How bad is racism/sexism, etc in the MLP fandom?

[SharpWit 2,472]

It's kind of funny how prevalent racism (speciesism) there is in the show but I haven't really seen any in the fandom regarding actual people. There was that period where some were insistent that female fans couldn't be called Bronies and had to be called Pegasisters but that's largely been passed and I think was more of an argument on semantics or whatever.

[ShadowSJG 62]

5 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

One can definitely find those things. The question is: when do those things become harassment? Action should only be taken when such content/fan behavior is not easily avoided by those who do not wish to experience it. However, if you go on ahead and actively seek out sexism or racism just to point fingers and scream how hurt you are cause you have deliberately searched for offensive Aryanne pictures, then it's on you. There's also that big can of worms about what one considers racism or sexism. I believe most of us understand that there is a huge problem with the definitions.

 

 

 

I'd like to point out that Poniverse is very strict when it comes to such content, and as far as I'm aware no member is being harassed on the basis of their gender.

Uh, no, 'most people' do not believe there are issue with definitions. When something is racist/sexist, people call like it is. You have no right to tell women and minorities what is or isn't sexist for them.

4 hours ago, ShadOBabe said:

 

Okay, Shadow, I’ve seen a lot of posts from you now, and the reason people don’t not tend to agree with you is because you seem to be the kind of person that believes witchhunts are an appropriate response to dealing with people you don’t agree with.

And it isn’t.

On a related note, I’d like to point out, that what is seen as “racist” and “sexist” can very from person to person. In some parts of the world, there are women who would get their fingers chopped off for wearing nail polish. THAT is abhorant.

But on the Internet, you will run into people that think, “OMG, some misogynistic pig OPENED A DOOR FOR ME!! Ugh!!”

If you don’t mind, I’d like you to tell me, what did this prominent brony say that was racist? It doesn’t need to be a novel. A couple sentences/examples should suffice.

Maybe exposing is out of line but I'd like to point out that racism/sexism are not simple disagreements thank you very much.  They are responsible for various atrocities. If someone is a bigot, I'm calling them out. 

Also, I don't think you have an accurate understanding of what those are.

 

This brony thinks saying the N word is no big deal.  He tried to normalize it by saying it simply slips out and many people say it. That isn't true. The N word coming out is not a slip up. It means someone is ok with it. Also the word was used to dehumanize people like me. When blacks were being lynched, they were called n***. It is a big deal.

[Zhortac 1,473]

14 hours ago, Cadancerules said:

Everything is sexist, everything is racist : P

 

 

This pretty much sums up the issue, and why it's shit. But then again, it's everywhere.

[King of Canterlot 9,588]

As far as I know it's not all that bad, but then again this is coming from someone who doesn't take much notice of fandom drama and hasn't gone to any conventions and such. I would hope that as fans of a show about friendship and magic that we would be able to be better than normal people when it comes to issues about racism and sexism and such  

[Goat-kun 2,495]

20 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

Uh, no, 'most people' do not believe there are issue with definitions. When something is racist/sexist, people call like it is. You have no right to tell women and minorities what is or isn't sexist for them.

Did you just assume my identity? What you are doing is racist and sexist.

[Outnick 1,228]

i have never saw that on this fandom :c

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

2 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Maybe exposing is out of line but I'd like to point out that racism/sexism are not simple disagreements thank you very much.  They are responsible for various atrocities. If someone is a bigot, I'm calling them out. 

Also, I don't think you have an accurate understanding of what those are.

This brony thinks saying the N word is no big deal.  He tried to normalize it by saying it simply slips out and many people say it. That isn't true. The N word coming out is not a slip up. It means someone is ok with it. Also the word was used to dehumanize people like me. When blacks were being lynched, they were called n***. It is a big deal.

It’s good that you want to world to be a better place, but I have to inform you that just having bigoted beliefs is not, in fact, illegal. Morally gross sure, and by voicing their thoughts, they are inviting dissenting opinions. But you cannot and should not police thought, even if you believe the other person is wrong.

