How bad is racism/sexism, etc in the MLP fandom?

[ShadowSJG 62]

Yeah, edited it. Saw my mistake. Sorry, I'm just really tired now, didn't get much sleep last night.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

Ok. I responded already. But throughout history, Blacks for example, have experienced centuries of racism/discrimination. The Civl Rights movement was only 50 years ago. That stuff doesn't go away over night. Marginalized groups are more qualified to talk about this as they have experienced it first hand. It is not as discriminatory. Also, there is hypocrisy here. If I, a minority, calls out white privilige people like will use your own experiences to say it doesn't exist. And yet, you refuse to listen when minorites discuss their own issues?

I've already refuted this when I said a person has no right to say they are more or less qualified to an opinion based on things outside of their control. What I am listening to is a person tell other people they have no right to speak, which is wrong. While 50 years ago was not that long ago, it certainly seems long enough to give some the notion that it's meant to continue, when it shouldn't.

 

17 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

Also, racism can be overlooked by outsiders. For example, the person I linked who said dropping the N word is no big deal and just noise. To a black person, it isn't.

Sky Williams begs to differ.

 

17 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

You are another example. You are saying women cry sexism. Are you a women? No. You don't have the experience of women. Don't speak for them.

I guess I should tell my husband he is gay then. Wait...

I am a woman. But even if I weren't, I could speak to it regardless of what I was.

 

 

 

 

[ShadowSJG 62]

I'll have better responses later. Gonna rest for a bit. Also you didn't really refute anything. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by ShadowSJG

[Steve Piranha 28,748]

7 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Ok,what you said on the middle east is not true. Women are not stoned for wearing clothes. Don't believe everything you hear and fall into stereotypes. I've actually lived there.

Second, today, blacks and women in America for example, still experience sexism and racism, so that makes them more qualified to discuss these topics as outsiders tend to overlook racism/sexism.

Experiencing the occasional racism or sexism doesn't makes them the oppressed minority like times past. In fact, I'm seeing the roles reversed, with this "reverse racism" bullshit and how easy is to make false rape accusations 

[ShadowSJG 62]

5 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

Experiencing the occasional racism or sexism doesn't makes them the oppressed minority like times past. In fact, I'm seeing the roles reversed, with this "reverse racism" bullshit and how easy is to make false rape accusations 

Before I leave, I'll say this:

Systematic racism, sexual harrassement and police brutality shootings would like to have a word with you.

https://mic.com/articles/140882/what-is-reverse-racism-here-s-why-it-doesn-t-actually-exist-in-the-united-states

https://hellogiggles.com/news/racism-against-white-people-doesnt-exist-in-america-and-heres-why-it-never-will/

Also, dissappointed to see you say this.

Again, this thread confirms my fears.

[The Recherche 29,965]

10 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Ok,what you said on the middle east is not true. Women are not stoned for wearing clothes. Don't believe everything you hear and fall into stereotypes. I've actually lived there.

You know what I was saying, though; in certain areas around the world, women can be severely punished for not wearing Hijab, for example. This doesn't apply to every area around the world, obviously, but the important part is that it still happens. Let me stay on topic, though...

10 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Second, today, blacks and women in America for example, still experience sexism and racism, so that makes them more qualified to discuss these topics as outsiders tend to overlook racism/sexism.

If you're talking about the average schmuck who just saw a news headline, then you're absolutely right. This goes right back to what I said previously, though; nobody's circumstances are the same. The entire point I'm making here is that everyone is an individual who lives their own life, so putting someone on a pedestal simply due to a common trait they share with a victim is, frankly, ignorant.

5 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Also, to the some of the people I'm talking to: It's almost a sure thing youu objects to the idea of "white privilege" as defined by minorities. So why do you feel as a white person, you're the most qualified to speak on your own privilege and I hope you can see hypocrisy in believing you're as qualified as a marginalised group to speak on marginalization.

Then that's a loaded question. You proposed the question "Why do feel, as a white person, that you're more qualified to speak on your own privilege?" We are not allowed to answer, because that would mean that we're putting ourselves in a position to speak about it. This rationale is circular and self-justifying, so you're not going to get any productive responses.

