S08:E06 - Surf and/or Turf

[Thrond 3,257]

9 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

The hippogriff and seapony culture is really important. When the Storm King terrorized Mount Aris, they lived in hiding, and the audience didn't get to see their culture. His demise allows many of them to finally relocate back to their original homeland, some of them not in many years. They're very celebratory for a reason: They can celebrate their lives.

It doesn't just seem "celebratory" to me, it seems "tidy." Literally the only problem anyone comes across is because both hippogriff societies are too awesome.

9 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

@Nyactis Mewcis Catlum pointed this out in her response to @Truffles. Children depend on a stable home environment, something the hippogriffs lacked for years. Now, for the first time in many of their lives, they have the ability to live in a stable home. Most hippogriffs decided where to live, including most of Terramar's family; this is where the pressure comes from, explicitly stated in the show. Neither Skybeak now Ocean Flow could agree where to live, hence the split, and Terramar is subconsciously living on an island. To him, if he doesn't choose, then it's as if how he lives is no better than when the Storm King conquered Mount Aris, but if he does choose, then he says goodbye to one side of his family, and that kills him. This literal dilemma hurts him deeply inside, and that's crushing for him, since he's a kid who wants to belong.

Okay, I'll accept that. Still, the show's ultimate solution is more or less the status quo. Does he need a stable home environment or doesn't he?

Part of what I'm complaining about is that my own parents are divorced and I'm on good terms with both, and I don't feel this speaks to any of the genuinely challenging parts of my experience. This episode is just so... clean. From everything I've seen, you're a huge fan of clean, whereas I think it's a little too simplistic and undramatic. But then, my experience wasn't exactly like Terramar's here. 

9 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

History is a big factor. Prior to Lost Mark, they spent a large chunk of their childhood searching for who they are; the Map trusted them to use their own history to help guide Terramar into deciding where to live. Unfortunately, when they tried to help him, their own biases and tastes kick in, and they were using their feelings to blindly determine his home for him, leading to their fight and further confusion. They had to learn how their fight was only hurting him further, and after seeing his mom and dad be amicable to each other, they were able to figure out how to solve his dilemma.

So the map was wrong, is what you're saying. 

3 hours ago, VG_Addict said:

How is the season so far, in your opinion?

Acceptable. Way better than season 7. Sort of lacking the spark which initially drew me to the show, alas. 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by AlexanderThrond

[gingerninja666 487]

10 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

It doesn't just seem "celebratory" to me, it seems "tidy." Literally the only problem anyone comes across is because both hippogriff societies are too awesome.

Okay, I'll accept that. Still, the show's ultimate solution is more or less the status quo. Does he need a stable home environment or doesn't he?

Part of what I'm complaining about is that my own parents are divorced and I'm on good terms with both, and I don't feel this speaks to any of the genuinely challenging parts of my experience. This episode is just so... clean. From everything I've seen, you're a huge fan of clean, whereas I think it's a little too simplistic and undramatic. But then, my experience wasn't exactly like Terramar's here. 

So the map was wrong, is what you're saying. 

Acceptable. Way better than season 7. Sort of lacking the spark which initially drew me to the show, alas. 

 

Honestly for me, MLP is just a show I like watching because it's kind and because it's neat. I have such a hard time getting into shows nowadays, so I kinda like having something that's simple. I dunno.

 

I will say, it's interesting to me that the two episodes of this season I've liked the most are the ones that have most involved Starlight. I know loads of people have a big problem with Starlight, and I can't exactly disagree, but I dunno. I tend to perk up more when I know she's involved.

[Thrond 3,257]

Just now, gingerninja666 said:

Honestly for me, MLP is just a show I like watching because it's kind and because it's neat. I have such a hard time getting into shows nowadays, so I kinda like having something that's simple. I dunno.

I'm glad for you that it's scratching that itch. The kindness is a plus, but it's not the only reason I'm here. 

[ImpctR 155]

This was one lovely episode! 5/5! I have mentioned in past seasons that I am not interested in CMC episodes especially now when they found their role but if it wasn't for the plot I wouldn't have found this episode so pleasing to watch! Of course, if you could get away with not watching the Movie when watching School Daze, that was my case and it was still unclear to me, now I think this is a big plot hole and although the episode tried to explain some things, it cannot within 20 mins you just have to watch The Movie!

If I started liking the show after seeing the Hyppogryphs and that made me more interested in the School Six than the CMCs, an episode taking place at mount Aris was even better! I started liking Hyppogryphs more than ponies, I like the bird like idea more than the ponies especially when you imagine that inf not MLP making them cute they are basically 'horses', And the hyppos to me are even cuter!

 

So the episode starts with a train making such a long route to Mount Aris. This must be a new route, I will have to mention some things from the Movie there is no other way. So, in the Movie they had to walk all that distance by themselves through some desert and foul city and even then the place was only accessible by air. Of course defeating the Storm King restored some infrastructure but I still thought air would be their transport to that distant land. Now it seems accessible by the same train. Funny they didn't mention Tempest this time. I hope to see her in some episode.

