Fame and Misfortune: Bad feels

[Castle Bleck 19,163]

10 hours ago, Steel Accord said:

The last even remotely negative thing I can say I said about the show was a critique of "28 Pranks Later" and even that was lambasting in-universe character logic which I didn't even have a huge problem with.

 

The only thing I hated about 28 Pranks Later was Dash forgetting the "Don't prank Fluttershy" standard; the rest of it was actually enjoyable, IMO.

 

By contrast, Fame And Misfortune reminded me too much of The Boys Of Bummer (The Simpsons) and potentially rivaled Rainbow Falls as my worst episode of the series.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

1 hour ago, Ivan The Adorable said:

But all the same, we should understand the point was a: creators being harassed directly is bad,

I completely agree. Always have. It's part of why I felt kind of hurt. "You think this is what I do? And not what I've protested against for as long as I've been a fan?"

1 hour ago, Ivan The Adorable said:

b: creators should remember who they are trying to reach with their work. I don't think it does is any favors to use flaws in the episode as an escape from addressing these more important and yes uncomfortable subjects

I don't disagree. As I've stated ad nauseum, it sounds like I'm taking this personally because I am. It doesn't change how I feel towards you all, the community, the show, or the creators; loving and supportive. It just feels like when that love and support is not recognized and the focus is on the very things you try specifically not to be, it can be a little disheartening.

[Celli 4,332]

27 minutes ago, Steel Accord said:

I completely agree. Always have. It's part of why I felt kind of hurt. "You think this is what I do? And not what I've protested against for as long as I've been a fan?"

I don't disagree. As I've stated ad nauseum, it sounds like I'm taking this personally because I am. It doesn't change how I feel towards you all, the community, the show, or the creators; loving and supportive. It just feels like when that love and support is not recognized and the focus is on the very things you try specifically not to be, it can be a little disheartening.

I think it was just a jab at the vocal fans who act entitled and complain about small things. 

[Steel Accord 6,658]

1 minute ago, Celli said:

I think it was just a jab at the vocal fans who act entitled and complain about small things. 

Yeah, you're right. I just made the thread to off load some thoughts and maybe get a pick me up and Will provided exactly that.

[Toon4Thought 273]

Honestly, this episode was by far my least favorite of season 7. Not because anything in it insulted me - it's clear it was aiming for the type of fans that would make Quibble Pants feel ashamed - but because it was so dang unpleasant for this show.

A large part of why I watch this show in the first place is for its optimism and lightheartedness, which this episode's tone seems to actively go against. When you get down to it, a good two-thirds of the episode is just seeing the Mane 6 get unfairly attacked and harassed with very little to no mercy to speak of, and that is - put simply - not what I want to see happen to these characters I care about. And said negativity permeates so much of the episode, with almost nothing to offset it (the two fillies at the end aren't anywhere close to enough), that I simply can't look past it. I would've found all that funny if it didn't come at the expense of the characters' sanity and the show's charm.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

1 minute ago, Toon4Thought said:

Honestly, this episode was by far my least favorite of season 7. Not because anything in it insulted me - it's clear it was aiming for the type of fans that would make Quibble Pants feel ashamed - but because it was so dang unpleasant for this show.

A large part of why I watch this show in the first place is for its optimism and lightheartedness, which this episode's tone seems to actively go against. When you get down to it, a good two-thirds of the episode is just seeing the Mane 6 get unfairly attacked and harassed with very little to no mercy to speak of, and that is - put simply - not what I want to see happen to these characters I care about. And said negativity permeates so much of the episode, with almost nothing to offset it (the two fillies at the end aren't anywhere close to enough), that I simply can't look past it. I would've found all that funny if it didn't come at the expense of the characters' sanity and the show's charm.

I didn't feel that way toward the episode. At the same time I completely agree with what you're saying and understand how you might feel that way. "Flawless" to me at least, kind of made the whole thing work because it was a triumphant rebuttal and a sort of reflection on all of the Mane Six. (Honestly could have used more of that in the movie, but I digress.)

So I totally get you, I also initially fell in love with the show for its optimism and if an episode DID make me feel depressed like one or more of the Mane Six were being tormented with no point, than I would hate that episode. Accept for me, that episode is actually Flutterbat. Again, neither here nor there, just saying I understand and empathize with your reasoning even if I did like the episode itself a great deal.

[Jeric 46,834]

4 hours ago, Steel Accord said:

So by all means feel as you feel. Just don’t misconstrue my original post as negativity toward the episode, show, or writers.

