S08:E14 - A Matter of Principals

[Ganondox 899]

Just now, Wholly Windcharger said:

I'm pretty sure those artifacts were given to the school, not taken from the countries that held on to them before.

No, you missed the fact that is was CELESTIA who gave the artifacts to the school. Maybe the countries gifted the artifacts to Celestia, but British-style plunder is my headcanon. 

[Will Guide 21,325]

13 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

No, you missed the fact that is was CELESTIA who gave the artifacts to the school. Maybe the countries gifted the artifacts to Celestia, but British-style plunder is my headcanon. 

Regardless, the Fact is they were NOT stolen. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Wholly Windcharger

[Ganondox 899]

1 hour ago, Wholly Windcharger said:

Regardless, the Fact is they were NOT stolen. 

Of course not, you can't steal from savages.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

On 7/29/2018 at 3:15 PM, VG_Addict said:

Discord isn't as powerful as we think.

He can still get sick
He can have his magic drained
He disappears if he doesn't act chaotic
His body can still be affected
 

True
Confirmed that the only reason Tirek took his magic was that he had the magic of 5 of the mane 6.
Only if he completely abandons his chaotic nature, he doesn't have to be chaotic 24/7, he just can't be completely normal.
You can destroy his body but his spirit is unkillable... this makes him weaker?

Also it has been confirmed that he wasn't hurt at all by the blast, but wanted Starlight to do it.

Discord is still a reality breaker who is as powerful as the amount of chaos around him. It's like saying Glossaryck from Star vs the forces of Evil isn't that powerful (he is nearly omnipotent) because his physical body disappeared initially when the book of spells was destroyed.


As for the episode, I seem to be in the minority, because I really enjoyed it. I guess you guys want Discord to be nice and think this was him reverting, but it wasn't, not in one episode besides Fluttershy ones has he not been a major dick to get in someone's head. It's who Discord is, if you want the entire cast of good guys to be 1 dimensional "nice people" types, than go watch an actual toddlers cartoon. The animation was great here, the comedy was on fucking point. The story was good for developing both Discord and Starlight, Spike did an amazing job in his secondary role, and we even got some great guest appearances. This is my 2nd favorite of the season so far. 93/100.

[Will Guide 21,325]

5 minutes ago, RyanMahaffe said:

True
Confirmed that the only reason Tirek took his magic was that he had the magic of 5 of the mane 6.
Only if he completely abandons his chaotic nature, he doesn't have to be chaotic 24/7, he just can't be completely normal.
You can destroy his body but his spirit is unkillable... this makes him weaker?

Also it has been confirmed that he wasn't hurt at all by the blast, but wanted Starlight to do it.

Discord is still a reality breaker who is as powerful as the amount of chaos around him. It's like saying Glossaryck from Star vs the forces of Evil isn't that powerful (he is nearly omnipotent) because his physical body disappeared initially when the book of spells was destroyed.


As for the episode, I seem to be in the minority, because I really enjoyed it. I guess you guys want Discord to be nice and think this was him reverting, but it wasn't, not in one episode besides Fluttershy ones has he not been a major dick to get in someone's head. It's who Discord is, if you want the entire cast of good guys to be 1 dimensional "nice people" types, than go watch an actual toddlers cartoon. The animation was great here, the comedy was on fucking point. The story was good for developing both Discord and Starlight, Spike did an amazing job in his secondary role, and we even got some great guest appearances. This is my 2nd favorite of the season so far. 93/100.

What's the 1st favorite of the season?

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Just now, Wholly Windcharger said:

What's the 1st favorite of the season?

As of now Surf and/or Turf. With School Daze and Horse Play neck and neck for 3rd.

[Will Guide 21,325]

Just now, RyanMahaffe said:

As of now Surf and/or Turf. With School Daze and Horse Play neck and neck for 3rd.

My most favorite this season is Molt Down for obvious reasons.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Just now, Wholly Windcharger said:

My most favorite this season is Molt Down for obvious reasons.

Molt Down was good, really enjoyed it, not sure where I would place it but it's up there.

