S08:E16 - Friendship University

[Singe 2,109]

On 8/12/2018 at 9:58 PM, PacificGreen said:

I understand. I too think he also thinks he's just protecting Equestria by having a "no non-ponies attitude". I just think his racism feels like a plot point that lacks context or background, and it feels basically tacked on, just so it's clear we're supposed to hate him. As a result it kinda detracts from other (actually valid) points he raises in the premiere, because honestly, without that racism, he'd just be a generic bureaucrat.

That's a pretty sad tale with the professor though.  Sorry to hear that happened.

I just assumed it's out of fear and Twilight is making a gamble. She cannot assure him that it's fine after the start of the season.

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

On 8/15/2018 at 4:57 PM, Truffles said:

Yes, that is the other half of the equation - the costs to print a limited-run, limited-interest book would be higher than one that is meant to sell to millions of readers. I suppose the printer has to make up the cost of overhead of typesetting by charging more per copy. How everything breaks down (printing costs, profit to the author, and profit to the bookseller) for textbooks would give a clearer picture of whether the costs are justified or not.

Back to the episode: Since Flim and Flam didn't seem to use textbooks (with proper binding, etc.) it seems they could be using cheap methods to produce copies - depending on however it is unicorns produce copies of texts. The only instance I recall is Starlight duplicating the Friendship Journal, but Starlight is an advanced magic user so I can't say whether Flim and Flam have that skill to duplicate worksheets via magic. (If they can then they're REALLY ripping off their students since the cost of materials is near zero!)

Yes exactly. I don't know if Equestria has any type of copy machine but it looks like they are making a certain amount of copies of certain pages and selling them to students individually. When I was in grade school and certain English classes in college the instructors would just copy bits that they needed us to learn from rather than having us buy an entire book for one page of poems or 5 pages of text. The schools would charge a small "Tech fee" to us students so the teachers could have the copies made so perhaps some charge is reasonable but the brothers overcharged? I would guess copying a few pages would be a much easier spell than Starlight's.  That does raise the question of whether Equestria has a printing press or if copies are only made via magic since Equestria has a lot of books and is shown to have typewriters in one of the Daring Do episodes. 

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

I think I just realized that my favorite part of Flim and Flam episodes are Flim and Flam themselves. Like actual con artists, they try to sell you something you'd have to be a fool to think was bad without knowing the finer details, know how to manipulate others' feelings, and offer both legitimate and illegitimate services. Also, they always offer a high-quality song. I liked how their trick wasn't obvious from the start, even if the ponies, Starswirl and Rarity included, were pretty naive to not suspect anything fishy about having to pay for copies of lessons. However, at least Flim and Flam weren't dumb enough to fall for Twilight's disguise, like what would've happened in a lot of other badly written episodes of kid's shows, and only fell for Rarity's because they forgot who she was. I also enjoyed how they tied things back to Rarity Investigates well, and even ended the episode on a note of mystery. It is interesting to imagine the possibility of someone at the school being a spy. Maybe Cozy Glow really is a Changeling after all...

[Barnstormer 112]

Ok, I get this is a kid's show, but....

Ponies seriously can't see another pony with wings + horn and at LEAST think "HMMMM SOMETHING SEEMS OFF HERE"? >_< -_-

[Senko 459]

56 minutes ago, Barnstormer said:

Ok, I get this is a kid's show, but....

Ponies seriously can't see another pony with wings + horn and at LEAST think "HMMMM SOMETHING SEEMS OFF HERE"? >_< -_-

To be fair they didn't think something seems off they thought that's Twilight Sparkle wearing an eye patch.

[Barnstormer 112]

Just now, Senko said:

To be fair they didn't think something seems off they thought that's Twilight Sparkle wearing an eye patch.

Only Flim and Flam did. The regular ponies didn't catch it, which was my point.

[Senko 459]

4 hours ago, Barnstormer said:

Only Flim and Flam did. The regular ponies didn't catch it, which was my point.

Fair enough though I'll rewatch the episode as I don't recall the normal ponies really interacting with eye patch rather than Plainity.

[Singe 2,109]

On 8/12/2018 at 9:48 PM, Senko said:

It's the same with Neighsay he has belief non-pony = dangerous creature and he's going to bend, twist and distort the facts to match what he believes and justify his actions. Anyone who tries to convince him otherwise is (a) naive and gullable or (b) on the side of those dangerous creatures in the first place so he doesn't need to listen to them. In his own mind he's probably a hero trying to protect ponies against the dangers the inexpereinced Twilight is exposing them all to inspite of pressure from Celestia herself he carries on his noble crusade.

The thing with Neighsay is that there are some examples to support his opinions.

1. Yaks, dragons, Gilda, and changelings have shown hostility towards Equestrian kingdom and ponies in past seasons. So there is room for doubt that everything is cool between ponies and them so easily.

2. There is room for doubt to believe that having a few friends between ponies and some non-pony creatures represents the overall consensus of the entire group.

3. The Equestrian kingdom had to deal with several hostile non-pony creatures over the series.

4. Twilight has lied to Neighsay withholding details of her school teaching non-ponies and trying to hide students skipping her school. So he can doubt whatever she says to him.

5. Twilight put on a display of being unable to run her school. She didn't have control of the school and her students. Her teachers aren't actual teachers. That leaves doubt he can believe Twilight to handle what she claims after what he seen happen in the first episode. 

6. The incident with the skipping students that cause a panic which damaged the school and nearly got some ponies crushed. Hence a pony only option for safety concerns.

