I want the debate pit to be removed

[Steel Accord 6,658]

1 minute ago, Soul Flare said:

I don't recall the DP being as much of an issue before its threads were shown in the "new posts" feed. Therefore, going back to the smoking metaphor, the only solution would be adding a bloody door.

Or just a regular door. A door covered in blood might certainly be indicative of the section's current content but I don't think it invites measured debate. 

[Jeric 46,834]

I would not want to see the DP be removed in any way shape or form. In terms of toxicity, this is preschool tame in comparison to social media. 

I was able to step away from this site, and most other social sites for a week with relative ease. I went so far as to uninstall Discord. It isn't much to ask people to simply ignore a Section or a link if they don't like it. Those that do contribute there should not be held hostage by any member with an inability to practice self-control and simple not participate. That power rests in each and every one of us. 

I don't participate often in that area, but I do see value reading the thoughts of others -- regardless of their ideological leanings. It's appropriately moderated. It should remain. I sure as hell don't want to find it gone when I return to regular activity, whenever that will be. 

Now if you all pardon me, I shall return to the solitude of code and the personal fulfillment of family -- renewal and all that. 

[CypherHoof 26,479]

I don't think it should be removed, but it would be nice to be able to remove *from activity feeds* sections we have no interest in (not just the debate pit, but the full list). That way, we can continue on our own, merry way without having to see any of the traffic from those groups, and they can continue on their merry ways generating such traffic where we don't have to look at it

[Fhaolan 4,468]

I *think* I may have closed the door on the smoking area. It's a painful UI, so I may have accidentally closed the door on other forums as well. :/

Basically 'Debate Pit', and 'Life Advice' will no longer appear in the 'Recent Posts', 'New Topics', or 'New Posts' sections of the homepage... I hope. Unfortunately the way it works I had to explicitly whitelist all categories *other* than those two in all three sections. So it's very likely I missed something. If anyone notices anything missing that *should* be in there, let me know.

[Foxy Socks 2,596]

I rarely have used the debate pit, and the topics I've made/posted in it aren't the most controversial, but people are going to discuss these things whether or not we have it. It would seem easier to moderate (though I wouldn't know) to have a section for it. Perhaps stricter moderation could be a solution. 

[Jeric 46,834]

2 hours ago, Foxy Socks said:

Perhaps stricter moderation could be a solution

I don't think that's necessary. This may be that cynical side to me, but I honestly believe that people tend to be to sensitive to their own personal beliefs when they create these, "kill DP" topics. In my experience, the majority of the moderation that is done here is fine, and usually only impacts people posting controversial opinions for shits and giggles ... or the people who are so emotionally invested in their stance that they take any counter opinion as a personal attack. Standard fare psychology, particularly in this hyper charged world we find ourselves in. 

2 hours ago, Foxy Socks said:

but people are going to discuss these things whether or not we have it.

Yes. Some don't know this, because they joined the site later, or haven't dug into the history of the site. DP was created as a response to complaints that people didn't want to see political topics in General Discussion. Staff was left with one of three choices. Separate forum, continue to allow political debate to mix with GD topics, or ban political debate. They chose the compromise solution. 

2 hours ago, Foxy Socks said:

 It would seem easier to moderate (though I wouldn't know) to have a section for it.

The most childish tantrum laden responses came from members that post in DP. It's funny ... a mod lock or post will provoke a few community brohoof/likes and one reaction similar to this

Or this 

O_o

I always had great respect for those that helped to diligently moderate that area. 

[Buck Testa 5,503]

It has its place on this website. While it does get particularly aggressive on there (with me being the aggressor on a few occasions) the moderators do keep everything relatively civil. The Debate Pit is also necessary to keep those festering frustrations contained and not have them spill over into unrelated sections. It's nice to have a place to civilly duke it out without it being off topic. If someone goes overboard, the mods will DEFINITELY let them know. I know from experience lol. 

[JonasDarkmane 19,777]

How about no? 