[bwrosas 252]

From what I'm hearing from all around social media, it begs the 2 questions, 1. How powerful is Discord to manipulate the map and make it look like the Mane 6 were being called on mission by making (Glamouring) their cutie marks.  And 2. How did The Mane 6 Finally come to conclusion that Discord was behind the wild goose chase they were on?

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

1 hour ago, bwrosas said:

From what I'm hearing from all around social media, it begs the 2 questions, 1. How powerful is Discord to manipulate the map and make it look like the Mane 6 were being called on mission by making (Glamouring) their cutie marks.  And 2. How did The Mane 6 Finally come to conclusion that Discord was behind the wild goose chase they were on?

Personally like the theory my friend had where at one point there was just a troll face picture of discord.

[bwrosas 252]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 9:06 PM, gingerninja666 said:

  Hide contents

Actually, it seemed like he faked the Map situation so that he could show up and offer to help with the school (in his own presumptuous way). He only really seemed to get pissed after Starlight shot him down because she wanted to stick with Twilight's plan.

 

And he also knew that perhaps The Mane 6 wouldn't fully trust him with running or helping out at the school.  Don't be surprised if we get a call back to this episode with Discord doing jatioring duties to make up for sending the Mane 6 on a wild goose chase and after Starlight explains the reason why he did it.

[Music Chart Fan 818]

Overall, I mostly found this episode tedious and exasperating. I don't think I've ever liked this recurring concept of Discord just making other characters' lives miserable, and they just have to try and deal with it (often for almost the whole episode) until someone figures out what to do/say to make Discord stop. I would much rather have Discord be characterized more as he was in "The Break Up Break Down". Consequently, I feel like this episode just holds very little entertainment value for me. As I'll discuss below, I'm not sure what exactly Discord wants, and more importantly, how his actions in this episode would help him to achieve that. I'm also not sure that Starlight handled Discord's antics particularly well, but she might well have been in an impossible situation, and I don't know that I could come up with a plan that would definitely work better. Finally, while the episode seems to imply that Starlight and Spike were being "bad friends" by not accepting Discord's (supposed) offer to help, I don't think that they were wrong to try to stick to Twilight's plan. I would argue that they had a greater obligation and promise to Twilight (and to the rest of the Mane Six and the students) to run the school as normally as possible, as opposed to letting Discord mess with school operations and with the students.

-----

As mentioned above, one aspect of this episode that seemed rather muddled, and that I'm not clear on, is what Discord really wanted, and how his actions in this episode would have helped him to get what he wanted.

One possible thing that's suggested that Discord might have wanted is to help in running the school. However, Discord's tricking the Mane Six into leaving on a fake Map mission, then appearing next to Starlight the second that they're gone, indicates that Discord didn't just spontaneously want to help, and that it wasn't just a sheer coincidence that Discord only offered to help when the Mane Six were gone. So was Discord's plan to send the Mane Six away, then deliberately sabotage Starlight's attempts to run the school, thus driving her off and/or getting her fired by Twilight, thus opening a position for Discord to fill instead? The obvious problem with that would seem to be that essentially everyone at the school knows that it's Discord who's carrying out this sabotage. If Twilight gets back and is angry that the school hasn't been running as she asked, all Starlight has to do is tell her the truth: Discord repeatedly disrupted school activities and endangered students, and refused to stop, making normal operation of the school impossible. And Spike, the students, and even the substitute teachers could corroborate that story. And then what? Does Discord expect to say "Well, Starlight has proven not to be up to the task, as demonstrated by my own handiwork, so now you'll take me for her job instead, right?"?

Or one of the things suggested by this episode is that Discord felt "left out" by not being invited to any Friendship School events. But I can think of at least one good and simple explanation for Discord's not being invited to Friendship School events: I don't see any reason to have believed that such events would be particularly relevant to Discord, or that he would take any particular interest in them. There are plenty of the Mane Six's other friends that I don't recall seeing at any Friendship School events - the other Wonderbolts, Coco "Miss" Pommel, the Mane Six's families, etc. - so it's not as though Discord was uniquely snubbed in not being invited, and it's very probable that none of them were invited for the reasons that I mentioned. Plus, wasn't one of the lessons of "Make New Friends But Keep Discord" that friends don't have to be invited to everything that one of them does, and that friends may share some interests but not others? Discord also isn't helping his case for being invited to school events in the future by sabotaging Starlight and Spike and by terrorizing the students. Why should the Mane Eight invite Discord to future school events if he's going to do things like that?

