S08:E09 - Non-Compete Clause

[Tacodidra 59,753]

I liked this episode, though it wasn't a standout episode by any means. But on its own, I found it an enjoyable one to watch.

This episode reminded me of the early episodes with its character conflicts – obviously "Fall Weather Friends" as that featured the same pair of characters but also "Look Before You Sleep" to some extent. I liked seeing the students again, and they all had a pretty nice role in this episode. Ocellus was already my favorite before, and I have to say this episode solidified that status! I especially liked her transformations, though it was great how all the students got to do something of note this time! The scene with Ocellus and Silverstream saving Yona was adorable. A few funny moments, such as Fluttershy's photos. I liked the ending too – the students thinking Applejack and Rainbow Dash had done everything on purpose (and learning by being shown what not to do) and that the conflict wasn't entirely solved. Rainbow and Applejack's attempts to convince Twilight they had learned their lesson were a little silly, and she was convinced surprisingly easily by them.

All in all, a solid episode, though it wasn't one of the strongest this season for me. I'd have liked some more standout moments, but for the things it did right, it deserves an 8.5/10.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Tacodidra

[Dark Qiviut 22,160]

5 hours ago, Truffles said:

FWF does have one stain on an otherwise impeccable set of credentials: The roping and bucking contests. Those events are still two of the most blatant examples of Spikeabuse to date. Why would the ponies ever think treating a kid like livestock was a good idea? 

Fortunately, the episode makes up for it by having Spike co-anchor the actual race with Pinkie. An inspired idea that has yet to be duplicated 7 seasons later.

What you said about the Spikabuse is true.

And to give the devil its due, Twilight was better handled here than in FWF, too. Bayer-Johnson wrote her in a more active secondary role and didn't use her to spout a mandatory friendship lesson to Celestia. Her calling out of her friends forced Dash and AJ to not argue like whiny children in front of the students (of course, they were still awful; just in other ways).

[Truffles 2,033]

15 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

What you said about the Spikabuse is true.

And to give the devil its due, Twilight was better handled here than in FWF, too. Bayer-Johnson wrote her in a more active secondary role and didn't use her to spout a mandatory friendship lesson to Celestia. Her calling out of her friends forced Dash and AJ to not argue like whiny children in front of the students (of course, they were still awful; just in other ways).

After I wrote my previous comment, I realized Spike and Yona's experiences with RD and AJ parallel one another. In the same way I feel like Yona was not truly in any danger during the canoeing event, Spike was not really in any danger during the initial contests in FWF. (Though this time out they at least gave Yona a life jacket, which is more than I can say they did for Spike - not that it helped her, of course.)

But was does bother me to no end in both instances is the fact that they FORCED Yona and Spike to participate in their respective events - events they had no desire to partake in. RD is really derelict and awful in the case of Yona - she essentially tells her to get in the boat and shut up, not giving her a chance to tell them she can't swim! The only thing that makes that scene not come off as totally unbearable is Ocellus calming her fears by whistling. At least Yona has good friends that have her back. I didn't see anyone who had Spike's back during the first half of FWF. =P

[Thrond 3,257]

1 hour ago, Dark Qiviut said:

And to give the devil its due, Twilight was better handled here than in FWF, too. Bayer-Johnson wrote her in a more active secondary role and didn't use her to spout a mandatory friendship lesson to Celestia. Her calling out of her friends forced Dash and AJ to not argue like whiny children in front of the students (of course, they were still awful; just in other ways).

I'm not sure I agree; Twilight's "slow and steady" approach in "Fall Weather Friends" was a bit funnier to me, and her moralizing was somewhat quirkier and less intrusive, so I didn't get the sense of her being the moral superior to her dumb friends like I do in episodes like this. I suppose it's a matter of taste. 

[ChB 18,532]

On 5/12/2018 at 12:14 PM, Truffles said:

Speaking of Pinkie, I am surprised she isn't up on that wall along with Fluttershy. You would think a zany teacher would be a shoo-in for TotM at least some of the time. On a similar note, I wonder what Rarity is doing wrong that has her completely off the board? I know Fluttershy is popular and all, but to tell you the truth, I personally like a teacher than has more to their personality than just being "kind", and Fluttershy doesn't seem like she'd be one to crack jokes or think outside the box to make the material interesting like some of the other ponies would.

Maybe because Fluttershy was the only teacher who doesn't give the students homework when they don't want it.  

