Denim&Venöm

Spoiler So, The Last Jedi Came Out

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And frankly, it was a bit of a disappointment. 

While it was an improvement in the fact that it wasn't just another Empire Strikes Back clone, having quite a few original ideas and moments compared to Force Awakens, it didn't wow or excite me as the prior film, nor did it really answer any of the questions TFE asked. 

Who were Rey's parents? Didn't matter. Who was Supreme leader Snoke? Didn't matter. How did the first order get so strong, not just overall, but since the last movie? Didn't get answered. What was the next step in Kylo's training to become a Sith? Didn't matter.  What drove Luke into hiding? Answer fell kinda flat. 

Despite the variety of locations, the movie felt small in scale. It was essentially one big case scene. All the other places were boring or of little consequence. The entire casino sub-plot felt like a bait and switch. The conflict between Po and the vice admiral felt forced, with neither side being in the right or wrong. A few choices made by the fleet felt dumb, just to heighten the tension. And Rey's journey to Luke wasn't insightful. It was boring. The whole movie felt really small in scale. Even smaller than Rogue One.

And that ending. Usually you get left with an indication of where the next film is going. But this felt more vague and open ended. Almost like something to conclude the trilogy with. We were all also expecting something spectacular to happen with Luke, but he just disappeared. Literally. What kind of ending is that to such an iconic character?  

Add to that moments that didn't make the new cast look as strong or definitive as they were in the last film, while also putting the older cast in the back seat, and no one really shined all that well. 

There were good moments. That was one hell of an opening they had. Really highlighted the desperation of the Rebellion in an innovative battle scene. The fights and duels were done very well. And it was about damn time somebody used a ship in a light speed kamikaze run. No one really gets how destructive something like a grain of sand travelling at light speed can be, let alone a whole star ship. It made sense and looked spectacular (though why the hell didn't they do that with the other two ships they had?). 

All in all, while this film looked spectacular and had it's moments, The Last Jedi was bland and convoluted. My dad said it best. He didn't hate it, but it didn't blow him away either. 

What about you? Is the film better than I stated? Worse? Was it worth the wait? 

 

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Never before have I seen a Star Wars... anything... that's had so many contenders for the Dethroning Moment Of Suck section on TV Tropes.

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I watch Star Wars The last Jedi enjoyed it. Of course there should, tell about Rey's Parents and more info about Supreme leader and how first Order rebuild. but I enjoyed and like the movie.

I was nerves that it going to another Empire Stike back or had ending like Rouge One like main characters dies. But it didn't happen. Gald to see some more of BB8 and liking Porg. I dislike people of Canto Bight and DJ (Hope he get what he deserves (Not sure what happen to him last time he appeared).

Luke now join the Force, wonder what kind of Jedi master Rey. I know it weird but when Rey be train as Jedi and be using force I expect she use force by doing handstand like Luke did in return of a Jedi. (Don't judge me).

People will have different opition, some love it, like it or dislike it. I like it.

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I agree with everything Denim&Venom said. There was no exposition or back story, an utter lack of focus, bad pacing, awkward writing, etc. From what I assumed watching the trailer was that Rey was going to temporarily turn to the dark side and join Kylo Ren (Luke even implies this in the movie) but then that whole direction fell flat and they killed off Snoke without giving him any backstory. Then they do a fakeout where Luke "dies" only to pop right back up only to literally disappear moments later. Why not just have Kylo Ren straight up kill Luke? I thought the film was a mess. Both TFA and Rogue One were better, or at least had clear structure.

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I haven't seen it yet but I know I'll most likely enjoy it. So far TFA was miles better than the awful prequels, though nothing will ever top A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, or Return of the Jedi.

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It was fucking glorious. I've watched a very review videos and some of the complaints from the negative reviews are really great for my ego, because a lot of people missed some things. I love a film that makes me feel more intelligent than other people. :smug:

16 hours ago, Denim&Venom said:

Who were Rey's parents? Didn't matter.

