blackstarraven

Eqestrian Sun/moon/planet movement?

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Note: So...  I AM A SCIENSTIST.....

No really. I got a university degree in "General Science"

Then a Masters in Geography. Then a PhD in Geology. So I'm literally a student of science in general with a focus in Earth Science. And like most people with a heavy focus in a academic area, I have some times get a little OCD when it comes to watching something and trying to apply "My rules" to it.

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So this came up when I was watching a few episodes of MLP:FIM. I had a Epiphany....

The sun in My little pony CANT behave like our own star Sol.... So let's asses a few things.

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#1: Yes, It is totally possible that none of the following numbered points are true, it is possible that this is a VERY Abstract world. But then the world would not really operate in other ways that we see it does.

#2: The natural laws of Eqestria are at least formally similar if not close to our own. That is to say... Gravity is caused by mass, motion causes inertia so on and so on.

#3: It IS possible that the sun is much smaller then our sun and that Eqestria is much closer.

 But the sun does shed light that grows plants. And it does give of heat. So it is most likely a star.

 It also would need to be very close if its not stationary for the scaling to work, close enough that it would most likely wonk up the planet/moon/sun orbital model.

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So because of this I came to the conclusion that the following is the best explanation for the way that Cosmology works in FIM.

#1: The sun is in fact stationary in FIM.

#2: Eqestria itself is naturally tidal locked. (With one side facing the sun and another way all the time)

#3: The moon is more or less a normal moon.

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With all this in place that would mean that Luna does in point move the moon.

And that Celestia actually uses her power to rotate the planet, not move the sun. This is actually pretty accurate with what we know in the show also. Because she is never stated to move the sun, she's stated to 'raise the sun' and sun rise in our own world is simply earth rotating....

-At one point Unicorns in general raised the sun with there magic.

 

So Celestia moves the planet so that more then just a thin strip of the surface area is habitable.

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Now the biggest issue with this is that if you just rotate the planet all of the sudden it would throw everything in one direction, but we do see if the show a few times that the sun does not just go up and stay there until its moved back down. Lesson Zero (Not the best example) does show that the sun moves in a arc over the surface of the world.

We also see sun dials from time to time, something that would not work if the sun did not move in a arc.

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So next point to be made.

-The rotation of the planet done by Celestia is pretty gentle. Its actually more possible that she simple uses her magic a little bit every day to KEEP the planet rotating at a constant or close to constant rate. And that without doing so it would eventually become tidal locked again.

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A quick side note.

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Looking at the art map of the show... I really have to wonder how BIG the land known as Eqestria is. Not mind you the planet. (Which is unnamed) I know a good number of fans want to call it Equis. But I don't like that.. It's basically pooping on all non-equine creatures in the show.

The map is clearly not to scale.

-If it is mind you, Ponyville is larger then Canterlot, is the same size as the entire every free forest. And it should take as long to get to appaloosa is walking across ponyville three times.

So all that in mind, we can figure out roughly now far apart some things are in the show based on how long it takes to get to / from some places by train.

The train is clearly a steam engine, so 45-65mph is about as fast as it will be doing. I would say on the lower end.

It takes less then a day (Maybe a hour or so) To get to ghastly gouge.

It takes a overnight trip to get to appalousa.

You can take a to Mainhattan and back again in one day...

 

This all seams kind of... Inconsistent.. And it clearly is.

 

But you know what else takes about the same amount of time to get around?
The UK or France....

If I had to guess Eqestria is about the size and dimensions of France...

It would also be totally possible to have the different areas that are on the map in a area that size accounting for elevation.

  • Brohoof 1

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My headcanon is that the planet is being orbited by two similarly sized orbs functioning as the sun and the moon.

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Amy Keating Rogers confirmed a long time ago that the Sun is the same size as our own and the plane it the same dostance, celestia moves the Sun around the world.

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I believe it is the same as believed in the middle ages. That seem to work.

Poor Celestia, only one day overslept and many ponies will be to late on work. :3

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I believe they don't actually move them. If they do actually move, they are 2 small orbs that go around equestria. A geocentric system. 

I believe they just warp the light and heat effects of either, making it appear they are moving but in all actuality they are not.

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Grammar viloations. then vs than, there vs their

In the Movie the Storm King uses the staff to move the sun and moon very quickly (presumably he was rotating the planet). That would have caused all kinds of earth quakes and such. Ignoring that, it seems clear that magic can move the planet.

I believed that Celestia doesn't really raise the sun. She just claims she can and ponies believe her. Besides the Movie I think there are other examples of the sun being controlled but I can't think of them off hoof. Regardless, the data from the Movie is enough to seriously damage my theory.

