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gaming Which Side Do You Prefer In Fallout: New Vegas?


Twiggy

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In anticipation of Fallout 76, I figured I would bring up one of my favorite video game debates, which has to do with it's predecessor.

Tbh I'm more of a Wildcard guy, but in order to kick it off spicy, I'll present the case for Caesar's Legion.

 

What you see in the Mojave doesn't fully represent the Legion. You see the horns of the bull, but don't even get a glimpse of the rest of it. The Legion provides Security, Order, and Peace for those not on the front lines of conquest. Within the borders of the Legion, places are safe enough that trade Caravans don't even hire bodyguards to travel. No raiders. No dangerous wildlife. You don't get this anywhere else in the world. Their entire civilization isn't built upon slavery, just their military. Slaves are a much more uncommon sight further within the Legions territory. Compared to the NCR, this is very different. In the NCR, a soldier is also a citizen when not deployed. In the Legion, soldiers are soldiers, and citizens are citizens.

Probably the best case you could make, besides them being fairly efficient in rooting out raiders and disorder, is that Caesar doesn't really intend for his Legion to remain as they are forever. If you talk to him, he goes into the philosophical implications of his war with the NCR. He says that every thesis has an antithesis. His totalitarian Legion has the democratic NCR, and when thesis and antithesis clash, they are both destroyed in their pure forms and something else is left behind, a combination of the two. And that seems to ultimately be Caesar's goal. It's all speculation after the Battle for Hoover Dam ends, but it is likely that after the Legion eventually conquers and stabilizes the former NCR, they would be forced to go through a period of liberalization, likely in the form of limited self-governance as it was in Ancient Rome. Without it, the Legion would fall apart due to being overextended. This would be the synthesis that Caesar seeks through his clash with the NCR.

In a brutal land you must be brutal to succeed. With the NCR failing due to internal corruption and Mr. House being every negative stereotype of rich people given absolute power, the Legion is likely has the greatest chance of forming a stable and secure state with long term sustainability.

full.thumb.png.26e5ba21ec23727ad7cbb9426cf21db7.png

 

Which side do you prefer and why?

 

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I am going to have to disagree. The NCR is my favored side because its a democratic republic the best form of government we have found to date. One does not need to be brutal to the common man to survive only tough on criminals and brutal on enemy soldiers as a last resort. Will it be slower and harder? Sure. Will there be issues like corruption and the like that halt progress for periods? Sure. But in the end you do not have to become a monster in order to give people a good life. 

The ends justifying the means is never going to wash. In fact I would go so far as to let Ceaser suffer the slow death that he is without stims or medx. Slavery and torture are never acceptable and those that attempt to enact it with some worming excuses are just trying to cover the taint that rots their spirit. Ceaser can speak in high terms and lofty goals all he wants but its nothing but excuses after the fact for the vile crap that he does. The best thing to do is not leave a soldier standing and take the legions territory into democratic government after they fall. 

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(edited)
10 minutes ago, Twiggy said:

In anticipation of Fallout 76, I figured I would bring up one of my favorite video game debates, which has to do with it's predecessor.

Tbh I'm more of a Wildcard guy, but in order to kick it off spicy, I'll present the case for Caesar's Legion.

 

What you see in the Mojave doesn't fully represent the Legion. You see the horns of the bull, but don't even get a glimpse of the rest of it. The Legion provides Security, Order, and Peace for those not on the front lines of conquest. Within the borders of the Legion, places are safe enough that trade Caravans don't even hire bodyguards to travel. No raiders. No dangerous wildlife. You don't get this anywhere else in the world. Their entire civilization isn't built upon slavery, just their military. Slaves are a much more uncommon sight further within the Legions territory. Compared to the NCR, this is very different. In the NCR, a soldier is also a citizen when not deployed. In the Legion, soldiers are soldiers, and citizens are citizens.

Probably the best case you could make, besides them being fairly efficient in rooting out raiders and disorder, is that Caesar doesn't really intend for his Legion to remain as they are forever. If you talk to him, he goes into the philosophical implications of his war with the NCR. He says that every thesis has an antithesis. His totalitarian Legion has the democratic NCR, and when thesis and antithesis clash, they are both destroyed in their pure forms and something else is left behind, a combination of the two. And that seems to ultimately be Caesar's goal. It's all speculation after the Battle for Hoover Dam ends, but it is likely that after the Legion eventually conquers and stabilizes the former NCR, they would be forced to go through a period of liberalization, likely in the form of limited self-governance as it was in Ancient Rome. Without it, the Legion would fall apart due to being overextended. This would be the synthesis that Caesar seeks through his clash with the NCR.

In a brutal land you must be brutal to succeed. With the NCR failing due to internal corruption and Mr. House being every negative stereotype of rich people given absolute power, the Legion is likely has the greatest chance of forming a stable and secure state with long term sustainability.

full.thumb.png.26e5ba21ec23727ad7cbb9426cf21db7.png

 

Which side do you prefer and why?

