Excessive Video Gaming Will Soon be Recognized as a Mental Disorder by the World Health Organization

[Jeric 46,834]

8 minutes ago, Mirage said:

Then...

So who are the real professionals? No pun intended...

Both. 

It's mostly a case of "What works in France won't work in Florida". 

Environment and culture influences our behavior, and helps to guide how that field prioritizes focus. For instance, we in the US drink 75% more than Europeans per capital, but are more likely to die from alcohol related deaths. So a greater effort is found in the US for treatment of alcoholism and it's comorbid nature connected to mood and personality disorders. 

[Megas 27,063]

If you actually read the article it's not trying to vilify, as WHO specifically classes Gaming Disorder who games to such an unhealthily degree. Not in terms of people "playing for a long period of time(like 8 hours)" or skipping a day or two of school and work to play games, but people who are so obsessed with gaming to the point where their avoiding pivotal responsibilities, such as skipping out on your month's rent or avoiding paying health insurance to buy games, or actively starving yourself to keep playing games, etc., which, in all honesty, is a real issue and more serious and common than people realize. You never want to fall in that category

In fact I feel like so many people are only reading the headlines to the point where several gaming sites has to point out actually have to point out that "this is a good thing" and "this is important"

I will say, while I believe WHO has good intentions here, I can see where some people would be upset, considering how many people will see this and use it to fuel political agendas, especially how anti gaming Washington can be

Edited December 30, 2017 by Kiryu-Chan

[honk friend 1,972]

On 12/28/2017 at 12:30 PM, Jeric said:

 

The WHO defines the disorder as a "persistent or recurrent" behavior pattern of "sufficient severity to result in significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational or other important areas of functioning."

The disorder is characterized by "impaired control" with increasing priority given to gaming and "escalation," despite "negative consequences."

 

Basically, you play games and can hold a job and function without harm to yourself and others, your a normal Joe. Similar to a guy who drinks and isn't an alcoholic. 

Jesus guys. They aren't saying video games are bad. It's to allow clinicians to actually treat a specific condition without fear of malpractice or negligence, and to make your insurance actually pay for treatment. You can be mentally addicted to anything, but when something is seen often enough in a clinical setting, you have to categorize it and develop a specific treatment plan. 

This level of common sense is rare, sadly. Especially in the debate pit. Everyone likes to jump the gun on anything they hear that they don't immediately like the sound of, without considering the implications or meanings of what's being said.

I swear, sometimes it feels like everyone's been conditioned to think it's bad to have a mental disorder or that people with mental disorders are practically nonfunctional. 

[Jeric 46,834]

15 hours ago, Prowl said:

I will say, while I believe WHO has good intentions here, I can see where some people would be upset, considering how many people will see this and use it to fuel political agendas, especially how anti gaming Washington can be

This is definitely an issue, agreed. All burgeoning forms of media and entertainment suffer suspicion from law makers who tend to be reactionary toward gaming in general, and I guarantee not one of them can identify where the ΔFosB splice variant related to behavioral addiction would be found (it's chromosome 19 for anyone curious). They probably have never heard of it. Science, genetic and behavioral, explains all of this. 

That said, I'm not of the mind that there is an epidemic related to gaming addiction or compulsory play. I honestly believe it would be more common to find addiction related to internet and smart phone usage than gaming. You really think Material Design was developed without thorough analysis of how movement and patterns impact reward centers in our brain? Same with haptic feedback. They have the benefit of being naturally addictive, but dangerously so if you have a bad ΔFosB. 

[Mirage 24,134]

14 hours ago, Jeric said:

Both. 

It's mostly a case of "What works in France won't work in Florida". 

Environment and culture influences our behavior, and helps to guide how that field prioritizes focus. For instance, we in the US drink 75% more than Europeans per capital, but are more likely to die from alcohol related deaths. So a greater effort is found in the US for treatment of alcoholism and it's comorbid nature connected to mood and personality disorders. 