Even if what someone believes is wrong to you, no matter what it is, they still have the right to believe it. It’s only when it stops being a thought in their head and starts becoming a harmful action against others that it is illegal, and should be controlled and policed. Harassment? Yes. Discrimination in the workplace? Yes. Physical threat? Of course. But some moron’s thoughts? No.

An image I always think of when something like this is brought up is this footage I watched of a black police officer standing guard at a KKK rally of all things. Because despite the fact that I wouldn’t mind if any of those fools got punched in the mouth, as long as they aren’t injuring people or damaging property, they do in fact have the right to assemble and voice their thoughts, disgusting or not. That black officer was the better person, because he was treating all civilians equally under the law, good or bad.

Ultimately, what did you want to achieve when you told people about this brony that uses racial slurs? What do you want people to do?

You can inform people of what he’s done. But after that, what then? What did you want people to do? Stop paying attention to the guy? That’s easy, but it’s not going to stop him. Ultimately all you can do is sniff in disgust and then go about your business. Because why is he worth your attention after that?

Edited May 26, 2018 by ShadOBabe

[ShadowSJG 62]

6 minutes ago, ShadOBabe said:

It’s good that you want to world to be a better place, but I have to inform you that just having bigoted beliefs is not, in fact, illegal. Morally gross sure, and by voicing their thoughts, they are inviting decenting opinions. But you cannot and should not police thought, even if you believe the other person is wrong.

Even if what someone believes is wrong to you, no matter what it is, they still have the right to believe it. It’s only when it stops being a thought in their head and starts becoming a harmful action against others that it is illegal, and should be controlled and policed. Harassment? Yes. Discrimination in the workplace? Yes. Physical threat? Of course. But some moron’s thoughts? No.

An image I always think of when something like this is brought up is this footage I watched of a black police officer standing guard at a KKK rally of all things. Because despite the fact that I wouldn’t mind if any of those fools got punched in the mouth, as long as they aren’t injuring people or damaging property, they do in fact have the right to assemble and voice their thoughts, disgusting or not. That black officer was the better person, because he was treating all civilians equally under the law, good or bad.

Ultimately, what did you want to achieve when you told people about this brony that uses racial slurs? What do you want people to do?

You can inform people of what he’s done. But after that, what then? What did you want people to do? Stop paying attention to the guy? That’s easy, but it’s not going to stop him. Ultimately all you can do is sniff in disgust and then go about your business. Because why is he worth your attention after that?

Let me elaborate. Here is what they said regarding using the N word. They didn't say it but defended usage of it:

 

 

 

I just think people should be aware of this individual's atttidue.

[Libra 11,690]

2 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

Let me elaborate. Here is what they said regarding using the N word. They didn't say it but defended usage of it:

 

 

 

I just think people should be aware of this individual's atttidue.

 (I really dont want to do this but im going to say it, put it out and deal with the conseuqneces) Your point is complete bogus.

why? Let me explain something.

for example. Your "racist" poster (who i am 100% certain it is aleximusprime) is not racist at all. He just thinks the overreactions to felix's N-bomb are stupid  and i fully agree with him. This is pewdiepie, the god damn king of shock humor.  and i will agree with your censored poster. You are just reading what you want to read to confirm your beliefs. In reality. He doesnt support that behavoir  i think its to be honest, stupid,  how you are only willing to read two lines and throw baseless accusations instead of reading and adressig his whole point. However, i can interpret it for you.

According to your "racist", pewdiepie/felix was just caught up in the game and he let it slip out. a lot of people in the first/third person shooter industy have a lot of colorful vocabulary. even using derogatory slurs. However. it ticks me off that people are overreacting to it. Now, you need to adress his whole point instead of making assumptions based on two lines of information.

