news ToonKriticY2K and accusations of sexual misconduct

[Divine plywood 1,232]

I'm not familiar with judicial system and lenghts of prison sentences in US. I come from country where we really don't have concept like life sentence. "Sentenced for life" is only a legal term meaning practically up to 20 years in prison. After that convicts are paroled. It is impossible to spend your whole life behind the bars, regardless of how severe and horrible the crime was.

Many have said that sexual predators and pedophiles like ToonKritic deserve what's coming to them and that they wouldn't feel bad if other inmates would take justice in their own hands and let him taste his own medicine. As said, I don't know how long sex offenders will rot in prison in US, but if there is change that Toon will one day walk from prison gates as a free man, I hope that he have been treated better than he deserves or than he have treated others. I hope that his time in prison won't make him even more messed up and evil than he already is. Not because I would feel sorry for this creep, but for the sake of his possible future victims.

[Cardia~Burn 7]

What makes it more disgusting was that there were several people and it wasnt only online. There were irl 13 year olds assaulted by him. 

It makes me sick to hear that at some point, three years ago, the police let him out. (He mentioned being in trouble with the cops for pedophilia. I dont trust his word when he says someone lied about their age)

Though, I guess what makes me even sicker is Horse News? Some of those comments are so gross. 

[maverickBNA 42]

Yeah, I've been avoiding reading the actual chat transcripts and watching the victim's stories in fear of hearing the horror of what he actually did. I'm more interested in tracking his progress through the judicial system, any indictments, trial, etc.

I want him to get the mental health care that he obviously needs, but I don't want him to escape justice either.

[Nightfall Gloam 18,236]

Just now, maverickBNA said:

Yeah, I've been avoiding reading the actual chat transcripts and watching the victim's stories in fear of hearing the horror of what he actually did. I'm more interested in tracking his progress through the judicial system, any indictments, trial, etc.

I've read a little bit of the logs, and heard some of the stories and yes, they are all very disturbing... For me it was enough to lose sleep over and question if I should even stay in the fandom...

[maverickBNA 42]

Just now, Nightfall Gloam said:

I've read a little bit of the logs, and heard some of the stories and yes, they are all very disturbing... For me it was enough to lose sleep over and question if I should even stay in the fandom...

I don't think I'm going to leave the fandom. We're generally good people, even if we have a few rotten apples in the bushel. I still have faith in humanity and friendship.

[Cardia~Burn 7]

Just now, Nightfall Gloam said:

I've read a little bit of the logs, and heard some of the stories and yes, they are all very disturbing... For me it was enough to lose sleep over and question if I should even stay in the fandom...

I love MLP, always did, but some of the fans, even if its the minority, were disgusting to me. Its beyond disgusting when you read so many of the commenters. (One had the gull to say that the victims were WILLING victims for Celestia's sake!) The Twitter storm was pretty bad too. 

6 minutes ago, maverickBNA said:

Yeah, I've been avoiding reading the actual chat transcripts and watching the victim's stories in fear of hearing the horror of what he actually did. I'm more interested in tracking his progress through the judicial system, any indictments, trial, etc.

I want him to get the mental health care that he obviously needs, but I don't want him to escape justice either.

I only saw two different things (the skype call and the horse news page) but what I gather is this:

Toon doesn't care. He needs to be locked and maybe even get mental health care, but he doesn't care nor want help. He has not once talked about his victim in the call, he says he cares for his friends but completely disregards the fact he just risked everyone he supposedly cared about's lives, and he completely lies and downplays everything.  The only real thing he was upset at was his horse fame being gone. He can only get help if he seeks it, but so far he doesnt see it as a need. He didnt even turn himself in when he stated he would. 

He needs help but I doubt he'd actually acknowledge he would. I don't think he'd do it without outside intervention forcing him to

 

[Canteen_the_unstable 7,963]

This sums it up pretty well 

 

[Varrack 1,080]

3 hours ago, Jeric said:

There is a popular view that a lack of condemnation and removal of desire for punishment goes hand in hand with that.

Correct; I'm trying to clear up that misconception. Punishment/condemnation and forgiveness aren't mutually exclusive.

3 hours ago, Jeric said:

There is a healthy schema in which to process these sorts of events, and anger is a legitimately understandable and potentially positive emotional to work through. Rushing through an internal process like that is not a goal anyone has an obligation to meet.

I don't dispute this; I meant forgiveness being an obligation as an end goal, meaning that we should eventually reach that point. The speed at which it is reached is irrelevant so long as it is. I can't, however, think of any sort of therapeutic method that would require holding on to anger indefinitely; that would defeat the purpose of "working through" said anger.

3 hours ago, Jeric said:

He deserves anger though. 