And these don't include what seems like at least one of the reasons for Discord's actions this episode: that he just wanted to create chaos and to watch others (including his friends) struggle and suffer for his own amusement. Even when Starlight had seemed to please Discord by making him vice headmare, and Starlight said "Next time you want something, just ask for it, all right?", Discord replied "But then we'd miss out on all those delightful misadventures", indicating that "those delightful misadventures" were part of his motivation in the first place. So okay, mission accomplished in that regard. I might have hoped that he would have moved past delighting in being gratuitously cruel, but who knows.

-----

Next, looking at Starlight in this episode, it seems like she didn't handle this whole situation particularly well (at least up until the resolution), but then, I'm not sure that I can come up with a better plan for what to do under those circumstances. Starlight makes these absolute pronouncements that "I'm ready for him" and that she's going to run the school right "no matter what", and she ineffectually tells Discord that "it stops now" and "you can't keep messing up the school". But those things just seem to provoke an "Or else what?" reaction and encourage Discord to take continuing to mess up the school as a challenge. I had the thought that if Discord is enjoying disrupting normal school activities and watching everyone at the school struggling and suffering with the chaos that he's causing, then maybe Starlight could essentially cancel all school activities and declare a lockdown, or even just send the students home until the Mane Six get back. Then, maybe, if the students are just sitting in their dorm rooms or going home, then that would deprive Discord of his sadistic pleasure, and he would get bored and go do something else. As mentioned before, I would think that the Mane Six would understand if Starlight said that she did that because Discord was endangering students and making school activities impossible. The thing is, though, that if Discord is determined to make Starlight's/Spike's/the students' lives miserable, then he could do that essentially no matter where they go or what they do, given Discord's vast amount of power.

Or did Starlight have any means of contacting the Mane Six in an emergency? Could Fluttershy, and possibly more of the Mane Six, come back to try to deal with Discord? That just makes me wonder what plans are in place for emergencies. What if Ponyville, possibly including the Friendship School, is attacked by some big magical creature, or the latest villain? How would the students be kept safe in such a situation? So I don't know, when Discord seems to have the ability to do almost anything, and he's determined to disrupt the operation of the school, then I'm not sure that there's any way to really stop him.

One other thing that I'll comment on is near the end of the episode, when Starlight says to Discord "And when you offered to help, I didn't listen. I was so worried about doing things Twilight's way, I didn't stop to think about being a good friend". What is that supposed to mean? That it was necessary and/or desirable for Starlight to allow Discord to disrupt the normal operation of the school, just because he wanted to, and "being a good friend" means letting your friends do whatever they want? Wouldn't Starlight's being a good friend to Twilight (and the rest of the Mane Six) also mean doing what Twilight asked her to do and keeping her promise to do so? If Discord wants to help with running the school, then he can ask Twilight about that when she gets back. Right now, Starlight has a job that she was asked to do and that she promised to do - running the school according to Twilight's instructions. So I don't really see Starlight's and Spike's rebuffing Discord's "help" and wanting to stick to Twilight's plan as incorrect, or as their being bad friends. I see it more as fulfilling their greater obligations and promises to Twilight, the rest of the Mane Six, and the students of the school.

-----

Now here are the rest of my miscellaneous observations:

How does the entire class gasp and gawk in unison at Twilight's glowing cutie mark? From their perspective, can all of them even see it, let alone all notice it at exactly the same time? And I might suggest that Twilight's not noticing that she was being called could be a sign that it was being faked, but then, on other occasions, members of the Mane Six have failed to notice actual summons by the Map, so we can't say for sure that that was the case.

Just before the opening song, Applejack says "Do y'all know what this means? There won't be any teachers left to run the school!" and everyone, including Twilight, gasps in horror. But then, in the very next scene, Twilight says "Don't worry, everypony. I already have a seventy-point plan in place for this very situation". So why was Twilight gasping in horror before? Also, had any of the rest of the Mane Six thought about or asked about this scenario before? Was this backup plan something that's on like page 2937 of the gigantic rule book, and nobody besides Twilight has read that thing?

