Alicorns

[SoberStarlight 906]

So, my knowledge of alicorns and how they are born were pretty much clear until Flurry Heart is born. Once that little foal was born, everything I thought I knew became irrelevant. All because of a quote by Celestia: "This is the first time Equestria has witnessed the birth of an Alicorn." This seemingly insignificant and innocent quote just told us that Celestia and Luna, as well as Cadence, were not born as alicorns, but they were transformed. This to me makes no sense, and could just be poor editing, but it makes me wonder: How do pony genes work? 

So, in season 2, when Shining Armor is marrying Cadence, we see a flashback of Cadence where she seems to be an adolescent, but she is still portrayed as an alicorn. And going off of what happened with Twilight, a pony becomes an alicorn once he/she does some kind of deed or action that reflects their true purpose and makes them a princess (i.e. Twilight solves Starswirl the Bearded's spell). And Cadence, who is the Princess of Love, must have done some kind of deed that brought out love in others. I doubt that a pony of her age could have done such a task, which leads me to believe that she was born an alicorn, but she was obviously not, according to Celestia. Once again, MIND FUCK.

SO, this also means that Celestia and Luna were born as a normal unicorn/pegasus and performed some kind of important deed to gain their wings, horn. It was much easier to think that alicorns are a royal race that have special powers, and that they were born when two alicorns had a baby. Pony genes are like season 3 of "The Flash;" just one big mind fuck. 

What are your guys' thought? What do you make of this? Do you have any explanations or can explain it better than I can?

Thanks,

Jayson

[AlbaTross 1,581]

Well, what Celestia said was that was the first time an Alicorn was born...in Equestria.  I'm a bit of a spinoff media buff, and in The Journal of the Two Sisters it is implied that Celestia and Luna were born elsewhere and ended up in Equestria, where they were so widely respected that they became its rulers.  Even the Journal doesn't shed much light on who their parents were or what happened to them, or even anything about Alicorns as a species.  If they were born elsewhere, that must be confirmation of a land of Alicorns...or were they merely the last of their kind?  That last notion hasn't been confirmed, but it is a very real possibility all things considered.

As for Cadance, if you read the very first of G.M. Berrow's books entitled Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Hearts Spell, it mentions that Cadance was an orphaned Pegasus filly who had a love stare, similar to Fluttershy's obedience stare, and used it to stop an evil sorceress from enslaving her village.  That love stare now manifests itself as Cadance's love Spell, which gives you an idea as to how she stopped the sorceress.  Celestia was so impressed that after that event, she adopted Cadance and made her an Alicorn.  It's a brief story Cadance tells Twilight, but it is infinitely more engaging than the actual plot of the book.  

By the way, Alicorns do also contain aspects of Earth Ponies, they just don't manifest themselves in physical traits such as wings and a horn.  I do believe it is possible for an Earth pony to have enough magic in them to do a magic stare, it just hasn't been seen yet and is astronomically rare in Pegasus Ponies.  As the book confirms that Celestia does make Ponies into Alicorns, she could make an Earth Pony into one.  She clearly likes to hold out for the very rare exceptional Pony who impresses her and likely holds the virtues of a Princess, as in Equestria being an Alicorn automatically makes one a Princess.  It is unknown whether males can become Alicorns.

Anyways, the reason why Celestia was intrigued by an Alicorn birth in Equestria is that it proves something interesting.  When Celestia turns a Pony into an Alicorn they don't merely take on the properties of one, but essentially have their DNA completely shifted to that of an Alicorn.  It's the only possible way Cadance could have an Alicorn baby.  

[SoberStarlight 906]

2 minutes ago, AlbaTross said:

Well, what Celestia said was that was the first time an Alicorn was born...in Equestria.  I'm a bit of a spinoff media buff, and in The Journal of the Two Sisters it is implied that Celestia and Luna were born elsewhere and ended up in Equestria, where they were so widely respected that they became its rulers.  Even the Journal doesn't shed much light on who their parents were or what happened to them, or even anything about Alicorns as a species.  If they were born elsewhere, that must be confirmation of a land of Alicorns...or were they merely the last of their kind?  That last notion hasn't been confirmed, but it is a very real possibility all things considered.

As for Cadance, if you read the very first of G.M. Berrow's books entitled Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Hearts Spell, it mentions that Cadance was an orphaned Pegasus filly who had a love stare, similar to Fluttershy's obedience stare, and used it to stop an evil sorceress from enslaving her village.  That love stare now manifests itself as Cadance's love Spell, which gives you an idea as to how she stopped the sorceress.  Celestia was so impressed that after that event, she adopted Cadance and made her an Alicorn.  It's a brief story Cadance tells Twilight, but it is infinitely more engaging than the actual plot of the book.  

By the way, Alicorns do also contain aspects of Earth Ponies, they just don't manifest themselves in physical traits such as wings and a horn.  I do believe it is possible for an Earth pony to have enough magic in them to do a magic stare, it just hasn't been seen yet and is astronomically rare in Pegasus Ponies.  As the book confirms that Celestia does make Ponies into Alicorns, she could make an Earth Pony into one.  She clearly likes to hold out for the very rare exceptional Pony who impresses her and likely holds the virtues of a Princess, as in Equestria being an Alicorn automatically makes one a Princess.  It is unknown whether males can become Alicorns.