Only if said anger helps in the rehabilitation process. Tempestuously projecting anger would not help anyone; it would only brew more negativity. You could probably argue that a certain amount could help with process it, but I'm sure you can agree that at some point it becomes unhealthy.

3 hours ago, Jeric said:

I am reassured by the views that the Feedback topic has that this area of the fandom hasn't fallen prey to that specific bias. I don't believe that anyone here feels this is all that isolated. It least that's what not what I'm picking up. 

I probably could've worded that better; I meant that the shock value of this incident shouldn't have been what it was. Some have openly wondered if they should leave the fandom over this, as if sexual harassment isn't something that happens here. We've created this "norm" of what the community is like, that when that norm is shattered, so are our perceptions of the community. I meant that predators aren't rare here and that we shouldn't act as if they are.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Exposing such predators is always the right thing to do. Some people like to succumb to the logic that exposing them might somehow tarnish the community. That is false. Not exposing them tarnishes it much worse. One way or another, these things come out. We might want to be the fandom that knows how to handle itself without fear of external scrutiny as external scrutiny is inevitable.

 

There is no forgiveness. One needs to hold no rage to be unforgiving. The good doctor would surely understand.

[Steve Piranha 28,778]

Something that concerns me, is that it's implied he has an history of indecent behavior towards minors

 

[Will Guide 21,325]

This is sooooo much worse than when Tommy Oliver left the reviewers community insulting the show and the whole fanbase.

Edited January 31, 2018 by WiiGuy2014

[Varrack 1,080]

4 hours ago, Divine plywood said:

I come from country where we really don't have concept like life sentence. "Sentenced for life" is only a legal term meaning practically up to 20 years in prison. After that convicts are paroled.

Norway, right?

Yeah, our judicial system seems revenge-based. Keeping someone in a cell doesn't help people, treatment does. Prison itself is not a form of rehabilitation, and our high recidivism rates allude to that..

If indicted, he'll probably spend a few years in jail with no mental health treatment. It would be saddening, but it preferable to nothing...

16 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

There is no forgiveness. One needs to hold no rage to be unforgiving. The good doctor would surely understand.

Let me refer you to the actual definition of forgiveness...

Edited January 31, 2018 by Varrack

[Phill 1,285]

26 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Exposing such predators is always the right thing to do. Some people like to succumb to the logic that exposing them might somehow tarnish the community. That is false. Not exposing them tarnishes it much worse. One way or another, these things come out. We might want to be the fandom that knows how to handle itself without fear of external scrutiny as external scrutiny is inevitable.

 

 

 

There is no forgiveness. One needs to hold no rage to be unforgiving. The good doctor would surely understand.

 

I agree. Whenever something like this happens (And Hopefully it will never happen again) these people need to be called out for their actions. The fanbase need to make it clear that these people don't represent the fandom. And keeping quiet will only make the fandom look guilty. 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Phill

[Guest]

Where the hell is Chris Hanson? We need you, Chris.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,151]

Let's keep the thread on topic people; we don't need this to be distracted with unrelated arguments or disagreements.

Thank you.

[Feather Scribbles 194]

After hearing this, I am probably going to leave the fandom. I know that people like ToonKritic do not represent the MLP fandom, but his actions nonetheless absolutely sicken me.

I was also disturbed by his attire. No, the attire itself does not disturb me directly - rather, I once considered wearing a top hat and such. But upon hearing this story (I barely knew who Toon was up until this point, as I am quite new to the fandom), I would not feel comfortable wearing one.

I love MLP, and the fandom is amazing. But... I just cannot take it. If anyone found out that I love watching the show, then they might choose to remind me of this sick and twisted man... and they might claim he is the definition of a MLP fan (who is an adult). I don't even know if I feel comfortable watching the show anymore.

This guy deserves to be locked up, and to never see the light of day again.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Feather Scribbles

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

14 hours ago, Rebellious Rainbow said:

however all I see is the mob with torches who just want to burn a witch on the stake. To a certain extent I feel disgusted with the community.

Everyone is absolutely right to feel completely angry and completely disgusted towards TK. If they want to express complete and utter hatred, disgust, and contempt for him, they're completely justified. He hurt countless people: his friends (both in and out of the analysis community, most of whom are really good people), family, friends, fans, and especially his victims. The brony community understands what he did shouldn't be ignored, and bronydom should be proud for letting everyone know that child predators have no place in the fandom.

13 hours ago, Rebellious Rainbow said:

Forgive for your own sake, not specifically for the sake of the person you hate, that is his words. Simply put it he didn't said we should forgive Toon, he said that this hatred shouldn't consume our lives because this would be extremely unhealthy.

