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Your opinion on beta males?


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The only reason they would is for their own reasons on their own initiative. It isn't ignorant to strive for a goal, but changing your personality based on someone else's opinion is.

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It's hard to put across any kind of informed argument for such an ill-defined term, especially when that term is almost exclusively used in a pejorative sense.  I am well past the age at which most people stop watching cartoons and yet I still love animation of all sorts, I would sooner watch MLP than watch a football match.  Does this make me a beta male?  Some would probably say yes.  I personally do not consider how I choose to entertain myself in my own time to be the governing factor in how I should be defined as a man.  I could choose any of the plethora of other aspects of my life that would paint an entirely different picture of me to anyone that doesn't know me.  In short, in a relatively anonymous environment such as the internet we can present ourselves in such a way that we will be perceived by another in a manner of our own choosing.

Of course none of that actually answers your question, nor was it meant to, it simply addresses the difficulty in ascertaining who is and who isn't a beta male.  I could make the assumption that you are referring to the stereotypical soy latte swilling hipster that prostrates himself before the altar of feminism and immediately, with no regard for his own best interests, subordinates himself before any woman, minority or other interest group that wags a finger at him on the rare occasions in which he has the temerity to speak.  I'm sure there are such people but on the whole this is of course a caricature and in no way representative of any significant group, and generally the only place outside of a university campus you will encounter people like this is online.  If that is indeed the sort of man to which you were referring then my attitude towards them would be a mixture of contempt and pity.

On the whole though, people are entitled to conduct themselves in whatever manner they deem to be appropriate, within certain reasonable limits of behaviour.  This also applies to the hypothetical example I mentioned above, but ultimately, as long as the person in question isn't trying to tell me that I am living my life wrong, or disrupting me going about my business then I mostly have no real problem with them.  After all, if we were all the same the world would be a very boring place indeed.

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Be what you want to be, there is no alpha or beta, 2 words cannot describe something as complicated as a human being. Be what is true to you, don't wear a mask for someone else. There is only 1 you in the world, be the best 'you' you can be.

Edited by Califorum
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i think you need to kind of understand the origins behind Alpha and Beta males it's actually a psychological evaluation term for Military psychologists particularly during Enlistment because some roles literally require you to be an "Alpha male" that being said an Alpha cannot be a Beta and vise versa 

without giving a long winded lecture it just means leadership potential in pop culture its come to mean something completely different but there's actually very few true "Alpha Males" in the world just cause you're a dude brah that lifts all day and fucks all night does not make you "Alpha"  

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Do i count as a Beta? I mean, i have no muscles and have no girlfriend, so i guess im a beta, im not sure what that exactly means.

What do i even have to do to become an alpha? Doing sport is a little bit problematic with my current pain problems and getting a girlfriend is a problem because of my lack of social skills, i dont think i can do much. What do i think of Beta Males? Well, i hate myself, does that mean i hate beta males? XD I dont know. I have nothing against Beta Males and as long as they are happy, why should they change something? I mean, im not happy but i cant really change much at the moment without help and currently im not getting much help.

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1 hour ago, Dune_Gosbil said:

Do i count as a Beta? I mean, i have no muscles and have no girlfriend, so i guess im a beta, im not sure what that exactly means.

Nobody really knows what it means, it's a rather nebulous concept and everyone's understanding of it is going to be different.  This is mostly because, as I mentioned before, it is almost exclusively used as a pejorative, I don't think there are many (if any) men that would willingly refer to themselves as being a beta male, it is generally something that you call someone else.

Not having the body of a Greek god and not having a girlfriend would not make you a beta male in most people's eyes, it is more about attitude.  Someone could be built like a brick outhouse and have a girlfriend, and still be viewed as a beta male by someone else if they come across as being unconditionally subservient and/or a literal or metaphorical 'cuck'.

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So, like some others, this is a strange concept to me. I hear of it fairly often, but this is a good occasion to learn something.

What exactly are the definitions for each and how do they differ?  I expect to hear mentions of 'alpha' and 'beta'  in regards to apes and certain wild animals. But humans aren't wild animals (though we may behave like it sometimes) and so I don't see the function or need of using these terms. I'd like an explanation from anyone who actually uses these words

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On 3/4/2018 at 2:43 PM, Trotteur Sauvage said:

What the phoque is alpha and beta male ??

Don't worry about it. It isn't even a real thing. 

6 minutes ago, Olly said:

So, like some others, this is a strange concept to me. I hear of it fairly often, but this is a good occasion to learn something.

What exactly are the definitions for each and how do they differ?  I expect to hear mentions of 'alpha' and 'beta'  in regards to apes and certain wild animals. But humans aren't wild animals (though we may behave like it sometimes) and so I don't see the function or need of using these terms. I'd like an explanation from anyone who actually uses these words

It's an inaccurate term when applied to wild animals as many species are not strong male dominated. Wolves, Lions, etc have been popularized as fitting the incorrect description of dominant males that control all primary aspects of the group dynamic. 

