Season 7: The Season of Jerk Ponies

[AlbaTross 1,581]

Is it just me or has there been an unprecedented amount of jerks this past season?  It started with the specialists in Fluttershy Leans In, and I swear there were quite a few more episodes where ponies were not exactly the nicest.  The ponies in Once Upon a Zeppelin weren't great, but they look like saints compared to some ponies this season.  My opinion on Roseluck and the Quills and Sofas pony went down considerably after seeing It Isn't the Mane Thing About You.  I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the fan store pony before but he's just as bad.  Quantity wise, Fame and Misfortune takes the cake, but if there's an individual pony who I think is worse than all, it's that doctor in A Health of Information.  Screw that guy.  He's worse than Featherbang.

Actually, almost all of the Mane Six have even had a moment or two that don't make them look so good.  Applejack was a jerk to the fashion ponies, Pinkie sprayed foam that's not easily removed on Rarity's mane, and everypony but Fluttershy and maybe Twilight to an extent were too busy to help out Zecora in her time of need.  Nevermind that Rarity and Pinkie went to her for help in the previous episode.  

In fact, it seems like few visits to Zecora are actual social calls. While we're on the subject, Zecora did all the work in getting that moss for Fluttershy, who's a flipping Pegasus and wouldn't have fallen into the swamp.  Yeah, I take back that Fluttershy hasn't had her jerk moment.  Of course, Twilight was more interested in having her beauty sleep rather than pulling an all-nighter, because she loves research projects like that, but I guess a friend's life being on the line isn't a big deal if she's a zebra.

Ok, more than half of that was about A Health of Information, but this season isn't exactly sparse on moments that don't portray ponies in the greatest light.  Rumble was a total brat, but he's one of few cases where I can see the reasoning behind it.  Ok, I can see why Starswirl was upset with Twilight too, but he's a bit of a d-bag isn't he?  Anyways, what are the highlights, or I guess lowlights for you this season regarding jerk ponies?  Do you think I'm exaggerating or were there indeed an inordinate number of jerks this season?  I look forward to whatever fun discussion might come from this.  Oh, and do let me know if I missed any examples.  I'd hate to be anything but thorough.

[King of Canterlot 9,588]

I think you left out the episode "Secrets and pies", when Rainbow Dash was throwing out all of Pinkie Pie's pies. That was a real jerk move on RD's part because not only did she lie about eating Pinkie's pies to her and everyone else, she also threw them away in the garbage when she knew Pinkie had put all that hard work into baking things for ponies. 

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

Mr. Breezy first showed up in the talent show episode whose name currently escapes me. Pretty sure S7 was his first speaking role. I’ll have to give it some thought but it didn’t feel like there were too many instances of characters acting like jerks. 

Edit: So, thinking back, I don’t think this season has been over saturated with jerk characters. A lot of episodes, especially Fluttershy episodes have someone being an ass for the sake of the plot. It’s just a side effect of the shows formula. When the goal of episode is to teach a lesson, your main characters are never going to be anything approaching perfect. 

At least the majority of jerk characters were side or background characters in season seven instead of it being mostly the main six like usual. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by ShootingStar159

[Will Guide 21,325]

@AlbaTross

Sounds like you're missing the point of Fame and Misfortune. It was to show how people in the real world can be jerks. And yet despite all that, you can still find good people to meet and make an impact on for the better.

The lesson the Mane 6 learned was "we can't change how others think about us, but we can choose how we let it affect us or not affect us." An very important lesson that is applicable to the real world. For example, a lot of people hate Zephyr Breeze, despite me personally identifying with him. But I choose to NOT let the Zephyr Hate negatively affect me now as bad as it was over a year ago. Do you Understand my example?

[Truffles 2,033]

1 hour ago, AlbaTross said:

Is it just me or has there been an unprecedented amount of jerks this past season?

You may be onto something here - those are some good examples of ponies acting like jerks. However, I can't say with any certainly S7 had the largest number of jerky characters in a season. I can think of examples from just about every season but don't have a good enough memory to quantify their amounts from all of them without going on a total binge-watch of the entire series.