Matters quite a bit actually. What the film said was dynasties don't matter. Legends don't matter. Anyone can be a hero. We already know 99.9% of the Jedi don't come from a lineage. Even uber powerful ones like Yoda and Mace. Her coming from nowhere is a poetically juxtaposed concept when placed in front of Ben Solo. 

16 hours ago, Denim&Venom said:

Who was Supreme leader Snoke? Didn't matter.

Correct. And I prefer this. He was a vehicle to elevate Kylo above Vader. Kylo succeeded where Vader failed. "The burden of being a Master."

 

16 hours ago, Denim&Venom said:

How did the first order get so strong, not just overall, but since the last movie?

Canto Bight. That's all I'll say. You need to figure that out on your own. I have to chuckle at the fans who said that segment didn't matter. So many people missed it. XD

Star Wars (at least the Original Trilogy) is known for weaving a tapestry without complete information inviting the fans to fill in the blanks. That's what makes Star Wars dear for the fans in my age group who actually trend more positive with this film than the division that I'm witnessing with younger fans. We don't want everything explained. We want mystery. We want the control that comes with the collaborative nature of being an audience member with not everything laid out on a platter. 

Honestly, it doesn't bother me that people dislike this film, because I got something better than I expected, and I'm selfishly happy with this result and the fact that Rian Johnson is doing is own trilogy. 

 

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I enjoyed the film more than I thought I would considering all the negative things I have heard about the film.

How do we know Rey's parents were nobodies? Kylo Ren said this to her. For all we know he could have been lying to her just to try to get her on his side. Or am I missing something?

Also, why does Rey seem so strong in the ways of the force? This still hasn't really been answered...I guess there is always the third movie.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, joanro said:

I enjoyed the film more than I thought I would considering all the negative things I have heard about the film.

How do we know Rey's parents were nobodies? Kylo Ren said this to her. For all we know he could have been lying to her just to try to get her on his side. Or am I missing something?

Also, why does Rey seem so strong in the ways of the force? This still hasn't really been answered...I guess there is always the third movie.

There really won't be much of answer except saying some higher power wanted it that way. Rey is going to be the "Moana" Maui of Star Wars.

Movie ends with Rey singing You're Welcome.

 

Edited by Singe

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Honestly, I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I didn't dislike it, but I feel let down I guess. I'm gonna agree with a lot of what Venom said though. There was a lot of stuff that happened, but not really. Everything happened so fast that I don't really know why I should care about who or what happened at all. New major character? Don't bother wondering about them because they're not gonna serve any real purpose. Old major character? They're dead now and it was quiet and easily dismissable because they weren't one of the main 3 or Kylo. I cried when Han died because it was a shock, it was upsetting, the characters were upset. Luke gets tired from a battle he didn't actually do anything in and just disappears (yes, I know that's simplifying it, but even Obi-wan actually clashed sabers before being cut down). Ackbar get's violently blown into space and nothing is said besides confirming it. If you're going to kill characters that we know, then let us care about it instead of making it the least eventful thing while you try and make us feel something for the new character that essentially went from introduction to death

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4 hours ago, joanro said:

Also, why does Rey seem so strong in the ways of the force? This still hasn't really been answered...I guess there is always the third movie.

Snoke mentions this directly. Think of the Force as a balanced scale. If one aspect becomes too strong, then the other side would need to rise just as strong. 

Interestingly this brings up an curious observation regarding the Rule of Two that the Sith had. This may be the reason that one Sith usually required multiple Jedi to defeat him, and why they were usually strong AF. 

1 hour ago, HeroSparks said:

(yes, I know that's simplifying it, but even Obi-wan actually clashed sabers before being cut down)

I can answer this and another element people mentioned having an issue with ... 