Anyways, the reason why Celestia was intrigued by an Alicorn birth in Equestria is that it proves something interesting.  When Celestia turns a Pony into an Alicorn they don't merely take on the properties of one, but essentially have their DNA completely shifted to that of an Alicorn.  It's the only possible way Cadance could have an Alicorn baby.  

I see. Thanks for the clarification. I haven't read any books related to MLP, so I was unaware of this. 

[AlbaTross 1,581]

16 hours ago, jay_19 said:

I see. Thanks for the clarification. I haven't read any books related to MLP, so I was unaware of this. 

Well, there is much debate on how canon the books are, but I subscribe to B canon theory, where all spinoff media is canon until it contradicts something from the show.  Not every piece of spinoff media is great, but I actually think most of G.M. Berrow's books are pretty solid.  That first one might actually be one of, if not her worst, but that's not saying much since I think she's generally a good writer.

There's also a comic that suggests that Cadance may be a long lost descendant of Princess Amore of the Crystal Empire, which at first glance seems to contradict the notion of her being a Pegasus.  However, it occurred to me that it's astronomically unlikely that there has never been any inter-breeding among the three pony races in Equestria's history.  It's possible that having a magic stare is a symptom of Unicorn ancestry.  Moreover, there is no record on who Cadance's parents are/were, let alone her family line.  We know that Fluttershy's parents are indeed Pegasi, but that doesn't mean she can't have Unicorn ancestry.  I actually think it's highly possible that Rarity has some Earth Pony ancestry.  Anyways, regardless of ancestry, Cadance is an Alicorn through and through.  

[SoberStarlight 906]

2 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

Well, there is much debate on how canon the books are, but I subscribe to B canon theory, where all spinoff media is canon until it contradicts something from the show.  Not every piece of spinoff media is great, but I actually think most of G.M. Berrow's books are pretty solid.  That first one might actually be one of, if not her worst, but that's not saying much since I think she's generally a good writer.

There's also a comic that suggests that Cadance may be a long lost descendant of Princess Amore of the Crystal Empire, which at first glance seems to contradict the notion of her being a Pegasus.  However, it occurred to me that it's astronomically unlikely that there has never been any inter-breeding among the three pony races in Equestria's history.  It's possible that having a magic stare is a symptom of Unicorn ancestry.  Moreover, there is no record on who Cadance's parents are/were, let alone her family line.  We know that Fluttershy's parents are indeed Pegasi, but that doesn't mean she can't have Unicorn ancestry.  I actually think it's highly possible that Rarity has some Earth Pony ancestry.  Anyways, regardless of ancestry, Cadance is an Alicorn through and through.  

Yea. Also the fact that this is a show targeted towards kids means that Hasbro will never go into detail about pony genes

But part of the fun is to speculate and make theories!

Thanks for the feedback!

[AlbaTross 1,581]

1 hour ago, jay_19 said:

Yea. Also the fact that this is a show targeted towards kids means that Hasbro will never go into detail about pony genes

But part of the fun is to speculate and make theories!

Thanks for the feedback!

You're welcome, and these are far from the craziest theories I have, lol.  If you like making theories you'll probably love the comics and chapter books as everything you can get your hands on adds fuel for theory making.  It's doable with just the show mind you.  My theory on Equestria's economic system is derived more or less entirely from the show.  The theory I posted above about Pony cross-breeds is weaved from the show, and a particular comic and chapter book.  For the show's part I draw on both the season 4 finale and any episode with Fluttershy's stare, but mostly Staremaster.  Oh, and Baby Cakes.  

[CrimpedContraband 47]

Forgive me, my post length will not be as big as I would like to make it right now. But with my limited knowledge and remembrance of episodes, I'm pretty sure Luna and Celstia have been around for centuries. Personally I see it as if they were put here from a "Higher being," like a deity, or themselves are the only deities. And the queen of the changeling, is sort of "satan" to speak.

 

Just my personal take on it.

Edited October 23, 2017 by CrimpedContraband

[SoberStarlight 906]

3 hours ago, CrimpedContraband said:

Forgive me, my post length will not be as big as I would like to make it right now. But with my limited knowledge and remembrance of episodes, I'm pretty sure Luna and Celstia have been around for centuries. Personally I see it as if they were put here from a "Higher being," like a deity, or themselves are the only deities. And the queen of the changeling, is sort of "satan" to speak.

 

Just my personal take on it.

An interesting take on it - I like it!

Spoiler

But also keep in mind that Celestia and Luna were once pupils of Starswirl the bearded, as shown in the season 7 finale. So this means that Celestia and Luna were once students too, and possibly just unicorns and/or pegasi and/or earth ponies. Indeed they have been around for centuries, also proved by the finale. These events, including the birth of Flurry Heart lead me to believe, as stated by @AlbaTross, that Celestia and Luna are from a far off land.