On 5/12/2018 at 9:58 AM, Zantetsuken said:

And the episode took it a step further cause not only did it still give RD and AJ something that they DID NOT DESERVE but they spun it as. "Oh they were showing us WHAT NOT TO DO!" Nice cop out...

I took that as the students teasing the two.

[Sonic5421 423]

To be honest, I enjoyed the episode since we had the students in a major role since the premiere, but it was clear that one could consider this a sequel to Fall Weather Friends due to Applejack and Rainbow Dash wanting to vie for Teacher of the Month, thus ruining the field trip for the students. However, it was nice to see the students work together whenever something went wrong, such as Ocellus and Silverstream saving Yona from drowning, or the teamwork they did to save Rainbow and A.J. from becoming fish food.

Also, once Twilight saw that Rainbow and A.J. had been being competitive with each other, she did threaten to take them off the field trip and take command herself because of their rivalry before they convinced her for another chance, even if they still tried to one-up the other after that.

All in all, I liked the episode, so I'll give it a 9/10.

[heavens-champion 1,893]

Does anyone know where I can watch this? I tried Dailymotion, but all I get is the leaked version

[Dark Qiviut 22,160]

2 minutes ago, heavens-champion said:

Does anyone know where I can watch this? I tried Dailymotion, but all I get is the leaked version

This SendVid link (also in the OP) goes directly to the aired version of the episode.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[RDDash 18,837]

 

1 hour ago, heavens-champion said:

Does anyone know where I can watch this? I tried Dailymotion, but all I get is the leaked version

You can always buy an episode on YouTube, dollar something I think.

 

[Foreign Candy 20]

So after much consideration, I have come to the conclusion that this is my 4th worst episode of the show. Yeah I thought it was that bad.

1. Rainbow Falls

2. Boast Busters

3. Princess Spike

4. Non-Compete Clause

5. Baby Cakes

[Truffles 2,033]

On 5/13/2018 at 4:20 PM, ChB said:

Maybe because Fluttershy was the only teacher who doesn't give the students homework when they don't want it. 

You know what? That's actually not a bad theory. I can see her students acting all depressed over getting homework and her relenting just as the class ends. They could even make an episode about it, though it would seem a little like her regressing again.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Truffles
Grammar oopsie

[Luminance 2,181]

There are some good things about this episode...

Twilight was really serious about the field trip and her caring about the student's well-being despite RD and AJ actions makes her reassure her position and authority.

The students are getting along well. For example when Yona was drowning, Ocellus and Silverstream saved her.

Fluttershy is always welcomed. Her appearance in this instance is adorable. Way to go teacher of the month. 

[RDDash 18,837]

5 hours ago, ChB said:

Maybe because Fluttershy was the only teacher who doesn't give the students homework when they don't want it.  

Every time i see professors issuing homework, I was like are you absolutely sure you want to give everyone this much homework, you are not going to grade it on time anyway

[Music Chart Fan 818]

Overall, I'll add to the pile-on in finding this episode dull and tedious. Applejack's and Rainbow's immature arguing and trying to one-up each other was boring, tiresome, and just dragged on and on. It also apparently caused the two of them to be irresponsible about the students' and their own safety, to boot. Twilight says in the episode that she thought Applejack and Rainbow were past that, and it really seems like they should be by this point. The Student Six are pleasant enough, but they weren't actually developed much in this episode, and, as others have suggested, their good moments seem to have come at the expense of making Applejack and Rainbow one-note and obnoxious. And the episode ends with Applejack and Rainbow still arguing, apparently not having learned anything, while the Student Six don't seem to have needed to learn anything, making the whole episode just feel pointless.

One thing that I kept thinking throughout the episode was this: if the Teacher of the Month award is, according to Twilight, "based on the students' vote", then shouldn't Applejack and Rainbow be trying to be the most popular among the students and giving the students what they want? Instead, both Rainbow and Applejack insist to each other that the students will vote for each of them because of what each of them is doing, but neither of them bother to notice that the students they presume to be talking for are just looking on, bored and exasperated. Applejack and Rainbow both just seem to figure that whatever they want to do is the same as what the students want to do, or what the students are looking for when they vote for Teacher of the Month, even as that seemed not to be the case. And even when the students are obviously annoyed with Applejack's and Rainbow's antics, and don't think that those antics are accomplishing anything, Applejack and Rainbow just keep doing them. How is that earning the students' votes?

