Sunset Shimmer brainwashed?

[heavens-champion 1,893]

Some people think Sunset was brainwashed at the end of the first Equestria Girls movie. What do you think?

[Feather Scribbles 194]

No. Just... no........

[King of Canterlot 9,588]

Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh anyone who says that is just a crazy conspiracy theorist 

[Will Guide 21,325]

That's utter nonsense! If that was true, then Fan favorite Princess Luna was brainwashed by the Elements too. Ain't that just great logic! 

If that "brilliant" logic was true, I know someone who thinks Cutie Marks actually enslave ponies to do exactly one thing for the rest of their lives, despite all evidence to the contrary.  *eyes roll*

Edited January 3, 2018 by WiiGuy2014

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

It’s an argument reduced to absurdity, most likely to provoke a response. I’ve also seen some people say that Sunset was “murdered” and some other character took her place. It isn’t serious, it’s just an extreme way of expressing how much they don’t like Sunset’s abrupt character change. The Sunset from Equestria Girls is fundamentally different from the Sunset of Rainbow Rocks, they share almost nothing in common, especially flaws. For some, this 180 degree heel turn is jarring, enough to count it as a major flaw in her character developement, since she never went through any struggle to change who she is, the next time we see her she’s just a good person.

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

Whoever thinks this clearly hasn't watched Equestria Girls in the same manner that most of us have. Sunset was given the opportunity to reform, a second chance, by Twilight, who could've easily said no and allowed her--Sunset--to wallow away in misery, and she took the initiative becoming the character we all know and love. To say she was brainwashed into accepting friendship is just ridiculous.

[luftschloss 831]

This question makes me wish I lived as a monk on the top of a very tall mountain. 

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

I think it makes a bit sense, especially considering that Sunset feels like a completely different character than she was before she was reformed. 

[Castle Bleck 19,166]

The implication wasn't that the Elements just brainwashed her, but that the shock of the whole "raging she-demon" thing finally beat some humility and sense into her (in fact, during the transformation, she already looked like she was thinking, 'Oh, s***; this whole thing was a bad idea!').

Edited January 3, 2018 by A.V.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Has she been drinking tap water without a filter?

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Yes, she is brainwashed. To be more accurate, reset. A Deus Ex Machina got involved in a fight that should never have existed had DHX not throw continuity out the door and completely rewired her personality by force. Everything she once was is replaced in favor of the Elements' version of who they want her to be. Only her memories remain. The Sunset before and after the EoH intruded are 100% different, even though an aspect of her old personality (her temper) temporarily reappeared in FG. Her "personality" as is is fraudulent and broken for that reason. If the character's reformed, make sure the character is reformed, not have a DEM take care of it for her. At this point, the Elements of Harmony completely jumped the shark, and it's one big reason why I'm so glad they don't rely on them anymore. Shadow Play criticized the EoH's immoral, authoritarian use on villains when Starlight thought its use to banish the PoS back to limbo felt wrong.

Give credit to Starlight's reformation. Her backstory was abbreviated, but it makes sense and provides a transition to make her actually change ways by herself.

13 hours ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

That's utter nonsense! If that was true, then Fan favorite Princess Luna was brainwashed by the Elements too. Ain't that just great logic! 

There's a HUGE difference between Sunset's and Luna's reformations. Luna evolved into NMM, a personification of envy and bitterness that grew out of control. The EoH returned Luna to who she once was. Sunset's personality before and during her brief time as Sunset Demon was exactly the same, and EQG1 heavily suggests this was her personality ever since she became Celly's protege, if not prior (with "Fall of Sunset Shimmer" from the comics confirming it).

Sonic Adventure's Chaos is a more apt comparison to Luna than Sunny. After Tikal's father and the rest of the echidna tribe killed Chao in their charge to take away the Chaos Emeralds from the shrine for themselves, Chaos became so enraged that he wiped out the tribe, and Tikal had to sacrifice herself to keep his anger in check. The more Emeralds he acquired, the more out of control his anger became. Super Sonic defeating him finally calmed him down and brought peace to his soul.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[CypherHoof 26,479]

11 hours ago, Ganondorf8 said:

Whoever thinks this clearly hasn't watched Equestria Girls in the same manner that most of us have. Sunset was given the opportunity to reform, a second chance, by Twilight, who could've easily said no and allowed her--Sunset--to wallow away in misery, and she took the initiative becoming the character we all know and love. To say she was brainwashed into accepting friendship is just ridiculous.