Just to be fair, this isn't the respondent or reader's failing. If anyone came away with the view you had a negative opinion of the episode, it's on you. When you invoke visual images of gastrointestinal distress as a general sense of how you felt while processing the show, you start entering that tricky realm of inviting conflation. 

You heightened the change for that to happen in your opening sentence, which through the use of font size and type bolding, signalled to the audience, "I have strong feelings concerning what I am about to say." Believe it or not, restrictive openings like that tend to lead to a more caustic initial frame of mind for some readers. 

It's legit that the episode left you feeling conflicted, you aren't alone, but your message isn't as crystal clear as you may have intended. 

13 hours ago, Steel Accord said:

So to have proxy representations of me be exactly the kind of negative-nancy I disagree with and not the "I have learned lessons, enjoy ALL of the characters, and love this show dearly" type of fan. It hit home kind of hard.

This is the heart of your message, and as others may have intimated, if you don't behave as the fan characters depicted in the episode did, one interpretation is that they simply aren't representative of you. 

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

2 hours ago, Steel Accord said:

I completely agree. Always have. It's part of why I felt kind of hurt. "You think this is what I do? And not what I've protested against for as long as I've been a fan?"

I don't disagree. As I've stated ad nauseum, it sounds like I'm taking this personally because I am. It doesn't change how I feel towards you all, the community, the show, or the creators; loving and supportive. It just feels like when that love and support is not recognized and the focus is on the very things you try specifically not to be, it can be a little disheartening.

Well, just remember how they portrayed the fans in Once Upon A Zepplin, those fans were excited and clingy, but they also were happy to give Twilight and her family space when asked to. If it helps, put yourself in the second group of fans they showed.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

Just to be fair, this isn't the respondent or reader's failing. If anyone came away with the view you had a negative opinion of the episode, it's on you. When you invoke visual images of gastrointestinal distress as a general sense of how you felt while processing the show, you start entering that tricky realm of inviting conflation. 

You heightened the change for that to happen in your opening sentence, which through the use of font size and type bolding, signalled to the audience, "I have strong feelings concerning what I am about to say." Believe it or not, restrictive openings like that tend to lead to a more caustic initial frame of mind for some readers. 

It's legit that the episode left you feeling conflicted, you aren't alone, but your message isn't as crystal clear as you may have intended. 

This is the heart of your message, and as others may have intimated, if you don't behave as the fan characters depicted in the episode did, one interpretation is that they simply aren't representative of you. 

I sincerely apologize for my unclear intention in my posting.

44 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

Well, just remember how they portrayed the fans in Once Upon A Zepplin, those fans were excited and clingy, but they also were happy to give Twilight and her family space when asked to. If it helps, put yourself in the second group of fans they showed.

Haven’t seen it yet, but your comment is appreciated.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

Just now, Steel Accord said:

I sincerely apologize for my unclear intention in my posting.

Haven’t seen it yet, but your comment is appreciated.

Oh... oops. You should watch that, really good episode.

[Libra 11,690]

14 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

From what I see, there is no positive spin for it. The episode bathes itself in negativity, negativity that it didn't need to bring up. It left me with a feeling of irritation and grumpyness, when most episodes make me feel happy upon watching them.

i actually enjoyed the episode. Yeah, it was negative, but it was mainly drected towards the people that constantly belittle and yell at hasbro for doing so-and-so. Fame and misfortune was equivelent to one big "buck you" to that part of the fanbase. I fully agree with them. Ive had enough of those people, plenty of others had enough, and now hasbros had enough.

i mean, every time i see someone complain, complain,complain, complain, and complain, it just makes me want to [THINK OF THE FILLIES NINETALES, THINK OF THE FILLIES]! Im honestly sick of them and by F.A.M, hasbro hqs announced its sick of them, too. 

[Celli 4,332]

56 minutes ago, Ninetales said:

i actually enjoyed the episode. Yeah, it was negative, but it was mainly drected towards the people that constantly belittle and yell at hasbro for doing so-and-so. Fame and misfortune was equivelent to one big "buck you" to that part of the fanbase. I fully agree with them. Ive had enough of those people, plenty of others had enough, and now hasbros had enough. 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Toon4Thought 273]

I guess one other thing I should point out is that - no matter how much these fans deserve to be taken down a peg, no matter how true what they're saying is - this show is not the kind that should be this brutally honest, simply because the show is supposed to be optimistic. Even episodes that have more negative moments always end with an ideal resolution. This doesn't.