[ShadowSJG 62]

17 minutes ago, Ninetales said:

 (I really dont want to do this but im going to say it, put it out and deal with the conseuqneces) Your point is complete bogus.

why? Let me explain something.

for example. Your "racist" poster (who i am 100% certain it is aleximusprime) is not racist at all. He just thinks the overreactions to felix's N-bomb are stupid  and i fully agree with him. This is pewdiepie, the god damn king of shock humor.  and i will agree with your censored poster. You are just reading what you want to read to confirm your beliefs. In reality. He doesnt support that behavoir  i think its to be honest, stupid,  how you are only willing to read two lines and throw baseless accusations instead of reading and adressig his whole point. However, i can interpret it for you.

According to your "racist", pewdiepie/felix was just caught up in the game and he let it slip out. a lot of people in the first/third person shooter industy have a lot of colorful vocabulary. even using derogatory slurs. However. it ticks me off that people are overreacting to it. Now, you need to adress his whole point instead of making assumptions based on two lines of information.

Yeah, no. You don't get it.  Using the N word is not a slip up and it's not overreacting. Read this(and yes, he is racist). It's so annoying how people ignore that these slurs reinforce hate and bigotry against marginalized people. I see this bullshit defense too often. People who say "I'm not racist, I just use the word" YOURE FUCKING RACIST. People are telling you that saying that word hurts them. You are responding by ignoring them, and telling them their opinions and feelings and mental health mean nothing to you.

 

The argument that the word "[racism 1]" is harmless because it's Latin and is the name of Nigeria overlooks a long history of social implications, usage, and complexities as much as it overlooks its etymological roots. For starters, the name of Nigeria is derived from the river Niger, which isn't sourced from the Latin languages but from Berber as "River of Rivers". Nigerians don't make a fuss about it, because they're the country of the River of Rivers. Or from the Berber relatives of the Tuareg: Egerew n-Igerewen. This was passed down to us by Leo Africanus.

 

While you might think that phonetically the name of Nigeria is derived from the Latin word for black, their two different instance of two words that mean different things from different languages, like "gift" in English and "gift" in German. You want a gift in English, gift in German kills you. Gift is poison auf deutsch.

 

The pejorative word "[racism 1]" is rooted from the Spanish and Portugese words for black people, which does have a Latin root meaning black. But is not the same as the meaning of Niger.

 

Now, etymology aside the fact of the matter is excusing the weight of the word as being little because of some originally harmless meaning (black) does nothing but overlook the social context of its use and history. By the 18th century the modern derivatives for Latin-black in the context of people began to be used to look down on people of darker skin, evolving with language trends and the evolution of English to become what it is today. But because of its broader context to describe a people who were all largely enslaved through much of anglo history. Even with slavery being abandoned by the British thirty-years before America, the mindset of the inferior black - the [racism 1] - was an important meme to deploy in the imperial experiments in Africa and the civilization of Africa through colonization, turning the natives of the land into second class, unworthy citizens. Likewise the usage of the word to further differentiate the blacks who were enslaved and the free whites of America became a means by which the slavery was maintained or even bred out of the institution of slavery in a cycle of use. Attaching not just a recognition of difference in skin tone, by association and use the definition of and use of "[racism 1]" took on to mean less developed people, as in the British Empire but also illustrated in America by Jefferson's writings on slavery proclaiming the African blacks as being naturally inferior; interestingly as contrasted against Washington's later development and admission that the African Blacks were inferior because of slavery, and not as Jefferson said that they're enslaved because of their perceived natural inferiority.

 

The emancipation of slaves really doesn't do much to overlook this or stop or change its use. The later Civil Rights movement(s) and the missions of such groups as the NAACP and the MLK's Southern Baptist Church helped to mark a trend to neutralize the effect of the N-word by replacing it all together with neutral terms that don't carry that historical weight. Because even over a century after the end of slavery and the weight, implications, and hate of the word "[racism 1]" or the aristocratically dated "Negro" still remains, and sweepingly ignoring all that history behind the word, by saying it doesn't matter, does little in actually healing it. As it stands, when spoken by a white person to describe a thing or a person it compares it by connotation to a black person, and implies both are the same thing, which has been the entire contemporary mission of the Civil Rights movement to surmount and defeat.

 

tl;dr - Words just don't mean just words, and using them without awareness of their connotations is an admission of ignorance or if with intent as being racist.

