Is starlight glimmer that bad of a character

[Jokingjaxson15 6]

 

 

So i'm going to make a lot of people angry.You see I don't think starlight is a bad character Yes she's done some questionable things but shes done great things that made her a really good character.I'm going to name three things she done that helped redeemed her as a character and say why.                

1:she saved equestria   

Now the mane six haved saved equestria seven or eight times but the point is it's because of starlight and her suicide squad like team that they saved equestria.She was the only one since both her and trixie went to our town for the celebration and then wasn't there for the kidnapping of the mane six and spike and it was because of her leadership that trixie,discord,and thorax gotten along(part of the time) and saved equestria.  

 

2:She helped repair the crystal heart

Now I will agree at times season six didn't had some good episodes but I didn't think that the season six premiere was bad we always wanted to know more of the crystal kingdom and we saw that the crystal can be broken.Yeah... what i’m trying to fully say if wasn't for starlight talking to sunburst and helping him find a spell the crystal heart would've been still destroyed and the crystal empire would have been a winter wonderland    

 

3:She saved an innocent pony from going to limbo again

Now This is the biggest thing that starlight has done shadow play was slow at parts but it was really good but let's get back to starlight.Starlight was amazing in this episode more than where and back again she saw that stygian wasn't a bad guy all he wanted to do was to help them and be a part of the battle and  a darkness overtook him when he felt like he was nothing and the only pony that saw throught it was starlight she  saved an innocent pony from going to limbo.  

 

Now I know you may not like starlight after this but just look at this and think she's done some good she's doing her best to help the other characters and be a good friend and can we just agree that every character has their ups and down.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

If this was EQD or Fimfiction you might get a bit of backlash, but not around here. The vast majority of the fandom doesn’t think she’s a bad character, it just a very vocal minority that likes to kick up a stink about her. Once you start paying attention to names, you start to realize it’s the same people starting the same arguments, with the same complaints, and with the same results. The best thing to do is ignore them, but I do know how hard that can be.

[Denim&Venöm 16,503]

I think most of the initial backlash came about from her being another studious unicorn with demigod like powers, as well as being another reformed villain. So, a Sunset Shimmer clone. Other issues were with her motivations as a villain being rather shallow.

Other than that, I don't see any issue with her. I don't think most people have issue with her either. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,278]

Starlight isn't a bad character, it is her execution that is ruining her. The way they make other characters into morons to make her look better. How they made her extremely overpowered with no proper reasoning. Her many abuses of magic with only a slap on the hoof as a result. There are things I like about Starlight, she has had some good episodes. Then things like part 2 of the season 7 finale come along and make me question what the writers are thinking. They need to stop with the whole 'pulling spells out of her ass' thing and focus more towards her positive social aspects, as her chemistry with other characters is quite good. Give us more of that.

[Megas 27,063]

No, but it feels like it took them a whole season to find out what they wanted to do with her

[碇 シンジン 27,427]

I think she is pretty good for what she stands for interesting and developed, good all around.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

That's odd. Many of my waifus are evil. I wonder if that makes them bad characters

 

Let us ignore the little knights that have willingly robbed themselves of eyes and ears and let me answer your question with another: What makes a bad character? Note that I am not asking for your personal opinion about a specific pony. I want your personal opinion on what makes a bad character.

 

Also note that I have no intention of physically stabbing anyone ... I'm sorry. If you are that person you absolutely need to tell us the whole story behind that post. We don't get a lot of greentexts around here.

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

I wouldn't say so. At first, I enjoyed her as a villain though I wasn't impressed with her when she was reformed--I will continue to stand by my opinion that her backstory and reformation were rushed--but she deserved a chance to be judged accordingly in my mind. It took her all of season six, some of season seven, and Mirror Magic--the special was what cemented her place as a character I could like--before she had proven herself. Now I look forward to seeing what she will do next though I won't deny that the writers could improve on how best to utilize her talents without making her out to be superior at the cost of everyone else.

[Will Guide 21,325]

1 hour ago, Jokingjaxson15 said:

 

 

So i'm going to make a lot of people angry.You see I don't think starlight is a bad character Yes she's done some questionable things but shes done great things that made her a really good character.I'm going to name three things she done that helped redeemed her as a character and say why.                

