Fame and Misfortune: Bad feels

[Toon4Thought 273]

3 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

I just felt that it was done poorly. A jab at the fandom is fine, but it becomes pointless if they abandon quality just to do that. And again, there was no real representation of the other side of the fandom by the end. It seemed to paint the entire fandom in a negative light. Why I think this is because of the two fillies who apparently appreciated the book and whatnot. It was two fillies that appreciated it. Which really makes it seem like they think that only the little girls in the world appreciate the show for what it is and not the fandom. You know, the fandom that saved the show from a typical 3 season run.

All they needed to do was handle this a little bit differently. Show representation of both sides. Show the bad but also the good in the fandom.

Trust me, I normally am fine with most of what this show does, and I even like some episodes that have a bad rep among the fandom, but this episode not only seemed bad to me, it seemed petty and uncalled for.

They really should've gone with the transition route like they usually do with these kinds of stories, where they legitimately show the townsponies getting positive vibes from it before it spirals out of control. Why they didn't go with that, I will never know.

That, and actually have the townsponies learn not to be a-holes and apologize to the Mane 6. This is something I know MA Larson would've done if he had it his way, but the higher-ups wouldn't let him.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Toon4Thought

[Megas 27,048]

I can understand being upset with an episode, the show's churned out plenty of bad episodes that still bug me to no end, but Fame And Misfortune isn't one of them. If anything, this episode shows that this fandom really needs to grow thicker skin. A lot of things the episode brings up are really spot on and were probably shared experiences the writers have experienced in the past

[Singe 2,109]

The episode seemed more like the Mane 6 have their own defined perspectives and expectations of how others were suppose act. They got overwhelmed by the other ponies that didn't fit their world view, while at the same time bombarded by the perspectives and expectations of those ponies. It's like left vs right.

[Octavia_Melody2 187]

I thought it was ok. It's fine to parody the fandom a bit. There is far worse behavior from the darker side of the fandom in real life and far worse critiques and parodies. The only part I thought was bizarre was when the Mane Six kept insisting that everyone should pay attention to their lessons and learn from them and that the books weren't about marketing. If we treat the episode as a metaphor, then the show is mostly marketing (hence "buy our toys!") and not necessarily the best at teaching morals (not bad but VeggieTales does it better in my opinion).

Also, Twilight insists that the events of the show are her real life experiences and can't be critiqued as bad writing but since the ponies are fictional that means the show does have good and bad writing. But I guess it could also be a cry for help from the real life shenanigans the voice actors put up with.

[Thrond 3,257]

At the time I tried to back off from my initial negative gut reaction, and I still think that was the right call, but thinking about this episode still just makes me feel unpleasant in a way that few other episodes do. I get that it's largely trying to get back at the obnoxious/toxic side of the fanbase, but I dunno, there's things about it which still rub me the wrong way. 

7 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

Why I think this is because of the two fillies who apparently appreciated the book and whatnot. It was two fillies that appreciated it. Which really makes it seem like they think that only the little girls in the world appreciate the show for what it is and not the fandom.

I've generally backed away from this interpretation due to the fact that there were some unpleasant kids as well, but it does still seem a little one-sided. 

 

[Octavia_Melody2 187]

Remember the ending musical number?

 

We're voice actors!

And we're all white crackers!

Sometimes fans can act like jerks!

But it's the fans who buy our work!

 

Sorry, I had to...

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

3 hours ago, Kiryu-Chan said:

 A lot of things the episode brings up are really spot on and were probably shared experiences the writers have experienced in the past

Exactly this. People seem to be missing the point of this episode, it is not about the fandom. It is about the writers, editors, all the show staff in fact, and their negative experiences dealing with fandom, and all that goes with it.

How do I know it’s about the staff?

Because the staff(main six) are the ones who learn the lesson at the end, that they can’t control how others think of them or the work they do, but they can control how they let it effect them. And that even if it’s a hassle sometimes, as long as their work is reaching and helping the ones it’s meant for, that’s good enough for them.

[Truffles 2,033]

16 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

MA Larson said the contrary, according to what he said at BronyCAN. The entire script was his, but the ideas, premise, and outline aren't. Before he wrote the script, he didn't like the outline for F&M, because every background character was a major asshole, and none of them learn a lesson. He proposed a Pinkie Pie episode to represent an allegory of Twitter/social media and the viciousness sent to her. Unlike this piece of shit, the background characters would feel terrible, apologize, and bring her donuts. But his idea was rejected and he was forced to stick with everything given to him. Larson stated in the panel he doesn't like F&M for not making sense, being mean-spirited, and the background characters acting abusive.