5 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Also, it might be the case that minority women say there is nothing to worry about. But it would still be in error to believe that their experiences necessarily speak for everyone

Yes, they don't speak for everyone. Nobody can speak in someone's place, unless they're a hired representative. The thing is, though, this logic works both ways; just because someone has been abused in some fashion due to their skin tone or sex, doesn't automatically mean that racism and sexism is plaguing our culture at every street corner.

At its foundation, I understand the point you're making here; there are some aspects of racism and sexism in the MLP fandom, and our culture at large (the KKK still exists, after all), but the central issue folks are having with your statements is that they're very generalizing. You claim that due to very isolated incidents of harassment, the MLP fandom is covering up or even empathizing with racism and sexism by not making a huge deal out of them. Yes, these issues need to be dealt with, but as I've said; we need to be careful what qualifies as racism or sexism here. Isolated incidents of harassment don't mean that the MLP fandom is inherently sexist or racist, it means that there are a few bad apples that need to be dealt with.

[ShadowSJG 62]

17 minutes ago, The Recherche said:

You know what I was saying, though; in certain areas around the world, women can be severely punished for not wearing Hijab, for example. This doesn't apply to every area around the world, obviously, but the important part is that it still happens. Let me stay on topic, though...

If you're talking about the average schmuck who just saw a news headline, then you're absolutely right. This goes right back to what I said previously, though; nobody's circumstances are the same. The entire point I'm making here is that everyone is an individual who lives their own life, so putting someone on a pedestal simply due to a common trait they share with a victim is, frankly, ignorant.

Then that's a loaded question. You proposed the question "Why do feel, as a white person, that you're more qualified to speak on your own privilege?" We are not allowed to answer, because that would mean that we're putting ourselves in a position to speak about it. This rationale is circular and self-justifying, so you're not going to get any productive responses.

Yes, they don't speak for everyone. Nobody can speak in someone's place, unless they're a hired representative. The thing is, though, this logic works both ways; just because someone has been abused in some fashion due to their skin tone or sex, doesn't automatically mean that racism and sexism is plaguing our culture at every street corner.

At its foundation, I understand the point you're making here; there are some aspects of racism and sexism in the MLP fandom, and our culture at large (the KKK still exists, after all), but the central issue folks are having with your statements is that they're very generalizing. You claim that due to very isolated incidents of harassment, the MLP fandom is covering up or even empathizing with racism and sexism by not making a huge deal out of them. Yes, these issues need to be dealt with, but as I've said; we need to be careful what qualifies as racism or sexism here. Isolated incidents of harassment don't mean that the MLP fandom is inherently sexist or racist, it means that there are a few bad apples that need to be dealt with.

The only countries I see are Saudi and Iran and women were not severely punished. Some were arrested or others threatened. Only two countries by the way(one which follows a more extreme version of Islam but that's another topic). How much of the Middle East do you actually know? You're attitude is very similar to that of Orientalism, which is dangerous but again, another topic.

America was founded on racism. To deny it is plaguing our culture is overlooking history.

[Goat-kun 2,496]

1 hour ago, ShadowSJG said:

Ok. I responded already. But throughout history, Blacks for example, have experienced centuries of racism/discrimination. The Civl Rights movement was only 50 years ago. That stuff doesn't go away over night. Marginalized groups are more qualified to talk about this as they have experienced it first hand. It is not as discriminatory. Also, there is hypocrisy here. If I, a minority, calls out white privilige people like will use your own experiences to say it doesn't exist. And yet, you refuse to listen when minorites discuss their own issues?

Also, racism can be overlooked by outsiders. For example, the person I linked who said dropping the N word is no big deal and just noise. To a black person, it isn't.

You are another example. You are saying women cry sexism. Are you a women? No. You don't have the experience of women. Don't speak for them. People like you overlook systematic racism. For example here:

https://www.bustle.com/p/this-is-proof-that-institutional-racism-is-still-very-much-a-problem-43610

https://www.thoughtco.com/examples-of-institutional-racism-in-the-u-s-2834624

Please, enough of this this whole, "I'm racist for calling out racism" BS. It's tiresome.