1:she saved equestria   

Now the mane six haved saved equestria seven or eight times but the point is it's because of starlight and her suicide squad like team that they saved equestria.She was the only one since both her and trixie went to our town for the celebration and then wasn't there for the kidnapping of the mane six and spike and it was because of her leadership that trixie,discord,and thorax gotten along(part of the time) and saved equestria.  

 

2:She helped repair the crystal heart

Now I will agree at times season six didn't had some good episodes but I didn't think that the season six premiere was bad we always wanted to know more of the crystal kingdom and we saw that the crystal can be broken.Yeah... what i’m trying to fully say if wasn't for starlight talking to sunburst and helping him find a spell the crystal heart would've been still destroyed and the crystal empire would have been a winter wonderland    

 

3:She saved an innocent pony from going to limbo again

Now This is the biggest thing that starlight has done shadow play was slow at parts but it was really good but let's get back to starlight.Starlight was amazing in this episode more than where and back again she saw that stygian wasn't a bad guy all he wanted to do was to help them and be a part of the battle and  a darkness overtook him when he felt like he was nothing and the only pony that saw throught it was starlight she  saved an innocent pony from going to limbo.  

 

Now I know you may not like starlight after this but just look at this and think she's done some good she's doing her best to help the other characters and be a good friend and can we just agree that every character has their ups and down.

Exactly

Oh, I never hated Starlight. I see it interesting how she struggles with herself to be a better pony. 

[Jokingjaxson15 6]

1 hour ago, ShootingStar159 said:

If this was EQD or Fimfiction you might get a bit of backlash, but not around here. The vast majority of the fandom doesn’t think she’s a bad character, it just a very vocal minority that likes to kick up a stink about her. Once you start paying attention to names, you start to realize it’s the same people starting the same arguments, with the same complaints, and with the same results. The best thing to do is ignore them, but I do know how hard that can be.

 

1 minute ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

Exactly

Oh, I never hated Starlight. I see it interesting how she struggles with herself to be a better pony. 

I know right she’s a character that wants to become better and she’s gotten better. 

[Lucartini 104]

Rainbow Dash saved Equestria too, but people still hated on her for Daring Do.

It's Glimmer's turn to be the most hated pony of all time.

[Phill 1,285]

I started liking her a lot more from Season 6

[MAIKUN 262]

Hell yes she is still EVIL no matter what....right? Look at her, she is Twilight's doppelganger or Other Half like that Kingdom Hearts II game....you know?

[Prospekt 10,984]

I thought Starlight was a cool, unique villain. I mean, she was the first non-alicorn pony to really put up a fight. She was a perfect parallel to some pretty batty real world radical cult leaders. Not something you would expect on a kids show! I applaud the writers for that.

Starlight's reformation was a bit abrupt, but I do think it was heartwarming. I thought she had a lot of potential, and over the course of the last two seasons, I'm pleased to say that she has indeed developed wonderfully. My only gripe is that the writers set her up as a major character at the beginning of Season 6 and then proceeded to hardly use her. Season 7 was better for her, though.

[Steve Piranha 28,778]

Starlight never lived down her weak backstory  . While it is true that sometimes the other characters are dumbed down to her favor, I think she brought a spice the show was missing. I think she's one of the most interesting characters because of her impulsiveness and tendency of making mistakes on it

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Starlight is never a bad character to begin with, it just some of her writting directions are not very clear to me. S6 is supposed to be focus her post-reformation character and her status as the mane 7, but she absensed most of the time unless the plot called for it, unlike Sunset, they want Sunset to be humane 7 and we can see it through Rainbow Rocks, Starlight didnt even interact with the mane 6 beside Twilight (heck, the final song sequence in S5 finale is so fake) and mind control them. Starlight become friend with Trixie is one of the most interesting things of season 6 that build up for the finale as well, the problem is, do they want mane 7 or a new mane 6 Starlight edition? What do they really want?