If I had more time it would be a fun(?) exercise to make an accounting of every time a character has acted like a total jerk in an episode and sum up the numbers to see if S7 really does have the most; or if it's just because it happens to be the season that's the easiest to recall at the moment.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

6 minutes ago, Truffles said:

However, I can't say with any certainly S7 had the largest number of jerky characters in a season.

Exactly, jerk characters have always been part of the show, episodes like Putting Your Hoof Down, Hurricane Fluttershy, Ticket Master, Best Night Ever, Newbie Dash, and these are just ones off the top of my head. I don’t think season seven was any great departure from the norm. 

[Hierok 11,829]

1 hour ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

@AlbaTross

Sounds like you're missing the point of Fame and Misfortune. It was to show how people in the real world can be jerks. And yet despite all that, you can still find good people to meet and make an impact on for the better.

The lesson the Mane 6 learned was "we can't change how others think about us, but we can choose how we let it affect us or not affect us." An very important lesson that is applicable to the real world. For example, a lot of people hate Zephyr Breeze, despite me personally identifying with him. But I choose to NOT let the Zephyr Hate negatively affect me now as bad as it was over a year ago. Do you Understand my example?

I really don't know why so many people hate Fame and Misfortune.  It was all in good fun. 

[AlbaTross 1,581]

2 hours ago, Hieroklicious said:

I really don't know why so many people hate Fame and Misfortune.  It was all in good fun. 

Oh, don't misunderstand me.  I actually like the meta nature of Fame and Misfortune a great deal.  I think the intention was to portray the worst of the fandom and provide a bit of meta commentary into how they might look from a writer's standpoint, and yes, provide a good lesson on how to approach criticism.  The fan ponies were extra mean-spirited towards Rarity though, and that's where I draw the line.  They weren't great to Fluttershy either.  Most of all though, the Mane Six sing a song and that changes nothing.  Apparently M.A. Larson didn't even want to write this episode because he thinks it's mean spirited, and I can kind of see where he's coming from, but I like it just fine.  At least it's good to know that M.A. Larson at least, sees the good side of the fandom.  Too bad he left the show, but I like to think most of the show's staff have seen the positive points of Bronies.  That doesn't mean all those ponies in Fame and Misfortune aren't jerks though.

3 hours ago, King of Canterlot said:

I think you left out the episode "Secrets and pies", when Rainbow Dash was throwing out all of Pinkie Pie's pies. That was a real jerk move on RD's part because not only did she lie about eating Pinkie's pies to her and everyone else, she also threw them away in the garbage when she knew Pinkie had put all that hard work into baking things for ponies. 

Yeah, that was pretty mean-spirited.  RD didn't come off looking very good in that episode.

[Cwanky 17,455]

 

 It wasn't just ponies. The writers really decided to crank up the alpha in Ember and turned her into a culturally insensitive jerk. Dang it, Ember, that's not how all us dragons are.          

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

OP: Seasons 7: The season of Jerk ponies

Sesson 2: Hold my beer!!!

[Singe 2,109]

8 hours ago, King of Canterlot said:

I think you left out the episode "Secrets and pies", when Rainbow Dash was throwing out all of Pinkie Pie's pies. That was a real jerk move on RD's part because not only did she lie about eating Pinkie's pies to her and everyone else, she also threw them away in the garbage when she knew Pinkie had put all that hard work into baking things for ponies. 

I think it goes both ways because on the other hoof it's pretty bad to blindly force something on someone they don't want or like.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

3 hours ago, Singe said:

I think it goes both ways because on the other hoof it's pretty bad to blindly force something on someone they don't want or like.

That’s not fair to Pinkie at all, as far as she knew, Dash loved her pies, she didn’t know she hated them.

[Singe 2,109]

41 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

That’s not fair to Pinkie at all, as far as she knew, Dash loved her pies, she didn’t know she hated them.