And this:

that's not real lol if you say the n word "on reflex" or whatever that means you say it so much it's inscribed a pathway in your brain, meaning pewdiepie must be calling people around him the n word every day. it doesn't "slip" out unless you say it a lot

Never was said casually by anyone who I knew growing up. Even on the circles of the internet I hung out in, or the online games I played (90s PC gaming). I heard this changed a lot with XBox and voice chat (I stopped playing online at around that time).

So to me, I find it hard to believe it's just a slip, but I know not everyone has the same experience with the word in the environment they grew up in.

I tend to be in the camp that thinks focusing on language is too often simply performative, and it seems easy for a white person to just agree not to say a word and feel good about themselves, when there's a lot more they can and should be doing. That said, virtually everyone who makes the argument for saying the "N word" has other motives, and since it's so easy to just not say it, I wonder why it is such an issue for people.

 

It's not colorful vocabulary. Stop trying to normalize racial slurs. Why don't you actually ask a black person how they feel?

Edited May 26, 2018 by ShadowSJG

[Libra 11,690]

Just now, ShadowSJG said:

Yeah, no. You don't get it.  Using the N word is not a slip up and it's not overreacting. Read this(and yes, he is racist):

 

The argument that the word "[racism 1]" is harmless because it's Latin and is the name of Nigeria overlooks a long history of social implications, usage, and complexities as much as it overlooks its etymological roots. For starters, the name of Nigeria is derived from the river Niger, which isn't sourced from the Latin languages but from Berber as "River of Rivers". Nigerians don't make a fuss about it, because they're the country of the River of Rivers. Or from the Berber relatives of the Tuareg: Egerew n-Igerewen. This was passed down to us by Leo Africanus.

 

While you might think that phonetically the name of Nigeria is derived from the Latin word for black, their two different instance of two words that mean different things from different languages, like "gift" in English and "gift" in German. You want a gift in English, gift in German kills you. Gift is poison auf deutsch.

 

The pejorative word "[racism 1]" is rooted from the Spanish and Portugese words for black people, which does have a Latin root meaning black. But is not the same as the meaning of Niger.

 

Now, etymology aside the fact of the matter is excusing the weight of the word as being little because of some originally harmless meaning (black) does nothing but overlook the social context of its use and history. By the 18th century the modern derivatives for Latin-black in the context of people began to be used to look down on people of darker skin, evolving with language trends and the evolution of English to become what it is today. But because of its broader context to describe a people who were all largely enslaved through much of anglo history. Even with slavery being abandoned by the British thirty-years before America, the mindset of the inferior black - the [racism 1] - was an important meme to deploy in the imperial experiments in Africa and the civilization of Africa through colonization, turning the natives of the land into second class, unworthy citizens. Likewise the usage of the word to further differentiate the blacks who were enslaved and the free whites of America became a means by which the slavery was maintained or even bred out of the institution of slavery in a cycle of use. Attaching not just a recognition of difference in skin tone, by association and use the definition of and use of "[racism 1]" took on to mean less developed people, as in the British Empire but also illustrated in America by Jefferson's writings on slavery proclaiming the African blacks as being naturally inferior; interestingly as contrasted against Washington's later development and admission that the African Blacks were inferior because of slavery, and not as Jefferson said that they're enslaved because of their perceived natural inferiority.

 

The emancipation of slaves really doesn't do much to overlook this or stop or change its use. The later Civil Rights movement(s) and the missions of such groups as the NAACP and the MLK's Southern Baptist Church helped to mark a trend to neutralize the effect of the N-word by replacing it all together with neutral terms that don't carry that historical weight. Because even over a century after the end of slavery and the weight, implications, and hate of the word "[racism 1]" or the aristocratically dated "Negro" still remains, and sweepingly ignoring all that history behind the word, by saying it doesn't matter, does little in actually healing it. As it stands, when spoken by a white person to describe a thing or a person it compares it by connotation to a black person, and implies both are the same thing, which has been the entire contemporary mission of the Civil Rights movement to surmount and defeat.