 

Un, hello, rape and pedophilia? Sorry, I could support Mr House, an independent New Vegas , or the NCR depending on my mood,  but the only good thing rapist are good for are using their remains as Halloween decorations :dry:. Oh yeah, forgot to mention these sort of stability are due to Caesar, once he dies, the Legion is the very bit hell on earth

Edited by Steve Piranha
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4 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

I am going to have to disagree. The NCR is my favored side because its a democratic republic the best form of government we have found to date. One does not need to be brutal to the common man to survive only tough on criminals and brutal on enemy soldiers as a last resort. Will it be slower and harder? Sure. Will there be issues like corruption and the like that halt progress for periods? Sure. But in the end you do not have to become a monster in order to give people a good life. 

The ends justifying the means is never going to wash. In fact I would go so far as to let Ceaser suffer the slow death that he is without stims or medx. Slavery and torture are never acceptable and those that attempt to enact it with some worming excuses are just trying to cover the taint that rots their spirit. Ceaser can speak in high terms and lofty goals all he wants but its nothing but excuses after the fact for the vile crap that he does. The best thing to do is not leave a soldier standing and take the legions territory into democratic government after they fall. 

Hell yeah, I can't figure out why most hate the NCR and pick the Legion over it. I can see why most aren't fond of Mr House, but in my opinion, the NCR beats them all overall. But it's surprising how many support the Legion, DESPITE THE BLATANT BRUTALITY, RAPES, AND THAT IT WON'T HOLD TOGETHER ONCE THAT SUB HUMAN DIES. Sorry, but the Legion do far more bad than good, and they are only good for live target practice. I think they see them as the same romanticized pirates and Viking, which is ridiculous 

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Ya know I hope this is not too much of a tangent but one thing I have always thought is that if you want to advocate for a law, government or punishment then you ought to have to enact it and/or live under it before it rolls out as a general policy. You want to have the death penalty ok fine but you have to be the one to enact any methods you want used on the first few criminals to face the punishment. You want to allow torture to get information ok you have to be the one to do it first. You want this law then you need to be subject to it taken to the most extreme logical interpretations. The reason for this is that laws and punishments get extended and modified over time. Precedents get set and things stray far far from the original idea and spirit of the law or punishment. So you should have to see that ugly side first and then tell us if you want it. 

To ask others to do that dirty work for you. To ask others who do not want the law to live under it and take its risks alongside you is not only unfair but downright wrong to ask others to do what you do not have the willingness to do yourselves. Which is why I have always found the ends justifying the means argument for creating order to be one that does not wash. Because those that say that the end result will be worth it often are not those suffering in the interim years getting there. 

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My first run I sided with the NCR, and enjoyed that faction... which is why on my second play through I sided with the Legion, and destroyed most NCR camps. Its funny how much you begin to accept the other faction once you've worked with them. I remember at first hating the Legion, then once I joined them I remember hating the invasive NCR. Though now a days I don't bother siding with either, or even house. I like doing the Wildcard ending, while keeping the Brotherhood of Steel as an ally... kinda wish they got their own ending.

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I'm going through the game for the first time and I've decided to go with the "good" guys, so therefore NCR.

From what I've seen of the game you can essentially talk Lanius out of fighting, which leads me to think perhaps both sides have Noble causes, and maybe they can eventually come to a pact and peacefully coexist.

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I didn't like any of the factions, I almost always go the Anarchist route, siding with Yes Man. To me the NCR was a bit too close to fascistic for my liking (seriously, on multiple occasions they went for martial law in places where it was TOTALLY unnecessary to control the situation) and they literally killed me several times for no reason, the Legion is a band of savages that commit all kinds of heinous acts for the sake of their ridiculous agenda (all the while wearing ridiculous clothing), and Mr. House was just a bit too greedy for me.

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On 7/19/2018 at 10:57 AM, Twiggy said:

What you see in the Mojave doesn't fully represent the Legion. You see the horns of the bull, but don't even get a glimpse of the rest of it. The Legion provides Security, Order, and Peace for those not on the front lines of conquest.

What? Where did you get this information? In New Vegas the lore is all right there in terminals and conversations. Woman are treated like objects and toys. I say toys because THEY ACTIVELY RAPE WOMEN, whether part of the Legion or not. Secondly they use child soldiers in which they orphaned. There is a line of dialogue alluding to Caesar using kids as fodder while the tougher soldiers ambush the enemy. They arent ashamed to admit they buy and sell slaves for sex or war. They boast about killing weaker people an d people just trying to survive. I think you are describing NCR, bro.

 

On 7/19/2018 at 10:57 AM, Twiggy said:

Within the borders of the Legion, places are safe enough that trade Caravans don't even hire bodyguards to travel

im sorry but here: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Caesar's_Legion  please read up on this.

Now for me, I played all sides and i gotta say whether its because of lore, or the game itself it was all just rubbish.
NCR doesnt treat you with that much respect. No matter how much you do for them, your just another boot for hire. Im sorry, I just took out a major stretegic point for your enemy and all i get is a thank you and 300 caps?

Legion....well...seeing as how i dont like rape nor the glorification of it i never cared it i was legion or just another mercenary for them.

Mr. House seemed like the best option, but then again hes basically Elon Musk with a god complex. he was too greedy and full of himself to do good in the mojave.

Going your on way is supposed to lead you to Yes Man, but I dont wanna run New Vegas.

I usually end up murdering everyone in the end cause the NCR and Legion are just crap.

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