 

Ahh the continuity is lovely, I see a new writer for the episodes but the continuity was good imo. I already remember the statues at the entrance to their town and the abandoned state it was in the Movie, still looks better in the movie but, it was done with such accuracy here, I liked seeing the same previously like a ghost town as Twi called it :

Spoiler

And now restored and full of life! It is just gorgeous and gave me a new hype for MLP, since it was fading season after season! I don't remember those Harmonizing Heights, yet another awesome place! As usual, nice job by the animators making beautiful places.

 

I was about to ask, now that the Hyppos are free from the Storm King, why aren't they all back to the air? I prefer flying hyppogryphs and was about to be in the same dilemma or similar whether to be interested in the seaponies or not, similar to the brother of Silver Stream. Though, that was explained well enough and the way the episode ended made me like both, being okay with still seeing mermaid ponies (although I was never interested in The Little Mermaid and the sea world and when the CMCs were under water reminded me as if watching the Disney cartoon).

Ahh the memories although that was so recent for me, the sea dwellings!

 

The dark blue underwater area reminded me of the Movie where they had to use bubbles to not drown.

 

Spoiler

 

I just like the places they show, that's why I have to post them to enjoy looking at them. Thanks for bringing that world from the Movie and here to the show, it makes the show so much more interesting!

 

Spoiler

 

A curious question: The Hyppos hail Twilight for her deed but I suppose Queen Novo still doesn't want to see her? There needs to be an ep or more than one where they try to improve their relations.

[Steve Piranha 28,751]

Seapony Scootie, is cutest cutie

Missed some parts, but already watched the leak, TWICE

My only disappointment is not reusing the seapony transformation music from the movie 

 

[YoshiAngemon 223]

2 hours ago, ImpctR said:

A curious question: The Hyppos hail Twilight for her deed but I suppose Queen Novo still doesn't want to see her? There needs to be an ep or more than one where they try to improve their relations.

More like they would need to pay extra to have the voice actress reprise her role from the Movie! Or they need to cast a perfectly good sound-alike to do the job for TV.

Still, Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo have differing opinions, but nopony ever listens to Apple Bloom, the boring one of the bunch, characteristically speaking. What does Scootaloo have? Tiny Wings, What does Sweetie Belle have? Horn and Magic. And what does Apple Bloom have? NOTHING! She's just an ordinary Earth Pony. But then, she has her hooves that can help till the soil, etc. She is the moral glue that keeps the team together.

[Dark Qiviut 22,160]

11 hours ago, VG_Addict said:

How is the season so far, in your opinion?

It's really good. While it doesn't have the highs of The Perfect Pear or a lot of S7, it doesn't have such lows, either. As bad as Fake It is, it ain't bottom-10-worthy. S8's more consistent. (I'm only factoring S7's first half, BTW.)

Currently, it's in third place, just behind S7; my overall order is 5 > 7 > 8 > 2 > 1 > 4 > 3 > 6.

7 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

It doesn't just seem "celebratory" to me, it seems "tidy." Literally the only problem anyone comes across is because both hippogriff societies are too awesome.

They weren't able to celebrate their culture, because they lived underground, isolated from all contact. Only recently the Storm King was destroyed. The relocation to the surface remains a revived experience that none of the hippogriffs want to pass up.

7 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Okay, I'll accept that. Still, the show's ultimate solution is more or less the status quo. Does he need a stable home environment or doesn't he?

Part of what I'm complaining about is that my own parents are divorced and I'm on good terms with both, and I don't feel this speaks to any of the genuinely challenging parts of my experience. This episode is just so... clean. From everything I've seen, you're a huge fan of clean, whereas I think it's a little too simplistic and undramatic. But then, my experience wasn't exactly like Terramar's here. 

No one's experience is the same. Their split's much cleaner, because they remained very friendly with each other without any bitterness. They want what's best for their son, but accidentally contributed to the instability and confusion he faced. Little bits of dialogue by both his parents show how much they wish to see him more, but also leads him to believe he spends little time with them (a point brought up by an EQD user).

7 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

So the map was wrong, is what you're saying. 

No, the map was right. The CMCs initially went about solving the problem the wrong way.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Music Chart Fan 818]

Overall, I might describe this episode as sort of escapism fluff, and while that does carry some appeal for me (and I can see the stronger appeal for others), my skepticism/cynicism kicks in and leads me to think that everything is a little too nice and happy in the episode to be fully believed. It seems like most of the episode is Twilight and the CMC being excited about travelling to Mt. Aris, and once there, going around seeing the sights, talking to everyone, and extolling the virtues of Mt. Aris and Seaquestria. All the hippogriffs and seaponies are perfectly nice and eager to show the guests around. Even the conflict of the episode is made into a reason to see the sights and talk to both of Terramar's parents, both of whom are also perfectly nice and loving. Terramar's dilemma also seemed to be solved pretty easily right at the end by essentially maintaining the status quo, although it's obviously nice to see him happy and apparently getting to live the good life. I won't have as much to talk about with this episode, but I'll briefly talk about the sheer niceness of everything and about Terramar's conflict.