I am sorry if not everybody is able to engage in the debate with civility and within the realm of the rules. But some are better at doing so, better at controlling their emotions and enjoy having intellectual debates. Things can get heated, but that is nothing to be mad about. You get intellectually whooped? Live with it! Learn from it! 

Getting angry over not having things your way or taking things too far yourself and then getting a knock on the door from the staff should not come at the expense of everybody else. Others who are able to keep their cool should get to continue to debate as they will. 

 

10 hours ago, Jeric said:

moderate that area

*Still remembers FFS 2016*

*Shudders* 

 

But to touch upon the moderation point, just make it clear to everybody else, the staff does a great job at moderating that area. They do pay great attention to this section, sometimes even more closely than any other section on this entire site. Rest assured, the staff makes sure that the rules are followed and that things go with as much civility as possible. 

[Hierok 11,829]

I almost never go to the debate pit, because many times it annoyed me and then I was swearing in the room. I have been pissed of many, many times by people who do not agree with me. I suggest you do the same. 

[Varrack 1,080]

1. The debate pit is nowhere near as turbulent as some parts of the Internet. In fact, I'd say it's pretty tame. I've seen far worse things in Facebook and YouTube comment sections.

2. Provided it's hidden from the front page, it shouldn't bother anyone who doesn't want to see it.

3. It acts as a balancing point of all things of an argumentative nature on the site. If a controversial news story is posted, it can easily be moved to that section. The concentration of those kinds of topics in one place prevents impassioned topics from reaching other parts of the site, thus keeping the whole site cleaner. 

4. It is heavily moderated. Trolling is met with bans, and other poor conduct is met with warnings and/or locking topics. The report function is always there, too.

5. Political posts would essentially be forbidden on the site, given their potential to spark controversy. Topics of this nature aren't necessary to censor, since political events do play a part in our lives.

 

[BloodDrops 762]

no

 

just dont enter it

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

For the most part, I avoid the Debate Pit like the plague.

But I absolutely believe in and support its purpose here on the forums. It’s a great place for people to get their thoughts out on more controversial topics without dragging them around to the more lighthearted subforums.

Civil discourse is one of the most important parts of a functioning society.

[BloodDrops 762]

1 hour ago, ShadOBabe said:

the plague.

resembled that remark

take it back it discriminates against zombies!!!!

[Mlppotterwhoovian 381]

No offense, but this is a debate pit discussion about removing a debate pit, so I'm definitely confused and disappointed 

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

2 hours ago, BloodDrops said:

resembled that remark

take it back it discriminates against zombies!!!!

[Stone Cold Steve Jobs 22,410]

You get rid of the debate pit and people will take their arguing to other areas of the forums. I see inflammatory stuff all the time. I just don't click on it. Fact is people like the debate pit and you will find toxicity everywhere. They won't get rid of it because it triggers or offends a few people though. That would be utter nonsense and completely ridiculous.

[Libra 11,690]

21 minutes ago, Someguyinablazer said:

You get rid of the debate pit and people will take their arguing to other areas of the forums. I see inflammatory stuff all the time. I just don't click on it. Fact is people like the debate pit and you will find toxicity everywhere. They won't get rid of it because it triggers or offends a few people though. That would be utter nonsense and completely ridiculous.

Kinda hard to ignore something when it appears on:

new topics

recommended topics (EVEN THOUGH I DONT EVEN POST THERE)

recently posted in (which is also stupid)

belive me, i understand if the debate section is removed people will just go somewhere else, but For lunass sake, even in the rules its says "most people are children" and children/politics is not something to mix.

They can at least allow an "make section invisible" button next to it so it wont be seen.