Wouldn't it be better for Twilight to ask who she has in mind for substitute headmare ahead of time, and get her consent and work out what she would do well before Twilight's absence, rather than cornering Starlight at the last minute and saddling her with all this responsibility and no prior preparation? Did Twilight think that Starlight might refuse if there weren't an imminent emergency?

On a similar note, wouldn't it also be better to line up potential substitute teachers ahead of time, rather than scrambling to hire them with less than a day's notice?

When Discord says "I just go to pieces", I thought of the song called "I Go To Pieces" by Peter And Gordon, which peaked at #9 on the Hot 100 in early 1965 as part of the British invasion.

If Discord were to make gravity "optional", I would expect that to mean that gravitational forces are no longer acting on objects. Where those objects go, and with what speed or acceleration, would depend on what other forces act on them. So, with that in mind, what balance of forces would cause objects to just hover within a narrow range of a few feet off the ground, rather than, say,  drifting off into the sky or bumping into other objects?

What's with Cranky's going on a power trip and having the students wait on him hand and foot? Why would he think that that's an appropriate thing to do as a substitute teacher? I just don't see any good reason for him to be acting like that.

I didn't know that Smolder breathed multicolored blue/pink/orange fire; that's kind of cool.

Finally, if Starlight's massive beam of magic was just banishing Discord from school grounds, then why did it create this big smoking crater? Was that ground also "banished" from school grounds? And how far did that beam travel, anyway? Could it have hit some ponies and/or property in Ponyville?

[Conred 274]

13 minutes ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Overall, I mostly found this episode tedious and exasperating. I don't think I've ever liked this recurring concept of Discord just making other characters' lives miserable, and they just have to try and deal with it (often for almost the whole episode) until someone figures out what to do/say to make Discord stop. I would much rather have Discord be characterized more as he was in "The Break Up Break Down".

This episode going to age really badly. Especially considering there is going to be like 2 or 3 appearances of Discord before G4 ends and they want to canonise the romantic aspect between him and Fluttershy. If they do it right away, it will make Fluttershy look  very irresponsible.

[JH24 385]

After re-watching the episode I can understand better where people are coming from regarding Discord's behavior. But even with that in mind I still enjoyed the episode. It was cleverly written and had a lot of things happening, I liked the Spike and Starlight dialogue and the students had some great moments as well. (I'm kind of surprised but at this point I'm really liking them)

Yeah, Discord was out of line, yet a part of me enjoys seeing this more "evil" and unrestrained side of him. It isn't fun if Discord gets along with everyone.

IMHO there should always be some kind of friction between Discord and some of the other characters. Everyone except for Fluttershy and Pinkie always looks nervous and uncertain when Discord makes an appearance. He's like that guy who you know is your friend but you rather not have a visit from.

Edited July 31, 2018 by JH24

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

The scene Starlight blasted Discord away is my favorite moment of Starlight because it reflects what I think in that scene. Banishing your entire body to non-existence, that level should belong to Celestia 

 

Random:

Quote

Starlight Glimmer: Uh, I know I'm not as experienced as all of you, but is banishment really the only option? I mean, it's been a long time. Maybe the Pony of Shadows is ready to talk?

When talking is useless, just use violence. That why I love you so much, Starlight, you took your lessons to heart but didn't follow it blindly. At least you gave Discord the last warning.

[Castle Bleck 19,166]

1 hour ago, Lambdadelta said:

Banishing your entire body to non-existence,

 

Pretty sure she just teleported his body somewhere else (albeit in epic fashion).

 

Hence "banishing."

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

6 hours ago, Conred said:

This episode going to age really badly. Especially considering there is going to be like 2 or 3 appearances of Discord before G4 ends and they want to canonise the romantic aspect between him and Fluttershy. If they do it right away, it will make Fluttershy look  very irresponsible.

What would make Fluttershy responsible? If she demands Discord to be a nice guy soy-god? He is a dick who at the end of the day, cares for his friends. They all know that and they can find him very frustrating but also very fun as well. He won't change and Fluttershy isn't "irresponsible" because she doesn't try to run his life. 