First, throughout the episode, both Mt. Aris and Seaquestria are made out to be amazing places. If Sweetie Belle's and Scootaloo's song is to be believed, then Terramar's dilemma is essentially that there are two awesome places he could live, but they can't settle on which one is more awesome. But, as I mentioned above, my skepticism/cynicism makes me think that these places can't be as awesome as they're being made out to be. I can't help thinking that there are downsides to living in these places that we aren't seeing. Additionally, even if the Harmonizing Heights and/or Seaquestria seem amazing to the CMC right now, I could imagine that living in those places full-time and always having access to them would cause the sense of wonder to fade sooner or later. And I would also imagine that everyday life is likely to have a lot of the same mundane tasks no matter where one chooses to live. So the problem with Sweetie Belle's and Scootaloo's song and their advocacy is that the two of them are obviously both in awe at these places they're seeing for the first time. Thus, their current feelings aren't necessarily going to reflect what everyday life would be like living in these places long-term.

Next, I've seen a lot of people describing this as a divorce episode, suggesting that the conflict of the episode stems (in whole or in large part) from Terramar's parents being divorced. Maybe I'm crazy, but it didn't even occur to me during the episode that Terramar's parents are divorced, and I'm not seeing that as obviously being the case, to the point that it's treated as simply a fact. Terramar's parents' relationship is only briefly shown in the episode, and is never discussed, so I don't think we know the circumstances of why Sky Beak is currently living on Mt. Aris while Ocean Flow is currently living in Seaquestria.

To start, after Terramar says that he has this problem of choosing which place to live, he says that "Silverstream and my dad and some of my cousins came back here" to Mt. Aris, but that Sequestria is "where my mom is". He also says "And I have to choose soon. Every other griff my age already knows where they belong. I'm still not sure". That paints his decision to stay in Mt. Aris or in Seaquestria as something that lots of seaponies/hippogriffs are also doing, with perhaps everyone of at least a certain age deciding for themselves which place to (primarily) stay in. Are there any other parents or families deciding to have some of them live mainly as hippogriffs while others live mainly as seaponies? If Terramar's parents living in different places is an unusual arrangement, then Terramar doesn't volunteer any explanation for it, nor do Twilight or the CMC ever ask about it. And of course, Terramar doesn't say anything like "my parents are divorced, so I have to choose which of them I'll primarily live with".

Considering that Sky Beak and Ocean Flow are royalty (since Silverstream was identified as Queen Novo's niece), I could imagine, for example, the two of them having leadership positions among the hippogriffs and seaponies that keep them separate, but that they nonetheless agreed to do. Then their situation might be comparable to, say, politicians who live in the capital to work while their families stay back in their hometowns, or soldiers who are stationed away from home while their families stay back in their hometowns. In those cases, the fact that those couples, and possibly parents, are currently living separately doesn't necessarily mean that they must be divorced.

Finally, I was trying to think about what the CMC (and Twilight?) actually did to solve the problem that the Cutie Map called them for, since it seemed to be solved pretty quickly and easily. After the CMC retrieve Terramar from his tree, Sweetie Belle tells him that "we thought we'd get every creature together for a picnic on the beach", and Terramar apparently looks around in amazement. So do the hippogriffs and seaponies not meet for events in common like this, or do they not do it very often? I guess, in that case, the CMC would have helped to keep the hippogriffs and seaponies from drifting apart. The CMC (and Twilight?) also apparently told Terramar's parents about how he was feeling. That prompted Ocean Flow to tell Terramar "We're sorry if we ever made you think you had to choose between worlds. That wasn't our intention". So then why did he think that? Were his parents unintentionally pressuring him, and just not observing his anxiety? Was the rest of his family, or the hippogriff and seapony societies in general, also pressuring him to pick one or the other? Or was the idea that he had to choose just 100% in Terramar's head? I'm glad that Terramar's parents were informed of his internal struggle, and that they apologized to him and reaffirmed that they care for him regardless of where he lives, but I'm not sure that his parents were the only (external) source of his anxiety and his feeling that he had to choose.

Now here are the rest of my miscellaneous observations:

The CMC protest that Twilight doesn't need to come with them, because they can take care of this mission just fine on their own. But how old/mature are they supposed to be at this point? Are they old enough or mature enough to handle traveling beyond Equestria, finding (and possibly buying) things to eat and a place to stay, and finding and solving the friendship problem all by themselves? I thought of them as being the equivalent of middle-schoolers, and I wouldn't be so sure that middle-schoolers would be able to handle that.

It's a little strange to me that Twilight is undertaking the task of finding Silverstream's parents and getting them to sign her permission slip. Isn't that usually the student's job, rather than the teacher's or school administrator's job?