 

[Mlppotterwhoovian 381]

Idea: why not make a peace section in the ever free forest where it is waaay calmer and people talk about less "debatable topics. Or a simple peace treaty should settle this. Ps. I normally don't do arguements, but an admin really needs to move this thread to the actual debate pit , just saying 

[Jeric 46,834]

1 hour ago, Mlppotterwhoovian said:

but an admin really needs to move this thread to the actual debate pit , just saying 

No they don't. Feedback, it's entire purpose, is about the users of this community opening dialog with each other AND the staff. Some of the Feedback topics will involve discussion that can be contentious by nature as a few people will occasionally use it as a platform to suggest the removal of a popular item, feature, or forum. This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last time, that someone has called for Debate Pit to be removed. 

 

I'm fairly confident DP isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[Mlppotterwhoovian 381]

3 hours ago, Neimoidian Princess said:

No they don't. Feedback, it's entire purpose, is about the users of this community opening dialog with each other AND the staff. Some of the Feedback topics will involve discussion that can be contentious by nature as a few people will occasionally use it as a platform to suggest the removal of a popular item, feature, or forum. This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last time, that someone has called for Debate Pit to be removed. 

 

I'm fairly confident DP isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Well said, and I'm leaving this thread  

[Rainbow Dash 1,471]

Back when i used the site religiously i would often find friends complaining about that section. I myself have poked in and I was greeted with hate. It felt like the politics were taken too seriously over time. Debates can get pretty emotional. Just google any government official having a melt down, there are tons on youtube.

Now, I always was told are they hating and attack me? Or just what I said? Most of the times, the people were just there to debate and get their points heard. There were some that did attack me or my friends but usually the mods are quick to act on that. I say usually cause sometimes the drama poured out onto skype.

Sometimes you gotta remember that usually in debates, some people are ignorant to the point where they dont wanna hear your side. Some people DO take discussions like these to heart. You gotta just not be toxic or as toxic to the other person.

If I said, "I respect your words, however this is how I feel and i hope it makes sense." would you respond kindly as opposed to if I said "What? lol, where did you hear that from> wherever you did, its wrong cause this is what it really is."?

My friends and I have caught ourselves doing this. We start out respectful then go into petty passive aggressive remarks which turn into hurt feelings.

[Twisted Cyclone 🚓 6,221]

I feel like the debate pit should stay but somehow find a way to where politics don't sneak into it. There's plenty of ways to debate people without being political.

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

9 minutes ago, Twisted Cyclone said:

I feel like the debate pit should stay but somehow find a way to where politics don't sneak into it. There's plenty of ways to debate people without being political.

I disagree with this. Politics and political discussion are important, and the the conflicts therein usually have a basis in humans having different moral and civic priorities and viewpoints, which are also important things to openly discuss.

[Jeric 46,834]

1 hour ago, ShadOBabe said:

I disagree with this. Politics and political discussion are important, and the the conflicts therein usually have a basis in humans having different moral and civic priorities and viewpoints, which are also important things to openly discuss.

Succinctly put. I have nothing more substantive to add since it's pretty much the best way to phrase it. For all my salt about DP and my tendency to pop in there and call shenanigans on people, political and civic rhetoric are healthy when out in the open. It's when they are allowed to slowly simmer in silence that causes massive problems. Oh. I guess I did have something to add. 

 

 

[Sir Hugsalot 8,619]

I saw plenty of the worst debate pit has to offer. I saw some of thread names that have clickbait level of cheap internet websites built to enforce certain political agendas. I saw people fighting others so blindly I ask myself if they have anything to offer other than their political opinions. Battles of Trump and Hillary fans will be legendary one day. That section can be so toxic one thread could polute entire Poland.

But I don't want that place removed. There are still nice people around there, who will simply talk, I don't see a reason to punish them because of few individuals that always feel the need to trash everything that is different from what they believe in. And moderation knows when to kick in and clean things up. 

The section is more toxic than the rest, but it resolves around difficult topics. Of course some people get emotional when discussing those. Better to have all that happening in one section made specifically for it than on entire forum. Because when we remove debate pit... then what? New addition to forum rules "Discussions about politics, ideologies, religions, ethics and morals are not allowed here"? It will make us look incredibly dumb to say the least. 

So no, debate pit should not be removed. It's not going to fix anything.