Season 7 just fix Starlight story arc a lot, she finally being helpful for the group, she interact with more characters, she finally appeared a lot in episodes where she wasnt the main character (thanks god), her impulsive actions finally be called out bluntly (thanks Thorax), she finally solved the problem even without magics and didnt just take all the screentime of other (Fame & Misfortune, Shadow Play), FINALLY! She just downright amazing in S7, her popularity rised during S7, even some people who used to hate her become neutral, even downright like her.

Starlight problems are not her character, the character itself is good but the directions they want to take her are my concerns, even now, i still ask the same question to myself "what are they going to do with her?"....

.......The 7th Element of Harmony is my guess.

 

[Goat-kun 2,498]

59 minutes ago, Lambdadelta said:

Uh-Oh SpaghettiOs

You do realize you are all describing her as one would be describing a person. You are pretty much saying that she's a good little pony, but none of you have explained why she's a good character. In fact, you've done a fairly adequate job of explaining why she's a bad MLP character.

 

I might agree that she's a good little pony. I might also hold a belief that Rarity is a useless piece of horsemeat. When was the last time you saw me arguing with her fans? Damn, I'm doing a pretty bad job as a hater. Shame on me.

 

Also tell me how neutrality works for a figment of a toy commercial. I don't quite understand.

[Kadeda 178]

Only thing that is a bit questionable about starlight is her reasoning for turning evil. I think her reform in season 6 was handled perfectly. Nobody is gonna believe a complete change from bad to good. It would take time. She still had impulses when she was evil but didn't mean any harm. I think that made way more sense then her becoming perfectly good at the drop of a hat. People want these characters to be perfect for some reason immediately and it just doesn't work like that. 

I have to agree though that she seems a little too powerful... but villians always are. On most shows though... if a villian turns good... they lose all that power for some reason. I guess you could say she is a small demonstration of how dangerous Twilight is.

[Thrond 3,257]

9 hours ago, Jokingjaxson15 said:

      

1:she saved equestria   

Now the mane six haved saved equestria seven or eight times but the point is it's because of starlight and her suicide squad like team that they saved equestria.She was the only one since both her and trixie went to our town for the celebration and then wasn't there for the kidnapping of the mane six and spike and it was because of her leadership that trixie,discord,and thorax gotten along(part of the time) and saved equestria.  

 

2:She helped repair the crystal heart

Now I will agree at times season six didn't had some good episodes but I didn't think that the season six premiere was bad we always wanted to know more of the crystal kingdom and we saw that the crystal can be broken.Yeah... what i’m trying to fully say if wasn't for starlight talking to sunburst and helping him find a spell the crystal heart would've been still destroyed and the crystal empire would have been a winter wonderland    

 

3:She saved an innocent pony from going to limbo again

Now This is the biggest thing that starlight has done shadow play was slow at parts but it was really good but let's get back to starlight.Starlight was amazing in this episode more than where and back again she saw that stygian wasn't a bad guy all he wanted to do was to help them and be a part of the battle and  a darkness overtook him when he felt like he was nothing and the only pony that saw throught it was starlight she  saved an innocent pony from going to limbo.  

Good behaviour does not equal good characterization. My main complaints about Starlight are that she is inconsistent, that she's lacking in personality, and that her character relationships are poorly thought out, which these examples don't really do anything to disprove. 

4 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

Season 7 just fix Starlight story arc a lot, she finally being helpful for the group, she interact with more characters, she finally appeared a lot in episodes where she wasnt the main character (thanks god), her impulsive actions finally be called out bluntly (thanks Thorax), she finally solved the problem even without magics and didnt just take all the screentime of other (Fame & Misfortune, Shadow Play), FINALLY! She just downright amazing in S7, her popularity rised during S7, even some people who used to hate her become neutral, even downright like her.

Starlight problems are not her character, the character itself is good but the directions they want to take her are my concerns, even now, i still ask the same question to myself "what are they going to do with her?"....

Well, yes, I have the same concern, and I think a lot of that comes from season 7 doing basic damage control to make her palatable without really doing a lot to make her interesting. I think if she had more of the consistency and personality I think she lacks, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

9 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

You do realize you are all describing her as one would be describing a person. You are pretty much saying that she's a good little pony, but none of you have explained why she's a good character. 

Maybe my definition of good character could be different from yours, that why we saw the same things but we interpret thing differently. 

