Mesme Rize

Movies/TV Black Panther and the Media praising it as "the most progressive movie ever"

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(If this topic is too risky, feel free to put it in the debate pit)

Black-Panther-poster-main-xl.jpg

It is certainly no surprise that everyone is very hyped for the newest Marvel superhero movie Black Panther and i have no problem if anybody else has, because i also like to watch these movies, because they are mostly a great time and are great popcorn flicks.

However, over the last few weeks, i saw a very strange trend going on in the mainstream media and several news outlets telling us what a big milestone is supposed to be and how it will inspire millions of minorities, for finally having their own superhero. It goes even so far, that whenever somebody is coming out in public, saying that this movie is far from perfect, is being labeled a racist and is part of Trumps America.

We gotta make something clear here...This is a superhero movie and not the color purple (which came out 3 decades ago and also had all black cast) saying that this movie is revolutionary is delusional. Also, black panther dosen't belong to anybody, neither do other superheroes like Spider Man, Iron Man, Wolverine, Thor, or whoever. I know of black children playing pretend some of these super heroes and nobody was thinking of race or any sort of that kind.

I fear that this will, no matter if this movie is good or not, hurt the sales of the movie. Whenever it's people being totally tired of the media pandering to it, or worse, radical black groups trying to stop non black movie goers to watch it because "this movie dosen't belong to you."

Also, got a short vid that summarizes the whole situation (WARNING: Heavy language)

Spoiler

 

What is your thought on the current situation?

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*rolls eyes*

Remember kids: You can’t like or relate to a character unless they have the same amount of melanin in their skin as you.

  • Brohoof 11

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I never once focused or cared about the skin colour of the characters. I just want to see a good, fun superhero movie. And that's what this film should be. And I've noticed that the people who claim to be against racism are the one's who focus on race the most. 

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Just now, Phill said:

I never once focused or cared about the skin colour of the characters. I just want to see a good, fun superhero movie. And that's what this film should be. And I've noticed that the people who claim to be against racism are the one's who focus on race the most. 

That's also what i noticed and it perplexes me, because these people who are against racism are also racist in their own way for saying that they can't identify with any other super hero, except one that is their color.

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Another storm in a teacup.  It's a Marvel superhero film, and I'm sure it will be a perfectly serviceable addition to that genre, but quite frankly anyone thinking that this film will be any more than just that is deluded.

I have seen astounding levels of rhetoric relating to this film, from people saying that it's a vision of what Africa would have looked like without European colonialism to the other end of the scale announcing Black Panther to the new mascot of the Alt-right because Wakanda is basically the ethnostate that they lust after.

At the end of the day it's a Marvel superhero film, that's all.  If you can only relate to a character that shares the same colour of skin as you then that is a problem with you, not the film industry, doubly so when you bear in mind that Black Panther is far from being the first black superhero that has made it onto film.

How good it actually turns out to be is a question that I'll be unable to answer for myself until it comes onto Netflix (if it ever does, and I doubt I'll be signing up for the impending Disney streaming service).  This is not because I have any problem with the film itself, or even the ridiculous hype surrounding it, the simple fact is that the last superhero film I saw in the cinema was Superman IV.  I do enjoy the odd superhero film but I've never seen one coming over the horizon that I've been excited enough about to go and pay the price of a cinema ticket to see it.

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It's the world we live in, in order for minority groups to be normal they have to be singled out and presented as different to everyone else, which is the opposite of making things normal. Instead of enjoying a good film with good actors who just happen to be black, or female, etc people have to sit there and analyse them as social milestones. And so we stray further and further from true equality.

  • Brohoof 11

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I couldn't care less about the skin colors (nor should anyone), all i wanted is to see one of the greatest marvel heroes in live action movie. T'challa  should not be remembered as a "black hero" but as the black panther.

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Full disclosure: I have not seen Black Panther, and I have no intention to see it (Not because of the politics mind you, but simply because I'm not a big movie goer).  Having said that, I feel that the only reason people are praising it so highly is because of the current political climate.  Conveniently, however, they forget that this wasn't the first film adaptation of a black comic book hero, and both Blade and Steel beat this movie to the box office by 20 years.  However, when you get down to it, I can concede that Blade and Steel aren't really in the same league as Black Panther: Blade is about a vampire hunter and Steel...well, it stars Shaq as the protagonist, need I say more?