Eh, but like I said, it's fun to speculate. 

[CrimpedContraband 47]

8 hours ago, SoberStarlight said:

An interesting take on it - I like it!

  Hide contents

But also keep in mind that Celestia and Luna were once pupils of Starswirl the bearded, as shown in the season 7 finale. So this means that Celestia and Luna were once students too, and possibly just unicorns and/or pegasi and/or earth ponies. Indeed they have been around for centuries, also proved by the finale. These events, including the birth of Flurry Heart lead me to believe, as stated by @AlbaTross, that Celestia and Luna are from a far off land.

Eh, but like I said, it's fun to speculate. 

Ahhh you see, I'm getting to season 7, not there yet. So I need to catch up.

[Midnight Blaze 98 1,138]

I’m just going to be boring and say that either Tia and Lulu weren’t born in Equestria or whoever wrote the script didn’t think it through.

And Cadence was the same age Twilight now is in that flashback, so I don’t see why she couldn’t have done some kind of special thing?

[Steve Piranha 28,726]

As clarified before, Cadance used to be a pegasus, and the S5 premiere supports that she wasn't born alicorn at least. Celly and Luna, we know they weren't fully grown when Starswirl banished, explaining that they may not have seen any alicorns being born after them. According to the Journal, Celestia and Luna were born from a tribe full of alicorns in what's now Canterlot, which makes the "alicorn birt is nothing Equestria has ever seen" STILL technically correct, as it wasn't part of Equestria either, plus the princesses where still fillies.

So far, I don't see any of those b canon media about alicorns to be contradicted 

[SoberStarlight 906]

4 hours ago, CrimpedContraband said:

Ahhh you see, I'm getting to season 7, not there yet. So I need to catch up.

Oh. My bad! I hope I didn't spoil anything!  

4 hours ago, Midnight Blaze 98 said:

I’m just going to be boring and say that either Tia and Lulu weren’t born in Equestria or whoever wrote the script didn’t think it through.

And Cadence was the same age Twilight now is in that flashback, so I don’t see why she couldn’t have done some kind of special thing?

Cadence looked almost like a teenager there to me... But like I said it is just my take and speculation on it, so I could be dead wrong.  

I think @AlbaTross is right though; some books have stated that she has a love stare and did in fact perform some special feat using love. Oh well. It was fun to think about. Here I was just thinking it was bad writing, when someone else out there had an explanation. I love the internet! 

[Midnight Blaze 98 1,138]

Just had a look and I think she’s the same age as Twilight is there, although she looks younger at different angles, it’s quite hard to tell! I always think of the mane 6 as being the same age as they appear in EQG though, so I guess that could complicate things depending on how old you think the Mane 6 are!

[Props Valroa 25,949]

I believe Celestia and Luna were born outside of equestria, as born alicorns to alicorn parents, who have been gone a long time or their parents story is too...important to be shared or for some other reason.

Cadence became an alicorn in a comic. 

http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Twilight_Sparkle_and_the_Crystal_Heart_Spell

[SoberStarlight 906]

5 hours ago, Twilight Witch said:

I believe Celestia and Luna were born outside of equestria, as born alicorns to alicorn parents, who have been gone a long time or their parents story is too...important to be shared or for some other reason.

Cadence became an alicorn in a comic. 

http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Twilight_Sparkle_and_the_Crystal_Heart_Spell

Ah. This is why I need to branch out and start reading the comics. I based my assumptions and analysis solely on the show. Are the comics canon though? 

[SBaby 660]

I thought the implication was always that they were born outside of Equestria.  Hence why they CAME to Equestria back when Discord had taken it over.  Plus, that might explain a few things about their longevity.

[Jeric 46,834]

On 10/22/2017 at 8:52 PM, SoberStarlight said:

Yea. Also the fact that this is a show targeted towards kids means that Hasbro will never go into detail about pony genes

Try and do a Punnett on the Cakes.

 

Since the show has officially started contradicting other media, it's fair for some fans to place other elements on the interpretative chopping block -- and this includes the origin of Celestia and Luna. 

[AlbaTross 1,581]

47 minutes ago, SoberStarlight said:

Ah. This is why I need to branch out and start reading the comics. I based my assumptions and analysis solely on the show. Are the comics canon though? 

Yes, they're B canon, which means they're canon to a point.  If the show contradicts anything in them, it renders whatever it is non-canon, but until then they're canon.  In the vast majority of cases though, the show has only 100% contradicted minor stuff like a background gag.  There are a few cases that seem to invalidate entire issues, but even if you have to grasp at straws there are usually straws to grasp in arguing that things may not be as cut and dry as they seem.  For example, the backstory of the sirens in a particular issue might have been invalidated by a few seconds of show footage, but I actually think only a few panels at the end are invalidated, and maybe not as much as it might appear.

[Props Valroa 25,949]

6 hours ago, SoberStarlight said:

Ah. This is why I need to branch out and start reading the comics. I based my assumptions and analysis solely on the show. Are the comics canon though? 

I don't know, but I don't count them as so.