Torques

Trixie was vastly mistreated, the writers have no respect for her

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Just now, Torques said:

You think its moral to drag your friends around and brainwash them. 

Drag my friends around? Yea sure. I have done the get in the car we are going somewhere lets ride no you do not have a choice. So yea I do not see an issue with that. 

As for the second part nice straw man. So for the third time now I have not seen any such episode so I cannot comment on it without context. Further I never said that other ponies should not be punished. But sometimes good people do bad things and get away with it and sometimes bad people do good things that get ignored. Just because I say I do not feel bad for the hard life of one criminal does not mean i feel that the criminals that get away without being caught should have gotten away. 

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Just now, Jedishy said:

sometimes good people do bad things and get away with it and sometimes bad people do good things that get ignored

Don't lecture me about life. This show lets terrible people get away with crimes all of the time while it punishes others for doing far less and continues to treat them without respect, I'm not turning a blind eye and I'm getting sick of your shallow responses. 

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@Torques What you are saying is one of the reasons I really enjoyed Forgotten Friendship, Trixie just wants to be seen. I really liked her character here, how she tried to keep her confidence and act together when dealing with Equestrian Magic. 

In the show I think she does deserve to have some better role. The writers there have no idea so they just write her as dumb time to time. I mean don't tell me that the way she was acting was her in "All Bottled Up". She got the idiot/rude ball so there would be a plot. I have to say other ponies of the main cast would be more annoying realistically.

And yes, Twilight and the main cast can get away with anything. Not to mention Twilight pretty much broke my immersion with the pony land and the power creep got unbearable around Season 4. I personally just like the personality of the ponies and try to ignore the grimdark indications of how the magic and fate works around there...

I love Equestria Girls a lot, because it feels like an echo from a more innocent time of the show. 

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11 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

All of what she did to hecklers was not at all excusable. Sorry but you stop the show or have them removed. You do not attack them randomly after inviting them on stage. A performer that trash talks gets trash talked that is stage life. Does not excuse attacking your audience. Because no matter how you slice it no one expects or could reasonably expect to be attacked at what amounted at that point to a talent challenge. 

you keep using law,but we know equestria doesn't really have those,its pretty much a monarchy(duarchy?i don't know) with a different treatments for the same crimes and double standards,if a stage magician should be expected to suffer the insults,doesn't one who goes on stage to snob it also be prepared and expect to be on the bad end of a trick?
(i hope you don't take any of this personal,this is a debate thread after all)

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Just now, Torques said:

Don't lecture me about life. This show lets terrible people get away with crimes all of the time while it punishes others for doing far less and continues to treat them without respect, I'm not turning a blind eye and I'm getting sick of your shallow responses. 

So a show that is partly slice of life reflects the unfairness of life? Color me shocked. Respect is earned not granted out of hand. Fairness or civility might be better terms to use. But Trixie was a big headed bully that got exposed an went on to plan to attack people and chose a tool that made it worse. Just because someone embarrassed you does not give you the ok to attack them. Just because your own lies caught up with you does not give you the right to plan revenge on someone. No matter how you slice it she committed assault  I can give you the legal definition of assault and can show how its not the same when its a friend. You see assault requires offensive contact and what is offensive coming from a stranger is not so when coming from a friend. 

Just now, Lord Valtasar said:

you keep using law,but we know equestria doesn't really have those,its pretty much a monarchy(duarchy?i don't know) with a different treatments for the same crimes and double standards,if a stage magician should be expected to suffer the insults,doesn't one who goes on stage to snob it also be prepared and expect to be on the bad end of a trick?
(i hope you don't take any of this personal,this is a debate thread after all)

I am going to take a little license and say that they have laws. Every society has laws. Different treatments for the same crime happen all the time. Criminal history, how sorry or arrogant you are in court etc all impact sentencing. Which they should. If you clearly do not give a hay about your crimes and plan another crime for revenge then its pretty different then if you just refuse to apologize etc.  As far as suffering embarrassment yes. But NOT to be assaulted. IE tied up, have your hair ruined, or be zapped when you did not touch the person yourself. If she had trash talked them back I would be citing her as an example of how to handle hecklers. Plus I feel when you come out trash talking you invite hecklers and ought to be able to handle them without touching them 

As for taking it personally, not at all. Why do you think I gave ya bro hoofs? I was trying to show no hard feelings and that I respect your arguments even if I dont agree. 

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2 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

snip

If you're not going to read or blatantly disregard my arguments and everything I spent time writing out, someone else can deal with you. Already went through literally everything in your paragraph. 