It is being considerate to ask before putting in the work and not put them on the spot to make them feel guilty if they refuse the offer. Pinkie Pie can be unreasonable when it comes to saying no.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Singe

[Castle Bleck 19,167]

18 hours ago, Cwanky said:

 

 It wasn't just ponies. The writers really decided to crank up the alpha in Ember and turned her into a culturally insensitive jerk. Dang it, Ember, that's not how all us dragons are.          

 

I thought the jokes were:

 

1. She was actually trying to compliment Derpy's muffin (Remember that part about the Castle Of Friendship making her think Ponies put their best food on the walls?).

 

2. She was genuinely confused because Twilight and Starlight really are a lot alike.

 

 

"Culturally oblivious," yeah, but not "culturally insensitive."

Edited December 22, 2017 by A.V.

[Will Guide 21,325]

8 hours ago, Cwanky said:

 

 It wasn't just ponies. The writers really decided to crank up the alpha in Ember and turned her into a culturally insensitive jerk. Dang it, Ember, that's not how all us dragons are.          

To be fair with Ember, because the dragons come in very distinct sizes and shapes, while most ponies are about the same size and body shape, of course she would have that "you all look so much alike" viewpoint. 

She's not trying to be mean, it's just she's never been around ponies long enough to understand how different things are between the two races

[Singe 2,109]

19 minutes ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

To be fair with Ember, because the dragons come in very distinct sizes and shapes, while most ponies are about the same size and body shape, of course she would have that "you all look so much alike" viewpoint. 

She's not trying to be mean, it's just she's never been around ponies long enough to understand how different things are between the two races

To add on to that, they're two separate species. It's not an unheard of thing for this sort of misunderstanding from making assumptions on cultures to mistakenly identifying individuals to happen.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Singe

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

20 hours ago, King of Canterlot said:

I think you left out the episode "Secrets and pies", when Rainbow Dash was throwing out all of Pinkie Pie's pies. That was a real jerk move on RD's part because not only did she lie about eating Pinkie's pies to her and everyone else, she also threw them away in the garbage when she knew Pinkie had put all that hard work into baking things for ponies. 

Uh, they showed us that she rarely actually threw them away, she gave them to other ponies most of the time.

RD wasn't being a jerk for sparing Pinkies feelings, she was so happy with RD enjoying her pies and RD didn't wan't to ruin that.

[Singe 2,109]

2 hours ago, Ryanmahaffe said:

Uh, they showed us that she rarely actually threw them away, she gave them to other ponies most of the time.

RD wasn't being a jerk for sparing Pinkies feelings, she was so happy with RD enjoying her pies and RD didn't wan't to ruin that.

RD knows what happens when PP isn't happy from Season 1.

Spoiler

She'll go crazy talking to inanimate objects and sit on your face.

 

[sweetolebob18 724]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 1:54 AM, Cwanky said:

 

 It wasn't just ponies. The writers really decided to crank up the alpha in Ember and turned her into a culturally insensitive jerk. Dang it, Ember, that's not how all us dragons are.          

Except for Spike, it pretty much IS how dragons are. Look at Garble & Old Smokey (in Dragonshy), 

[Castle Bleck 19,167]

16 minutes ago, sweetolebob18 said:

Look at Garble & Old Smokey (in Dragonshy), 

 

The one from Dragonshy isn't a good comparison; unlike Garble, he didn't attack anypony until provoked (he simply wanted to be left alone), and he was ultimately willing to be reasonable (thanks, Fluttershy).

Edited December 24, 2017 by A.V.

[sweetolebob18 724]

17 hours ago, A.V. said:

 

The one from Dragonshy isn't a good comparison; unlike Garble, he didn't attack anypony until provoked (he simply wanted to be left alone), and he was ultimately willing to be reasonable (thanks, Fluttershy).