9 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

In fact, you've done a fairly adequate job of explaining why she's a bad MLP character.

Point out some flaws doesnt not mean I am saying its bad, but you can take them as your ammunition as you please. 

9 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Also tell me how neutrality works for a figment of a toy commercial. I don't quite understand.

How about my friend? He watched pony, he enjoyed it but he doesn't a buck about this fandom drama any slightness, he doesn't consider himself a brony, he can hate the episodes but he doesn't outright hate any character and go around bad-mouthing them, he never nitpicking the show, he doesn't pick any side of the spectrum because its a waste of his time. In the end of day, that guy just watch this cute show, have a good day. Neutrality to its finest? All this guy do is asking innocuously "where the next episode?" awww, I want to be that guy sometime, not try to come up any speculation about some episodes that not even aired and expect the worst out of its or just expecting too much from it. 

You and I are stucked in the other ends of the spectrum...

10 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

I might also hold a belief that Rarity is a useless piece of horsemeat. When was the last time you saw me arguing with her fans? Damn, I'm doing a pretty bad job as a hater. Shame on me.

Arguing about Rarity being a bad horse only work during pre-S4, it just an out-dated argument that not attract many people nowadays, it belong to the museum now, you get nothing from that anymore. Starlight debates are still very 'fresh', I guess, it still didn't get past its expiradate date yet, enjoy it before you get bored.

 

6 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Well, yes, I have the same concern, and I think a lot of that comes from season 7 doing basic damage control to make her palatable without really doing a lot to make her interesting. I think if she had more of the consistency and personality I think she lacks, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

People can like the characters for many specific reasons, relatability (people can identify themselves to the character), coolness (they have no depth, they are even cliché as heck but they  kickass and that's all matter), admirable (the characters are someone you can look up to), well-constructed (this is debatable, because some tropes work for some people), thought-provoking (some people just like complexity) or they are just fun to watch anyway.  Some characters just work for some people, if whether her characters are bad or not was a fact, then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. All I could say is S6 gave me many concerns about this character future, but now, I just feel much better.

Any Starlight debate threads feel like a paradox to me

[Goat-kun 2,498]

10 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

 

Nope. That is my personal opinion on that kind of a character. I dislike ineffectual divas. They are among the first to go in my little corner of fantasy. Of course, that has nothing to do with effectiveness of a character inside its own medium. I think Rarity is a good MLP character so there is nothing to discuss with her fans besides future development along with an occasional ribbing. And again: being a good character does not mean being a good person. Recounting deeds without a broader picture is spaghetti.

 

So, how much pony merchandise has your neutral friend bought? How much of that merchandise is Starlight-related? You already know which round red truth bomb I'd use next, don't you The Christmas raid has refilled my ammunition stores so much I don't even know what to do with it all. Anyhow, you got it all wrong: it is your overly neutral friend who is a waste of time for fans and IP owners. Lukewarm bystanders have no place in this conversation but to further demonstrate that there are no FIM characters under the current paradigm that can make them become emotionally invested. What would it take, I wonder.

 

Now, as far as those that are neutral or right down positive towards Starlight are concerned, would they care if she was removed? I cannot answer this in a simple manner and neither can you. We can only indirectly gauge the effects of their collective feelings. In the end, it would seem that Starlight amounts to nothing. The gods would not have her. But since your side is so anti-drama I guess everything will be just fine. Though I am a little concerned since you are billions or something.

[Thrond 3,257]

 

12 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

Some characters just work for some people, if whether her characters are bad or not was a fact, then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all.

Well, okay. I don't want to tell you not to like her. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by AlexanderThrond

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

3 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

being a good character does not mean being a good person.

They dont have to. People can love a villain just as much as hero while still rooting for their downfall.

3 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

So, how much pony merchandise has your neutral friend bought? How much of that merchandise is Starlight-related

My friend bought none and he's Spike fan, but you can dismiss him because he didnt get his opinions to the forum.

3 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Though I am a little concerned since you are billions or something.

During S6, i thought there are billions of you in the internet, i was paranoid a little bit. I seriously thought she will be removed in S7 premiere...  I saw many people rejoiced in EQD when they thought she would be removed...