So yeah, I hope Black Panther is a good movie, politics aside, and I'm sure it is.  The problem lies entirely with the identitarians who think that this movie and everyone involved in it represent the greatest virtues of progress and anyone who has anything bad to say about it has no reason to hate the movie other than they're racist.  It'll be sad to see if this goes the way of Frozen which, again, while not necessarily a terrible movie, was overhyped and shoved down everyone's throats to the point that most people want nothing to do with it anymore.

Edited by Hazard Time

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Just playing Devil's advocate here, but if a film does not revolve around the race, gender, sex, etc. of the characters (aka anyone who isn't a straight white male), then the straight white men would still oppress those in Hollywood, and in a large part of the world as a whole. To say this movie (and the comics before it) aren't progressive is kind of being offensive and racist.

But honestly, many rarely care about "good characters" and a "good plot"; all that matters is if the movies are progessive or not. There are pros and cons to everything in all walks of life.

EDIT: But one thing I think we can all agree on is that Hollywood (specifically, the cast within movies) has a severe diversity problem. This cannot be ignored.

Edited by SunriseGlimmer

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1 hour ago, SunriseGlimmer said:

then the straight white men would still oppress those in Hollywood

*rolls eyes harder*

Remember kids: Straight white men are not a vast group of individuals, but an evil hive mind whose sole goal is oppress those that are different.

Edited by ShadOBabe
  • Brohoof 11

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@SunriseGlimmer you know, generalizing whiteman like that is also in itself racist and makes you look like a hypocrite.

Before you call anyone racist, you should think about what you say in the first place.

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59 minutes ago, ShadOBabe said:

*rolls eyes harder*

Remember kids: Straight white men are not a vast group of individuals, but an evil hive mind whose sole goal is oppress those that are different.

Bult they also have to remember that there are not just straight white men in the world (in television programming).

Just now, Mesmelicious Rize said:

@SunriseGlimmer you know, generalizing whiteman like that is also in itself racist and makes you look like a hypocrite.

Before you call anyone racist, you should think about what you say in the first place.

Alright, sorry about that. I was just playing devil's advocate and bringing in another angle, even if I do not agree with it.

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Just now, Mesmelicious Rize said:

@SunriseGlimmer you know, generalizing whiteman like that is also in itself racist and makes you look like a hypocrite.

Before you call anyone racist, you should think about what you say in the first place.

I saw no such generalization...

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Just now, Duzzkey said:

I saw no such generalization...

Quote

then the straight white men would still oppress those in Hollywood

If this isn't generalization towards whites, i don't know what is.

  • Brohoof 4
  • Yay 1

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I actually have high hopes for the movie. From all of the commercials, it looks like it will be an entertaining movie. I usually really like Marvel movies. 

I don't think the media that is looking at the movie with a completely uncritical view (they should at least wait until it is released) will really influence my opinion on the movie, just on the media itself. Just shows that the media does not really care about anything unless some kind of potential collectivized symbol can be seen in something, this instance being about race. 

 

Hopefully, the media won't screw over the movie. If people are critical of the movie and have something to offer in their criticism, they can do that. 

Anyways, been looking forward to the movie, hope it will be a fun one. 

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This is one of those topics that one has to watch the film to have a fully informed opinion and determine if criticism toward the media is warranted. Otherwise, you are just relying on third party information. Basically, the jury is still out. 

It looks good. I've liked the character since I was a kid. I'm certainly hoping I enjoy it since I'm quite fond of having a good time at the movies. :P

 

40 minutes ago, Mesmelicious Rize said:

@SunriseGlimmer you know, generalizing whiteman like that is also in itself racist and makes you look like a hypocrite.

Before you call anyone racist, you should think about what you say in the first place.

Humans are incapable of processing large numbers without scale. Generalization is not racist, it's biologically set in stone. Even those that suggest they don't generalize actually do, just in a different degrees. Trying too hard not to generalize also tends to lend itself to unwieldy language, to the point a person sounds ridiculous. 

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People similarly praised the last couple of Star Wars movies for their inclusion of a much greater variety of female and POC characters. Finn, Rey, Rose, Poe Dameron, Cassian Andor, Chirrut Imwe, Saw Gerrera, Admiral Holdo, Captain Phasma... all were new faces in the franchise. And people were raving over them.

