spoiler Possible Villain Reforms?

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

Supposedly, Tirek is returning in the S8 finale, and Grogar will be in the S9 premiere.

How likely do you think it is that one of both of them get reformed? How do you think they'll do it?

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Of the two, Tirek seems the more likely. He has a connection with his brother Scorpan. Something to reconcile. In some ways, it would actually kind of book end Celestia and Luna. Celestia unwittingly lead Luna down a dark path through Luna's resentment of how loved her sister was and that drove her to become Nightmare Moon. Tirek unwittingly lead his brother down a benevolent path by sending him to a land of friendship and he saw this as a grievous betrayal.

Grogar . . . maybe it's just the years of fanon hype since Tirek was far more intimidating than Grogar was in G1. I just feel like he should be something truly vile and powerful. (And hey, if the Smooze has turned into a total, disappointing, non-threat, surely only a semi-big bad could become something truly sinister.) For one thing, between the restored Elements of Harmony AND Pillars of Equestria, four five technically Princesses, basically an archmage in Starlight, the entire Changeling hive, the Dragonlord, and Discord; the villain would need to be a threat that would rival Old Scratch himself just to pose any kind of obstacle to the heroes. Something that evil I don't think could be "redeemed" in the sense that has thus far been shown.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Steel Accord

[Sovereign Leader Rarity 12,000]

I'm really looking forward to them both. Tirek is my favorite antagonist thus far in the series, and Grogar following in his footsteps is really exciting in my opinion.

As for whether or not one of them will be reformed, in Tirek's case I'd say it's about 50/50. As for Grogar, reforming a villain immediately after introducing them would be pretty redundant in my opinion, and it seems unlikely that they would go down that route again after the Season 7 finale.

Though I must say that I don't particularly want either of them to be reformed. Over the course of the series (not including EG), all but 4 antagonists have been reformed (and two of them died in their debut appearances). Tirek does not seem like the redeemable sort in my opinion, and I would like to see him defeated for good, without being reformed. It would be a nice change of story when compared to the a lot of recent two-parters. As for Grogar, I think that he should at least be permitted to spread his wings as a credible villain, before the question of his reformation is posed.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Tirek: My brother ate my sandwich.

Twilight: Make a new one.

REDEEMED!

Grogar: I am a powerful and intelligent villain.

Twilight: Friendship.

DEFEATED!

[cmarston1 5,951]

Unfortunately I could see Tirek possibly being reformed.  Given his relation with his brother Scorpan, I could see that being used as a vessel to make him renounce being evil.  Even if, like with Chrysalis, I really really don't want to see him become a good guy. 

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

1 minute ago, cmarston1 said:

Unfortunately I could see Tirek possibly being reformed.  Given his relation with his brother Scorpan, I could see that being used as a vessel to make him renounce being evil.  Even if, like with Chrysalis, I really really don't want to see him become a good guy. 

Why not?

[BlackPony 77]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

Tirek: My brother ate my sandwich.

 

Twilight: Make a new one.

 

REDEEMED!

Tirek's not gonna be redeemed because of something so stupid.

He's gonna be redeemed because it'll be revealed that he failed a math test, and he got very angry and vowed to destroy equestria. That's just... really, really sad. 

[King of Canterlot 9,588]

I think Tirek is gonna end up being redeemed, I think its more likely simply because his brother turned to side with the ponies so long ago, I think they'll somehow be able to show Tirek how good ponies are and how harmony is great and all that other stuff. 

Sadly, we're gonna have to prepare to lose on the best villains in the series 

[Redeye 399]

None.

Stop reforming villains.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Reforming Tirek can be the worst thing the show has ever done. Storm King is not a very evil villain the show has ever created but yet he's received the most gruesome death then why not Tirek? We saw Sombra was reformed in the comic and that's ended badly. I hope the staffs know what they are doing...

[Steel Accord 6,658]

3 hours ago, cmarston1 said:

Even if, like with Chrysalis, I really really don't want to see him become a good guy. 

Call me idealistic. (Ironic in this case.) I think that door has been pretty firmly shut. By the character in question even. Chrysalis had her chance with Starlight and she pointedly refused it. In the comics, she was even doing jail time and she showed no sign of remorse or penance. A brief digression: Chrysalis might be the best villain on the show simply by virtue of being the only re-occurring antagonist that remains firmly on the side of evil. What's more is that she's not a possessed demigoddess or the embodiment of an arguably negative force. She's powerful and definitely something less than natural but she's not as high up on the ontology of malevolent forces in this world the same way whatever parties what slumber gave birth to the Pony of Shadows are. So what does it say that demons and fallen angels have aligned with the side of Harmony but Chrysalis seems defiantly committed to conquest, consumption, and vengeance?