[gingerninja666 487]

6 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

One other thing that I'll comment on is near the end of the episode, when Starlight says to Discord "And when you offered to help, I didn't listen. I was so worried about doing things Twilight's way, I didn't stop to think about being a good friend". What is that supposed to mean?

I didn't quite take it like that. Notice Discord's reaction when Starlight says "You were feeling left out, weren't you?" He trips over himself and it seems to surprise him a little. Like he wasn't expecting her to say that. But if he was doing all this just to get her to give him the job, then her apologizing to him should've been exactly what he wanted. But he's shcoked when he actually gets it. So I don't think Discord was expecting anything out of his trolling antics. I think he really was just messing with Starlight and "testing" her the way Spike suggested. Just that his real motive for it was being left out, which he might not have been completely aware of himself.

The way I saw it, if Starlight had recognized that Discord was lonely and just said "Hey Discord. I'm in charge but maybe you can give the kids a guest lecture later on today, I'm sure they'd be excited to meet you.", then that might've been enough. Because despite him saying he wants to be in charge, that's just him being his egotistical self. What he really wanted was to be involved. But Starlight missed this because she was thinking about doing things only according to Twilight's plans, which don't include Discord. I don't think Twi would've particularly cared had she involved Discord. Because one of the things she left behind was Spike. Specifically he was to cover any issues that her plans didn't go over. So if Starlight asked Spike "Would it work if I let Discord help out?" and he said "Yes" then that's still going along with Twi's guidelines, just in a looser way.

7 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Or one of the things suggested by this episode is that Discord felt "left out" by not being invited to any Friendship School events. But I can think of at least one good and simple explanation for Discord's not being invited to Friendship School events: I don't see any reason to have believed that such events would be particularly relevant to Discord, or that he would take any particular interest in them.

The School of friendship is a bit different from Make New Friends. It was a massive collaborative effort by the whole mane cast to do good for all of Equestria. A place where all these different creatures come together. And it seems like none of them thought to involve the very different creature Discord in all this. This isn't like the Cutie map, where magic chooses who's involved. Someone at the school could've thought to bring in Discord for SOMETHING, and no one did. This isn't a case of "not all friends needing to have the same interests", this is a large percentage of his friends all doing something massively important and groundbreaking, and not involving him.

[Conred 274]

1 hour ago, RyanMahaffe said:

What would make Fluttershy responsible? If she demands Discord to be a nice guy soy-god? He is a dick who at the end of the day, cares for his friends. They all know that and they can find him very frustrating but also very fun as well. He won't change and Fluttershy isn't "irresponsible" because she doesn't try to run his life. 

Fluttershy is partly responisble for Discord being free and not stoned. If he risk the life of the kids with Bugbear and Ursa Major or cause fatal wounds, then she would need to go to prison and Discord permanently turned to stone or destroyed.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

25 minutes ago, Conred said:

Fluttershy is partly responisble for Discord being free and not stoned. If he risk the life of the kids with Bugbear and Ursa Major or cause fatal wounds, then she would need to go to prison and Discord permanently turned to stone or destroyed.

We see no proof Discord would have let them be legitimately hurt, for all we know when the bug bear actually landed an attack he would turn into bubbles, that's the thing with Discord, nothing is ever what it appears to be.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Lately, when Discord is at his best, he's a jerk with a heart of gold. Without his inherent edge, he's a completely different character in his voice. Discordant Harmony and especially The Break Up Break Down handle that side very effectively. But when he's just a jerk, he loses that dimension and becomes antagonistic just because. And that's the case here. Because he's not leading the school, he makes Starlight, established previously and here as a friend, miserable.

His worst moment, very clearly, occurs at the buckball pitch. His scheme with the bugbear put the Student Six and a few others in really grave danger. Had Starlight not scare him off, Yona would've been stung. Recall how Dash's and AJ's selfishness and recklessness nearly caused her to drown? This is no better. Had she be hurt on Twilight's grounds, then the school would be in big trouble. Starlight was absolutely justified to be angry at him, warn him, and blast him away from the school grounds after he continued his defiance. Back to him later.