3 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

would they care if she was removed

These kind of topics can keep going because some people care, and of course its internet, i dont even know who you are anyway. I subscribed a lot of mlp youtubers (over 20) that generally like her, being ok with her, or even downright fanboying, suddenly remove her should get their reactions, of course its internet again but those people have showed their faces and expressed their opinions for years so... 

Starlight still a fictional character anyway but humans are capable of sympathize with fictional character and they can be a bit crazy sometime so...

If Starlight leave the show with a bang? Awesome, it just too much we could ask for. 

2 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Well, okay. I don't want to tell you not to like her. 

Of course, i knew you just express your opinions. Actually, your points about Starlight has many similarities as mine, it's just our conclusion is different. I have to say Starlight character is very tricky to write ;).

I have a little concerns about her in S8... Hope i am just overthinking it...

Edited January 26, 2018 by Lambdadelta

[Goat-kun 2,498]

9 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

They dont have to. People can love a villain just as much as hero while still rooting for their downfall.

My friend bought none and he's Spike fan, but you can dismiss him because he didnt get his opinions to the forum.

During S6, i thought there are billions of you in the internet, i was paranoid a little bit. I seriously thought she will be removed in S7 premiere...  I saw many people rejoiced in EQD when they thought she would be removed...

These kind of topics can keep going because some people care, and of course its internet, i dont even know who you are anyway. I subscribed a lot of mlp youtubers (over 20) that generally like her, being ok with her, or even downright fanboying, suddenly remove her should get their reactions, of course its internet again but those people have showed their faces and expressed their opinions for years so... 

Starlight still a fictional character anyway but humans are capable of sympathize with fictional character and they can be a bit crazy sometime so...

If Starlight leave the show with a bang? Awesome, it just too much we could ask for.

It's the same problem games and comics have at the moment. There are people with opinions about a product but they are not the ones who consume the product. If you don't go beyond this static you'll get your plot handed to you on a silver platter. It's the reason why I tend to vehemently dismiss fan opinions (including those on the forum). It took RTS tossers around ten years to figure out 200 APM with tons of damage is not something majority of RTS fans enjoy. And it will take another ten years for tossers to figure out that cute girls in skimpy outfits are not misogyny.

 

Fanboy as much as you all like. Who am I to stop you. However, when Starfoals are the ones who initiate such a debate I do expect some coherent answers without all this horn stroking. All I got is that she's a good little pony. Well shit, so is Twist. Guess they need to let her save Equestria a couple of times and she'll be able to join Mane 6 too.

 

It seems to me that many of you are now just searching for some whisper of admission, for a secret sign of victory. Some have dug themselves quite a deep hole. There is nowhere to go but down. This is becoming a nuisance for the fandom. Resolve it among yourselves as it's clear that you don't want this dialogue to continue.

[Jeric 46,834]

On 1/24/2018 at 5:05 PM, Goat-kun said:

What makes a bad character?

This is an interesting question, and not one that is often asked on this site. The list of bad character red flags tends to be miles longer than the opposite. I'll stay clear of TV trope definitions since I think they may be a bit over-utilized in fandom conversation.

One element that signifies a bad character is a revelation of a trait or attribute that seemingly comes out of nowhere. Surprisingly, with respect to Starlight, this applies in Season Five and Season Six. While she was initially shown as competent with magic, the degree of that skill was ratcheted up to place her at an even playing field with Twilight. While I don't have a problem with that by itself, the writers missed an opportunity to flesh out exactly how she was so skilled. 

In Season Six, she had a personality transplant of sorts. Her anger was too quickly replaced with social ineptitude and it wasn't until Season Seven that we saw an increase in saltiness. Though it was welcome for me, it also felt a little like whiplash considering they seemed to be going in another direction in Season Six. 

I'm generally not a fan of how they got the character from point A to B, and like some, I'm not entirely certain the writers knew what to do with her at first. 

While I am quite fond of the character now, I can't ignore the mistakes in trying to evolve her, and those sorts of mistakes can be a death blow to most characters for most people. 

I'll circle back because there are more mistakes that do want to mention, perhaps with literary characters as a good compare and contrast of similar issues.