I'm not sure why Twilight is half-heartedly maintaining a facade of "just doing research" on the trip. Does she have to maintain her image of always being studious? Would the rest of the Mane Eight, or the parents of the students at the Friendship School, begrudge her taking a vacation, so she has to justify the trip as being for business?

Was that land bridge to Mt. Aris (over which the train travels) there previously? Or did that have to be artificially constructed in order to run the rail line over there? And if so, who paid for that? Is the train public transportation or private?

Apple Bloom's question about why the Cutie Map isn't more specific about their mission tries to lampshade the fact that the Cutie Map never tells the summoned characters whom they're supposed to help or where exactly they're supposed to go. But of course, the CMC don't ask any follow-up questions or insist on a real answer.

Is there any limit to what creatures the pieces of the magic pearl will turn into seaponies, or any limit to how many can be transformed with a single piece? Can any four-legged hooved creature turn into a seapony? Could, say, cows or deer be transformed into seacows or seadeer? How about other creatures? I guess Spike was transformed into a puffer fish, so what would other creatures be transformed into, if anything?

I guess that the magic that transforms everyone into seaponies also magically gives them the instincts/muscle memory/etc. to be able to swim as seaponies in a normal fashion with no experience.

Why doesn't the parchment permission slip become a soggy mess underwater? And how would a seapony go about signing a form like that, particularly underwater?

[gingerninja666 487]

My friend just saw this episode, and he described the episode as being less about divorce and more about choosing between your rediscovered heritage and the place in which you were born and that's become your home.

[Jeric 46,834]

44 minutes ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Why doesn't the parchment permission slip become a soggy mess underwater? And how would a seapony go about signing a form like that, particularly underwater?

Magic and squid ink.

 

[Brainstorm 4,092]

Glad everything worked out, Terramar didn't have to choose, he can go back and forth, and I'm sure he's not the only Hippogriff that does so. They can hold a Club for Hippogriffs that go back and forth. 

Maybe The Main Six and Spike, even Starlight and Trixie if she wants to can be Seaponies again. And maybe Terramar will visit Equestria to not only see Silverstream, but also Spike and everyone else.

[Thrond 3,257]

3 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

They weren't able to celebrate their culture, because they lived underground, isolated from all contact. Only recently the Storm King was destroyed. The relocation to the surface remains a revived experience that none of the hippogriffs want to pass up.

You're just repeating yourself and not engaging with my point. I'm not bothered that they're celebratory, I'm bothered that they're too nice, and therefore boring. 

3 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

No one's experience is the same. Their split's much cleaner, because they remained very friendly with each other without any bitterness. They want what's best for their son, but accidentally contributed to the instability and confusion he faced. Little bits of dialogue by both his parents show how much they wish to see him more, but also leads him to believe he spends little time with them (a point brought up by an EQD user).

Okay, that's fair. Though that comes back to my complaint that this episode weirdly downplays the human element in favour of exploring the setting. 

3 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

No, the map was right. The CMCs initially went about solving the problem the wrong way.

It's not clear to me how the way they went about it couldn't have been done by anyone else. You look at the map episodes in the past two seasons at least, and they're always very specific to the personalities in question. The CMC get in the way more than anything, and it's Twilight who tells them what to do. 

1 hour ago, Music Chart Fan said:

It's a little strange to me that Twilight is undertaking the task of finding Silverstream's parents and getting them to sign her permission slip. Isn't that usually the student's job, rather than the teacher's or school administrator's job?

This is probably an excuse to travel. 

[ggg-2 3,550]

Does anyone remember the early days of The Hub when they showed an anime called Deltora Quest? Fun fact: the voice actor for Terramar also voiced the main character of that anime.

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

Oh gawd, not movie stuff.

Spoiler

 

Okay, so I just hate being reminded about the movie, but once the Dramamine kicked in, it was a pretty good episode.  I really have no quarrel with the 'griffs.  I actually really like them.  Just hated the movie.  But a bright side for me here is that I finally got to see what the sea ponies and their kingdom should have looked like in the movie, with the proper animation.  (Yeah, I hated the animation change.  So sue me.)  So, that was nice.

I'm sure I've said this before, but the developmental path they took with the CMC is probably the most mature and brilliant writing decision they've ever made on the show.  I love how they've evolved beyond just being cutie mark counselors, and are now basically personally therapists and life coaches as well.  Post-Lost Mark CMC episodes rarely disappoint.  And this one was quite good as well.  I was a little bothered at how immature Sweets and Scoots were acting towards each other for a bit there, but eh, I guess it's okay.  They figured it out pretty quick.  They're still basically kids, too.  Don't have to be wise and perfect all the time.

Why didn't Twilight just teleport them there?  We know she can do that.  We've seen many times that she can teleport others, and that it takes extremely little effort for her to go pretty long distances.  Why do they bother taking the Exposition Train?  ....ohhhh.  Riiiiiight.  Think I just answered my own question...