 

You are not racist for calling out racists. You are racist for lumping all people of certain physical attributes into groups and forcing your own subjective attributes upon them while giving no chance for individuals to express their opinion on the matter unless they pass your purity test that is based on skin color/genitals. You know who else was doing that? Our history's favorite punching bag Adolf Hitler and his national socialists.

 

And as others have explained but I still feel like it needs to be rammed further since you refuse to provide a decent contra argument: having ancestors who were subjected to various kinds of oppression does not give any individual who shares their superficial physical attributes any more insight into the matter.

 

P.S: Citations needed in them articles. They do not support claims of systemic racism, but they are excellent pieces to make black people feel marginalized. Plus those definitions of racism only include non-whites which is racism in and of itself. Indeed, there is no such thing as reverse racism. Plain old racism describes it well enough.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,234]

Does it even matter? Things like racism exist all over the world regardless of group or social standing. It will NEVER truly go away either. Why? Because the human race sucks. The human race will sooner wipe itself out than embrace itself to the fullest. Even when we try to make things better, it overflows into another extreme, like modern feminism. Humanity is stupid and will continue to be stupid, doesn't matter if some members of a fandom are like that. 

[Aqua shine 1,898]

i don't see the problem

[honk friend 1,966]

Something weird I've noticed about this fandom is that a lot of the outspoken members of the fandom are VERY socially conservative and have no qualms with overlooking or even enabling blatant racism/sexism/LGBTphobia in the fandom, which is weird to me considering the premise of the show is overcoming differences in the name of friendship or something like that. Contrast the MLP fandom with something like the SU or Gravity Falls fandom, and it becomes pretty apparent imo. I think it's in part because the fandom originated from 4chan, and people that post there are generally pretty conservative, socially.

15 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

Does it even matter? Things like racism exist all over the world regardless of group or social standing. It will NEVER truly go away either. Why? Because the human race sucks. The human race will sooner wipe itself out than embrace itself to the fullest. Even when we try to make things better, it overflows into another extreme, like modern feminism. Humanity is stupid and will continue to be stupid, doesn't matter if some members of a fandom are like that. 

Just because it doesn't matter to you doesn't mean it doesn't matter to other people. Try telling all of this to someone who has to live with racism on a day to day basis. You're not wrong that racism will never go away, but being bitter and cynical about it does nothing but enabling it. Strife and conflict are a necessary part of human nature, because not every person is the same. Some people believe racism can be justified, and people who are victims of racism will push back, that's how the world works. The idea of writing the whole human race off as "stupid" in itself is pretty stupid if you ask me, because the reason why this very issue exists is because humans aren't stupid.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,234]

1 minute ago, Annie said:

Something weird I've noticed about this fandom is that a lot of the outspoken members of the fandom are VERY socially conservative and have no qualms with overlooking or even enabling blatant racism/sexism/LGBTphobia in the fandom, which is weird to me considering the premise of the show is overcoming differences in the name of friendship or something like that. Contrast the MLP fandom with something like the SU or Gravity Falls fandom, and it becomes pretty apparent imo. I think it's in part because the fandom originated from 4chan, and people that post there are generally pretty conservative, socially.

Just because it doesn't matter to you doesn't mean it doesn't matter to other people. Try telling all of this to someone who has to live with racism on a day to day basis. You're not wrong that racism will never go away, but being bitter and cynical about it does nothing but enabling it. Strife and conflict are a necessary part of human nature, because not every person is the same. Some people believe racism can be justified, and people who are victims of racism will push back, that's how the world works. The idea of writing the whole human race off as "stupid" in itself is pretty stupid if you ask me, because the reason why this very issue exists is because humans aren't stupid.

I meant that it doesn't matter that racist people might be in the fandom. It doesn't matter because things like racism are not a fandom issue but a human issue. An issue that will never go away. I wish there was some reality where it could go away, but it just isn't the case. 

And the human race is stupid. We have so much intellect within our species and how does a good chunk of it use it? For hating others of their own species because of skin color or whatever land mass they happen to be from. That's not exactly smart.