Edited by Torques
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4 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

But NOT to be assaulted. IE tied up, have your hair ruined, or be zapped when you did not touch the person yourself. If she had trash talked them back I would be citing her as an example of how to handle hecklers. Plus I feel when you come out trash talking you invite hecklers and ought to be able to handle them without touching them 

considering everything gets exagerated in cartoons to make it more entertaining and easier to understand all i can say is i just don't consider those as a big a deal as you seem to,
i ended up kinda spamming torques' post so i think i'll stop here instead of repeating the same arguments again,we just have different standards of whats acceptable there

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Just now, Torques said:

Just leave. If you're not going to read or blatantly disregard my arguments and everything I spent time writing out, someone else can deal with you. Already went through literally everything in your paragraph. 

No thanks Ill stick around. If you would like me not to respond to you anymore then ok. But just because you gave a response does not mean I have to agree with it. I have explained why its assault and not ok. You disagree which is fine. But the law in any nation would disagree with you. I have explained why its not the same when coming from friends. I have pointed out that heckling does not give you the right to attack people. The facts are that the law is on my side. The rest is subjective views. Mine is that words do not justify a physical attack nor does embarrassment. You appear to disagree. Which ok if you wish but it does not mean that your disagreement has to change my mind. Frankly its all a matter of perspective that you are taking pretty personally. 

Just now, Lord Valtasar said:

considering everything gets exagerated in cartoons to make it more entertaining and easier to understand all i can say is i just don't consider those as a big a deal as you seem to,
i ended up kinda spamming torques' post so i think i'll stop here instead of repeating the same arguments again,we just have different standards of whats acceptable there

Which is fair enough. This is about the only point I've seen so far that could possibly change my views on it. So kudos there. I have just seen enough bullies IRL to dislike a braggart that turns physically nasty when they get called to the carpet. Which is all perspective based. 

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13 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

assault and not ok

It's so annoying how you ignore Twilight assaulting her own friends with magic, how she recklessly endangered children and the town, gets forgiven with no consequences, how Dash was more than willing to assault her, and here you are complaining about Trixie when she defended her own show.

Edited by Torques
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I actually went to a stage magician show a few years ago. And when I heckled the magician with skepticism, he didn't assult me like Trixie did; he actually used the skepticism to help move the show forward into the next trick, like a professional showman should. He was a very good sport about my doubts and heckles and genuinely amazed me by the end of the show.

@Jedishy @Torques @Lord Valtasar

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Just now, Wholly Windcharger said:

I actually went to a stage magician show a few years ago. And when I heckled the magician with skepticism, he didn't assult me like Trixie did; he actually used the skepticism to help move the show forward into the next trick, like a professional showman should. He was a very good sport about my doubts and heckles and genuinely amazed me by the end of the show.

@Jedishy @Torques @Lord Valtasar

Did you go up on his stage and try outperforming him. Did you get into his face and belittle him.

Edited by Torques
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Just now, Wholly Windcharger said:

I actually went to a stage magician show a few years ago. And when I heckled the magician with skepticism, he didn't assult me like Trixie did; he actually used the skepticism to help move the show forward into the next trick, like a professional showman should. He was a very good sport about my doubts and heckles and genuinely amazed me by the end of the show.

@Jedishy @Torques @Lord Valtasar

but thats exactly the point of the episode,Trixie isn't good at what she does,she deals with it as she deals with everything else,trying to show everyone she's better than she actually is

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@Jedishy I doubt it makes sense to argue real laws in a land where might obviously makes right that also happens to be a cartoon.

Rainbow Dash wants to sabotage the weather changing process so she can hang out with her pet.
Twilight messes up the whole town with magic, because there is nothing to report about.
Pinkie Pie makes clones of herself and pretty much messes up the town then Twilight blows them up.
Rarity gets influenced by a magical artifact and messes up the town as well.
Applejack and Fluttershy are pretty much the only ones who didn't cause town wide destruction as far as I am concerned.

They didn't got anything bad for it, nor it was ever mentioned again. Even if ponies had our idiotic laws that rob the people of any sort of agency, how do you detain the bros of the immortal gods ruling the land, who are pretty much your only thing protecting you while they could easily turn you and your town into a speck of dust (twilight, glimmer etc.)