Indeed so, yes. A recurring theme in the show is that Friendship, once experienced, is so valuable that formerly "bad" characters will give up almost anything to retain it. Discord, GlimGlam, possibly even Thorax, demonstrate this.  There is also the more EqG examples of SciTwi, Gloriosa and Juniper, who were repentent and apologetic after becoming a single-minded expression of their worst desire, which also fit the Sunshim mold.

But more than that; pony SunShim was clearly lacking in humility, which carried over to EqG; it was not so much her fall and then defeat, and the crushing of her ambition that reformed her, but the freely offered friendship and support of the Rainbooms during her lowest moments and the shunning by the school put her onto a better path. Her past is not today

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

3 hours ago, CypherHoof said:

But more than that; pony SunShim was clearly lacking in humility, which carried over to EqG; it was not so much her fall and then defeat, and the crushing of her ambition that reformed her, but the freely offered friendship and support of the Rainbooms during her lowest moments and the shunning by the school put her onto a better path. Her past is not today

Humility was the one thing Celestia always said Sunset was lacking according to "The Fall of Sunset Shimmer." I know that this comes from a comic and their canonicity is often put into question yet this comic in particular does what the first Equestria Girls movie didn't by explaining the exact reason why Sunset left in the first place. These days, Sunset knows a lot about humility and shares this with others who are going down a path that she once treaded.

[Thrond 3,257]

I think the implication is there, because Sunset only became repentant after being hit by a magical laser beam, and her personality as of the next movie was entirely different with almost no continuity with her previous self. (Alas, Friendship Games, at least you tried.) It's not that different from a character like Juniper Montage completely turning face, but using a "friendship beam" rather than a cheesy speech makes it a lot more abstract, which in turn makes it harder to see as entirely consensual. The first Equestria Girls film is incoherent in a lot of ways, and I think the subsequent films are better enjoyed if you ignore it altogether. 

I do prefer to interpret it more charitably, and my working theory has long been that the friendship laser somehow brings out the good present in a person and forces them to understand the consequences of their actions. But that's still very abstract, and it's never stated outright in the series or the films. For all my complaints about later seasons, the development of the "reformation" motif is pretty much entirely positive. 

[Megas 27,062]

Can I just say this is a bullshit mentality and headcanon to have? It may have been the result of shitty writing on the movie's part, but it was never the writer's intention at all, and at the end of the day is just a normal redemption just like all other characters that have been redeemed(and equally as shitty), which is clearly evident by both the staff's feelings on the character and the fact that Rainbow Rocks exists(which originally wasn't supposed to have her return, but her VA Rebecca Shoichet convinced the writers to keep her). And you know what? The more I think about it, considering the fact that this theory came up after Rainbow Rocks came out and was well received and Sunset became popular, I'm convinced that some people only made this up because they're so butthurt by the fact that, god forbid, people actually like Equestria Girls and Sunset, and only made it up to discredit Sunset fans and make them look stupid

[Leavemealone 547]

I find that extremely hard to believe, as Sunset is a rather rational pony and she would resist to the maximum capacity against brainwashing. 

[Will Guide 21,325]

3 minutes ago, Prowl said:

Can I just say this is a bullshit mentality and headcanon to have? It may have been the result of shitty writing on the movie's part, but it was never the writer's intention at all, and at the end of the day is just a normal redemption just like all other characters that have been redeemed(and equally as shitty), which is clearly evident by both the staff's feelings on the character and the fact that Rainbow Rocks exists(which originally wasn't supposed to have her return, but her VA Rebecca Shoichet convinced the writers to keep her). And you know what? The more I think about it, considering the fact that this theory came up after Rainbow Rocks came out and was well received and Sunset became popular, I'm convinced that some people only made this up because they're so butthurt by the fact that, god forbid, people actually like Equestria Girls and Sunset, and only made it up to discredit Sunset fans and make them look stupid

Well, I agree with you saying this brainwash theory is nonsense!

[cmarston1 5,951]

17 minutes ago, Prowl said:

Can I just say this is a bullshit mentality and headcanon to have? It may have been the result of shitty writing on the movie's part, but it was never the writer's intention at all, and at the end of the day is just a normal redemption just like all other characters that have been redeemed(and equally as shitty), which is clearly evident by both the staff's feelings on the character and the fact that Rainbow Rocks exists(which originally wasn't supposed to have her return, but her VA Rebecca Shoichet convinced the writers to keep her). And you know what? The more I think about it, considering the fact that this theory came up after Rainbow Rocks came out and was well received and Sunset became popular, I'm convinced that some people only made this up because they're so butthurt by the fact that, god forbid, people actually like Equestria Girls and Sunset, and only made it up to discredit Sunset fans and make them look stupid

Adding on this point, you don't really see as many, if any people say that Luna was brainwashed when she was hit with elements of harmony back in episode 2 of FIM. That just reeks of double standards if you ask me.