Jeric, buddy...I respect you and all but this misses explaining the contradiction. If the WHO are experts on the subject of behavior and mental health, it doesn't matter where you are in the world because ultimately it's about the subject, not the culture (ie, a mental disorder, not an epidemic). If you gamble, you could develop a gambling problem, which could lead to mental disorder - same with alcohol, sex, drugs, pornography, etc. They have declared that Video Games are a risk factor  - no different really, than the aforementioned risks. So the real discussion should be about video games as escapism and if Video Games actually pose a risk to a person seeking relief from their life. 

If you know anything about psychology, and I think you do, you know that addictive behavioral disorders are symptoms, not causes. A person who becomes an alcoholic could have just as easily become a gambler, or a meth addict, or even a Schizophrenic - depending on the outlet they seek to relieve their suffering. Every single mental disorder related to behavior patterns can be explained by a very simple problem - avoiding pain. There are exceptions (genetic, traumatic, etc) but these are truly very rare, and require a different set of therapies and diagnosis.

11 hours ago, Annie said:

This level of common sense is rare, sadly. Especially in the debate pit. Everyone likes to jump the gun on anything they hear that they don't immediately like the sound of, without considering the implications or meanings of what's being said.

I swear, sometimes it feels like everyone's been conditioned to think it's bad to have a mental disorder or that people with mental disorders are practically nonfunctional. 

Goodness - did someone skip their bowl of sunshine today?

The concern that people have about this 'declaration' is that it will change public perspective on video games in a very negative light. Consider that playing video games could pretty much occupy the same level of physiologically damaging habits such as gambling and drugs and depression.

Maybe they are? It comes down to this. Do video games have the power to change a person's physiological makeup to the point that they find no escape, much like other damaging addictions? The WHO says yes. If they are right, we have a serious discussion as a culture. If they are wrong, then it will just cause a lot of needless trouble.

 

All in all, I think the objectors find the 'proof' of the WHO's declaration as wanting. I mean, I think we've all seen what drugs or alcohol can do to someone's life - or even other severe mental disorders. Are there examples of such tragedies related to Video Games? Could it be that the objectors just don't see this as a mental disorder because, well, they haven't seen it as a problem like other disorders?

Man, can we try to understand and engage before we bring out the verbal clubs and axes?

 

[Ziltoid the Omniscient 286]

The keyword here is 'excessive' 

So called filthy casuals such as myself dont pose a health risk for playing video games a few hours or so at a time.

I think its more referring to people who are addicts.

[Jeric 46,834]

50 minutes ago, Mirage said:

you know anything about psychology, and I think you do, you know that addictive behavioral disorders are symptoms, not causes. A person who becomes an alcoholic could have just as easily become a gambler, or a meth addict, or even a Schizophrenic - depending on the outlet they seek to relieve their suffering. Every single mental disorder related to behavior patterns can be explained by a very simple problem - avoiding pain. There are exceptions (genetic, traumatic, etc) but these are truly very rare, and require a different set of therapies and diagnosis.

Yes, I am rather adept at medical science in general. Baylor and Brown said I got game. Anyway, you missed my post about FOSB. It's the common thread. Gambling addiction is currently the only non-substance related addiction with it's own DSM-5 diagnostic criteria. I do have to make a point of correction when it comes to schizophrenia. That is not related to the above referenced protein. The risk factors would include teenage use of psychoactives, but not depressants and stimulants. I'm not sure where you got that from, but it's incorrect. And the predominant risk factors include family history (genetics or epigenetics) unrelated to the FOSB protein, though they haven't isolated the exact gene. Several congenital and developmental factors greatly apply. Addiction itself is not a root cause, at all. 

50 minutes ago, Mirage said:

Maybe they are? It comes down to this. Do video games have the power to change a person's physiological makeup to the point that they find no escape, much like other damaging addictions? The WHO says yes. If they are right, we have a serious discussion as a culture. If they are wrong, then it will just cause a lot of needless trouble.