As far as humans, the truth, as usual, resists simplicity. 

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11 minutes ago, Jeric said:

 Wolves, Lions, etc have been popularized as fitting the incorrect description of dominant males that control all primary aspects of the group dynamic. 

Well I do know that thanks to adam ruins everything 

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Loosely understood, an alpha male is a dominate personality and uses dominance over others as a focus of his actions. Beta males tend to be kind, gentle and understanding as a focus of their actions. Alpha males command, beta males get along. There are no solid lines, people's individuality tend to smear or gray out the categories into a spectrum of behavior.

Back to the Future is a decent pop culture example of a beta/alpha struggle.

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2 hours ago, Mirage said:

Loosely understood, an alpha male is a dominate personality and uses dominance over others as a focus of his actions. Beta males tend to be kind, gentle and understanding as a focus of their actions. Alpha males command, beta males get along. There are no solid lines, people's individuality tend to smear or gray out the categories into a spectrum of behavior.

Back to the Future is a decent pop culture example of a beta/alpha struggle.

Do we need these terms? 

Humans aren't herded like sheep. At least not yet. So let's focus our actions while being understanding. 

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2 minutes ago, Olly said:

Do we need these terms? 

Humans aren't herded like sheep. At least not yet. So let's focus our actions while being understanding. 

That's up to you. I wasn't encasing the discussion to those limits, I was merely expressing the generally accepted perceptions of those terms.

However, biologically speaking, our dominance tenancies are very, very old. We can't just throw them out of humanity. These 'terms' are not always obvious, but we all know the behavior. We see it everyday. Your reply was case in point - you felt the need to correct me for reason, presumably to minimize my influence on the discusses, and it was rather aggressive too. There are many ways to interpret texted words, and I'm afraid you interpretation of my intent was way off.

 

3 hours ago, Olly said:

I'd like an explanation from anyone who actually uses these words

Was I wrong in taking you up on your own suggestion to discuss? In any case, I don't use these terms, as if to insist they must be, however, they are used in common discourse, and that's all I'm doing.

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8 minutes ago, Mirage said:

That's up to you. I wasn't encasing the discussion to those limits, I was merely expressing the generally accepted perceptions of those terms.

However, biologically speaking, our dominance tenancies are very, very old. We can't just throw them out of humanity. These 'terms' are not always obvious, but we all know the behavior. We see it everyday. Your reply was case in point - you felt the need to correct me for reason, presumably to minimize my influence on the discusses, and it was rather aggressive too. There are many ways to interpret texted words, and I'm afraid you interpretation of my intent was way off.

 

Was I wrong in taking you up on your own suggestion to discuss? In any case, I don't use these terms, as if to insist they must be, however, they are used in common discourse, and that's all I'm doing.

 

well I wouldn't have wanted my comment to be interpreted as 'aggressive'. I'm not "correcting" you, there's nothing to correct. I wonder, do people use these labels in everyday conversation? And what purpose they serve if any

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2 minutes ago, Olly said:

 

well I wouldn't have wanted my comment to be interpreted as 'aggressive'. I'm not "correcting" you, there's nothing to correct. I wonder, do people use these labels in everyday conversation? And what purpose they serve if any

Oh I see, so you were 'moralizing'. Anyway, I apologize for characterizing your intent.

We're using the terms now. Whether they serve a purpose depends on your intent.

Calling someone a 'beta male' is derogatory. It's basically calling someone a wussy. So we can refrain from using these labels or terms, but that does absolve any man of actually being a coward, and I'm afraid cowards can be found everywhere. Calling someone an 'alpha' implies they are in charge and generally fierce. Are there not people who step in and take charge? Are their not fierce and rather frightening men? They are 'alphas'. They are 'on top'.

Describing what we see I though was a rather basic function of intellect.

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2 minutes ago, Mirage said:

Calling someone a 'beta male' is derogatory. It's basically calling someone a wussy.

I suspected this. So there's no value in these terms, they're buzz words 

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1 minute ago, Olly said:

I suspected this. So there's no value in these terms, they're buzz words 

They can also be accurate. I have done totally wussy things before. In fact, I could have saved myself from a lot of trouble growing up if I had a father to tell me when I was being a coward. He could have said 'you're being beta about this' and it would have been a loving thing to say.

Heroism and virtue can't be attributed to all behaviors.

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Beta males, or just normal people that aren't conforming to some very specific stereotypes, can strive to be the kind of people they want to be.
However if someone's unironically calling themselves an 'alpha male', I wouldn't trust the person. :D

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  • 3 weeks later...

There's no such thing. People are people, whether shy or assertive, and we should all treat them as kind as we would the next person. I'm not going to judge you on if you're a Fluttershy or a Rainbow Dash. I would like people to treat me the same way. It's basically a golden rule in my book; treat others the way you would want to be treated. Not to sound like a Mom or anything, but I just don't really find the appeal in name-calling. It sounds so mean.

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