 

tl;dr - Words just don't mean just words, and using them without awareness of their connotations is an admission of ignorance or if with intent as being racist.

And this:

that's not real lol if you say the n word "on reflex" or whatever that means you say it so much it's inscribed a pathway in your brain, meaning pewdiepie must be calling people around him the n word every day. it doesn't "slip" out unless you say it a lot

Never was said casually by anyone who I knew growing up. Even on the circles of the internet I hung out in, or the online games I played (90s PC gaming). I heard this changed a lot with XBox and voice chat (I stopped playing online at around that time).

So to me, I find it hard to believe it's just a slip, but I know not everyone has the same experience with the word in the environment they grew up in.

I tend to be in the camp that thinks focusing on language is too often simply performative, and it seems easy for a white person to just agree not to say a word and feel good about themselves, when there's a lot more they can and should be doing. That said, virtually everyone who makes the argument for saying the "N word" has other motives, and since it's so easy to just not say it, I wonder why it is such an issue for people.

 

It's not colorful vocabulary. Stop trying to normalize racial slurs. Why don't you actually ask a black person how they feel?

I'd hate to be the one, but you just strawmanned an entire argument i wasnt making. Try again.

 

[ShadowSJG 62]

3 minutes ago, Ninetales said:

I'd hate to be the one, but you just strawmanned an entire argument i wasnt making. Try again.

 

Riiight. I told you why it matters and it is not a slip up. Don't even try and act smart. You're not good at it.

 

Also, when Ben Shapiro said this: 

Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage. This is not a difficult issue. #settlementsrock

Your not racist said this:

 

https://sta.sh/0a5peex01j3

 

Now I'll sit back and watch you pathetically insist it's not racist.

Edited May 26, 2018 by ShadowSJG

[Libra 11,690]

Just now, ShadowSJG said:

Riiight. I told you why it matters and it is not a slip up. Don't even try and act smart. You're not good at it.

I will give you one chance, shadow. oNe.

show me where i said in the argument that what felix said was okay.

[Guest]

This discussion is beginning to turn into a childish posturing contest and that needs to stop now. Please leave your piece without provocation or insults to your fellow members or this thread will be locked.

 

Thank you

[ShadowSJG 62]

Ok. Yeah, this is getting off track. Back to the main message best/

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

6 hours ago, ShadOBabe said:

Well obviously the TARGET audience is little girls (they gotta rake in that toy money), but that does not make it for them exclusively.

Never said it was, so I don't see how this is relevant. 

6 hours ago, Tacodidra said:

The "MLP is a show for little girls" thing is generally used against bronies, to imply that they should not watch the show. It's understandable to me that people would defend the show for its general appeal in that situation (though it would be better sometimes to just ignore those comments). 

I'm not saying that it sexist to say that people can watch the show regardless of age or gender. But what I did say was sexist was to claim that it's target audience can't be little girls because it's half decent.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Yamet

[Outnick 1,228]

(what is a n word? and a r word?)

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

11 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

Let me elaborate. Here is what they said regarding using the N word. They didn't say it but defended usage of it:

I just think people should be aware of this individual's atttidue.

There is a phrase my mom uses that goes, “Trash in, trash out.” If you surround yourself with a constant cacophony of young, stupid, online gamers who are all in a quest to see who can yell the most offensive thing possible, then eventually, you’ll desensitize yourself to it and it’ll worm its way into your brain. So in that sense, I can believe someone can accidentally spew out the n-word.

I personally wish people would stop giving the word so much power and stop using it altogether. And no using it in an “empowering” or “reclaiming” way either. Just let it fade off into the non-existence it deserves. But that’s HIGHLY unlikely.

He is correct on a couple things though.

Words are, in fact, just sounds. We are the ones that assign them their meanings. Sure they can hurt. I ran into some wad saying nasty things about women just the other day. And it got me all riled and mad. But then I stopped and went about my business. Because that hateful person was meaningless to me. The best way to deal with your enemies is to show yourself and the world that you are better than they are.