Curiously, Luke could have clashed sabers if he wanted to. At times he projected as a solid figure, and even crated a solid illusion of the dice. Other times he was intangible. Like the Leia space seen, this isn't an ability that is new to the film. Both have been done previously in books and comics. Rian Johnson borrowed heavily from the old EU with Force Projection. 

Same with the Leia surviving in space. A Force user can actually slow his metabolism. A normal human can actually be awake 15 seconds in the vacuum of space before they pass out. Since heat leaves the body very slowly, and as long as the explosion force General Organa to expel the air in the lungs, she may have survived exposure for almost that long anyway. Now add the ability to instinctually create a Force bubble (What Jedi do when then are in battle), she gains extra protection. 

As far as why Luke didn't physically clash lightsabers, I have a feeling that Luke fought a purely defensive battle out of need and personal preference. Anyway, it's the same ability fans would recognize in non films. It even worked the same with electronics (Threepio could see Luke and the Walker's targeting scanners picked him up).

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22 hours ago, Jeric said:

Matters quite a bit actually. What the film said was dynasties don't matter. Legends don't matter. Anyone can be a hero. We already know 99.9% of the Jedi don't come from a lineage. Even uber powerful ones like Yoda and Mace. Her coming from nowhere is a poetically juxtaposed concept when placed in front of Ben Solo. 

Good concept. Poor execution. When that much hype and speculation are generated, there needs to be proper payoff. And the revelation that Rey's parents were nobodies just fell flat. Just mentioned in a few passing lines and never visted again once Rey clashes w/ Kylo. Some better description. A flash back. Rey reflecting on it at the end of the film, over how the bonds she's formed are stronger than those of family (the actual meaning behind the "blood is thicker..." saying) would've made a world of difference. 

22 hours ago, Jeric said:

Correct. And I prefer this. He was a vehicle to elevate Kylo above Vader. Kylo succeeded where Vader failed. "The burden of being a Master."

Wasn't much of an elevation. Kylo killing Snoke didn't have the same impact had Vader done the same to the Emperor. Snoke had all this hype, plenty of potential to show why he's the new big bad of Star wars. But he came off as Palpatine lite. His execution, figuratively and literally, was premature. Yes, Kylo now has the 'burden', but it wasn't much of an elevation when he killed someone that had less emotional heft and investment than Captain Phasma. In my eyes, Kylo is still in the same spot he started the movie with. 

Sorry, but out of all the second feature movies in this franchise, this one felt the weakest. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Denim&Venom said:

Wasn't much of an elevation.

Worked for me. 

37 minutes ago, Denim&Venom said:

there needs to be proper payoff. And the revelation that Rey's parents were nobodies just fell flat

Worked for me

22 hours ago, Jeric said:

Honestly, it doesn't bother me that people dislike this film, because I got something better than I expected, and I'm selfishly happy with this result

Quoting myself. What you see as flaws, I adored. Opinions are weird like that. I got something that was better than I expected. I expected good, I got fantastic. 

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I'm seeing it tomorrow and I fully expect my thoughts to mirror @Jeric's especially going off what I've heard of the film so far.

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I jumped in and I asked: Where are all the exciting new characters?

 

Disney was like:

 

5a38541ec2d17_456-Kopija.jpg.7c6ab5a8bbf4377cc1e5f368f09afce2.jpg

gg go next

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5 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

I jumped in and I asked: Where are all the exciting new characters?

 

 

 

Disney was like:

 

 

 

5a38541ec2d17_456-Kopija.jpg.7c6ab5a8bbf4377cc1e5f368f09afce2.jpg

 

gg go next

 

Okay there Mister Plinkett

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1 hour ago, Celli said:

I'm seeing it tomorrow and I fully expect my thoughts to mirror @Jeric's especially going off what I've heard of the film so far.

Just to be fair, there are some minor issues I had with it. Things that I wanted to see happen that didn't. Overall it didn't impact the complete picture of satisfaction I had with this film. There is a reason why the thing got a Cinamascore of an A. I'll take statistical science over unscientific polling methodology any day of the week. 

