flutterbard

Anyone else think Neighsay should have been fired?

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It's one thing to have racist views. It's another to spout them in front of those other races' leaders and nearly plunging Equestria into a total war against its allies. If the EEA is a government body, then Neighsay should have been fired or at least demoted. If nothing else, he should have been given a talking-to. If the EEA is an independent organization, I think Celestia should, at the very least, have sent them a warning, saying that if they were to cause another incident like the one in School Daze, legal action (such as fines or closure) would would be taken against them.

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Well since he's head of the EEA, it's gonna be really hard for him to get 'fired', but if the other agents don't like his style, perhaps they can think of something.

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Well would it be hard for two probably four goddesses to fire an official with a complex?

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No, because he was reiterating a realistic belief that I am sure a lot of other ponies share. How he went about it was pretty disgusting and shocking, but that is how some people are... they have a belief and opinion and they share it, for better or for worse. You want to change that belief.. show them they are wrong. You don't silence it by telling them to be quiet, removing them or sweeping it under the rug... that just implies their viewpoint has some validity and gives those who believe it more room to spout their false beliefs.

Now if he did not have a realistic belief and everyone was giving him a WTF look and he was just being racist due to outright bigotry then yeah, boot his plot right on the spot.

Of course this is a kids cartoon show, we are not going to dive to deep down this rabbit hole.

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I would think that his extreme measures and unilateral acting should bring resentment from the school board and a disciplinary inquiry be held. Furthermore, since it is state sponsored under a monarchy, I would think Celestia has some say in his continued employment.

I'm guessing that a future plotline will be his firing followed by his quest for revenge on Twilight after going rogue.

He'll probably get Maud's turd of a boyfriend to help him or somethibg.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/4/2018 at 11:16 AM, GrimGrimoire said:

No, because he was reiterating a realistic belief that I am sure a lot of other ponies share. How he went about it was pretty disgusting and shocking, but that is how some people are... they have a belief and opinion and they share it, for better or for worse. You want to change that belief.. show them they are wrong. You don't silence it by telling them to be quiet, removing them or sweeping it under the rug... that just implies their viewpoint has some validity and gives those who believe it more room to spout their false beliefs.

Now if he did not have a realistic belief and everyone was giving him a WTF look and he was just being racist due to outright bigotry then yeah, boot his plot right on the spot.

Of course this is a kids cartoon show, we are not going to dive to deep down this rabbit hole.

I get that Neighsay's entitled to his beliefs and that there is most likely a chunk of Equestria's population that would agree with him. However, he nearly started a war against all of Equestria's allies and THAT is why he should have been fired, demoted or at the very least reprimanded. I'm not saying he should be punished for his views, he should be punished for his actions which, though motivated by his views, put Equestria in a very dangerous position.

Edited by flutterbard
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Him getting fired for his biased prejudice is one thing. However, resigning in shame and disgrace upon being proven wrong about his belief would be a better option for him. He believes that Twilight's school could ruin Equestria by teaching friendship to the other races, who would then use those lessons to take advantage of the ponies and conquer them.

However, if in the season finale, Sandbar and his friends prove him wrong with helping save everyone from Lord Tirek and possibly Chrysalis, he'll realize he was wrong in his beliefs, apologize to Twilight, Celestia, and the guardians of the non-pony students, and resign out of guilt and remorse for his actions.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/4/2018 at 11:16 AM, GrimGrimoire said:

No, because he was reiterating a realistic belief that I am sure a lot of other ponies share. How he went about it was pretty disgusting and shocking, but that is how some people are... they have a belief and opinion and they share it, for better or for worse. You want to change that belief.. show them they are wrong. You don't silence it by telling them to be quiet, removing them or sweeping it under the rug... that just implies their viewpoint has some validity and gives those who believe it more room to spout their false beliefs.

Now if he did not have a realistic belief and everyone was giving him a WTF look and he was just being racist due to outright bigotry then yeah, boot his plot right on the spot.

Of course this is a kids cartoon show, we are not going to dive to deep down this rabbit hole.

The thing with Neighsay is that it's after the fact that the Equestrian Kingdom has been attacked several times in a short period. Some of these resulting in a complete loss, ponies suffered, and could only be fixed by a group of few. There has to be some disgruntled ponies that don't like this and lead to distrust with one of them being Neighsay. If the show provides some other reasons for Neighsay, I'm just going off the string of prior attacks on the kingdom being his reason.

Though the valid ire should be directed at the princesses and the guard failings but that distracts from the story plot of the season.

Edited by Singe

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Princess Celestia has zero control over what EEA does and I doubt that Neighsay represents an entire EEA council. 

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I feel like the EEA lost a lot of credibility when we that happened but Neighsay is an important member and probably can’t just be fired.