I'm going to just say that the APA placed an index amendment in the DSM-5 suggesting that further research is warranted and it would not be included at this time. Ten years ago, when the DSM-5 was being worked on, this editorial allowed it to be further discussed. Check out the annotations. A few years ago this was published, and while it recognized that other countries have been recognizing internet and gaming addiction, it called for further research and systematic studies. We (The US) are nowhere near a conclusive answer in the field. 

Finally, culture and behavior most certainly impacts genetics. You realize your DNA isn't fixed, right? How familiar are you with epigenetics and alleles? Would you believe that irrespective of a faulty FOSB protein at birth, if I were to take up cigs at the age of 14 and then have a kid at the age of 22, I would have passed on a new variable to the fetus that didn't exists when I was 13. Basically, I increased the kid's chances for addiction to nicotine. It's environment and experience based, so it works the same if grow up in an war torn environment, or a wealthy safe environment. Behavior and experiences will alter gene expression. 

Nature and nurture aren't as far apart as the layperson usually thinks. So yes, experts in one country would see things present differently in their population than experts in another country. They are both experts, and that's a legitimate scientific fact. It is also about the culture. It's also about your household. 

 

[honk friend 1,972]

1 hour ago, Mirage said:

Goodness - did someone skip their bowl of sunshine today?

The concern that people have about this 'declaration' is that it will change public perspective on video games in a very negative light. Consider that playing video games could pretty much occupy the same level of physiologically damaging habits such as gambling and drugs and depression.

Maybe they are? It comes down to this. Do video games have the power to change a person's physiological makeup to the point that they find no escape, much like other damaging addictions? The WHO says yes. If they are right, we have a serious discussion as a culture. If they are wrong, then it will just cause a lot of needless trouble.

All in all, I think the objectors find the 'proof' of the WHO's declaration as wanting. I mean, I think we've all seen what drugs or alcohol can do to someone's life - or even other severe mental disorders. Are there examples of such tragedies related to Video Games? Could it be that the objectors just don't see this as a mental disorder because, well, they haven't seen it as a problem like other disorders?

Man, can we try to understand and engage before we bring out the verbal clubs and axes?

I'd appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about me thanks

People jumping the gun on topics like these is incredible common on this forum and that's basically what was happening. It's observable in the front page. It's not "bringing out the clubs and axes" to bring up that people have horrible pre-conceived notions about mental illness and people who suffer from it.

And yes, video games can be harmful to your health in more ways than just one and ESPECIALLY if played in excess.

[Mirage 24,134]

21 hours ago, Jeric said:

Yes, I am rather adept at medical science in general. Baylor and Brown said I got game. Anyway, you missed my post about FOSB. It's the common thread. Gambling addiction is currently the only non-substance related addiction with it's own DSM-5 diagnostic criteria. I do have to make a point of correction when it comes to schizophrenia. That is not related to the above referenced protein. The risk factors would include teenage use of psychoactives, but not depressants and stimulants. I'm not sure where you got that from, but it's incorrect. And the predominant risk factors include family history (genetics or epigenetics) unrelated to the FOSB protein, though they haven't isolated the exact gene. Several congenital and developmental factors greatly apply. Addiction itself is not a root cause, at all. 

I'm going to just say that the APA placed an index amendment in the DSM-5 suggesting that further research is warranted and it would not be included at this time. Ten years ago, when the DSM-5 was being worked on, this editorial allowed it to be further discussed. Check out the annotations. A few years ago this was published, and while it recognized that other countries have been recognizing internet and gaming addiction, it called for further research and systematic studies. We (The US) are nowhere near a conclusive answer in the field. 