Laws only work when you can enforce them. The show is not consistent nor tries to be. The ponies operate on good feels, not soulless laws. Trixie on that regard deserves better. Hell they have Discord around, who causally causes mayhem. lol :nom:

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Just now, Lord Valtasar said:

but thats exactly the point of the episode,Trixie isn't good at what she does,she deals with it as she deals with everything else,trying to show everyone she's better than she actually is

She DID show she was better than them at what they brought forward. With magic. For her magic show.

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2 minutes ago, Torques said:

Did you go up on his stage and try outperforming him. Did you get into his face and belittle him.

Nope. It was basic skepticism. I was in the front row. It was never about me outperforming him. It's about him showing professional and good sportmanship rather than him proving he was better than everyone else. If I really was disruptive, he could easily have security toss me out.

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Just now, Torques said:

She DID show she was better than them at what they brought forward. With magic. For her magic show.

well not really.she didn't outdid their tricks,she just stoped them from performing them
we're on the same side,the difference is you defend Trixie as a person,and i defend her as a character with believable personality with actual motives(which is kinda rare to see in cartoons lately)

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Just now, Wholly Windcharger said:

Nope. It was basic skepticism. I was in the front row. It was never about me outperforming him. It's about him showing professional and good sportmanship rather than him proving he was better than everyone else. If I really was disruptive, he could easily have security toss me out.

Being a good sport means not getting into someones face and belittling them at the start of their own show, that guy probably would have taught you a lesson had you done that.

2 minutes ago, Lord Valtasar said:

well not really.she didn't outdid their tricks,she just stoped them from performing them
we're on the same side,the difference is you defend Trixie as a person,and i defend her as a character with believable personality with actual motives(which is kinda rare to see in cartoons lately)

"AJ made a point of being so much better and used some rope tricks, Trixie used rope tricks on her and put her down a peg; RD got aggressive and used her flight to control the weather, Trixie used magic to control the weather and give her a shock (the same terrible shock, mind you, that Dash uses to "terrorize" innocent bystanders in Nightmare Night, so hush you with any claims she was assaulted); RY called out her style and looks and trashed Trixie’s stage to make herself look better with magic, Trixie user her magic to trash Rarity’s mane to have her look worse. She was challenged with shows of rope use, weather control, and object transformation, and she proved she was better at those things"

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Just now, Torques said:

It's so annoying how you ignore Twilight assaulting her own friends with magic, how she recklessly endangered children and the town, gets forgiven with no consequences, and here you are complaining about Trixie when she defended her own show, and how Dash was more than willing to assault her,

So first off we are talking about one character not everyponies actions across the entire series. Secondly, for the fourth time, I will state as I did in my first post and two others I have likely not seen those episodes and thus cant respond without context when it comes to endangering kids or Twis use of magic. Third I have shown that what you do to your friends is different from how you act with strangers both morally and legally. Fourth Dash only wanted to go after her AFTER she attacked one of her friends. So I do not consider them on the same level. Wanted to hem up a bully is not the same as bullying because you got heckled for bragging. Finally and for a second time now, just because I feel Trixie got what she earned does not mean I think the others should get away with it. Saying good so and so went to jail or had bad luck does not mean that I think anyone else should get away with their own wrongs. 

 

3 minutes ago, RareGems said:

 I doubt it makes sense to argue real laws in a land where might obviously makes right that also happens to be a cartoon.

Rainbow Dash wants to sabotage the weather changing process so she can hang out with her pet.
Twilight messes up the whole town with magic, because there is nothing to report about.
Pinkie Pie makes clones of herself and pretty much messes up the town then Twilight blows them up.
Rarity gets influenced by a magical artifact and messes up the town as well.
Applejack and Fluttershy are pretty much the only ones who didn't cause town wide destruction as far as I am concerned.

They didn't got anything bad for it, nor it was ever mentioned again. Even if ponies had our idiotic laws that rob the people of any sort of agency, how do you detain the bros of the immortal gods ruling the land, who are pretty much your only thing protecting you while they could easily turn you and your town into a speck of dust (twilight, glimmer etc.)

Laws only work when you can enforce them. The show is not consistent nor tries to be. The ponies operate on good feels, not soulless laws. Trixie on that regard deserves better. Hell they have Discord around, who causally causes mayhem. lol :nom:

I said I am taking license to a degree but even so I somehow am pretty sure that attacking ponies is against the law or whatever else there is to support order in Equestria

Rainbow should have gotten in trouble but its not bullying or assault 

Did not see that episode yet so I cant comment but that still does not mean I won't think she deserves punishment. Just as I said in other post saying one person got their does not mean I support others getting away with it. 