[honk friend 1,966]

Just now, Kyoshi said:

I meant that it doesn't matter that racist people might be in the fandom. It doesn't matter because things like racism are not a fandom issue but a human issue. An issue that will never go away. I wish there was some reality where it could go away, but it just isn't the case. 

And the human race is stupid. We have so much intellect within our species and how does a good chunk of it use it? For hating others of their own species because of skin color or whatever land mass they happen to be from. That's not exactly smart.

The thing is though, that's a REALLY broad claim and it ignores all the good we've put our minds to, like creating civilization, ending segregation, putting a man on the moon, and harnessing nuclear energy. Cynicism isn't a healthy outlook to have.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,234]

3 hours ago, Annie said:

The thing is though, that's a REALLY broad claim and it ignores all the good we've put our minds to, like creating civilization, ending segregation, putting a man on the moon, and harnessing nuclear energy. Cynicism isn't a healthy outlook to have.

We've done so much and yet after ALL OF THAT, in 2018, we are having problems with white supremacist shit heads in this country being on the rise and Trump creating hatred and division amongst everyone. We also have school shootings happening all the time and then ensues endless debates that accomplish nothing. With stuff like this going on, cynicism just comes naturally. I have a more negative view of this country than the human race overall.

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

5 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Yeah, this thread really is conforming my views.  

Okay, hon, see here’s your big problem that you repeatedly showcase in your threads. When others don’t automatically agree with you, your immediate assumption is that they are either immoral or uneducated.

You come off as an incredibly young person, so I can relate to that feeling of thinking that you know the answers to everything. I used to be like that. But people experience radically different things. And what they experience is their truth. What applies to you is not applicable to all 7.5 billion people on the planet.

I don’t remember the exact saying, but it goes something like this: “The tree that does not bend does not survive the storm.” You can hold your beliefs, but your rigidity will ruin you in the long run.

 

Also, you’ve done it twice now, so I gotta point it out. It is “confirming” your views, not “conforming” your views. I’ll assume it keeps happening because the i and o keys are right next to each other.

Edited May 27, 2018 by ShadOBabe

[Jeric 46,834]

5 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

I'll have better responses later. Gonna rest for a bit. Also you didn't really refute anything. 

She refuted the fact that she has a penis so there's that. 

 

You missed the point of my last post so I'll map it out. You assumed that someone contending that a man's opinion has as much value as a woman's opinion ... is a man. You found yourself in a debate with at least two women who think this is an inherently toxic belief. Based on your own logic, how do you reconcile the reality with your views? Would you feel that you now owe an apology to her, and consider her opinion of more value than yours? That's a curious question because based on her responses, she would not think her opinion has any greater weight or truth solely based on her sex.

In my personal opinion weight should be assigned based on thoughtfulness, clarity, experience, AND other nuances that are part of our human experience in general. I do concede that experience is absolutely important, but that isn't exclusive to sexism. I would consider the experience of a person who works in architecture to be of greater value when it comes to designing a building than myself because I don't know how to design a building. So the element that a person who has experience in sexism has a unique perspective I do not has some truth to it, but that isn't to say they can't be wrong. Taking my analogy with an architect further, not all talent, knowledge, and experience is equal. He could come to the wrong conclusion, and so could a victim of discrimination. 

Imagine people complexly.

[ShadowSJG 62]

Ok, here are my responses:

1. I think the first problem in responding to views like these isn't about racism (sexism, homophobia, etc.), it's about their way of thinking about people and society. It's not enough to talk about judging people based on merit without considering how merit gets defined and formed. It's just a terribly simplistic, superficial, ahistorical way of understanding society. Societies are complicated. So the first thing is to ask whether history matters for the present. Do we really have the same life outcomes and choices if my grandparents were millionaires and yours were poor immigrants? Does the fact that black people, for example, aren't as overtly oppressed as they were in the 50s mean that every single one of the attitudes and institutions that oppressed them have disappeared? Or that other, maybe more subtle, forms of oppression can't exist today? History matters and institutions (including things like social norms, laws and property rights, etc.) persist. If they can't accept that and apply it to their understanding of racism, I think the conversation is over.
2. Racism isn't limited to racial hatred; that's just the tip of the iceberg. It's about society being organized in ways that benefit/harm certain groups. There are social structures that aren't the result of any individual's decisions, and they can be perpetuated out of habit or unconscious beliefs. So for most people who say racism is still a problem, it's not about saying "all black people are X, all white people are Y." It's not about individual characteristics, it's about how different groups fit into society. (And different groups/identities overlap and interact in complex ways. One person can be privileged in certain ways and oppressed in others.) A disadvantaged group's place in society is determined in part by the resources available to them, the social structures they have to fit into, the social networks available to them--again, their historical circumstances.
3. It is up to individuals to say what the concrete, personal experience of those social elements feels like. Would the person you're responding to say that we should consider the slave owner's perspective alongside that of the slave? Slave owners thought racial slavery was perfectly normal and natural; they didn't see it as an abomination. We don't have (institutionalized, socially acceptable) slavery today, but couldn't there be other injustices going on that we don't see as unjust, or don't even see? The person who experiences a thing gets to decide what that thing feels like. If someone else denies that thing even exists, despite a mountain of evidence and testimony, then we're just at an impasse.
4. If the person you're responding to feels her gender has never negatively impacted her experiences or opportunities, if she can shrug off a slur yelled at her on the street, then good for her. But what about all of the documented cases in which gender does affect behavioral expectations, career opportunities, etc.? And what if that slur--not just an insult but something reflecting violence and hatred, like "fag," as she said--was yelled at her every day throughout her life? Discussions of racism, etc., call for some empathy--not in the sense of feeling sorry for someone or something, but of being able to put yourself in their shoes. If someone can't imagine someone else's experience at least a little bit, can't at least suppose their experiences are legitimate, then again, there's nothing else to say there.

Edit: re: slurs. Maybe you can just dismiss slurs and just say that someone who shouts one at you is an asshole, and leave it at that. But what if those slurs are pretty much exclusively used by members of group A against members of group B? And imagine how many B people have heard that word shouted at them as they are being attacked, beaten, killed by A people. Wouldn't that make that word especially powerful for B people? And wouldn't B people be justified in saying that A people have some responsibility for that, even if not every individual A person would necessarily use that word?

 

And also this:

but in a world where the victim gets to write the narrative of their misfortune, I could. And that's wrong, and I would say it's dangerously wrong. At least in modern countries where there is equality, I have every bit of say as any white man here.

Let me stop you right there. The assumption that victims having the power to protect themselves/redress their grievances would be "dangerous" kind of gives away the game. Dangerous for whom? The people that benefit from systemic oppression and inequality? Why is it not "dangerous" for there to be systemic oppression in the first place?

some women are extremely powerful, rich and privileged, same with some men and white people and black people,

And that is why there are always people like you who insist that isolated examples of people appearing to be unaffected by systemic oppression are somehow proof that said oppression does not exist. What you're saying here demonstrates a basic inability to reckon with the "systemic" part of the equation.

How am I the problem by saying no one is owed anything and that being a particular race or sex should play no part in who you are and that everything in someones life comes from their own effort.

You're the problem because there is no way to assert that without ignoring the amply documented history of/and ongoing injustice in society.

Experiencing the occasional racism or sexism doesn't makes them the oppressed minority like times past. In fact, I'm seeing the roles reversed, with this "reverse racism" bullshit

If "reverse racism" were the real problem, why do we see ongoing statistical disparities between white/black people in incarceration, poverty, mortality, average lifespan etc . . . either society is unfairly discriminating against those populations or those populations are inherently inferior. Either you blame the overall society (are an anti-racist) or you blame the individuals (in which case racial disparities are the result of racial inferiority). Given the recent history of blatant discrimination, and persisting patterns of discrimination (red-lining, employment discrimination etc . .) clinging to the idea that its black people's (or women's) fault is dense and basically racist/misogynist.

Your argument of people of color and women being the only group able to define racism and sexism is precisely the reason this continues to be a problem.