I can understand where Wolf's coming from. He and TK worked together on many projects over the years (including the brony reviewer TF2 project), and it's safe to say they were friends, too. Like I wrote earlier, he can't speak for TK's victims, but he can speak for himself. Wolf's a Mormon, and his perspective of forgiveness is both religious and of personal experience from his bro. Even after all the disgusting crimes he committed and all that deception and manipulation, his decision to forgive him shows his grace and maturity, and I commend him for that. But like I wrote above, that's a very individual choice. Those who don't want to forgive TK have every right, and we can't blame them for that.

53 minutes ago, Feather Scribbles said:

I love MLP, and the fandom is amazing. But... I just cannot take it. If anyone found out that I love watching the show, then they might choose to remind me of this sick and twisted man... and they might claim he is the definition of a MLP fan (who is an adult). I don't even know if I feel comfortable watching the show anymore.

Doing this only lets people like Toon win, whether he goes to jail or not. Anyone who decides to use TK as the epitome of what a brony is needs to be educated of both the show and its fanbase. Don't let that fear of shame and embarrassment influence what you enjoy both in and out of the fandom.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[RDDash 18,864]

@Dark Qiviut

I agree that everyone has a right to choose, however to me as strange as it may sound Toon's personal life doesn't really affect my own. My view is this, he should go to criminal court and then the judicial system should then pass a judgment on to him.That would be the fairest option for everyone. 

Child predators don't belong exclusively to the brony fandom. Herbert the Pervert from Family Guy, please feel free to be offended and disgusted because you probably should.

 

[cuteycindyhoney 13,283]

I never heard of him until I just now Googled his screen name. If the stories are true, and it certainly looks like they are, he should be placed under arrest.

[RDDash 18,864]

Here is the infamous Skype Call Video

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Doing this only lets people like Toon win, whether he goes to jail or not. Anyone who decides to use TK as the epitome of what a brony is needs to be educated of both the show and its fanbase. Don't let that fear of shame and embarrassment influence what you enjoy both in and out of the fandom.

Dude seriously shut up.

Stop trying to find a way to defend the fandom. That thought shouldn't be on anyone's minds right now, it isn't even something that should be uttered. We should be accepting the reality that this fandom has the real potential to lure in predators and should not be downplaying that and instead focusing SOLELY on fixing the problem instead of trying to defend the fandom. What you're doing right here is counter productive and it downplays what happened just like when you were trying to imply this is super rare to the fandom, well guess what? It isn't any rarer here than anywhere else. The more you try to distance the fandom from it, the more you look like you're trying to excuse it.

For uttering how much you need to be "educated' in the show you sure seem to know so little about how to console your fellow fans. These people have REAL fears and they are justified fears. If they want to leave the fandom over these fears what you are doing is more or less shaming them for doing so.

How about instead of that you show them that these kind of things are taken seriously, and that you will never downplay this kind of thing which is sort of what you're doing.

Look I've worked on many brony sites as I said and we have had instances on this site here which shall remain unspoken of where sexual misconduct happens. It's not that uncommon and it's a problem that no one has really been addressing until now. When I worked on sites I was instructed to even keep quiet about it.

If a single word of defending the fandom leaves your lips during these pressing times your priorities are already screwed up.

8 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Everyone is absolutely right to feel completely angry and completely disgusted towards TK. If they want to express complete and utter hatred, disgust, and contempt for him, they're completely justified. He hurt countless people: his friends (both in and out of the analysis community, most of whom are really good people), family, friends, fans, and especially his victims. The brony community understands what he did shouldn't be ignored, and bronydom should be proud for letting everyone know that child predators have no place in the fandom.

This statement is better. Your values should stick entirely to this. Your focus should be entirely on this.

[ZethaPonderer 2,196]

Umm, wow. Well if all of this is deemed true and this ToonCriticY2K is breaking the law for seeking consent with minors under 18 under US Law (provided that he even lives there to begin with) then he is deemed guilty and must be punished accordingly.

 

Age of Consent has always been a subjective law where consent is determined by an arbitrary number in the grand scheme of things and is mostly relied on pure physicality. Not so much on psychology, intelligence, and maturity since those might be hard to quantify. Human beings are different after all e.g. A person who’s 40 years old, but mental age mirrors that of a 4 year old (mentally challenged) or a teenager that’s only 15 years old yet the teen’s mental age mirrors that of a 50 year old (a wise teenager).

 

I personally think the age of consent law is quite unfair for delivering a just punishment for both the criminal and the victim. Hebephilia (Adolescents and Teenagers who are beginning to develop a sense of awareness for sex and are mostly deemed rebellious natured) =/= Pedophilia (Pre-Pubescent Children who have zero development for the awareness of sex and are deemed innocent).