[Truffles 2,033]

13 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

The show can poke fun at the fandom without being lazy.

This pretty much sums up the main problem with the episode. It was lazy. Even the writer of the episode has admitted what we saw was not meant to be the final product and for whatever reason that's the script they went with anyway. With more work, a good story and moral could be honed from it, with the meta humor even being really funny for fans of the show. But the cardboard cutout antagonists and pat ending make this episode mediocre at best and awful at worst.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,220]

1 hour ago, Ninetales said:

i actually enjoyed the episode. Yeah, it was negative, but it was mainly drected towards the people that constantly belittle and yell at hasbro for doing so-and-so. Fame and misfortune was equivelent to one big "buck you" to that part of the fanbase. I fully agree with them. Ive had enough of those people, plenty of others had enough, and now hasbros had enough.

i mean, every time i see someone complain, complain,complain, complain, and complain, it just makes me want to [THINK OF THE FILLIES NINETALES, THINK OF THE FILLIES]! Im honestly sick of them and by F.A.M, hasbro hqs announced its sick of them, too. 

I just felt that it was done poorly. A jab at the fandom is fine, but it becomes pointless if they abandon quality just to do that. And again, there was no real representation of the other side of the fandom by the end. It seemed to paint the entire fandom in a negative light. Why I think this is because of the two fillies who apparently appreciated the book and whatnot. It was two fillies that appreciated it. Which really makes it seem like they think that only the little girls in the world appreciate the show for what it is and not the fandom. You know, the fandom that saved the show from a typical 3 season run.

All they needed to do was handle this a little bit differently. Show representation of both sides. Show the bad but also the good in the fandom.

Trust me, I normally am fine with most of what this show does, and I even like some episodes that have a bad rep among the fandom, but this episode not only seemed bad to me, it seemed petty and uncalled for.

[Libra 11,690]

32 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

I just felt that it was done poorly. A jab at the fandom is fine, but it becomes pointless if they abandon quality just to do that. And again, there was no real representation of the other side of the fandom by the end. It seemed to paint the entire fandom in a negative light. Why I think this is because of the two fillies who apparently appreciated the book and whatnot. It was two fillies that appreciated it. Which really makes it seem like they think that only the little girls in the world appreciate the show for what it is and not the fandom. You know, the fandom that saved the show from a typical 3 season run.

All they needed to do was handle this a little bit differently. Show representation of both sides. Show the bad but also the good in the fandom.

Trust me, I normally am fine with most of what this show does, and I even like some episodes that have a bad rep among the fandom, but this episode not only seemed bad to me, it seemed petty and uncalled for.

bad? Its not displaying the bad, its just the bad apples are usually the most vocal, and you know what they say, those who yellthe loundest get the attention. I understand its poor, its negative, people dont like it, but for once, im willing to pat hasbro for finallty standing up to the katrina sized garbage storms those """"""""""""""" fans"""""""""""""" are throwing atfinallyputtini have made it clear. I really do not like those type of people whatsoever, so even its its writing is sloppy, i love that after all that garbage, hasbro is finally putting its foot down. Kyoshi, i can go into further detailin pms if you so request.

 

[Dark Qiviut 22,160]

1 hour ago, Truffles said:

This pretty much sums up the main problem with the episode. It was lazy. Even the writer of the episode has admitted what we saw was not meant to be the final product and for whatever reason that's the script they went with anyway. With more work, a good story and moral could be honed from it, with the meta humor even being really funny for fans of the show. But the cardboard cutout antagonists and pat ending make this episode mediocre at best and awful at worst.

MA Larson said the contrary, according to what he said at BronyCAN. The entire script was his, but the ideas, premise, and outline aren't. Before he wrote the script, he didn't like the outline for F&M, because every background character was a major asshole, and none of them learn a lesson. He proposed a Pinkie Pie episode to represent an allegory of Twitter/social media and the viciousness sent to her. Unlike this piece of shit, the background characters would feel terrible, apologize, and bring her donuts. But his idea was rejected and he was forced to stick with everything given to him. Larson stated in the panel he doesn't like F&M for not making sense, being mean-spirited, and the background characters acting abusive.

14 minutes ago, Ninetales said:

bad? Its not displaying the bad, its just the bad apples are usually the most vocal, and you know what they say, those who yellthe loundest get the attention.