Finally, culture and behavior most certainly impacts genetics. You realize your DNA isn't fixed, right? How familiar are you with epigenetics and alleles? Would you believe that irrespective of a faulty FOSB protein at birth, if I were to take up cigs at the age of 14 and then have a kid at the age of 22, I would have passed on a new variable to the fetus that didn't exists when I was 13. Basically, I increased the kid's chances for addiction to nicotine. It's environment and experience based, so it works the same if grow up in an war torn environment, or a wealthy safe environment. Behavior and experiences will alter gene expression. 

Nature and nurture aren't as far apart as the layperson usually thinks. So yes, experts in one country would see things present differently in their population than experts in another country. They are both experts, and that's a legitimate scientific fact. It is also about the culture. It's also about your household. 

 

Environment, culture, family, friends and heredity are all known factors that can influence behavior, among others. I never disputed that. I never dismissed genes either, and I will have you know that I have to explain dynamic gene response to others when talking about habits - good and bad. I should point out that one can change their genes for good tendencies as well!

But getting into genes deviates from the discussion because it seems to imply that if there isn't genetic evidence, then there is no danger or risk. That it is genes that determine escapisms - not pain and suffering. Just because some research shows that the FOSB protein is not a factor for schizophrenia doesn't mean I can't enter into a lifestyle that endangers my sanity. With all that academicia you've conveniently overstepped personal choices. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't serve this situation, and it certainly doesn't help those trapped by the nightmare of addiction (which can presumably lead to serious disorder) or even those that are worried about the perception of something that they enjoy doing.

In summary, we know that genes (heredity) can influence a person's behavior - that's pretty well understood, even by stupid ass 'laymen' such as myself. Therefore, on the contrary, just because one is born with a tendency doesn't mean they are horribly doomed to a mental disorder they can do nothing about because it's encoded in their genes. Their choices can make a difference, beginning with mindset and running with that mindset to change their environment to a healthy state of growth and enlightenment. We all have crutches to deal with, and dealing with life is what becoming an adult is all about. So let's beat a different horse.

To your point, science in one area of the world isn't science in another? Forgive me, but this is starting to sound pretty weak, especially after your banter over proteins as evidence of specific addictions. Your whole point about the WHO and the APA and their progress in this inquiry implies a rather specious approach to understanding, in that, a condition doesn't exist unless 'their' science says so. You go on to show that 'We (The US) are nowhere near a conclusive answer in the field' with regard to gaming addiction, in apparent contrary to the WHO, so this only enforces the OP's concern - their conclusion is rather arbitrary. But I understand where you are coming from, you're an 'atomist'. I am not. I am holistic. I don't need to know that a virus causes the common cold before I seek to understand how to deal with it because humanity has been around long enough and has recorded enough that there is plenty of things to learn and know about the human condition that is superlative to scientific validation (which most often is used to prescribe drugs and make money, not help people).

If the WHO has processed evidence that video games can form a mental disorder then that is not a joke man. If they are jumping the gun with rather weak evidence and just want to go the activist route to 'do something about it', the rage against them is rather justified. (Because if they want to do something about then do something, no need to make gaming sound like it's the road to perdition). And so to @Prowl's brilliant point - the concern I believe is much more about how this could fuel perception rather than if there's actually something here (because I don't think anyone here rejects the notion that gaming can become unhealthy).

20 hours ago, Annie said:

I'd appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about me thanks

It was a joke bro!

[SparklingSwirls 21,261]

I guess I fall into the camp that's surprised that excessive video gaming is being classified as a disorder before excessive internet use or phone use. Phone use especially since it can be potentially dangerous to others, such as when people use their phones while driving.

Maybe it's because so many people use their phones all day that nearly everyone would have the disorder

(Just kidding. I'm aware that it's only a "disorder" if it interferes with one living a functioning life.)

[Jeric 46,834]

39 minutes ago, Mirage said:

With all that academicia you've conveniently overstepped personal choices

I touched on the fact that personal choices can alter alleles and gene expression, and likewise these expressions can and do influence personal choices. 

 

41 minutes ago, Mirage said:

To your point, science in one area of the world isn't science in another?