True, he wasn't violent. Just rude & inconsiderate. He didn't give a * about his smoke bothering other folks & he wasn't willing to stop until Fluttershy "persuaded" him to be more reasonable. In short, a jerk

[Singe 2,109]

On 12/24/2017 at 10:42 AM, A.V. said:

 

The one from Dragonshy isn't a good comparison; unlike Garble, he didn't attack anypony until provoked (he simply wanted to be left alone), and he was ultimately willing to be reasonable (thanks, Fluttershy).

There is one thing to add about Dragonshy, the ponies have power over the sun, moon, and the weather. They couldn't come up with a magical solution or technique to deal with smoke.

[Truffles 2,033]

52 minutes ago, Singe said:

There is one thing to add about Dragonshy, the ponies have power over the sun, moon, and the weather. They couldn't come up with a magical solution or technique to deal with smoke.

I suppose if it were the real world they would just install a scrubber (like they use on smokestacks) over the mouth of the cave to get rid of the soot.

[YoungJustice12334 51]

On 12/20/2017 at 11:31 PM, Will Guide said:

@AlbaTross

Sounds like you're missing the point of Fame and Misfortune. It was to show how people in the real world can be jerks. And yet despite all that, you can still find good people to meet and make an impact on for the better.

The lesson the Mane 6 learned was "we can't change how others think about us, but we can choose how we let it affect us or not affect us." An very important lesson that is applicable to the real world. For example, a lot of people hate Zephyr Breeze, despite me personally identifying with him. But I choose to NOT let the Zephyr Hate negatively affect me now as bad as it was over a year ago. Do you Understand my example?

I understand your example and opinion on Zephyr Breeze, but I honestly disagree with them. I have nothing against you liking Zephyr, but He’s not what I would call my favourite character. I get he still lives with his parents, but taking advantage of them really Makes him look like A huge asshole. Especially when he doesn't even try to make a good job and has to get his sister to help him, And i found him to be A pretty pathetic brother To fluttershy if you ask me.

Another reason why he’s my least favorite character is when I saw the interactions between Zephyr and Rainbow Dash In MLP And I honestly found them to be far more cringe-worthy than entertaining. It brought up uncomfortable memories of RD Being pursued by A guy who didn't know how to take no for an answer. Honestly, If they were going to bring this up again they would have to make it very clear that Zephyr's actions are unacceptable and that if someone says they're not interested it means that they are NOT interested. When people say, "Oh, I know you're just playing hard to get/you're hiding how you really feel" it is disrespectful and demeaning. It's also scary because you know that they won't back off no matter how strongly you tell them no.

And Here's my opinion on why I hated the F&M episode:

I know the episode was supposed to be A commentary-type of episode, but it failed terribly at it. Firstly, I noticed the journal was written to show the events of Season 4-5 and Not before or after. So any arguments made about the mane six at the time in the episode don't really apply anymore. Maybe people didn't like Rarity at the time, but I don't think she's that hated now. The guy talking about how Twilight would've been more interesting if she stayed in Canterlot makes no sense since the journal starts after Twilight became an Alicorn. And that also invalidates the "Twilight was better before she got wings".
 

Yeah, people complained that Fluttershy learned the same thing over again, but the writers fixed the problem. That fact makes how the show treats the argument very confusing now that I think about it. The writers themselves recognized this as a problem and made Fluttershy more aggressive. That'd be like if season 4 had an episode calling out Twilight giving out every lesson. Not only would that be outdated, but it'd have been a problem that the writers themselves recognized and fixed. 

Secondly, there are times where the arguments are just plain wrong and downright stupid. This mostly just applies to Rarity's backlash. The only reason given is that Rarity apparently stated that she thinks she did all the work in Simple Ways when that's not true. She said she put in a lot of work and that it was the hardest thing she'd ever done, but she didn't say she did all the work. The only other argument is that they don't think Rarity has learned any of her lessons.
 