 

Basically what I’m trying to get at for saying my peace of this sensitive matter is that if we truly value the lives of children and we establish a law where we label both those who are attracted to young individuals that have different labels already established as Pedophiles in the same light; Then it’s best to absolutely restrict Dating (seeking permission from parents) and people who seek relationships (young or old) must be direct and upfront about their ages when going on dates.

 

If any person takes offense when someone asks them what age they are when seeking romantic relationships then they are the problem since the law requires it and they’re blatantly being willfully ignorant of the age of consent law which for them should be given a fine IMHO.

 

But all in all for the sake of following the law, ToonKriticY2K not only goes to jail and receive punishment, but be tried for rehabilitation if possible to make sure he NEVER does this again.

 

Don’t worry Bronies/Pegasisters. He wouldn’t worry me for a Non-Brony like me as long as the majority of the said fandom is against him in every way.

 

One Bad Apple might spoil you all, but just because its one bad apple doesn’t mean the rest are deemed spoiled yet.

Edited January 31, 2018 by ZethaPonderer
Adding one more word there in the definition of Hebephilia which is ‘sex’

[Feather Scribbles 194]

1 minute ago, ZethaPonderer said:

Umm, wow. Well if all of this is deemed true and this ToonCriticY2K is breaking the law for seeking consent with minors under 18 under US Law (provided that he even lives there to begin with) then he is deemed guilty and must be punished accordingly.

 

Age of Consent has always been a subjective law where consent is determined by an arbitrary number in the grand scheme of things and is mostly relied on pure physicality. Not so much on psychology, intelligence, and maturity since those might be hard to quantify. Human beings are different after all e.g. A person who’s 40 years old, but mental age mirrors that of a 4 year old (mentally challenged) or a teenager that’s only 15 years old yet the teen’s mental age mirrors that of a 50 year old (a wise teenager).

 

I personally think the age of consent law is quite unfair for delivering a just punishment for both the criminal and the victim. Hebephilia (Adolescents and Teenagers who are beginning to develop a sense of awareness for sex and are mostly deemed rebellious natured) =/= Pedophilia (Pre-Pubescent Children who have zero development for the awareness of sex and are deemed innocent).

 

Basically what I’m trying to get at for saying my peace of this sensitive matter is that if we truly value the lives of children and we establish a law where we label both those who are attracted to young individuals that have different labels already established as Pedophiles in the same light; Then it’s best to absolutely restrict Dating (seeking permission from parents) and people who seek relationships (young or old) must be direct and upfront about their ages when going on dates.

 

If any person takes offense when someone asks them what age they are when seeking romantic relationships then they are the problem since the law requires it and they’re blatantly being willfully ignorant of the age of consent law which for them should be given a fine IMHO.

 

But all in all for the sake of following the law, ToonKriticY2K not only goes to jail and receive punishment, but be tried for rehabilitation if possible to make sure he NEVER does this again.

 

Don’t worry Bronies/Pegasisters. He wouldn’t worry me for a Non-Brony like me as long as the majority of the said fandom is against him in every way.

 

One Bad Apple might spoil you all, but just because its one bad apple doesn’t mean the rest are deemed spoiled yet.

To respond to the last part of your sentence, you are being incredibly selfish. Do NOT go up and start defending the fandom. That should be the least of our concerns right now. I, for one, will most likely be leaving the fandom relatively soon due to people like ToonKriticY2K.

[ZethaPonderer 2,196]

Just now, Feather Scribbles said:

To respond to the last part of your sentence, you are being incredibly selfish. Do NOT go up and start defending the fandom. That should be the least of our concerns right now. I, for one, will most likely be leaving the fandom relatively soon due to people like ToonKriticY2K.

So shining an optimistic light on the situation of the fandom within this terrible situation is deemed selfish? Well that’s a first time I’m ever hearing that. How so exactly I’m legit curious? One person belonging in a fandom doing terrible things shouldn’t really decide the fate of the entire fandom to live or die. Otherwise, no fandoms would exist if we all live by that line of reasoning collectively. Period.

[Feather Scribbles 194]

2 minutes ago, ZethaPonderer said:

So shining an optimistic light on the situation of the fandom within this terrible situation is deemed selfish? Well that’s a first time I’m ever hearing that. How so exactly I’m legit curious? One person belonging in a fandom doing terrible things shouldn’t really decide the fate of the entire fandom to live or die. Otherwise, no fandoms would exist if we all live by that line of reasoning collectively. Period.

I am saying that instead of defending the fandom outright (ex. saying that ToonKritic does not define us), we should be ensuring that other people know that what he did is not acceptable within the fandom. We have to take this extremely seriously. Sometimes you have to face the darkness in order to emerge back into the light. (If the fandom ever recovers. But it isn't just about the fandom anymore.)

But then again, we are all entitled to our own opinion.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Feather Scribbles