I noticed at the end of the episode, though, that after the Student Six's praise of Applejack's and Rainbow's "crazy genius" teaching, Ocellus tells Twilight "We know it's too early to pick the Teacher of the Month, but we'd like you to consider Rainbow Dash and Applejack". If Teacher of the Month is just based upon student votes, then why would Twilight need to be asked to "consider" Rainbow and Applejack for it? Wouldn't it just be that whichever teacher gets the most student votes gets the award? But maybe Twilight's phrasing that the Teacher of the Month award is "based on the students' vote" implies that there are other factors than just the student vote, and that Twilight makes the final call. I still don't think that Applejack's and Rainbow's behavior makes much (if any) sense, even with this in mind, though, because their behavior both wasn't popular with the students and wasn't effective (or responsible) at teaching.

The other big question I would ask about the episode is whether the Student Six are supposed to be sincere in their praise of Applejack and Rainbow and their asking that the two of them be considered for Teacher of the Month. Are they supposed to be serious about the whole "teaching us what not to do" thing? Did the Student Six just have that good of a time working together and commiserating with each other about Applejack's and Rainbow's stupidity? My thought was that maybe they praised Applejack and Rainbow not out of sincerity, but in order to try to get them to stop competing with each other. So, in the Student Six's heads, they might be thinking "There, we nominated both of them for Teacher of the Month. So can they stop trying to one-up each other now?". I'm not sure that that's what they had in mind, though, and I wouldn't necessarily expect that to work.

-----

This episode also brought to mind a couple of stories from my experience. The first comes from Rainbow's idea of teaching teamwork by trying to have the students break some speed record doing an activity (canoeing) that they've probably never done before. I remember, in middle school, that all the sixth graders would go in smaller groups to this camp for a couple of days to (ostensibly) do exercises in immersion, team building, etc. And one of the activities was a high ropes course. Each of us students were asked to come up with a personal goal for what we wanted to accomplish on the ropes course, and then we would each work toward those goals and encourage each other to accomplish them. Students' personal goals ran the gamut from doing every activity on the ropes course to just climbing a few steps up the ladder, and while we were encouraged to push ourselves with our goals, none of us were forced to do something we didn't want to do.

Rainbow's approach in this episode was just to tell all the students that they would be canoeing to beat a speed record, and not to bother with any questions or concerns, like Yona had. I think that would be comparable to telling everyone at the ropes course at camp that we would be trying to have the whole class beat some collective speed record for completing every activity on the ropes course. At least some of the students would probably not be willing to do such a thing, or even be able to do it. But even students like me, who did want to do all the ropes course activities we could, would probably want to enjoy this (likely) first-time experience, rather than just rushing to do everything against the clock.

The other story comes from the student voting for the Teacher of the Month award. In my undergraduate years in chemical engineering, there was an award (in honor of a contributor to the department, I think), given to one professor each year in our department, which was voted on by the senior students. I saw that the professor who had won that award in several previous years was one who would often tell funny stories in class and crack sort of scathing jokes. And while that was fun and all, I felt like it often came at the expense of his not teaching or reinforcing the material very well, and then, for homework and exams, we would be kind of inexplicably expected to do things that we had barely learned in class. And, for example, there were other professors who didn't give much or any homework, but then I felt like almost none of the class material stuck in our brains, and we often wouldn't know what we were doing on exams, because we had little or no experience trying to solve problems with what we were (supposedly) learning in class.

In my senior year, though, the professor I voted for, and who actually won that year, was one whose classes were pretty strictly business (although he poked some deprecating humor at himself) and who assigned a fairly large amount of homework. However, I thought he really made an effort to engage the class in solving sample problems and trying to reinforce the main ideas; his homework and exams were tough but mostly fair; and I think he showed that he cared about us as students in his teaching and advising. For example, I remember, during bad winter weather, he told me and another student in the class, both commuters, that he would work with us to reschedule an upcoming exam if we felt we couldn't drive to school safely, even if the university didn't close. He might have been the only professor (or at least one of the only ones) I had who took the initiative to learn which students were commuters and offer to do that. And that meant a lot to me, since commuters like me were only a few percent of the student population, and consequently, professors and TAs would schedule things and act on the assumption that everyone lived on or next to campus, not really giving any consideration to us commuters in the process.

So, at least in the case of this award by student vote, I (and perhaps the plurality of my other classmates) wasn't necessarily voting on which professor in the department was the "coolest" or most funny or assigned the least homework, but rather, the professor who did the best job teaching and advising students and who seemed to care the most about them.