What I liked most about this episode was the fact that Twilight actually went with them.  This was a big deal for two reasons.  Firstly, I would have had to go on a mega rant about how asinine, implausible, and irresponsible it would have been for the CMC to go all the way outside of Equestria by themselves.  Secondly, my biggest complaint about the Plot Map (besides the fact that it's the Plot Map), is the fact that ponies who are not directly summoned have always assumed by default that they are forbidden to go.  This really irritated me in Griffonstone and A Royal Problem.  In Griffon, Twilight was dying to go so she could see the Griffon's home and learn about them, but she lamented that she wasn't allowed, as she wasn't summoned.  Why the hell couldn't she just go and sight-see while RD and Pinkie handled the problem??!!  And in Royal, Twilight not only assumed she was forbidden to go, but that she was forbidden to even offer Starlight advice!  SAYS WHO?!  Did the map say that?!  Was it some kind of f*cking test?!  Like when Counselor Troi took the bridge offer's exam, and Commander Riker wasn't allowed to help or offer advice?!  As you can see, it gets me really whipped up, and I went on at some length about it in those respective episode threads.  So, I am absolutely thrilled that Twilight came to her senses on this.  Not only did she go, but she offered advice!    But....what changed?  I'll give you my headcanon: there was a map mission in between seasons that we didn't see, and Starswirl himself was present when the map summoned the pony/ponies, and Twilight said, "Oh, you're so lucky!  I wish I could go, but I'm not allowed!"

To which Starswirl furrowed his brow at her and said, "...What the f*ck'r ya talkin' about, Twilight; it never said that.  I made the damn map, and I say go, you moron."  And then Twilight went:

Spoiler

 

 

[Anonymous Old User Who Has Left 599]

Great episode that had all the stuff I wanted to happen ever since watching the movie. I love the concept of Terramar's dilemma. I'm 20 and want to be a responsible self-employed adult but I still love the fun and freedom that being a teen (and kid) had to offer. It's really struggling sometimes to have one foot on the sand of youthful joy and one fin in the waters of learning and practicing front-to-back web/app development. Sooner or later I'm going to have to come clean about how I truly feel about life and where I belong. 

Also, more power to my writing! Can't wait to write some stuff with the Hippogriff kingdom and its inhabitants!

Edited April 24, 2018 by Shabb3r

[KatonRyu 1,026]

I liked the episode, but despite that I've got a few issues with it. First, I didn't see the problem from the beginning. I've spent years living in two houses because my parents were divorced so I didn't really see the point in him feeling he had to choose, especially since neither parent attempted to pressure him into choosing. Second, I really, really, hate the show's aversion to just saying 'anyone' and 'everyone' instead of species-specific variations on it. I've always hated the pony variations and I hoped that, with the bigger diversity of species now in the show, they'd drop it altogether, but sadly that doesn't seem to be the case. It doesn't even make any sense since they've said 'everyone' on several occasions, IIRC even in School Daze as a correction on 'everypony'. Aside from that, Twilight was really the one solving the problem, not the CMC. Despite all  that, though, I enjoyed the episode.

[Nyactis Mewcis Catlum 670]

I'm beginning to see a recurring thing of people saying the split wasn't well-defined, and that it was too amicable. My question posed: why do you want that conflict elaborated on when it's not the focus of the episode? The episode has a very specific amount of runtime, and if I have to give "Surf and/or Turf" any negative feedback, it's that it's already bogged down with some exposition at the beginning that's clearly there for people who hadn't watched the movie. For them to delve into the nature of the split would require more exposition and detract away from the focus. Terramar's parents aren't what the episode about. Terramar is what the episode is about. They factor into the problem he has, but it's not important to understand why they're split, or how. What's important is that they're split and that Terramar thus feels divided between the two.

The episode is very clear about what Terramar's conflict is (he even specifically mentions he fears he'll be letting someone down), and Twilight even provides the reason why he's having it: he's making the issue too complicated in his head. The idea that no one relates to this puzzles me. Have you never overthought anything and made something harder on yourself? The problem is not that Terramar has to choose, that is not the problem that Terramar is having. The problem is that he feels that he has to. DQ pointed out that someone mentioned that his parents were subtly pressuring him. Celestia made absolutely no indication at any point that she would ever send Twilight back to Magic Kindergarten in "Lesson Zero", yet she had those fears anyway, and the episode is never criticized for that (and there's a subtle brilliance, then, in Twilight being the one to suggest that he might be exaggerating the issue in his head, because she has personal experience with it! whodathunk it); and again, we repeatedly see examples of that pressure that the parents induce throughout the episode. Every line in an episode is written for a reason, and if it is not and doesn't appear to have a point it's usually done away with. There's a point behind Terramar's dad saying he hasn't seen him in days, and there's a reason Terramar's mother asks if he'll stay around to eat.

The episode is not saying he has to choose. The episode is saying he doesn't have to. That's the message behind it. He's making a mountain out of a molehill.