36 minutes ago, Lambdadelta said:

Reforming Tirek can be the worst thing the show has ever done. Storm King is not a very evil villain the show has ever created but yet he's received the most gruesome death then why not Tirek? We saw Sombra was reformed in the comic and that's ended badly. I hope the staffs know what they are doing...

It may not always be to our liking, but they are professionals. Of course they know what they're doing. I've heard this chestnut since season 2 and it really needs to be put out of circulation.

3 hours ago, VG_Addict said:

Why not?

If I might chip in, I agree. On the one hoof, it gets kind of predictable. Speaking for myself, I grew up with a lot of Saturday morning and Friday night anime. The amount of villains who become heroes I saw got pretty ridiculous and it even as a kid I could sort of tell who was going to eventually make the turn around. Therefore it kind of sucked some of the tension out since I could guess the outcome.

It also means that a lot of times, the actions of said former villain don't feel properly punished. So it almost seems like mercy came at the cost of justice. Arguably the worst offender in this case was Starlight as she ran a genuine communist cult and when that was ruined for her, she almost destroyed the entire world. I mean, it's almost ironic, that Starlight did more damage and potential damage than Chysalis ever could. Yet we see her properly vetted and gone through a genuine arc where she admits her fault, feels guilt, reconnects with old friends, makes new ones, and then saves the very world she almost destroyed at great personal risk to herself. So her being redeemed truly feels earned in the sense of having sought and gained redemption.

So if Tirek were to be redeemed, it would have to be a very fresh take on a concept we've seen explored in different characters already. (Which was good, Luna, Discord, and Starlight all had different attitudes and experiences with their respective redemption roads.) To the second point though, it would almost feel unearned as, he's done so much damage and meant so much intentional harm, that simply being let off the hook feels like he's escaped any form of punishment for what he's done.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

1 hour ago, Lambdadelta said:

Reforming Tirek can be the worst thing the show has ever done. Storm King is not a very evil villain the show has ever created but yet he's received the most gruesome death then why not Tirek? We saw Sombra was reformed in the comic and that's ended badly. I hope the staffs know what they are doing...

That non canon comic means nothing, Sombra is not reformed, as of now in show canon he is dead.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

48 minutes ago, Steel Accord said:

Of course they know what they're doing.

Some inconsistencies, some catastrophes happened throught out 7 seasons (horrible bad writtings, questionable directions) gave me any right to DOUBT them sometimes.

48 minutes ago, Steel Accord said:

Therefore it kind of sucked some of the tension out since I could guess the outcome.

To make the S8 finale less predictable, don't reform any villain THIS TIME, I bet a lot of people will surprise because a lot people expected some reformations. Self-awareness is required.

9 minutes ago, RyanMahaffe said:

That non canon comic means nothing, Sombra is not reformed, as of now in show canon he is dead.

Of course, I knew that comic is not canon, I just make an example of how disastrous the forced reformation of a TV-Y rating TV shows COULD BE. This is not anime, you don't have luxury 20+ episodes to make an awful bad guy look redeemable. Luckily, Starlight's case turned out fine because she looks not totally evil even you just watch her first 2 episodes but still, she had to go through S6 not without people criticizing, angry ranting and wish she would disappear or something, it required an amount of episodes which is very luxury for a new character in the late stage of the show.

 

What I want for the S8 finale is: Understand what make the villains turn out his/her way but not nessesarily reform them.

1 hour ago, Steel Accord said:

Chrysalis might be the best villain on the show simply by virtue of being the only re-occurring antagonist that remains firmly on the side of evil.

COOL!!! 

 

 

[Ganondox 899]

7 hours ago, Steel Accord said:

Of the two, Tirek seems the more likely. He has a connection with his brother Scorpan. Something to reconcile. In some ways, it would actually kind of book end Celestia and Luna. Celestia unwittingly lead Luna down a dark path through Luna's resentment of how loved her sister was and that drove her to become Nightmare Moon. Tirek unwittingly lead his brother down a benevolent path by sending him to a land of friendship and he saw this as a grievous betrayal.