And he is also correct that people have the right to say slurs, even if they shouldn’t. If you use slurs, I wouldn’t want anything to do with you because I find it distasteful, but legally you can say them all they want.

From my point of view, the problem with the comments you linked isn’t so much the fact that he doesn’t care if slurs are casually used. It’s the fact that he seems to need to work on his empathy. Even if you wholeheartedly believe that someone is wrong or being too sensitive, they are entitled to their feelings and you should still try and be understanding. You generate so much more goodwill and progress when you can harness your rage or ego and talk things out.

You won’t always be able to, since you’re human, but it’s a good goal to work towards.

[Methuselah 291]

16 hours ago, Cadancerules said:

Everything is sexist, everything is racist : P

 

But its ok, racism is fine in MLP world, you just have to live alongside them peacefully. Thats what MLP is all about

 

Well, it only figures Rarity's a racist. She is white after all

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

10 minutes ago, Yamet said:

Never said it was, so I don't see how this is relevant to what I said. 

I'm not saying that it sexist to say that people can watch the show regardless of age or gender. But what I did say was sexist was to claim that it's target audience can't be little girls because it's half decent.

I suppose I assumed, because I have seen people argue that the show was “not for us”, but I’ve never seen anyone argue that the show is not for girls.

[ShadowSJG 62]

7 minutes ago, ShadOBabe said:

There is a phrase my mom uses that goes, “Trash in, trash out.” If you surround yourself with a constant cacophony of young, stupid, online gamers who are all in a quest to see who can yell the most offensive thing possible, then eventually, you’ll desensitize yourself to it and it’ll worm its way into your brain. So in that sense, I can believe someone can accidentally spew out the n-word.

I personally wish people would stop giving the word so much power and stop using it altogether. And no using it in an “empowering” or “reclaiming” way either. Just let it fade off into the non-existence it deserves. But that’s HIGHLY unlikely.

He is correct on a couple things though.

Words are, in fact, just sounds. We are the ones that assign them their meanings. Sure they can hurt. I ran into some wad saying nasty things about women just the other day. And it got me all riled and mad. But then I stopped and went about my business. Because that hateful person was meaningless to me. The best way to deal with your enemies is to show yourself and the world that you are better than they are.

And he is also correct that people have the right to say slurs, even if they shouldn’t. If you use slurs, I wouldn’t want anything to do with you because I find it distasteful, but legally you can say them all they want.

From my point of view, the problem with the comments you linked isn’t so much the fact that he doesn’t care if slurs are casually used. It’s the fact that he seems to need to work on his empathy. Even if you wholeheartedly believe that someone is wrong or being too sensitive, they are entitled to their feelings and you should still try and be understanding. You generate so much more goodwill and progress when you can harness your rage or ego and talk things out.

You won’t always be able to, since you’re human, but it’s a good goal to work towards.

Did you see my post explaining why the N word is not just a sound due to the history.

On your first point, I respectfully disagree. I don't think it works like that.

[Jeric 46,834]

Hm. 

Got a question for the female members here. How often have you had to beat back awkward male bronies who engage you in conversation because of the novelty that you are a woman? Not exclusively here, but considering all the other fandom haunts you may frequent. 

How many of these interactions have come across as the guy trying to suss out if you are .... how can I put this delicately .... available and interested? How often have you felt it is jnnocent .... and how often have you been creeped out? 

[CheeryFox 23,811]

Probably the same as anyplace else--I would say. 

[Jeric 46,834]

@ShadOBabe just read one of your posts. I agree that we assign words their meaning and give them power. If this wasn't the case, literature would never invoke the emotional response it does. You are correct that stripping a word of it's associated meaning and emotional connotation is almost impossible. Like you the reason that I don't use this language is because I know the power and impact it does have. I think that may very well be the best approach. Use such language at your own risk. 

I'm always cautious and suspicious of any attempts to legistate politeness. Society does that on it's own with no help needed from a Bill..

[DixonTheAdversary 1,631]

I haven't really seen anything of the sort, but I know that there are some people out there that are like that. There is with every fandom.