On 4/22/2018 at 9:15 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

You're just repeating yourself and not engaging with my point. I'm not bothered that they're celebratory, I'm bothered that they're too nice, and therefore boring. 

You only see a small glimpse of them in the episode because they're not the focus of the episode. Why do you think they're too nice because they're positively engaging who is essentially a celebrity? Of course they are. Twilight is a celebrity tourist, so they make sure to show her the best sides of them.

I guess we're just confused as to what you want from them in this episode. Would you have liked the parents to have been mean to Terramar or each other? That would not only have diluted the point, I think, but have even changed the entire message of the episode. And the other hippogriffs? What would it have added to this episode in particular if they were a society of some meanness, when it seems your main complaint in the episode appears to be too much focus on world-building as it is?

 

As for the CMC being necessary there vs. not, and Twilight solving the problem, I will give some credit to this complaint that it definitely seems like it's Twilight's words that contribute the most toward the solution. But I do think, even if Twilight hadn't gone, that the CMC would have come to the solution on their own. If Twilight hadn't thought of it first, Apple Bloom probably would have, as she was the middle ground of the whole issue. I haven't thought enough about this point.

 

The suggestion that there should have been more conflict is strange when it's directed at this particular show. Of course the views expressed are optimistic, that's kind of the show's focus. I'm seeing this expectancy for more pessimism from a show that's built around optimism. It's not the first time I've seen this directed toward the show. Would it be nice if there were more family unfriendly or more complicated aesops on television? Certainly, but I don't come to MLP: FiM for that. It has never been that show.

[Dark Qiviut 22,160]

20 minutes ago, Nyactis Mewcis Catlum said:

You only see a small glimpse of them in the episode because they're not the focus of the episode. Why do you think they're too nice because they're positively engaging who is essentially a celebrity? Of course they are. Twilight is a celebrity tourist, so they make sure to show her the best sides of them.

There's more to that. Until at least a month or two go, they weren't celebrating their culture at all, because they were hiding from the Storm King. Now with him gone, they regained their freedom and cultural identity. It's no surprise they revived it and intend to spend as much time as possible celebrating. Heaven forbid someone as bad as the Storm King could invade Aris again.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Thrond 3,257]

6 hours ago, Nyactis Mewcis Catlum said:

You only see a small glimpse of them in the episode because they're not the focus of the episode. Why do you think they're too nice because they're positively engaging who is essentially a celebrity? Of course they are. Twilight is a celebrity tourist, so they make sure to show her the best sides of them.

It's a tonal thing. It's not just that they positively engage with everyone, it's also that apparently nobody here has any sort of problems except Terramar, whose only problem is that he's overthinking stuff. I'll totally concede that it's a matter of taste, though.

6 hours ago, Nyactis Mewcis Catlum said:

I guess we're just confused as to what you want from them in this episode. Would you have liked the parents to have been mean to Terramar or each other? That would not only have diluted the point, I think, but have even changed the entire message of the episode. And the other hippogriffs? What would it have added to this episode in particular if they were a society of some meanness, when it seems your main complaint in the episode appears to be too much focus on world-building as it is?

I feel focusing more on a human aspect than the world-building would have already helped by giving some depth and dimension to hippogriffs beyond just being vaguely utopian. I also would have preferred if the episode didn't go through so many motions of the CMC not finding anyone with any sort of problem, but I suppose what I mostly just want more personal detail. 

Admittedly, I've actively tried to block the movie from memory, and I'm probably biased due to finding Silver Stream's chipper attitude annoying.  

6 hours ago, Nyactis Mewcis Catlum said:

The episode is very clear about what Terramar's conflict is (he even specifically mentions he fears he'll be letting someone down), and Twilight even provides the reason why he's having it: he's making the issue too complicated in his head. The idea that no one relates to this puzzles me. Have you never overthought anything and made something harder on yourself? The problem is not that Terramar has to choose, that is not the problem that Terramar is having. The problem is that he feels that he has to. DQ pointed out that someone mentioned that his parents were subtly pressuring him.

I could relate to the specifics of Twilight's anxiety, though, whereas I'm sure there's higher stakes to what Terramar's worrying about, but the episode focuses so much on the world-building that the idea of Terramar also needing to choose between parents barely registers to me. I can't really relate to having two awesome places to live and not knowing which one to live in. There's a lack of detail in the human side of the story. 

6 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

There's more to that. Until at least a month or two go, they weren't celebrating their culture at all, because they were hiding from the Storm King. Now with him gone, they regained their freedom and cultural identity. It's no surprise they revived it and intend to spend as much time as possible celebrating. Heaven forbid someone as bad as the Storm King could invade Aris again.

This is a non sequitur. We all know that cultural celebrations aren't inherently conflict-free. 