That isn't what I said at all. The short of it is that one population is different than another so conclusions may vary, even if rigor and methodology is identical. There is an entire science devoted to this called epidemiology. WHO isn't even the first to do what it did. South Korea and China were the first into this whole world of electronic based addictions. 

 

45 minutes ago, Mirage said:

Just because some research shows that the FOSB protein is not a factor for schizophrenia doesn't mean I can't enter into a lifestyle that endangers my sanity.

I believe I confirmed that. Personal choices and environment can influence mental health. My issue was that you used a specific mental health disorder and got the risk factors wrong. I suspect you typed that sentence out of memory, but I digress. Alcoholism is a disease, yet personal choice (behavioral decisions) are part or the etiology. Irrespective of that element of the causation, alcoholism is still a disease. 

 

49 minutes ago, Mirage said:

But I understand where you are coming from, you're an 'atomist'. I am not. I am holistic

The problem with distilling a scientific approach to anything down to one word is that you risk stripping away nuance. Suffice it to say, that isn't true for me at all. Treatment should always be holistic when considering all forms of health. That doesn't appear to be what this topic is about though. Only a few people have touched on treatment questions, and even I only casually mentioned treatment plans and pharma approaches. The bulk of this thread has not been about treatment, it has been the conclusion reached by WHO. I will say that while I strongly support a holistic treatment approach, etiology is a different story altogether. You need a focused granularity to develop a full understanding of risk factors and causes. So no ... I am not just an atomist or just holistic. I'm a guy with a tool belt who uses the right tool for the job. 

 

 

[Mirage 24,134]

15 minutes ago, Jeric said:

That isn't what I said at all. The short of it is that one population is different than another so conclusions may vary, even if rigor and methodology is identical. There is an entire science devoted to this called epidemiology. WHO isn't even the first to do what it did. South Korea and China were the first into this whole world of electronic based addictions.

This is such a trap. So as long as there is 6 syllable word to describe a method, it's golden? Look, basically your point is that it is not an exact science, it is not well understood, and that variations are expected because people are different. So what. You presented all this to deflect the concern that the WHO's conclusion is universal because it hasn't passed all the white coat minutia. There are some damn good reasons to be skeptical of research science (apart from obvious crony capitalism), and this is just another rational reason to continue.

22 minutes ago, Jeric said:

I believe I confirmed that. Personal choices and environment can influence mental health. My issue was that you used a specific mental health disorder and got the risk factors wrong. I suspect you typed that sentence out of memory, but I digress. Alcoholism is a disease, yet personal choice (behavioral decisions) are part or the etiology. Irrespective of that element of the causation, alcoholism is still a disease. 

The only thing I said what that mental disorders can largely be explained by avoiding pain, avoiding suffering. Then I clearly notes exceptions. You're taking issue with me on a specific that I never intended to illustrate, and I really feel you keep pressing me on this so that you can say that I'm wrong about something.

 

26 minutes ago, Jeric said:

The problem with distilling a scientific approach to anything down to one word is that you risk stripping away nuance. Suffice it to say, that isn't true for me at all. Treatment should always be holistic when considering all forms of health. That doesn't appear to be what this topic is about though. Only a few people have touched on treatment questions, and even I only casually mentioned treatment plans and pharma approaches. The bulk of this thread has not been about treatment, it has been the conclusion reached by WHO. I will say that while I strongly support a holistic treatment approach, etiology is a different story altogether. You need a focused granularity to develop a full understanding of risk factors and causes. So no ... I am not just an atomist or just holistic. I'm a guy with a tool belt who uses the right tool for the job. 

Well I'm glad it isn't true about you. Distilling ideas in necessary, unless you want me to write a formal essay.

I very much appreciate and obey science when it is science. And I do my best to understand what tools are good, and what are bad. 

[StormBlaze 991]

interesting. Though personally Ive not seen excessive gaming to a point where its unhealthy, I have however been a sort of victim in behaviour that comes from excessive gaming.

