement. 

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21 minutes ago, Rikifive said:

Yep, that's a way to get around these in the streams, but that doesn't completely solve the problem for Rarity though.

rOxU324.png

 

@Rikifive where were you hiding in my house to take this photo of me?

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2 minutes ago, PiratePony said:

@Rikifive where were you hiding in my house to take this photo of me?

Can't say because I'm still there. :pout: uh that is, yay I'm watching over you- that's good, right? :squee: *er* I meant--I think you sent me that one, haven't you? :icwudt:

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Steel Accord said:

You know, I'm not going to be particularly vocal about it. If the debate pit WAS removed however, I suppose I wouldn't see it as a bad thing and it might actually be a net gain to the community. There are other brony forums that don't have NEAR the amount of camaraderie that we do, or enough to justify the title in my opinion. So removing the metaphorical "smoking section" I would say wouldn't be a terrible idea. I'm not going to crusade for it but call it a tacit endorsement. 

I like that "smoking area" metaphor.

Thing is, in its current iteration, the DP is a smoking area without doors, windows or a proper ventilation system, from which smoke leaks into other rooms and you occasionally hear things like "Non-smokers are the scum of Earth" as you walk by.

I don't recall the DP being as much of an issue before its threads were shown in the "new posts" feed. Therefore, going back to the smoking metaphor, the only solution would be adding a bloody door.

Edited by Soul Flare
Fixed some typos

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