-----

Now for the rest of my miscellaneous observations:

The nine "Teacher of the Month" portraits on the wall implies that the school has been running for nine months already since the first episodes of the season, which seems hard to believe. It also implies that the Friendship School is a year-round school, and not just something like summer camp. That, in turn, raises the questions and complications about the Friendship School that I thought of in my post about the first episodes of the season: whether this is intended to replace regular schooling, how the Mane Six manage to be teachers while also having other jobs, etc.

As @Truffles pointed out, not only does it not make sense to build a roof separately and lower it onto the finished shed, Applejack is sitting directly underneath the roof, without even wearing a hard hat or any other safety gear! It's all just asking for an accident to happen. When the roof is dropped, though, Applejack is somehow totally clear of the shed she was just sitting on top of, and didn't get hurt.

So Rainbow's plan is to "smash the all-time Equestria speed record for river canoeing" with a bunch of students who have probably never done this before, and with this tank of a boat that looks much heavier and harder to handle than an actual canoe would be. Yeah, good luck with that. And of course, Rainbow asks if anyone has questions (like proper paddling technique, perhaps?) only to dismiss them because they supposedly have no time for them anyway. What, is the record timer running before they've even gotten in the boat?

If all the students keep paddling on the same side, then wouldn't the boat veer off toward the shore? Or does there just so happen to be a countervailing current of just the right strength such that the students' paddling is counteracting that to keep the boat moving forward?

Although the boat looks heavy, I don't know, somehow the boat was smashed to pieces just by running into a rock at a moderate speed.

Somehow a stick (that doesn't even look particularly sharp or anything) managed to tear Yona's life jacket down its length and rip it off of her. I might think that life jackets are made of stronger material than that, and should be better secured than that when worn properly. Maybe the life jackets were particularly old, and the aged material failed more easily than it should have; maybe the life jacket wasn't secured properly; or maybe Yona was above the weight limit for the life jacket. Of course, all of those are things that should be checked by a responsible teacher before starting a new and potentially life-threatening activity, but that would just be another thing that Applejack and Rainbow weren't being responsible about.

After the group realizes that they're lost, Smolder flies up to scout out a route back and says "We can still get back to school before dark if we cross that ravine and stop doubling back", which would seem to imply that they still have a long trek ahead of them and that they shouldn't waste any more time, in order to get back before dark. But then, at Gallus's suggestion to just fly everyone across the ravine, Applejack says "Nope!" and insists that "There's still plenty of time to teach y'all a lesson in teamwork" by building a bridge. So which is it? Smolder was the one who scouted out the path and, upon seeing it, said that they could get back to school before dark; does Applejack know differently that they still have "plenty of time" to mess around building a bridge?

Plus, who says that students helping to fly other students across the ravine isn't a sufficient lesson in teamwork? That's not to mention, of course, that despite Applejack's insistence on teaching a lesson in teamwork by building a bridge, the students just stand around bored as the teachers do all the work, only for their bridges to fail anyway.

Is there a reason that Smolder didn't help Silverstream and Gallus with hoisting Rainbow and Applejack (still in their "cage") out of the ravine? It doesn't look as though Smolder was doing anything else at the time, and I would think that they wouldn't want to take any chances with lifting Applejack and Rainbow with just two of them. Also, once the sticks are removed from the cage, there's really no point in Yona's smashing them into pieces on the ground.

[Rising Dusk 25,989]

This episode had a missed opportunity, in my opinion.  Really it should have been the case of the new students struggling with teamwork, conflicting ideals on how to perform a task, competing for the best, or what have you.  Then Applejack and Rainbow Dash passing on the experiences they learned from Fall Weather Friends and all the other times completing/showing off has gotten them into binds.  That looking out for number one isn't the best idea and two or more ponies can achieve more.  Probably could have even gotten a good song out of this one.

Sadly, we get to watch two teachers and respected heroines of Equestria devolve from lessons learned in front of students that display a better grasp of friendship already.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Rising Dusk

[Truffles 2,033]

7 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Twilight says in the episode that she thought Applejack and Rainbow were past that, and it really seems like they should be by this point.

It felt to me the writer was trying to make the audience aware that the episode knows this is well-worn territory and we should steel ourselves for it by bringing that specific point up so prominently at the start of the story. I'm not sure it was very effective, but it was interesting to note.