My ex actually had anger issues from gaming. Instead of letting the games be some kind of vent from the real world and mainly his work, it just made him worse. I actually left him partly due to him playing darkest dungeon and The Divison (loathe that game particularly) as they affected how we lived. One of us had to leave the room (we were stuck in a single bedroom and living room in his parents house at the time and I only had a desktop PC) as he would scream and shout playing games, normally online too so he'd get to talk to his friends, but i felt I had to force myself to mute my mic when trying to talk with my friends on teamspeak.

He never hit out of anger from this, but it was quite a common thing for one of us to sulk and argue because of it. fair few nights were spent on the sofa.

[BlueCoats 19]

On 1/3/2018 at 6:11 AM, StormBlaze said:

interesting. Though personally Ive not seen excessive gaming to a point where its unhealthy, I have however been a sort of victim in behaviour that comes from excessive gaming.

My ex actually had anger issues from gaming. Instead of letting the games be some kind of vent from the real world and mainly his work, it just made him worse. I actually left him partly due to him playing darkest dungeon and The Divison (loathe that game particularly) as they affected how we lived. One of us had to leave the room (we were stuck in a single bedroom and living room in his parents house at the time and I only had a desktop PC) as he would scream and shout playing games, normally online too so he'd get to talk to his friends, but i felt I had to force myself to mute my mic when trying to talk with my friends on teamspeak.

He never hit out of anger from this, but it was quite a common thing for one of us to sulk and argue because of it. fair few nights were spent on the sofa.

Playing games is no excuse for having anger issues.

[Mlppotterwhoovian 381]

That’s wrong, someone should complain 

[EpicEnergy 22,074]

I think it's true that excessive video gaming can be a mental health disorder as it can be an addiction and can cause detrimental effects to your health.

[Stardust 640]

Meh I always thought it was over the top and the whole mental health disorder thing is jus because it's trendy to blame gaming. I mean it's pretty much just them voting over something. 

I mean i'm glad it means there is more help out there for those addicted to games tho so I guess it is in a way good. But the whole disorder thing is pretty suspicious.

But on a different note wow after all this china stuff WHO really lost it's cred oof

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

Eh... not trying to sound dismissive of real mental disorders, but you can't frickin' call everything a disorder.  Pretty soon, just being alive is going to be classified as a mental disorder.

[Lucky Bolt 34,914]

The WHO is just a huge freakin criminal run agency in my eyes. I do not believe a thing they say. 

[Pentium100 2,056]

5 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

Eh... not trying to sound dismissive of real mental disorders, but you can't frickin' call everything a disorder.  Pretty soon, just being alive is going to be classified as a mental disorder.

Well, the problem is how to define what a "mental disorder" is. It is easier to define what a physical disorder is (everyone agrees bones are not supposed to be broken or that the lungs should not be full of liquid). With mental disorders it's much more subjective.

However, I remember reading about a couple who played games non-stop for so long, their baby died. https://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/04/01/korea.parents.starved.baby/index.html

That does look like a disorder, very similar to people being drunk/high all the time and neglecting their children.

[Evil Pink One 12,972]

It is....no gamer denies that....we actually want out! Please help us!!! Gamer life matters

[CameoShadowness 251]

I thought they already did that and specifically for the games who don't interact with others beyond games, poor diets and such. Still we all know the WHO has been wrong before with this pandemic alone so I still won't trust their judgment on this until I can get others to back it up.

[The Historian 515]

I know this might sound nitpicky but gaming isn't an addiction. It's a compulsion. Not entirely the same. Anyway, excessive gaming is damaging to people. Game compulsion doesn't usually exist in isolation either. It's weird and counter-intuitive, but, most of the time, this happens between a small set of people. Two to maybe four or five at most. They share this to the exlcusion of everything else. Kind of a problem.

No, games aren't some addictive force but they do provide the escapism that some people desperately need to fill a void left in their lives.