But, you know what? There doesn't have to be a correlation between the fact that there are minority characters and the viewer's subjective experience while watching a movie. Now, I've seen some movies that were accused of "whitewashing." The live action adaptation of The Last Airbender was especially highlighted as an example of "whitewashing," because almost exclusively white actors were cast for the roles of characters who were supposed to be Asian in the original cartoon. And, guess what? I despise that film. I dislike the movie because I think it was written badly and it's a bad idea to stuff an entire season of a TV show into just a couple of hours. I wouldn't recommend the film to anyone who knows and loves the original show. Note that I didn't bring up ethnicity when I explained what I don't like about the film. In all honesty, I think they could have filmed the same exact script with Asian actors instead, and the movie wouldn't have been any better. I think it would have been slightly more faithful to the source material, but only on an aesthetic level. There's no use judging a movie primarily by the cast's race. I think that misses the point of the movie entirely.

Which brings us to the topic on hand--Black Panther. Will I see the movie? Sure, why not? It's Marvel. In my opinion, the Marvel Cinematic Universe tends to do a pretty awesome job presenting superheroes in a down-to-earth way, with flaws like any average human. And honestly, the trailers make the movie look promising. Lots of action. Breathtaking visual effects. I bet it's a fun superhero film in the style of most recent Marvel films. So what if the cast happens to be black? As long as you're not using a character's ethnicity to mock said ethnicity as a whole... it just doesn't matter. I mean, the Black Panther superhero has always been black. It's not a character who simply "became" black at some point in order to pander to any group of people. That's just who he is; Stan Lee and Jack Kirby wanted it that way from the beginning. And Chadwick Boseman is a great actor IMO. His role as Jackie Robinson in 42 is spectacular; him and Harrison Ford work so well together.

So I'm going to watch the movie for 1. the story, 2. the action, 3. the characters, and 4. Chadwick Boseman, irrespective of the color of his skin.

Go ahead, call me racist because I'm not going to see a movie just because of "representation." The mainstream media has an "anyone who criticizes our narrative is dangerous/racist/a Trump supporter" fetish. So it's not like I'm not used to being called a racist for being white, for who I voted for in 2016 (for the record, it was 3rd party candidate Gary Johnson), for being critical of all collectivist ideologies, and for making a statement like the one I made above.

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Rage_Against_the_Machine_-_Evil_Empire.p

(Actual album cover - not intended to offend :D  )

One of my fav records - never cared about the politics stuff, just the music.

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This is what will happen when the liberal left-wing fake media gets their hands on a movie. They turn it into something it isn't. In many ways, the fake media and those who follow every word of it are hypocrites. They said that black people now have a superhero they could identify with- but last I heard, it didn't matter what race you are to enjoy a superhero. They literally will say one thing and push for one thing, and then the next minute turn around and say something completely contradictory. I feel that this has only gotten worse with Trump being in office, the fake media has really over the past year doubled down on making every single new thing political or tie it in with a social issue- which again, they'll say one thing about it and turn around and say something else entirely. 

I'm so done with the big fake media trying to push their agenda on us :dry:       

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Just now, King of Canterlot said:

This is what will happen when the liberal left-wing fake media gets their hands on a movie. They turn it into something it isn't. In many ways, the fake media and those who follow every word of it are hypocrites. They said that black people now have a superhero they could identify with- but last I heard, it didn't matter what race you are to enjoy a superhero. They literally will say one thing and push for one thing, and then the next minute turn around and say something completely contradictory. I feel that this has only gotten worse with Trump being in office, the fake media has really over the past year doubled down on making every single new thing political or tie it in with a social issue- which again, they'll say one thing about it and turn around and say something else entirely. 

I'm so done with the big fake media trying to push their agenda on us :dry:       

I'm personally not saying this, but a lot of people would call you a racist for saying such things. For all future commenters (including myself): tread carefully.

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Black Panther being a milestone? 

Does nobody remember that these movies did that first?

Image result for blade trilogy

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Just now, SunriseGlimmer said:

I'm personally not saying this, but a lot of people would call you a racist for saying such things. For all future commenters (including myself): tread carefully.

It's my word and I'll stick by it, if you don't like it, then too bad, don't read it

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What if I told you that Black Panther is a very old symbol of a very white country. History aside, what will these woke black pumpkins do once Thanos starts burning their imaginary utopia of color and its king requires the help of them Aryan ubermenschen to fend him off? The Mad Titan may be purple, but we all know he's actually a cis white colonialist capitalist racist misogynistic bigot. Those Grand Wizards at Disney want to keep the black brother down.

 

What? Let them fall onto the very sword they've put so much effort into sharpening.

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