Yes why should the people that have historically and continually suffer from these injustices get to define them.

but in a world where the victim gets to write the narrative of their misfortune

What is this implying? That the oppressor should get to control the narrative?

At least in modern countries where there is equality,

Alright you should just stop right here I mean come on, this almost feels like bait

My biggest problem with your idea that only the victim writes the narrative is that it seems to mean you can simply ignore what everyone tells you regardless of it's merit;

Wtf is this even saying? That the accusation of racism/sexism destroys all conversation? because thats bullshit if anything it propels it. The intellectual dark web and the alt right get media coverage non stop. If someone is called racist/sexist pretty much everyone discusses what they said.

[Twiggy 2,965]

I has a question. If systemic racism is such a major problem in the United States, why would those who espouse intersectionality be so against the aims of the Alt-Right? Certainly giving them their ethnostate somewhere out of the way would drastically reduce the amount of racists in the West, which would allow progressives to consolidate power far more easily.

Serious question.

[Jeric 46,834]

4 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

What is this implying? That the oppressor should get to control the narrative?

Some lights have an on/off switch. Some have a dimmer. Your opposition seems to believe that a dimmer is the better answer.

[ShadowSJG 62]

On the side of racism being overlooked. At Everfree, the following person who has said this stuff was there(advocating for genocide)

https://twitter.com/GamebatThePony/status/872474296576131072 … … … … … https://twitter.com/GamebatThePony/status/871979728999034880 … … … … … https://twitter.com/GamebatThePony/status/871193632593788928 … … … … …

And when I informed someone about this, they said this kind of person needs cons the most and one should not shun them. Instead, be a 'friend' and just live with their differences while another said they won't say anything on this matter because this person was nice to them. Racism/advocating for genocide are not simple differences when they intend to harm others.

[ShadowSJG 62]

5 minutes ago, Harper said:

This always cracks me up with people on the far left, you point out examples to show that their crazy ideas of all women, for example, being oppressed, you show them that many are very rich, successful, powerful and independent then they turn around and say ''isolated examples'' what?  As I asked you to earlier, and you have failed to do, name one institution, company or branch of government in the western world that is systematically racist, sexist or homophobic (by the way systematic meaning they do it to ALL people of the minority they supposedly systematically oppress).

 

So what is your counter point of view, that everyone should be judged on traits such as sex, gender and race? I literally said we all should be judged by our own merits and you still can't accept that. As for the part where I state no one is owed everything that is true. Someones great grandfather was a slave, yes that is awful, it should never of happened and the people responsible were hopefully punished, but what on earth does that have to do with now. Why should people who were not alive to experience that mistreatment receive reparations or the such from people who were not alive to cause the offence, it's as dumb as saying every German who has an ancestor in the German Military or political system during WWII should pay tribute to all Jews.  Maybe you want to go back even further? Let every British person alive pay reparations to members of every country we colonised, further still?  Let every Italian pay reparations to every country the Roman colonised. Are you starting to see how dumb it is to bring up things from the past, which by the way are very important to remember, and use them as some kind of victim pedestal? 

 

Please read:

To be fair, I actually agree with you on some things. If a company, group of people or institution DOES oppress people then shame on them and it should be called, stopped and ripped down. I am not a fan of bullying, racism is the most stupid reason on earth to hate someone as is the same with homophobia and sexism.  I would consider myself a liberal by all accounts, I 100% support gay marriage, adoption and anything else under the sun for gay couples.  I think people of every race should be respected, for example, people demonise all Muslims for the acts of extremists which is totally wrong. I think both genders should be treated equally in all situations, no matter how rough or how gentle, for example if a woman punches a man she shouldn't walk away scot free.  

What you have to do is point out the individuals, organisations and systems that are oppressive individually and work towards correcting them, labelling all men as sexist, all straight cis people as homophobic or transphobic and all whites not only does not solve the problem it makes you the very thing you are trying fight.

Can you please stop putting words in my mouth. I never said all straight/white males are racist/sexist and blame them nor did I ever judge people on their color.