Grogar . . . maybe it's just the years of fanon hype since Tirek was far more intimidating than Grogar was in G1. I just feel like he should be something truly vile and powerful. (And hey, if the Smooze has turned into a total, disappointing, non-threat, surely only a semi-big bad could become something truly sinister.) For one thing, between the restored Elements of Harmony AND Pillars of Equestria, four five technically Princesses, basically an archmage in Starlight, the entire Changeling hive, the Dragonlord, and Discord; the villain would need to be a threat that would rival Old Scratch himself just to pose any kind of obstacle to the heroes. Something that evil I don't think could be "redeemed" in the sense that has thus far been shown.

It's funny, because The Pony of Shadows should have been one of the greatest threats to Equestria, but with all the power Mane Six and Co. he basically got curb stomped. I think that was one of the few villains who failed to even incapacitate Celestia.  

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

I'm all for villains in MLP being reformed yet there should be some who are just incapable of changing their ways. If all of them were able to be reformed, it would send a positive message, yes, but at the same time it would show that villains in MLP don't live up to the expectations that come with being villainous in nature. Lord Tirek should be one of those villains who cannot be reformed though knowing the writers, they will find a way to somehow make it happen where he changed his ways.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

50 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

It's funny, because The Pony of Shadows should have been one of the greatest threats to Equestria, but with all the power Mane Six and Co. he basically got curb stomped. I think that was one of the few villains who failed to even incapacitate Celestia.  

Well the Pony of Shadows, even at the prime of Shadow Play was extremely weakened compared to 1000+ years ago.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

10 hours ago, Ganondox said:

It's funny, because The Pony of Shadows should have been one of the greatest threats to Equestria, but with all the power Mane Six and Co. he basically got curb stomped. I think that was one of the few villains who failed to even incapacitate Celestia.  

Well to be fair. They had the Pillars plus the Mane Six. The threat was less about defeating him so much as it was how they were going to and whether Stygian was worth saving. I certainly wasn’t disappointed in the ending since it felt suitably big. With the Shadow creature being sealed away but Stygian being saved.

12 hours ago, RyanMahaffe said:

That non canon comic means nothing, Sombra is not reformed, as of now in show canon he is dead.

Canon or not, it is a part of the franchise. It exists. So it can’t just be dismissed only because it doesn’t affect the show proper in terms of themes, ideas, or executions thereof. Canon only comes into play when one is talking about specific events or chronology.

11 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

Some inconsistencies, some catastrophes happened throught out 7 seasons (horrible bad writtings, questionable directions) gave me any right to DOUBT them sometimes.

You have the right, of course. Just personally, don’t agree.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Steel Accord

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

11 hours ago, Steel Accord said:

 

Canon or not, it is a part of the franchise. It exists. So it can’t just be dismissed only because it doesn’t affect the show proper in terms of themes, ideas, or executions thereof. Canon only comes into play when one is talking about specific events or chronology.

 

Makes literally no difference as to what I said, my point was that Sombra is not yet reformed as the comic is non canon.

Could not have made that more obvious.

[Karnak 187]

16 minutes ago, RyanMahaffe said:

Makes literally no difference as to what I said, my point was that Sombra is not yet reformed as the comic is non canon.

Could not have made that more obvious.

Agreed. Quite a few issues have become non canon with episodes airing. Friendship was proven non canon with Shadow Play Part 1(which also proved Equestria girls is part of the show canon)

Comics are not Show Cannon

 

the comics are an alternate timeline...there I just solved the problem.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Karnak

[Steel Accord 6,658]

18 hours ago, RyanMahaffe said:

Makes literally no difference as to what I said, my point was that Sombra is not yet reformed as the comic is non canon.

Could not have made that more obvious.

I wasn't disagreeing with the point that he's not reformed according to canon. I was only saying that it's not impossible within the universe of the show.

18 hours ago, Karnak said:

Agreed. Quite a few issues have become non canon with episodes airing. Friendship was proven non canon with Shadow Play Part 1(which also proved Equestria girls is part of the show canon)

Comics are not Show Cannon

 

the comics are an alternate timeline...there I just solved the problem.

I'm not saying, nor have I been saying, that they are canon.

[bluseymoe 258]

Incoming Chrysalis reformation. I don't know for sure, but I've got that feeling.