7 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

One thing that I kept thinking throughout the episode was this: if the Teacher of the Month award is, according to Twilight, "based on the students' vote", then shouldn't Applejack and Rainbow be trying to be the most popular among the students and giving the students what they want? Instead, both Rainbow and Applejack insist to each other that the students will vote for each of them because of what each of them is doing

Maybe the idea was we are to assume AJ and RD are projecting their own likes and dislikes onto their students, much like how some parents project their favorite activities onto their kids and assume that because they loved something when they were young, their kids will love it too? Winning a competition is something I could see RD thinking her students would get excited about, and I guess AJ's world view is so apple-centric that she feels building an apple shed is something the students would love, too?

7 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

I noticed at the end of the episode, though, that after the Student Six's praise of Applejack's and Rainbow's "crazy genius" teaching, Ocellus tells Twilight "We know it's too early to pick the Teacher of the Month, but we'd like you to consider Rainbow Dash and Applejack". If Teacher of the Month is just based upon student votes, then why would Twilight need to be asked to "consider" Rainbow and Applejack for it? Wouldn't it just be that whichever teacher gets the most student votes gets the award?

Maybe Ocellus was thinking Twilight could put RD and AJ's photos up early and that would count for the pick at the end of the month? I can't think of a good reason, however, for her or the other 5 to want to throw away their ability to change their minds as the month goes on. More disturbing, however, is why the Student 6 are seemingly the only ones allowed to cast a vote? The whole episode seems to make this implication that the sentiment of the other students at the school are never taken into account. Maybe RD and AJ thought they would repeat their actions over and over again with the rest of the student body to garner the remainder of the votes, but it doesn't seem like it by the way they talk about winning the award with this one field trip and totally focus on just these 6.

7 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

So, in the Student Six's heads, they might be thinking "There, we nominated both of them for Teacher of the Month. So can they stop trying to one-up each other now?". I'm not sure that that's what they had in mind, though, and I wouldn't necessarily expect that to work.

Someone on EqD replied to my comments there with the same idea, and it would be pretty ingenious for the students to give fake praise to put an end to the conflict. But to be honest, they sounded really sincere in saying RD and AJ were "showing us what not to do" so I'm not sure I buy that idea. Depending on where you land on this episode, this could be considered either totally brilliant or totally sloppy writing by the writer.

8 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

So, at least in the case of this award by student vote, I (and perhaps the plurality of my other classmates) wasn't necessarily voting on which professor in the department was the "coolest" or most funny or assigned the least homework, but rather, the professor who did the best job teaching and advising students and who seemed to care the most about them.

In the discussion about why Fluttershy kept getting voted as Best Teacher, I first thought it was because of her kindness. Then @ChB pointed out she might be easily persuaded to not give out homework. It might even go beyond that - perhaps she's not only kind by not giving out homework, maybe she puts easy questions on the tests and that's why they like her? That does go against the real-world example you give above, though, and if nothing else if she was not actually being effective at teaching her students anything, I would think after 9 months a performance review of her students by Twilight would have caught something that glaring.

And I don't know what to think yet of how to students feel about the hard work required for learning. In the premiere, at first some of them didn't even want to be there. Then during the montages they seemed to be getting into it. I guess part of the problem is their characters haven't been developed enough to give an indication as to whether they are students like you who care about learning the material, or are students who care more about building friendships and hanging out with each other. Since this is a "School of Friendship", I can't necessarily discount the latter as being a bad thing if that is really what Twilight's point of creating it was.

8 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

The nine "Teacher of the Month" portraits on the wall implies that the school has been running for nine months already since the first episodes of the season, which seems hard to believe.

Indeed, and yet there's no other rational explanation - unless Equestrian "months" are more like "weeks" in our world. But I think there are past episodes that mention a time periods of a week so that isn't likely the case.

One interesting thing to think about is that a certain character appeared in this episode, and there is another hard break in the timeline coming up shortly which means every single episode after that hard break must take place at least 9 months after the school opened - there's no wiggle room to reorder episodes like we sometimes could in the past.

8 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

And of course, Rainbow asks if anyone has questions (like proper paddling technique, perhaps?) only to dismiss them because they supposedly have no time for them anyway. What, is the record timer running before they've even gotten in the boat?