For appropriate context, here's how I rank the films. 

 

Empire - A+

A New Hope A+

Last Jedi A

Return of the Jedi A

The Force Awakens B+

Rogue One B

Revenge of the Sith B-

The Phantom Menace C

Attack of the Clones D+

 

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@Jeric Similar ranking but I'd probably rate Revenge a bit lower, maybe a C, and phantom menace and Attack of the Clones a D and F respectively.

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I'm glad people are finally starting to realize these movies have no purpose, no direction, and they're just making shit up as they go along.

Of course they'll continue to make money because Disney bought an established name and some people just like seeing stuff happen on screen.

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20 hours ago, Fluttershutter said:

I'm glad people are finally starting to realize these movies have no purpose, no direction, and they're just making shit up as they go along.

Like the Original Trilogy? 

The episodic nature of the films tend to lend itself to dynamic storytelling, a hallmark of this series and most television shows. Any die hard fan knows that from the initial draft in 1975, the story has been constantly revised. From Vader dying at the end of the first film, to Vader being Anakin, to Luke and Leia being siblings, to elements in all three of the prequels. None of the films had a master plan or true direction. Lucas certainly made up a lot of it as he went along. It's called development. 

Casual fans and non fans who just like the films don't care if the saga has a master plan. Most multi episode stories don't. Doesn't matter if it's a film series, or television show, or book series. Hell, any writer worth anything will tell you that what they initially thought of as an ending usually doesn't materialize as they keep writing -- regardless of whether you are a plotter or pantser. 

I completely understand why people may be upset at some of the twists in The Last Jedi, but to suggest that has anything to do with a lack of direction isn't really grounded in logic. 

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I saw the movie and while it had a few issues that bugged me I thought it was fantastic overall. Highlights were Yoda's appearance, lightspeeding into the main Star destroyer, seriously that was EPIC. 

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I honestly haven't even watched The Force Awakens yet, and I'm not sure if I would care to watch it over other things like Star Trek or Adventure Time, or quite a few things I'd care not to list.

 

However, from the little I've gathered it sounds like it wasn't too bad, and I may watch it sometime down the road.

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9 hours ago, Celli said:

I saw the movie and while it had a few issues that bugged me I thought it was fantastic overall. Highlights were Yoda's appearance, lightspeeding into the main Star destroyer, seriously that was EPIC. 

Both of those were almost pitch perfect. Though, I would have loved if Ackbar stayed alive to help Holdo so he could go out like a legend. 

The use of the OT music cues at times were epic. Han's theme when Luke gave Leia the dice, Luke's theme when he saw the binary sun's at the end. 

The character growth was also tremendous. Poe becomes a leader. (something not possible without his TWO huge mistakes -- Canto Bight and his refusal to retreat at the beginning). Luke regaining a sense of purpose. Rey realizing that in the end it's her journey and not just anchored by a lineage. Finn finding his own purpose and choosing to fight for a larger cause. Kylo finally making a choice. 

I honestly love that choice and free will was a huge theme here, and it stands in fantastic contrast to the whole destiny thing we have seen over and over. 

To me it was pretty much like Return of the Jedi. Overall decent with some little moments that could have been better. But the highlights far outweigh the negatives. 

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@Jeric I have to wonder what's going to happen in the last one now. We'll have to see in two years.

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7 minutes ago, Celli said:

@Jeric I have to wonder what's going to happen in the last one now. We'll have to see in two years.

That's the best part. I have no freaking clue! The story is literally wide open now. Since JJ is doing it it will likely have a similar tone to TFA. 

Things I would be happy to see ... 

 

A memorial for General Leia. 

The Knights of Ren

Force Ghost Luke

Lando 

 

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I personally had fun with it, and as long as it's entertaining, that's the most important thing.

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