Edited January 12, 2018 by cmarston1

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

17 minutes ago, Prowl said:

And you know what? The more I think about it, considering the fact that this theory came up after Rainbow Rocks came out and was well received and Sunset became popular, I'm convinced that some people only made this up because they're so butthurt by the fact that, god forbid, people actually like Equestria Girls and Sunset, and only made it up to discredit Sunset fans and make them look stupid

I’m a Sunset Shimmer fan. I like Equestria Girls. Saying Sunset was brainwashed is a bit much, but that’s pretty much what it looks like with her instantaneous turnaround. There’s heel-faced, 180 degree turns, and than there’s being slammed down the tracks in the opposite direction by the friendship train, 300 mph to Hero Town.

 

4 minutes ago, cmarston1 said:

Adding on this point, you don't really see as many, if any people say that Luna was brainwashed when she was hit with elements of harmony back in episode 2 of FIM.   That just reeks of double standards if you ask me.

Anyone who would have said Luna was brainwashed just says that she was possessed by Nightmare Moon instead. Luna also didn’t solve one friendship problem and get handed an element of harmony and leadership of the main six. With bigger story roles comes bigger criticisms. If Starlight had just gone back to her village instead of “joining” the main cast, do you think the hate and criticism for her would have been as loud?

[Megas 27,062]

12 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I’m a Sunset Shimmer fan. I like Equestria Girls. Saying Sunset was brainwashed is a bit much, but that’s pretty much what it looks like with her instantaneous turnaround. There’s heel-faced, 180 degree turns, and than there’s being slammed down the tracks in the opposite direction by the friendship train, 300 mph to Hero Town.

Again, that was clearly not the direction the writers wanted to take this, which is reinforced by how they chose to portray her in future installments. On top of that it only started popping up after she got a big following from Rainbow Rocks, which just reeks of people making up bullshit to discredit fans because she got popular

Seriously if you don't like the character just say you hate her and leave it at that. Don't make some asinine theory that pretty much discredits most of her progress as a character, all that does is make you look like a jerk

Edited January 12, 2018 by Prowl

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

7 minutes ago, Prowl said:

Again, that was clearly not the direction the writers wanted to take this, which is reinforced by how they chose to portray her in future installments. On top of that it only started popping up after she got a big following from Rainbow Rocks, which just reeks of people making up bullshit to discredit fans because she got popular

Seriously if you don't like the character just say you hate her and leave it at that. Don't make some asinine theory that pretty much discredits most of her progress as a character, all that does is make you look like an ass

What the hell? You don’t get to decide what characters I do and don’t like, or how I choose to like them. I agree, that’s not what the writers meant, but that doesn’t make her sudden turn around any less jarring. The reason nobody, or at least not as many people, complained after EQG, but did after RR, is because there was no sense of progression. At the end of EQG, Sunset admitted she was wrong, but that’s it. She could have still been the same ambitious, cruel, and manipulative person she was before the EoH hit her, like how Starlight was, and still kinda is, self centered and impulsive. Or how Discord’s still a self centered jerk. Or how Luna is still a bit jealous of the attention her sister gets.

But she wasn’t, she got hit by the friendship laser, said she was sorry, and then the very next time we see her, she’s a completely different person. Now, there’s all kinds of reasoning you can give for why that’s the case. She was taught by Princess Celestia, so she knows how to be a good person, even if she thought it wasn’t worth it at the time. Or she could have decided that she wanted to be better, turned over a new leaf, and put behind her all the things that made her bad. It doesn’t happen very often, but it does happen. We didn’t get to see any of that though, and the path to making yourself a better person is a big part of a redemption story, and Sunset just sort of... skipped it.

At best, it’s rushed, sloppy story telling. At worst, Sunset was brainwashed and all the things that made her evil were purged and she’s a completely different character. In the end, this one flaw(and a few others) don’t impact my enjoyment of Sunset’s character, nor my enjoyment of the series itself.