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Yes Neighsay should've been severely punished in reality, but it would take a unanimous vote by a council after an extensive hearing. Princess Celestia can banish ponies but can impose sanctions on the EEA itself since she rules all Equestria. Think of how the president can write executive orders. 

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Posted (edited)

A majority of ponies on screen have always been afraid of aggressive creatures. Neighsay and others just need to be shown that there is progress to show they can be friends. It doesn't help that he could easily destroy Twilight's work with just words, which shows that more work on her efforts is needed.

Changelings - The Equestrian Kingdom has been attacked twice and one them successfully resulted in the kingdom being infiltrated for a short time.

Griffons - Seen as greedy from Rainbow Dash's point of view in an episode and a number of them have been shown to be easily aggressive.

Dragons - Ponies have  been afraid of dragons for a long time and are easily aggressive.

Yaks - Easily aggressive and the prince declared war over being offended by accommodations.

Hippogriffs - The only thing going for them is that not much is known about them.

 

Edited by Singe

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Heck yeah he SHOULD be fired anyhow!

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He caused a great deal of harm and is an unpleasant person but I do not think he broke any laws or EEA’s comes so there is no reason for him to be fired. Celestia is not a tyrant who fires people at will. And the school really is a risky endeavor by Twilight which easily leads to diplomatic issues if things don’t run smoothly and there is unexpected issues like the students running away. So it’s not exactly Neighsay’s fault there was tensions between the creatures, expecially when he was not even aware they were attending.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, snowflame said:

He caused a great deal of harm and is an unpleasant person but I do not think he broke any laws or EEA’s comes so there is no reason for him to be fired. Celestia is not a tyrant who fires people at will. And the school really is a risky endeavor by Twilight which easily leads to diplomatic issues if things don’t run smoothly and there is unexpected issues like the students running away. So it’s not exactly Neighsay’s fault there was tensions between the creatures, expecially when he was not even aware they were attending.

From a professional accountability perspective. Neighsay was in the right to hold Twilight responsible after the incident. She as the head of the school was responsible for her students not to skip, cause a panic, or cause property destruction that nearly got some ponies crushed. Another strike against Twilight was her failure to correct and affirm to the EEA in the initial interview that the school was also going to host non-ponies. By applying to the EEA for accreditation she agreed to adhere to their terms and standards.

Otherwise his in the heat of the moment species outburst is the only strike against him.

Edited by Singe
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He deserves life in Tartarus.

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On 4/18/2018 at 9:43 AM, Singe said:

A majority of ponies on screen have always been afraid of aggressive creatures. Neighsay and others just need to be shown that there is progress to show they can be friends. It doesn't help that he could easily destroy Twilight's work with just words, which shows that more work on her efforts is needed.

Changelings - The Equestrian Kingdom has been attacked twice and one them successfully resulted in the kingdom being infiltrated for a short time.

Griffons - Seen as greedy from Rainbow Dash's point of view in an episode and a number of them have been shown to be easily aggressive.

Dragons - Ponies have  been afraid of dragons for a long time and are easily aggressive.

Yaks - Easily aggressive and the prince declared war over being offended by accommodations.

Hippogriffs - The only thing going for them is that not much is known about them.

I don't care what Neighsay says, if Twilight and Spike (a pony and a dragon) can be friends, I don't see other creatures can't. Sure not all will see it that way, but some will.

Like Thorax said, "We know not every pony will see things the way others do."

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On 4/26/2018 at 2:42 PM, Brainstorm said:

I don't care what Neighsay says, if Twilight and Spike (a pony and a dragon) can be friends, I don't see other creatures can't. Sure not all will see it that way, but some will.

Like Thorax said, "We know not every pony will see things the way others do."

Twilight raised a hatched Spike in a pony influential environment. There is more than showing they can be friends, it's also to prove the other creatures are not a threat to ponies. One thing Neighsay was very strong on was pony safety.

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Posted (edited)

I don't think Neighsay should have been fired. I think he should have been steamrolled. Anyone in a position of authority that is so narrow-minded as Neighsay should not have that authority to begin with. The mishaps at Twilight's school are the result of squashing everypony into the narrow confines of the EEA's narrow thinking, and as a result the students rebelled a bit. It wasn't Twilight's fault but Neighsay's. So he should, at the very least, be subjected to his own standards and shown the door. 

Edited by Dreambiscuit
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He shouldn't have been fired. He should have gotten the shit beat out of him. By the very "dangerous creatures" that he offended, and Celestia should have magically froze him in place so they could show him how "unpredictable" they could really be. That way, with him in critical condition at the hospital, he would be unable to carry out the rest of his duties. There would be no need to fire him then. The EEA would just terminate his membership due to prolonged inactivity.

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Nah. Just sing a song and shoot him with the friendship rainbow like every other villain. 