Yeah, that was another gaffe in the story. I guess we aren't expected to look too closely at such things. I didn't understand why she was concerned about the time since she has the right to start the stopwatch when they shove off from the shore. For that matter, there was no third party around to verify the race was run and timed properly, so I'm not sure it would count, anyway. I suppose AJ is as good as anyone to be that honest observer - even though her fabled honesty isn't really anything to write home about in this episode.

8 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Although the boat looks heavy, I don't know, somehow the boat was smashed to pieces just by running into a rock at a moderate speed.

Maybe Derpy or Snips and Snails built it? Whoever it was that built it, they are a good craftsman, but poor at workmanship!

8 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Applejack says "Nope!" and insists that "There's still plenty of time to teach y'all a lesson in teamwork" by building a bridge. So which is it? Smolder was the one who scouted out the path and, upon seeing it, said that they could get back to school before dark; does Applejack know differently that they still have "plenty of time" to mess around building a bridge?

I don't think neither AJ nor Rainbow cared when it was getting dark - they were determined to succeed at a teamwork building exercise no matter the cost. I suppose it could be, however, that because AJ spends most of her time outdoors, she has a better sense of how long she really has before it gets too dark to do any work. Maybe she figured they'd all "hoof it back" to the school after they got across the ravine?

Or maybe she was just full of it and was lying (again).

[BlackPony 77]

This episode is more hated than Fake it, huh? I’m actually kind of shocked.

 

This wasn’t insulting or anything, but AJ and RD’s arguing got annoying quickly. The Student 6 were cool, but this was pretty underwhelming otherwise.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

Although I really disliked the episode, I'm glad someone finally voted 'Love It'.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

So, the biggest problem I have with this episode is that it’s ignoring the point of the schools narrative purpose, or at least what most people assumed it would be. That because of how much the main cast has learned and progressed, it was time to introduce new characters to make mistakes, and have our main characters teach them what they’ve already learned.

Except we’re getting the opposite effect, the students aren’t learning and growing and seem to already know the lessons, and the teachers are repeating old mistakes that even the episode itself points out they should have moved past a long time ago.

This leads to a double-edged downside, not only do our old characters look bad by dredging up old flaws in the worst possible way, our new characters aren’t developing their own personalities and group dynamics, learning from their teachers or each other, and are basically being made as bland and likable as possible, without having to work for that likeableness.

To be clear, this has nothing to do with our main cast still learning lessons, or even having to retread old ground. That’s still an important part of the show formula, and I don’t want that to change. But it shouldn’t be happening in episodes about the school or the students, or their is no point in introducing either of these concepts.

[CastletonSnob 3,023]

Haber hasn't improved as a story editor despite getting more experience as one when he worked for Skylanders.

If anything, he's gotten worse. 

[JH24 385]

The episode was better than I expected, but not really a favorite for me. It did have things I liked and it were especially the students who shined in this episode. I'm liking them much more than I first thought I would.

What annoys me about this episode was that RD and Applejack faced no real consequences at all. Are they going to ignore they put the students in real danger and could have gotten seriously hurt? What happened on that canoe trip is inexcusable. In the end RD and Applejack keep up their squabbles; and instead of finally putting them into place Twilight just walks away. Is no one taking their responsibilty at this school?

The episode had some fun moments, but I'm confused about the moral.

Edited May 14, 2018 by JH24

[Misty Shadow 7,057]

Like Fake It til' You Make It, this is another episode I feel is getting too much hate just for characters acting in a way they felt was OOC. Both AJ and Dash have always been competitive. Was that trait exaggerated for this episode? Yes...but it's a cartoon. It's for comedic effect. Like, I get people thinking the running gag of them competing was growing tiring, but back to the point, don't you think that it would be boring if AJ and Dash were completely above any sort of petty behavior whatsoever?

[Music Chart Fan 818]

6 hours ago, Truffles said:

One interesting thing to think about is that a certain character appeared in this episode, and there is another hard break in the timeline coming up shortly which means every single episode after that hard break must take place at least 9 months after the school opened - there's no wiggle room to reorder episodes like we sometimes could in the past.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know what you're referring to, and that's a really good point; the writers are really boxed in to events strictly occurring before or after that.

6 hours ago, Truffles said:

More disturbing, however, is why the Student 6 are seemingly the only ones allowed to cast a vote? The whole episode seems to make this implication that the sentiment of the other students at the school are never taken into account. Maybe RD and AJ thought they would repeat their actions over and over again with the rest of the student body to garner the remainder of the votes, but it doesn't seem like it by the way they talk about winning the award with this one field trip and totally focus on just these 6.