I would say you are correct in that magic is used to rotate the planet. I don't think Celestia has to consciously start and stop the planet every day. It would make more sense to just let it rotate.

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My guess is the solar system in the show is geocentric due to the suns size not being able to hold the planets in orbit with its gravity. This could explain why ponies developed telekinesis to move the sun and moon as well as the ability to control the weather. It was a response to make the world more live able 

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Good answers for the most part...

Except for the one about Amy Keating Rogers... Honestly I don't really care what she has to say about it.

Also I don't care about my grammar that much, I'm not doing a academic paper. I have degree in science, not English. I know how to spell, I'm just dyslexic and I'm not pending 2 hours checking my forum posts.... No really that's how long it takes me some times....

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The storm king was actually something I was thinking about. But to be honest.. I'm not buying it. I'm saying that one is... less then cannon...

If he was slinging a full sized Sun around like that, it would have actually been worse then slinging a rotating the planet around... So I'm saying none of them are true.

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As to the point of the sun/moon being the same size.... And the ideal of them just being magical dots... no....

Because again, its clearly stated that the gun is required to grow crops...

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The model given by me is the least problematic one.. not perfect, all of them have issues.

I mean aside from the concept of them actually being totally detached from physical law. That is to say it is possible in universal that the sun really is some kind of disk thats not that big, not that far away and gives off the right energy / warmth for the world to grow food and what not. But that actually reinforces my point.

Its ether totally detached from the way physical law works. Or my model is the least problematic one...

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As to Amy Keating Rogers... Again I don't care what she had to say unless its in line with A: Faust. B: A consistent line from the entire production crew.

She's done some 17 episodes of the show.. most of them not that good by the shows standard. I like some of her other work, and I'm not saying anything bad about her personally. But she doesn't strike me as a great world builder in her work.

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Just for the fun of it I really liked the idea of Equestria being a toroid with the moon bouncing around in the middle. And all the data supports that theory.

 

Less crazier idea is that planet is just tidally locked to the Star.

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Yeah. The MLP movie is a good example of this. While Luna and Tia are stone, the day/night cycle continues.

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are we really gonna count the cash grab? i mean we ignore slice of life from the continuity along with equestria girls don't we?

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The pilot, part 2. Celestia is MIA, & the sun doesn't rise

Twilight's Kingdom, Twilight raises the sun

This shows very clearly that they are doing something, & NOT just claiming credit for a natural phenomenon.

There are a couple of other places that imply this, although not as clearly. For instance, in Princess Twilight ponies freak out because both the sun & the moon are in the sky together. Any kind of natural orbit & this would occur from time to time 

I haven't seen the movie & can't comment. on it.

IMO, EQ is fairly small (say about the size of England or France) and flat. The sun & the moon are very small & very close. The Princesses move them about. That is EQ is not only geocentric, it is pre Ptolemaic. I tend to the theory "Equestria isn't even in our universe, it is in another dimension"

 

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After looking around for a while I have to the conclusion that MLP's world is as fantastical as it gets.
For one both Day and Night can occur at the same time. Next the sun can be out during the night.
As for the sun's size, while I care not about what Amy says as she no longer works on the show, Celestia did confirm that moving the Sun with her magic is more difficult then moving the Moon with Luna's magic. Whether this implies that Sun is bigger or is simply different I do not know, but the idea that they are simply 2 balls in the sky seems to fit with the rest.

Another thing of note is that it seems that the Sun is unnecessary for life to thrive in Equestria as seen in the alternate timeline with Nightmare Moon on the throne.

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On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:34 PM, kaiser5578 said:

are we really gonna count the cash grab? i mean we ignore slice of life from the continuity along with equestria girls don't we?

Here's the thing though.  The movie is 100% cannon rather you like it or not.  Because unlike EG Season 8 references the movie several times and it's a direct reference.  Including locations, events, people, etc.   Unlike EG which has thus far only had 1 reference to EG which were the Siren's appearing in the flash back in the Season 7 finale... which even then you could simply ignore if you really wanted too.  (I'm not counting Flash Sentry's appearances as they could be as easily written off as someone saying "Rainbow Dash is in FIM and in EG so cannon confirmed!" or something along those lines).

Anyways, truth be told, that's the thing when it comes to the sun and moon.  Because, there is life outside of equistria so how would Celestia move the sun for them?  Not to mention as was mentioned, there's the issue of the 'sun moves across the sky'.  

Personally, I think it's just more a 'inconsistency' they just don't care enough to really explain.  As they could simply see it that Celestia moves the sun into a 'noon' position and leaves it there all day until it's time to lower it again.  Yet, to help show time of day in the story, they move the sun along as they see fit.

 

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The movie may be canon, but there is so much things we can complain about ...

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