That message of only displaying the bad would've been apparent if the episode showed both the good and the bad. Instead, everyone except two tokens at the end are villainous, eighth-dimensional caricatures of fans. These ponies crossed "fan" behavior into needing the cops called on them.

Thanks for the clarification. I admit I had read multiple articles from separate interviews and did my best to synthesize what had really led to the creation of this episode, and it's good to get all the details straight. I guess my real point was me trying to say if the writer himself thought the episode should not have been done the way it was, then why should we as the audience think otherwise?

 

16 hours ago, Ninetales said:

I suppose its just a difference of opinion. You didnt like it because of how negative it was, i liked it because it was basicaslly sticking one to the fan dumb portion of the fans. I just have some bias regarding it. However, i will also say not everything is going to be perfect.

I didn't like it because it's a terribly written episode. If the fans hadn't been jerks but created a conflict in some other way that made them appear just as one-dimensional, I would still consider it poorly executed.

For another example let's switch gears a bit and take Spike's mysterious non-appearance in this episode. He wrote in the journal in S4 like the Mane 6 and he lives at the castle - which is where most of the events of this episode take place. Yet he's nowhere to be found. Sure, we can come up with reasons retroactively for him to be away, but why not do that like they did in "Once Upon a Zeppelin?" It's not like this episode is filled with so many fantastic scenes that none of them could be cut to allow him to be included or him or give room to explain why he's away. Again, it just looks like lazy writing.

It's funny how much this episode and "Zeppelin" are like two sides of the same coin - not only did they get the fans right in the latter, they even nailed the explanation as to why Spike wouldn't be part of the story. I loved "Zeppelin" even though it mirrors much of this episode and it's all because of how thoughtfully it was executed.

If you need another example, "Honest Apple" is another episode I dislike and it doesn't make fun of the fans at all. AJ was just terribly written, and that was enough to sink it.

[Libra 11,690]

1 minute ago, Truffles said:

Thanks for the clarification. I admit I had read multiple articles from separate interviews and did my best to synthesize what had really led to the creation of this episode, and it's good to get all the details straight. I guess my real point was me trying to say if the writer himself thought the episode should not have been done the way it was, then why should we as the audience think otherwise?

 

I didn't like it because it's a terribly written episode. If the fans hadn't been jerks but created a conflict in some other way that made them appear just as one-dimensional, I would still consider it poorly executed.

For another example let's switch gears a bit and take Spike's mysterious non-appearance in this episode. He wrote in the journal in S4 like the Mane 6 and he lives at the castle - which is where most of the events of this episode take place. Yet he's nowhere to be found. Sure, we can come up with reasons retroactively for him to be away, but why not do that like they did in "Once Upon a Zeppelin?" It's not like this episode is filled with so many fantastic scenes that none of them could be cut to allow him to be included or him or give room to explain why he's away. Again, it just looks like lazy writing.

It's funny how much this episode and "Zeppelin" are like two sides of the same coin - not only did they get the fans right in the latter, they even nailed the explanation as to why Spike wouldn't be part of the story. I loved "Zeppelin" even though it mirrors much of this episode and it's all because of how thoughtfully it was executed.

If you need another example, "Honest Apple" is another episode I dislike and it doesn't make fun of the fans at all. AJ was just terribly written, and that was enough to sink it.

I understand its poorly writen, ive been told that PLENTY of times, i get it, thank you.

[Truffles 2,033]

1 minute ago, Ninetales said:

I understand its poorly writen, ive been told that PLENTY of times, i get it, thank you.

My apologies for sounding like I was picking on you. I needed an example of a comment from someone stating the reasons we didn't didn't like it was because of the negative portrayal of the fans, and your bold orange text stood out really well against the other similar comments. 

[Libra 11,690]

Just now, Truffles said:

My apologies for sounding like I was picking on you. I needed an example of a comment from someone stating the reasons we didn't didn't like it was because of the negative portrayal of the fans, and your bold orange text stood out really well against the other similar comments. 

No problem. I just get salty when im told the same thing two hundred times, and im sure this fandom doesnt want to tell me the same thing two hundred times.

its not the william shakespeare of writing, i get it. I got the message the first time.

[Celli 4,332]

@Truffles @Ninetales It's not objective fact that it's poorly written, it's only down to personal opinion.

[Libra 11,690]

6 minutes ago, Celli said:

@Truffles @Ninetales It's not objective fact that it's poorly written, it's only down to personal opinion.

I know. Like i said, its really up to personal taste.

[Celli 4,332]

4 minutes ago, Ninetales said:

I know. Like i said, its really up to personal taste.

Yeah, just that some people tend to say something is "objectively" bad or good when it really isn't.