Starlight and Spike continue their successful roles since Season 7. AMoP is the first episode since The Crystalling to pair them up, and you immediately see their trust and faith for one another after Twilight temporarily promotes her. He's always by her side and helped put in the work to alleviate the stress. When Discord and Starlight didn't see eye to eye, Spike was the middle man to maintain order between them and be as objective as possible.

Was Starlight justified to warn and blast him away from the school grounds? Absolutely. As headmare, it was her job to punish him. But Discord isn't like other beings; he's a god with a love to warp logic. Rather than talking to him what's wrong, Starlight chose a very drastic measure, which Spike rightfully warned would only worsen matters. Why? Because provoking him proved him right, even though he was insufferable. Therefore, he felt justified to raise more hell in the School of Friendship.

Discord has insecurities and sometimes fails to hide them. But the clues, even if subtle, are missing, because that context when Starlight spoke the episode's primary lesson is missing, too. Everywhere he showed up, Discord becomes a destructive brat, and acting like he doesn't know either her or him hurts, too. Was she right to apologize to him? Yes. But by offering him a job, the story lets him off without any level of consequence and rewards him for it. The RM6 return, nullifying the offer, but it's still an unsatisfactory resolution.

On top of that, almost all the jokes fall flat. The ones with Twilight fail, because she's flanderized: Her personality early was reduced to obsessively organizing and pre-planning everything to the point of being redundant and at Starlight's expense. Cranky constantly spitting his drinks (accidentally) at Gallus's direction while being a lazy ass regresses him. One of the only jokes to be funny is Trixie talking on her banana phone.

Despite being rather negative (and not liking it), I won't throw in reactionary hyperbole and call A Matter of Principals bad, awful, or an atrocity, because it's not. At the time of this quickieview, it's the third-worst episode of S8, but nowhere close to the badness of Non-Complete Clause and Fake It; it's watchable mediocrity.

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

On 7/30/2018 at 3:11 PM, Conred said:

Not only that but Its one of the weakest season of all time. It might be even worse than Season 6 after recent two episodes. If they mess up Spike episode, it will probably become worse than S3

I'd argue it's worse than Season 6. As much shit as people give S6, it at least had A Hearth's Warming Tail, Gauntlet of Fire and Saddle Row Review. 

On 7/30/2018 at 2:28 PM, JH24 said:

For me personally it's still around the same level of quality. There were some weaker episodes, but there were also good ones. 

 

I think Fake It Til You Make It, Non-Compete Clause, Yakity Sax and A Matter of Principals make S8 a step down from S7. And IMO, none of S8's episodes so far have even come close to being as good as Perfect Pear, A Royal Problem or Parental Glideance. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by VG_Addict

[Senko 459]

Rats blocked before I could watch it.

[bwrosas 252]

1. How powerful is Discord to manipulate the map and make it look like the Mane 6 were being called on mission by making (Glamouring) their cutie marks.

  And 2. How did The Mane 6 Finally come to conclusion that Discord was behind the wild goose chase they were on? 

Comments are Welcomed

#AMatterofPrincipals #MLPSEASON8 #MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic #StarlightGlimmer #Discord #TheMane6 
 

 

[Senko 459]

Found a copy to watch. Some fun lines in their like Starlight's reaction to Spike saying a princess for Twliight was tough enough or Trixie's confused "What is a long distance plan anyway?". Discord seems a little out of character he's chaos but he's not evil and tormenting chlidren seems counter to his development so far even if he does feel left out especially putting them in danger. I admit I thought what Starlight was going to say would be "If you don't stop this I'm going to have to tell Fluttershy all about it when she gets home."

As for your questions Browsas here's how I see it. On the one hand Discord was literally able to take away Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy's wings on a whim when he first showed up creating an illusion of glowing cutie marks and floating ones over the map would be pretty easy for him, he wouldn't even need to actually interact with the map itself just the ponies and the air above it. I find it rather telling that Twilght didn't notice her mark was glowing till the kids pointed it out when we've seen previously its not just a glow but there's physical sensation that darws the ponies attention to it e.g. Pinky Pie saying it tickles.  As for them realizing they were on a fake mission they probably figured it out when they got to where the map was showing the problem to find nothing there then when they get back to find Discord lurking around the school Twilight probably put it together.