That message of only displaying the bad would've been apparent if the episode showed both the good and the bad. Instead, everyone except two tokens at the end are villainous, eighth-dimensional caricatures of fans. These ponies crossed "fan" behavior into needing the cops called on them.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[Libra 11,690]

1 minute ago, Dark Qiviut said:

MA Larson said the contrary, according to what he said at BronyCAN. The entire script was his, but the ideas, premise, and outline aren't. Before he wrote the script, he didn't like what the outline for F&M, because every background character was a major asshole, and none of them learn a lesson. proposed a Pinkie Pie episode to represent an allegory of Twitter/social media and the viciousness sent to her. Unlike this piece of shit, the background characters would feel terrible, apologize, and bring her donuts. But his idea was rejected and he was forced to stick with everything given to him. Larson stated he doesn't like F&M for not making sense, being mean-spirited, and the background characters acting abusive.

That message of only displaying the bad would've been apparent if the episode showed both the good and the bad. Instead, everyone except two tokens at the end are eighth-dimensional caricatures of fans. These ponies crossed "fan" behavior into needing the cops called on them.

I suppose its just a difference of opinion. You didnt like it because of how negative it was, i liked it because it was basicaslly sticking one to the fan dumb portion of the fans. I just have some bias regarding it. However, i will also say not everything is going to be perfect.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

2 hours ago, Toon4Thought said:

I guess one other thing I should point out is that - no matter how much these fans deserve to be taken down a peg, no matter how true what they're saying is - this show is not the kind that should be this brutally honest, simply because the show is supposed to be optimistic. Even episodes that have more negative moments always end with an ideal resolution. This doesn't.

I direct you to the soaring six part harmony ballad at the end.

[Dark Qiviut 22,160]

2 hours ago, Toon4Thought said:

I guess one other thing I should point out is that - no matter how much these fans deserve to be taken down a peg, no matter how true what they're saying is - this show is not the kind that should be this brutally honest, simply because the show is supposed to be optimistic. Even episodes that have more negative moments always end with an ideal resolution. This doesn't.

To add more to what you said, the episode's main moral — ignore the noise and focus on the good impact — is both dishonest and harmful. All the "noise" by the background characters was active, not criticism, and should result in police activity. They abused them, actively made them miserable, and devastated them, yet the episode and ensemble cast handwaved it all as no big deal?

BULLSHIT!!!

Abuse and assault should never be ignored, and given the climate of both last year and this one, it's even worse.

55 minutes ago, Ninetales said:

You didnt like it because of how negative it was

No, I hate F&M because it's terribly written.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[Celli 4,332]

2 hours ago, Toon4Thought said:

I guess one other thing I should point out is that - no matter how much these fans deserve to be taken down a peg, no matter how true what they're saying is - this show is not the kind that should be this brutally honest, simply because the show is supposed to be optimistic. Even episodes that have more negative moments always end with an ideal resolution. This doesn't.

I disagree.

55 minutes ago, Ninetales said:

I suppose its just a difference of opinion. You didnt like it because of how negative it was, i liked it because it was basicaslly sticking one to the fan dumb portion of the fans. I just have some bias regarding it. However, i will also say not everything is going to be perfect.

This. Saying the episode is bad is not objective. There's no right or wrong opinion on the episode. Or any episode for that matter.

[Libra 11,690]

7 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

To add more to what you said, the episode's main moral — ignore the noise and focus on the good impact — is both dishonest and harmful. All the "noise" by the background characters was active, not criticism, and should result in police activity. They abused them, actively made them miserable, and devastated them, yet the episode and ensemble cast handwaved it all as no big deal?

BULLSHIT!!!

Abuse and assault should never be ignored, and given the climate of both last year and this one, it's even worse.

No, I hate F&M because it's terribly written.

Fair enough. Not everything is perfect

[Celli 4,332]

4 minutes ago, Ninetales said:

Fair enough. Not everything is perfect

And nothing in media is objective. 

[Libra 11,690]

11 minutes ago, Celli said:

And nothing in media is objective. 

 

Bad memes aside, everything can be opinion based.

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

Considering what the writers have to deal with when fans confront them via on Twitter, at conventions, or anything else, having this episode poke fun at the fandom can be viewed as being warranted. The writers are doing their best with what they are allowed to write about--Hasbro calls the shots as they own the brand--yet people still complain for reasons that are a mixture of serious to being downright ridiculous. Granted, there is a fine line that should never be crossed and while some fans have crossed said line, the writers should refrain from doing the same thing otherwise the cycle keeps going with no end to it. I still get laughs at how this episode turned out because I see it as harmless fun that shows the writers are aware of what some in the fandom are thinking.