First of all, How would they know? Second of all, They could say that for any of the mane six. It honestly makes me think the writers couldn't think of a good reason for things to go wrong for Rarity so they just made stuff up. Thirdly, the friendship journal has a different purpose than the TV show. The journal is obviously a metaphor for the TV show, but that doesn't work because the purpose of the journal is sole as an educational tool while the TV show is also to entertain. All of the talks about the mane six like characters don't work because the journal is not entertainment. Any criticisms against the mane six made from the book are automatically b*** because the journal only documents the lessons made at the end of each episode. The journal does not set out of making characters and tell stories. It's autobiographical and is made to share lessons. The TV show, on the other hand, is fiction. It does set out to tell stories and create characters.

A fair comparison for the journal would be if the TV show was just the friendship lessons from seasons 4-5. Not the rest of the episodes. Just the lessons. If that was true, this episode shouldn't have been made because there'd be no fan criticism to base it on. You can't criticize something like that unless it gives a rancid moral. But that's not one of the criticisms that the episode goes for. Only the stuff that makes no sense in-universe. So yeah, As a commentary on the fanbase, it came across as insulting and just terrible. When Ponyville argued that the mane six aren't real characters, It doesn't work when complaining about the criticisms of this show. It brings up arguments that make no sense in the show's universe and expects the audience to take the episode seriously when it takes the arguments down. By the end, the episode gives such little of a s*** about justifying these arguments in-universe that they are literally using words like "character".
 

Honestly, if the writers had such a big problem with the fans about the criticisms of the show, they should've sent out a tweet talking about it or something like that and start to accept Some criticisms from the fanbase and write better episodes for MLP to educate Kids and adults about relationships, friendship and stuff like that. Another reason why I hated the episode One Bit because The way Ponyville acted was Just awful. Another reason why I found the Fame & Misfortune episode to be absolutely awful because Not only was it horribly written, it also made Ponyville, The LITERAL Hometown The Mane 6 protected since the beginning of the show, into complete Idiotic and heartless morons. I get it, they aren't the way you would want them to be, but that still doesn't give them the right to act like that, especially considering how much they have done to protect Equestria.

The way Ponyville treated The Mane 6 after what they've done to protect Equestria it came across to me as petty and incredibly immature, which are the two traits that describe the writers for making this episode. The writers were pretty stupid to go like "Yeah, let's dedicate an entire episode towards taking s*** about the fandom that made your show go far beyond typical "Kid's Show" syndication" I am not saying the fandom was the sole reason but my points are still valid.

I'm not that much of A fan of M.A. Larson's work, but he did NOT deserve to get screwed over here, and the fact that he was forced to write the episode makes me question Hasbro a lot. I also found the episode to be a staple of the pride and hubris of the later show-runners. There are a lot of Bad MLP Episodes, but the episode Fame & Misfortune took the title with ease. It also felt like A stupid Teen Titans Go! episode trying to make its critics look like idiots.

I mean come On! Twilight was the Damn Princess of Friendship Around that time for crying out loud, Twi and her friends didn't deserve the treatment they received in that episode, and it kind of made Twilight becoming a princess along with The Mane 5 protecting Equestria from evil feel like it was all for nothing if Ponyville just spits in their faces for it. I also prefer if the writers never made the episode and started accepting some of the criticisms from the fan base and started writing better episodes to educate kids and adults about friendship, relationships and stuff like that. So if the writers had such a big problem with the fans and really couldn't think of a good way to present it in an episode, they should've sent out a tweet or something like that.

Do you agree or disagree with me on that? I still hate the F&M episode to this day because The Mane 6 never deserved the terrible treatment from Ponyville.

Edited May 19, 2020 by YoungJustice12334

[Pentium100 2,056]

On 12/21/2017 at 5:28 AM, AlbaTross said:

Of course, Twilight was more interested in having her beauty sleep rather than pulling an all-nighter, because she loves research projects like that, but I guess a friend's life being on the line isn't a big deal if she's a zebra.

By season 7 Twilight is almost a proper Princess and a real Princess does not do the work herself, as exemplified by Celestia. Also, Celestia did her best to make Twilight less and less interested in research projects and "dusty old books", so, I guess, congrats?

Or, maybe Twilight finally figured out that there are diminishing returns on doing something without sleep.