[GiFTGewEhrSCHutzen-4 8,827]

It's a nice episode, also shows us culture and lifestyle of the Hippogriffs/Seaponies as well. And for Scootaloo's case, if flying won't do for her, well, there's an alternative for her which is underwater, as seen in this episode, since it's kinda similar to flying and all.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

Alright, so having finally been able to watch this a few more times, I think this is one of the best episodes of the season. It also has that amazing song that I’m not seeing enough praise for, best CMC song since CoTLM. Probably one of the best in the show.

But I still can’t get over the solution and CMC’s involvement, or rather how that involvement was utilized. Why were the CMC called? The episode doesn’t tell us, and unlike some other unanswered questions that have occurred in the show, this isn’t one that doesn’t matter, the reasoning they are called is the foundation of a map episode. Applebloom even points this out in the episode, that it’s a “problem only we can solve.” A Royal Problem? The episode tells us at the end, Luna says it’s because only Starlight would be bold enough to take that chance. Triple Threat? The episode tells us he was called because he was the one causing the friendship problem, that he needed to trust his friends so they could learn from each other. Shadow Play? The episode doesn’t directly address the why, but everyone called by the map still contributed to the solution.

And that’s where my problem comes from, the problem was solved by Twilight, not the CMC’s. Why wasn’t Applebloom the one to meme out the “why not both” solution? She already was a neutral voice who could see the appeal of both worlds. It isn’t much of a stretch to go from there to the solution, but instead Twilight has to be the one to point it out. It’s just a terrible utilization of the characters. Ultimately, I don’t think this ruins the episode, but it does detract from the ending.

[Brainstorm 4,092]

I would like to see Terramar at the Friendship School, for like a visit and maybe have a race between him and Silverstream. Like who can fly or swim the fastest.

Just a thought.

[Rhythm Red 6,484]

(These reviews are copied and pasted from my blog, which you should totally check out. )

 

Welcome back, fillies and gentlecolts, to another RHYTHM RED’S RADTASTICAL REVIEWS!!!  (...it’s about time!)

Today, we’re talking about Surf and/or Turf! Even though it’s been out for a little while. I’m lazy.  

I believe this is the first leaked episode (correct me if I’m wrong), though I haven’t watched the leaked episodes myself. Why would I want to spoil the surprise?  

With all of that out of the way, here we go!  

 

First off, we get something pretty unique: the CMC’s are being called by the map! This is good, I’m all for the CMC’s solving a friendship problem instead of a cutie mark one for once. You can only have so many “CMC’s help ponies find their cutie marks” episodes before it gets a little repetitive, so this is a great idea, in my opinion!  Plus they get to go to Mount Aris!  

One train ride and a few funny comments later, and we get to Mount Aris, home of the hippogriffs! Oh, and I think we all know Twilight just wants a vacation. (“Research”. You silly pony. )

Next, we meet Terramar, a young hippogriff who can’t decide if he wants to live on Mount Aris or in Seaquestria. Both have their positives and negatives, and hippogriffs on both sides are trying to make him choose. This is a FANTASTIC episode idea. I’ll get to why that is in just a moment. 

A short while later, Terramar and the CMC’s go to Harmonizing Heights. Sweetie Belle falls in love with the place, of course, and wants Terramar to stay on Mount Aris. Then, they go to Seaquestria, and Scootaloo tries to persuade Terramar to stay there instead. (I also liked watching her ‘fly’ underwater!) Apple Bloom doesn’t pick a side.

Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo get into an argument over where Terramar should stay, and he runs off, angry that the ponies who were supposed to help him only made things worse. 

The CMC’s then surprise him with a big beach party- one that both those living on land and those living in the water can enjoy! Terramar’s parents apologize for pressuring him, and he decides to enjoy both worlds, rather than limit himself to one. 

YOU GET THE BEEEEEST OF BOTH WOOOORLDS!!!

...excuse me.  

Back to why this episode idea is such a good one: It resembles divorce. Obviously Terramar’s parents aren’t divorced, but them choosing to live in different places (and having strong opinions about it) are like a disagreement, and Terramar going back and forth between houses is like a kid going to visit both of his parents. Just like in a real divorce, this takes a toll on Terramar. The fact that this is shown in the episode is pretty neat, in my opinion. It references divorce in a very subtle way, but it’s still there. 

Okay, so a pretty good episode overall. But what about the downsides?

First off, the solution was kinda obvious. I knew how it would end from the very moment the conflict was introduced.

Secondly, depending on how you look at things, the theme could either be divorce or making difficult decisions. If it’s divorce, the ending was perfect, because a child should get to spend time with both his parents. If the main theme is decision-making, however, there’s one teeny-tiny issue: You don’t always get to choose both options. Sometimes you only get to pick one.

Anyway, I enjoyed it! I think I’m gonna give the episode a 7/10! It was a pretty solid episode overall, but I still think Grannies Gone Wild is the best episode of season 8 so far. Will that change soon? Maybe.  

Thanks for reading, and I’ll catch you all in a couple days for another RHYTHM RED’S RADTASTICAL REVIEWS!!! 