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On 4/19/2018 at 10:37 AM, Singe said:

From a professional accountability perspective. Neighsay was in the right to hold Twilight responsible after the incident. She as the head of the school was responsible for her students not to skip, cause a panic, or cause property destruction that nearly got some ponies crushed.

This.

My biggest beef with the season premiere was that, despite Neighsay being a racist, Twilight still wasn't able to answer some of the EEA's concerns about running off on adventures, teachers being unqualified, etc., and basically lied to Neighsay about the students running off to skip class. So when the School Six seriously endanger the lives of ponies in that crash at the end of the first part, can you really blame Neighsay for shutting down the school?

I usually like when the episode is willing to acknowledge both sides of the conflict, but this felt a little too strawman-y and one-sided, and unintentionally seemed to come off as "bureaucracies and government regulations are bad" when I feel it's a lot more nuanced than that.

So yeah, you can see I'm honestly not a big fan of this series premiere, contrary to popular opinion.

On 4/27/2018 at 10:46 PM, Dreambiscuit said:

The mishaps at Twilight's school are the result of squashing everypony into the narrow confines of the EEA's narrow thinking, and as a result the students rebelled a bit. It wasn't Twilight's fault but Neighsay's.

This I will agree with, with some qualification.

The point of the episode was basically that friendship can't be taught with books and traditional methods, etc. (which kinda begs the question...what is the point of the friendship school anyway if it's not really a school?) so I think the episode was right in saying that strict rules will only hinder a school like this. And in this sense it is "Neighsay's fault". However, I felt it could have been addressed a lot better in the episode by portraying Neighsay as someone who's maybe misguided in trying to apply the rules, rather than an outright villain. I think what Neighsay was doing was in the best interests of maintaining high standards for schools across Equestria (even though he was wrong in this instance), and the episode could have more respectfully shown him how he was wrong.

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Posted (edited)

Trade school teaching a vocation maybe?

I'm actually on the other side of the fence from most of the posters here. Sure Neighsay really put his hoof in it but what nearly caused a war was the dissapearance of their students. I actually don't feel Neighsay should face any real punishment because (1) he's the head of the pony teaching board not a diplomat and probably has received no training or even vetting to see how he relates to non-ponies, (2) as mentioned Equestria has been invaded multiple times by this stage from several of the races represented and the others are largely uknown's, (3) his main concern is not Dragons are smelly, greedy, pony eating monsters but are Ponies safe from dragons and that's an important difference especially as all the other races students just crashed into a parent's day event putting everyone at risk, yes there was a pony in the bunch but he was easily missed. Keep him away from Twilight's school and the other races yes but don't punish him because he said what probably a lot of ponies are thinking at this time. Just let him go on doing what is presumably a good job in guiding the official school curriculum (what we've seen of Cherilee's classes are frankly a lot better behaved and at a higher level than I remember from my own years in school) while Twilight handles forging better relations and then her students slowly spread the word amongst theirs friends that dragons/yaks/changelings/flying spagehetti mosnters really aren't that different from Ponies.

Edited by Senko
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On 4/4/2018 at 5:13 PM, PiratePony said:

I would think that his extreme measures and unilateral acting should bring resentment from the school board and a disciplinary inquiry be held. Furthermore, since it is state sponsored under a monarchy, I would think Celestia has some say in his continued employment.

I'm guessing that a future plotline will be his firing followed by his quest for revenge on Twilight after going rogue.

He'll probably get Maud's turd of a boyfriend to help him or somethibg.

Mud isn't a bad guy though. That was the whole point of Maud Couple's lesson, wasn't it?

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I don't think Equestria has many if any racism based laws. I doubt there's anything in the EEA rulebook that dictates that ONLY ponies can attend EEA accredited schools. Remember, Twilight speed read the entire book and said that she could follow all of their rules. She spends the whole first episode trying to follow them. If one of those rules was "Only ponies can attend," then I'm sure she would've at least mentioned it. Also, when Neighsay is listing his reasons for shutting the school down, he specifically only mentions stuff like unqualified teachers, students skipping, and putting ponies in danger. He only veers into racism when he implies that if Twilight had "higher" standards for who she accepted into her school, the whole situation could've been avoided. It's not listed as an actual infraction of any kind, but it seems like something of an unspoken rule. You CAN allow non-ponies into your school, but who in their right mind would?

Neigh hasn't technically broken any rules. He acted according to his job and shut down a school that objectively wasn't up to their code, then objected when they blatantly tried to ignore his authority. Twi's counter was equally valid. The EEA's rules physically wouldn't allow for the type of school she wanted to create, so she acted in her authority as the Princess of Friendship to create a special school. Neigh tries to voice an objection and is shot down, then he offers a warning and leaves. So long as he doesn't try to interfere in the school, or try to enforce his racism onto other schools if they want to accept other creatures, then I could see Celestia not wanting to upend a system she clearly has a lot of respect for.

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