The thing is, issues like colonialism are still having an effect on the present. Neocolonialism for example. Also, look up Apartheid in South Africa, Congo free state aftermath and what the French did to Guinea Bisseau.

 

As for systematic, here:

https://www.vox.com/2015/4/23/8482799/systemic-racism-explained-examples

Edited May 27, 2018 by ShadowSJG

[AzureDreams 0]

I personally haven't had too much problems with those things in the fandom, although I can't really say about racism since it's not something that really affects me.

Gender however is an entirely different thing, and since I'm gender nonconforming I've had some mean things said to me over the years I've spent in this fandom. But that's also a problem with society in general, not just the mlp community. Bad jokes about attack helicopters and whatnot are always present wherever I go.

One thing I can say though, that despite not being straight I haven't run into any homophobia yet which I'm very happy about! 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Let me stop you right there. The assumption that victims having the power to protect themselves/redress their grievances would be "dangerous" kind of gives away the game. Dangerous for whom? The people that benefit from systemic oppression and inequality? Why is it not "dangerous" for there to be systemic oppression in the first place?

Dangerous for the precedent it sets that open dialogue is waysided for favoring the "empirical expertise" of someone who only has the experience of being wronged. You won't win me over by saying only black people can define racism or only women can define sexism, that's just intellectually bankrupt.

 

5 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Yes why should the people that have historically and continually suffer from these injustices get to define them.

Because it closes the door to people who may have a better solution that don't fall into your arbitrary category.

 

5 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

What is this implying? That the oppressor should get to control the narrative?

It's called due process for a reason. You're suggesting what is considered a hate crime be redefined by those it's meant to protect and you don't see a problem with that. I'm not saying oppressors get to oppress harder, I'm saying that everything supposed oppressors and presumed victims do fall into the same fair light of legal arbitration without one side having any consideration over the other based on a protected status because that is what is fair.

I can't tell if you're conflating the legitimacy of a victim's ordeal being only theirs to decide or not, but that's what it sounds like. Anyone is free to say they felt like they were marginalized because someone said something mean about them whether it had anything to do with being racist or sexist, but rules and laws aren't built on peoples' feelings. If you are wrong because you misunderstood someone then you have condemned an innocent person for no good reason.

 

5 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Alright you should just stop right here I mean come on, this almost feels like bait

Does it? Bait for what? It seemed pretty straightforward, but I can spell it out for you if I must;

Modern countries here having the meaning of a country where all protected classes having zero influence under legally and sociopolitical considerations. Meaning the fact that I am Baltic and female has absolutely no bearing on anything at all and the fact that you are presumably black and male has absolutely no bearing on anything at all whereas in other less modern countries, it might. Because that is what is just and fair.

 

5 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

Wtf is this even saying? That the accusation of racism/sexism destroys all conversation? because thats bullshit if anything it propels it. The intellectual dark web and the alt right get media coverage non stop. If someone is called racist/sexist pretty much everyone discusses what they said.

That was aimed at you for ignoring responses up until that point and parroting the same thing over and over despite having it having been addressed repeatedly. It was sarcastic.

 

 

 

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

Every group of people of any considerable size will contain within it elements of almost every human behaviour.  That element may not be a complete cross-section of society as a whole, and depending on the group in question it may have more of certain behaviours and less of others.

From everything I have seen the MLP fandom is a pretty permissive environment, and although I have seen the full spectrum of political and social views I have seen very little real hostility and very little prejudice regarding sex or race.  That isn't to say that there isn't any of course, but I don't think there is proportionally more in the fandom than then there is in society as a whole.

[Gestum 2,493]

1 hour ago, Twiggy said:

I has a question. If systemic racism is such a major problem in the United States, why would those who espouse intersectionality be so against the aims of the Alt-Right? Certainly giving them their ethnostate somewhere out of the way would drastically reduce the amount of racists in the West, which would allow progressives to consolidate power far more easily.

Serious question.

How do you think they plan their ethnostate happening? By having the noble "Übermenschen" moving from the nice cites and into a ghetto somewhere out in the desert? Or are they going to get the barbarian "untermenschen" to move out into ghettos in the desert?