[Megas 27,062]

3 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

What the hell? You don’t get to decide what characters I do and don’t like, or how I choose to like them. I agree, that’s not what the writers meant, but that doesn’t make her sudden turn around any less jarring. The reason nobody, or at least not as many people, complained after EQG, but did after RR, is because there was no sense of progression. At the end of EQG, Sunset admitted she was wrong, but that’s it. She could have still been the same ambitious, cruel, and manipulative person she was before the EoH hit her, like how Starlight was, and still kinda is, self centered and impulsive. Or how Discord’s still a self centered jerk. Or how Luna is still a bit jealous of the attention her sister gets.

But she wasn’t, she got hit by the friendship laser, said she was sorry, and then the very next time we see her, she’s a completely different person. Now, there’s all kinds of reasoning you can give for why that’s the case. She was taught by Princess Celestia, so she knows how to be a good person, even if she thought it wasn’t worth it at the time. Or she could have decided that she wanted to be better, turned over a new leaf, and put behind her all the things that made her bad. It doesn’t happen very often, but it does happen. We didn’t get to see any of that though, and the path to making yourself a better person is a big part of a redemption story, and Sunset just sort of... skipped it.

At best, it’s rushed, sloppy story telling. At worst, Sunset was brainwashed and all the things that made her evil were purged and she’s a completely different character. In the end, this one flaw(and a few others) don’t impact my enjoyment of Sunset’s character, nor my enjoyment of the series itself.

I wasn't specifically referring to you, I'm just saying that making that headcanon is just messed up because it wasn't ever intended and feels like it just exists out of spite. Sorry if I offended you

Edited January 12, 2018 by Prowl

[Thrond 3,257]

5 hours ago, cmarston1 said:

Adding on this point, you don't really see as many, if any people say that Luna was brainwashed when she was hit with elements of harmony back in episode 2 of FIM. That just reeks of double standards if you ask me.

I don’t tend to think of Luna and Nightmare Moon as the same person, so instead I think that whatever caused Luna to be Nightmare Moon was removed from her body and possibly killed. If it were confirmed that Nightmare Moon was just who Luna used to be, I’d consider that brainwashing as well. 

 

5 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

and get handed an element of harmony and leadership of the main six.

I don’t think this is an accurate representation. Sunset took leadership just because her personality made it natural for her, and it’s never stated outright that she received an Element if Harmony. By the time she proved herself, the Elements were gone. Also, the geodes (ugh) aren’t the same.

5 hours ago, Prowl said:

Again, that was clearly not the direction the writers wanted to take this, which is reinforced by how they chose to portray her in future installments. 

While I like to stick to what appears to be the authorial intention, I don’t think that’s grounds to dismiss this idea, because that kinda is how the ending of Equestria Girls 1 comes across. I agree that anyone who holds that against later movies isn’t being entirely fair, but c’mon, the implication is right there.

5 hours ago, Prowl said:

On top of that it only started popping up after she got a big following from Rainbow Rocks, which just reeks of people making up bullshit to discredit fans because she got popular

It popped up after Rainbow Rocks because that’s the first film in which she undeniably behaves differently. Correlation does not equal causation.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

The brainwashed thing is just a way to describe Sunset's sudden personality change in satire manner, that is the only thing that hindered her mostly perfect character story arc, especially if you read 'Fall of Sunset Shimmer' comic and take it as canon. When i first saw the Rainbow Rocks teaser, the 'Battle of the Bands' scene, i thought Sunset might be temptated by sirens but no, she just realized something wrong with  them. Friendship Games gave us a glimpse of post-reform Sunset but its really small, and anyone can be scary when they mad anyway, ANYONE, so it doesnt mean anything. Her past is not today, it's ok, i guess, but i prefer a 'Every little thing she does' moment for Sunset but it will never come, Sunset is like an incorruptible angel now.

When i saw Sunset and Starlight stand next each others in Mirror Magic, i see a well-beloved big sister and a former delinquent younger sister lol. Shimmer has some aura that overwhelm Starlight in every way but Glimmer can somehow manage to shine in some certain moments (shimmer vs glimmer).

If you like the overall likable character, then Sunset is for you. Starlight is for you, if you prefer more complexity and dont mind her some negative traits.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I don’t think this is an accurate representation. Sunset took leadership just because her personality made it natural for her, and it’s never stated outright that she received an Element if Harmony. By the time she proved herself, the Elements were gone. Also, the geodes (ugh) aren’t the same.

If it acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

As for the leadership thing, I guess you’re looking at it from the show perspective, I’m looking at it from the writers perspective. And the writers gave Sunset those things in order to make her a replacement for Twilight within the group so she could stay in Equestria.

Edited January 12, 2018 by ShootingStar159