[Libra 11,690]

19 minutes ago, Celli said:

Yeah, just that some people tend to say something is "objectively" bad or good when it really isn't.

i whole heartingly agree.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

On 2017-11-11 at 10:49 PM, Kyoshi said:

And again, there was no real representation of the other side of the fandom by the end.

There wasn't any need to. Contrary to popular belief, the main goal of the episode wasn't to make fun of the fandom, it was to teach the lesson that you shouldn't let other peoples opinions about you and what you do effect you and the writers just decided to throw in some jokes about the fandom.  

 

Besides, had the episode been about the good part of the fandom, you wouldn't exactly cry for "real representation" of the bad side of it. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Yamet

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,223]

22 minutes ago, Yamet said:

There wasn't any need to. Contrary to popular belief, the main goal of the episode wasn't to make fun of the fandom, it was to teach the lesson that you shouldn't let other peoples opinions about you and what you do effect you and the writers just decided to throw in some jokes about the fandom.  

 

Besides, had the episode been about the good part of the fandom, you wouldn't exactly cry for "real representation" of the bad side of it. 

No, I wouldn't, because I wouldn't see the point. That is one of the reasons I don't like this episode, the fandom jokes were outdated and out of place. And of course they had to sacrifice any logic just to get those jabs across. For me, it made the episode uncomfortable and at times, annoying.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

2 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

No, I wouldn't, because I wouldn't see the point.

Then why on earth are you making such a fuss about there not being any representation of the good side of the fandom now?

Edited November 14, 2017 by Yamet

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,223]

3 minutes ago, Yamet said:

Then why on earth are you making such a fuss about there not being any representation of the good side of the fandom now?

Because showing the good is better than showing the bad? If they wanted to go so far to ruin the episode to take those jabs at the bad parts of the fandom, why not throw in the good parts then too? This fandom may have its flaws and have had some bad moments, but the support it has provided to the show has been immense. So only focusing on the negative aspects just seems wrong.

[Will Guide 21,325]

@Kyoshi

One of my beliefs in life is that if you don't like something, don't waste your time complaining about it all the time and look for the good like the two fillies at the end who see the value in the Journal!

I don't like the Simpsons, but do you see me going around the Internet saying how much they suck? No. 

I just ignore them and let those people who enjoy it be.

Edited November 14, 2017 by WiiGuy2014
Missing words

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,223]

4 minutes ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

@Kyoshi

One of my beliefs in life is that if you don't like something, don't waste your time complaining about it all the time and look for the good like the two fillies at the end who see the value in the Journal!

I don't like the Simpsons, but do you see me going around the Internet saying how much they suck? No. 

I just ignore them and let those people who enjoy it be.

Except this is a forum dedicated to the show, and a thread dedicated to the episode I am talking about. I am not saying people can't enjoy it. I think this episode is a pile of garbage but if others enjoy it, then so be it. That doesn't mean I can't share my viewpoints towards it just because my view towards it is not positive. basically what you are asking for is for everything to be one-sided and that's not gonna happen.

You tell me to let others be that enjoy it. You can just as easily ignore anything I say. Not like anything I say matters in the slightest anyways.

[Will Guide 21,325]

15 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

. basically what you are asking for is for everything to be one-sided and that's not gonna happen.

I'm not asking for things to be one-sided. I'll acknowledge people's negative complaints as long as they're not being repeated over and over to my face. People need to see BOTH the negative AND the positives. This is the point I'm trying to make.

I'm not trying to offend you or anything. It's just tiring to me to hear nothing but negatives without acknowledging the positives like the fillies at the end of the episode.

Edited November 14, 2017 by WiiGuy2014
Bold my point

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,223]

10 minutes ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

I'm not asking for things to be one-sided. I'll acknowledge people's negative complaints as long as they're not being repeating over and over to my face.

I'm not trying to offend you or anything. It's just tiring to me to hear nothing but negatives without acknowledging the positives like the fillies at the end of the episode.

A thread on a forum is not exactly 'in your face'.

And I do acknowledge that part of the episode, but I just don't see it as a positive either, I've already explained why.

I don't want to derail this thread further so I will just leave it at that.

[Will Guide 21,325]

Just now, Kyoshi said:

And I do acknowledge that part of the episode, but I just don't see it as a positive either, I've already explained why.

Can you link me to it? Cause I missed it.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

21 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

Because showing the good is better than showing the bad?

It's equally important, if you ask me. I mean, how can one improve anything if you keep ignoring the bad?  

 

21 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

If they wanted to go so far to ruin the episode to take those jabs at the bad parts of the fandom, why not throw in the good parts then too?

Because it would be completely pointless. Plus, it would feel increadibly forced. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Yamet