That's another really good point. To my recollection, so far the other non-Student Six students at the Friendship School have essentially never been seen or mentioned, other than a few montage appearances in the first two episodes of the season. The Student Six other than Sandbar look to be the only non-pony students, so there's probably some novelty favoritism going on. And maybe the Mane Eight see it as particularly important to treat the non-pony students well in order to maintain good relations with the non-pony societies, whereas the pony students are more "expendable", so to speak, and thus aren't at the top of the Mane Eight's minds.

6 hours ago, Truffles said:

In the discussion about why Fluttershy kept getting voted as Best Teacher, I first thought it was because of her kindness. Then @ChB pointed out she might be easily persuaded to not give out homework. It might even go beyond that - perhaps she's not only kind by not giving out homework, maybe she puts easy questions on the tests and that's why they like her? That does go against the real-world example you give above, though, and if nothing else if she was not actually being effective at teaching her students anything, I would think after 9 months a performance review of her students by Twilight would have caught something that glaring.

And I don't know what to think yet of how to students feel about the hard work required for learning. In the premiere, at first some of them didn't even want to be there. Then during the montages they seemed to be getting into it. I guess part of the problem is their characters haven't been developed enough to give an indication as to whether they are students like you who care about learning the material, or are students who care more about building friendships and hanging out with each other. Since this is a "School of Friendship", I can't necessarily discount the latter as being a bad thing if that is really what Twilight's point of creating it was.

Yeah, thinking about it more, I might expect a difference in what would make a teacher popular depending on the age of the students, what the students' and teachers' expectations are, the difficulty of the class material, etc. In my experience in high school, expectations were lower, class material was easier, and it didn't seem to matter as much; plus, high school had a much more rigid schedule, and we were required to go to school and required to go to all of our classes, regardless of whether we wanted to go or whether we were getting anything out of them. Consequently, the goal in high school was often to get out of class and minimize the work we had to do whenever possible. So a lot of students (myself included) would join clubs or activities if those involved getting out of class, would want to avoid doing homework or want to have it cancelled, etc. For example, I remember there was a blood donation drive, and the prospect of getting out of class and getting free cookies and punch was actually a pretty effective motivation for students to donate.

So, in that kind of environment, it would make more sense for popular teachers to be the ones who are easiest or give out the least amount of work. In college, especially in the later years, expectations were much higher and the class material was much harder, and in that case, students (including me) might, to a greater extent, want teachers who are effective at teaching and advising, since those sort of become a lot more important by that point.

And yeah, my confusion about whether this is a year-round school, to what extent it replaces regular schooling, how students got into the school, etc. might also tie into how seriously the students are taking their studies, and thus to what extent effective teaching is a factor in the students' voting for Teacher of the Month.

[Dark Qiviut 22,160]

15 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

Both AJ and Dash have always been competitive. Was that trait exaggerated for this episode? Yes...but it's a cartoon. It's for comedic effect.

"A cartoon" and "comedy" are no excuse, especially with a cartoon designed to educate children and have these characters be role models to children. There is a time and place for AJ and Dash to be competitive and petty with each other. They weren't that close in Fall Weather Friends, and their competition in Castle Mane-ia was mostly in good fun. Here, they ignored their duties as both teachers for a prestigious school and students' guardians to usurp one another and win Teacher on the Month. Their behavior and actions were inexcusable: Had Yona drowned, who know what would happen to that princesses' international relations, much less the school's rep.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

52 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

Like Fake It til' You Make It, this is another episode I feel is getting too much hate just for characters acting in a way they felt was OOC. Both AJ and Dash have always been competitive. Was that trait exaggerated for this episode? Yes...but it's a cartoon. It's for comedic effect. Like, I get people thinking the running gag of them competing was growing tiring, but back to the point, don't you think that it would be boring if AJ and Dash were completely above any sort of petty behavior whatsoever?

I think they finally crossed the line when they let Yona drown. If both AJ and RD stop their petty arguments to save Yona right away and learn a bit lesson in the end of the day, then i am fine with it. 

Since mlp is a 'cartoon' so i am fine with characters are being exaggerated and goofy but mlp is not Looney Toon or South Park, they has continuity and character progression, some certain lines cannot be crossed or... at least do it in an EXTREME FUNNY ways so  i wont notice (this episode failed to do that either way).

At least Fake it til You Make it is super funny.