[Truffles 2,033]

On 4/22/2018 at 9:15 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

The CMC protest that Twilight doesn't need to come with them, because they can take care of this mission just fine on their own. But how old/mature are they supposed to be at this point? Are they old enough or mature enough to handle traveling beyond Equestria, finding (and possibly buying) things to eat and a place to stay, and finding and solving the friendship problem all by themselves? I thought of them as being the equivalent of middle-schoolers, and I wouldn't be so sure that middle-schoolers would be able to handle that.

I don't think they are old enough, either, which is why Twilight went along. As for why they protested, that sounds like something they'd do, especially when it's something as important as a map mission. Goodness knows they've gone off to do some crazy stuff (some of which could have easily gotten them killed if another character hadn't stepped in to stop them) in pursuit of their cutie marks in the past. So their complaints don't sound all that unreasonable to me.

On 4/22/2018 at 9:15 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

t's a little strange to me that Twilight is undertaking the task of finding Silverstream's parents and getting them to sign her permission slip. Isn't that usually the student's job, rather than the teacher's or school administrator's job?

Since Twilight's school operates like a one-way exchange student program, it seems like it would be easier for Twilight to just get the signature herself rather than sending Silver Stream all the way out of Equestria by herself to do it. Plus I'm sure Twilight wouldn't want her to miss any of her studies. I'm surprised she simply didn't mail it, however, since the mail seems to be delivered everywhere. (Like Discord's realm for example, lol)

On 4/22/2018 at 9:15 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Was that land bridge to Mt. Aris (over which the train travels) there previously? Or did that have to be artificially constructed in order to run the rail line over there? And if so, who paid for that? Is the train public transportation or private?

They must have built that land bridge/actual bridge because it wasn't there in the movie and would have precluded Twilight & co. from needing an airship to get there. I wonder if she could ask Ember a favor and order Torch to build the land bridge for some gems? (Presumably since he's no longer Dragon Lord he succumbs to the power of the sceptre like any other dragon.)

Of course, that's not without it's own ethical problems of essentially making him into forced labor. He'd make the most sense, though, of all the known sapient creatures to handle such a massive project as building a land bridge across a body of water in a quick amount of time.

 

On 4/24/2018 at 1:40 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Okay, so I just hate being reminded about the movie, but once the Dramamine kicked in, it was a pretty good episode.

This was the episode I was warning you about that dealt pretty specifically with the movie. Glad to see you liked it anyway! Now I'm just as much in the dark as you regarding other "movie-related" episodes - I don't know of any others that are upcoming since I've only glanced at the leaked episode list. You might be in the clear now for the rest of the season for all I know!

On 4/24/2018 at 1:40 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Why didn't Twilight just teleport them there?  We know she can do that.  We've seen many times that she can teleport others, and that it takes extremely little effort for her to go pretty long distances.  Why do they bother taking the Exposition Train?  ....ohhhh.  Riiiiiight.  Think I just answered my own question.

Yeah, I think you did. I agree with you she could have teleported everyone there and avoided the whole train trip. Maybe if she had gone alone to handle the permission slip that's what she would have done?

On 4/24/2018 at 1:40 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Not only did she go, but she offered advice!    But....what changed?  I'll give you my headcanon: there was a map mission in between seasons that we didn't see, and Starswirl himself was present when the map summoned the pony/ponies, and Twilight said, "Oh, you're so lucky!  I wish I could go, but I'm not allowed!"

Yeahhh.... I think we know for sure now the map summons have always been the minimum party required. I don't think it ever really mattered whether extra characters came along. I'd like to think we'll see more ensemble character map episodes, but probably not since it's easier to write episodes with fewer characters present and the map episodes seem to be the vehicle for that.

[Music Chart Fan 818]

54 minutes ago, Truffles said:

I don't think they are old enough, either, which is why Twilight went along. As for why they protested, that sounds like something they'd do, especially when it's something as important as a map mission. Goodness knows they've gone off to do some crazy stuff (some of which could have easily gotten them killed if another character hadn't stepped in to stop them) in pursuit of their cutie marks in the past. So their complaints don't sound all that unreasonable to me.

That part of the episode made me think of the three trips I've made for conferences in grad school. Those were the only times I've ever flown on airplanes in my life, and were some of the very few times that I've ever stayed in a hotel, had to find transportation to and from the airport, had to find places to eat downtown without a car, etc. (That's sort of what happens when I come from a family of nine kids. All of our vacations were camping trips within a one-day drive of our house, and we kids were never traveling long distances without adults, other than driving 45 minutes or so to school and back.) Some of those times I was traveling with labmates who knew the ropes of what to do at the airport, for example, but I didn't feel confident doing those things even when I was in my 20s. So I wouldn't imagine that, when I was 12-14 years old, I would be confidently asserting that I could travel across the country and do the things I mentioned above without any help.

I'm probably more wary than average of doing things with which I'm unfamiliar, though, and I guess it's a trope for teens/pre-teens to try to assert themselves and want to do things without help.