Pinkies clones were not attacking people and those were not Pinkie so she cant be held responsible for their actions. Making the clones was not even negligent as no one could predict that outcome. As for what Twi did well eeeeeh that is covering the ethical rights of clones and whoooo that is a large topic with many factors lol 

Rarity was under the influance in that and not having seen the episode I cant comment much more 

And fair play on Discord I always thought he ought to be stone again. 

12 minutes ago, Torques said:

Did you go up on his stage and try outperforming him. Did you get into his face and belittle him.

None of that would warrant a physical attack. If I got on stage with a pogo stick to outperform him he would not be justified in kicking the stick out from under me mid-jump or tossing glue in my hair or hitting me with a taser. Which is where our disagreement stems from 

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1 minute ago, Torques said:

Being a good sport means not getting into someones face and belittling them at the start of their own show, that guy probably would have taught you a lesson had you done that.

I never got in the guy's face. He clearly knew I was saying my heckles in good wholesome fun. Like I said, he could have called security if I really was being disruptive to his show. But he knows I was being a good sport about it.

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Just now, Jedishy said:

Third I have shown that what you do to your friends is different from how you act with strangers both morally and legally.

Its not okay to drag your friends around morally or legally. You can't just drag people around because you have the ability to, and no, it was against their will.

1 minute ago, Wholly Windcharger said:

I never got in the guy's face.

I never said you did...

Edited by Torques
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3 minutes ago, Torques said:

"AJ made a point of being so much better and used some rope tricks, Trixie used rope tricks on her and put her down a peg; RD got aggressive and used her flight to control the weather, Trixie used magic to control the weather and give her a shock (the same terrible shock, mind you, that Dash uses to "terrorize" innocent bystanders in Nightmare Night, so hush you with any claims she was assaulted); RY called out her style and looks and trashed Trixie’s stage to make herself look better with magic, Trixie user her magic to trash Rarity’s mane to have her look worse. She was challenged with shows of rope use, weather control, and object transformation, and she proved she was better at those things"

i don't see how RD controling the weather is aggressive,thats what pegasi do,i never claimed assault,i just said Trixie didn't actually do a better job at it.and as you say here yourself,she made rarity look worse,not herself look better,thats what i meant when i said she didn't outdid them

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Just now, Torques said:

Its not legal to drag your friends around morally or legally. You can't just drag people around because you have the ability to, and no, it was against their will.

Yea again several problems. I likely have not seen the episode as I keep repeating, I never said one bad act excuses another. And finally you can say what about so and so all you wish but that does not excuse Trixie. Finally you can indeed drag your friends around. I have carried a buddy off of a Navy ship against his will to get him out of a funk and to have a liberty buddy. He thanked me later. So context is important. You see again what a friend does vs what a stranger does is very different. My friend that punches me while shouting merry xmas does so against my will. Most pranks are against your will. But do not fall into illegal as they do not cause offense to the degree of pressing charges. 

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Regardless, Trixie should have been more professional like the Magician I met and not humiliate her audience members like she did to A.J, Rainbow Dash, and Rarity. I love her heel-face turn in later episodes especially in Where and Back Again.

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Just now, Jedishy said:

Yea again several problems. I likely have not seen the episode as I keep repeating, I never said one bad act excuses another. And finally you can say what about so and so all you wish but that does not excuse Trixie. Finally you can indeed drag your friends around. I have carried a buddy off of a Navy ship against his will to get him out of a funk and to have a liberty buddy. He thanked me later. So context is important. You see again what a friend does vs what a stranger does is very different. My friend that punches me while shouting merry xmas does so against my will. Most pranks are against your will. But do not fall into illegal as they do not cause offense to the degree of pressing charges. 

Torques approaches it from an emotional angle, you approach it from a legalistic aspect. You two won't come to an agreement anytime soon.
Actually we don't know anything about the society of ponies because there was no world building on it. :maud: It's really just are fan theories at this point.

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I would also like to point out with regards to nightmare night Dash was scaring ponies with a thunderclap on a night dedicated to being scared in good fun. Its why Pinkie was running around screaming nightmare moon was going to eat her even though she is (a) almost the same size and (b) know's Luna is reformed and not nightmare moon. She just enjoyed being scared which is not the same as hitting somone with a lightning bolt which is what Trixie did after burrying Dash in the ground and possibly injuring her.

Of course I think I'm on ignore as none of my posts seem to have gotten a response still the point remains different circumstances.

Edited by Senko
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