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Singe

[Luminance 2,181]

Twilight's "eyepatch" disguise felt like a missed opportunity for something more silly, funny or even creative. We seen her as "Future Twilight" before and of course the eyepatch is a callback to that but there's no enthusiasm in it. We know what crazy or even creative disguises the show has done before. That's not the point of the episode...I know, but Rarity and her Planity disguise is just so good, it adds much more to the episode in context. 

It's just the little moments like these, that really can make an episode stand-out a bit more an can really add to a character. 

[Senko 459]

4 hours ago, Luminance said:

Twilight's "eyepatch" disguise felt like a missed opportunity for something more silly, funny or even creative. We seen her as "Future Twilight" before and of course the eyepatch is a callback to that but there's no enthusiasm in it. We know what crazy or even creative disguises the show has done before. That's not the point of the episode...I know, but Rarity and her Planity disguise is just so good, it adds much more to the episode in context. 

It's just the little moments like these, that really can make an episode stand-out a bit more an can really add to a character. 

Maybe Rarity deliberately gave her a bad disguise because she figured everyone would recognize her due to the wings/horn and simply wanted to use her as a distraction from the plain old ordinary unicorn.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

On 8/16/2018 at 12:36 AM, Music Chart Fan said:

So, frustratingly, at the end of all of this, I still don't know for sure what exactly Twilight/the students/Star Swirl think Flim and Flam did wrong, and perhaps more importantly, why they believe that's wrong.

There are many reasons why.

1. Twilight's curriculum wasn't simply plagiarized, but pirated. She drafted her curriculum to Neighsay and the EEA body as a whole for review. No one outside of the EEA should've been able to possess a copy, edit it, and use it.
2. The charges used to profit out of her teachings were random and selective. Star Swirl bought a stash of friendship lessons for nearly free, while some no-named stallion was bankrupt for trying to buy the same. This corruption pervaded throughout the rest of the school, and it only worsened for students who were trying to head to advanced classes to complete their degree.
3. This was the kicker:

   Quote

   Rarity: Well, they have to cover expenses, and Flam insists that everything extra goes to improving the school and—

   [beat]

   Rarity: This is the scam, isn't it?

   This is why students voluntarily spent a fortune for those charged lessons and why Twilight was so upset. Flim and Flam promised to use the proceeds and profits to improve the school, when the climax revealed it to be a bold-faced lie. The funneled dough spent on the belief of good faith was used to expand their resort enterprise, while they manipulate their students with sham classes (that skip over critical details) and degrees. In short, they're committing fraud.

The Magic of Friendship should be spread, as long as it's in good will, which FU and the bros in charge weren't doing. If Flim & Flam promise to return all their defrauded loot to the students and run the school with genuine care, she'd have no issue with how they run it, including not crediting her. They didn't and lost their money, their school, and probably their reputation in the city.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[ManaMinori 4,143]

does anyone recall that back in "The Crystalling", Twilight- the Princess of Friendship told Starlight "well, I'm not one to dwell on the past, and neither should you"?

yet she does the exact opposite for Flim and Flam, in this episode. Just digging deeeeep into their past transgressions.

 

Lies, Twilight!

[PumpkinPie59 31]

Does it bother anyone else that this episode portrayed Twilight as unforgiving? And why wouldn't they reform the FlimFlam brothers? They're clearly not the worst antagonists, and MLP's reformed more malicious villains. We only have one season left.

I kinda wish Applejack was in this one. It feels a little wrong for her not to be, since they're enemies to each other.

There's really only two reasons for me to like this episode: (1) the FlimFlam brothers are in it (I love them), and (2) they sing in it (they have the best songs, and they didn't deliver in Viva Las Pegasus).

At best, I'd give it a 3/5.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,283]

Twilight was poorly written in this episode. One of the four most powerful magic users on their planet and she couldn't

(A)

Spoiler

Use magic to alter her and Rarity's appearance.

(B)

Spoiler

Teleport a photograph and camera away from Flim and Flam. (Not sure which one had camera)

 

[Allen 1,371]

Chancellor Neighsay is back since in this season premiere, he was worse than you think. Flim and Flam is back too? No way! They both are going to be rich at their organization, but Princess Twilight Sparkle says that it's a scam which means that they both tricked those ponies at Friendship U into paying more bits in advantage. I can't believe that. 

Star Swirl the Bearded is back in this episode, great!  Mainly because he's there temporarily studying but only to be stopped by Princess Twilight Sparkle and Rarity with reason that Flim and Flam is up to something. Princess Twilight Sparkle sneaks into Flim and Flam at their vault full of bits that were collected by ponies enrolled at Friendship U; and when Rarity shows up with Star Swirl, he tell both Flim and Flam to return those bits to their students where they actually belong and close down their educational organization; because the reason is they both tricked those ponies at Friendship U into paying bits and make themselves rich is actually wrong.

At the ending part, Princess Twilight Sparkle uncovered the truth that why Flim and Flam are doing that and they both returned those bits to them at last. Star Swirl thinks it's a good idea to have those ponies to be learning at the School of Friendship. I will say this episode is great with Star Swirl's appearance as what they learned about! 

[BlinkZ 1,151]

Well firsty i thought it was oddly paced i know 22 minutes isn't a lot of time but it takes till nealry the 10 minute mark till the university thing comes into play. That an hte 'conflict' i resolved in like two minutes. 

Neightsayer better have an explanation for his racist behavour outside of 'I'm evil because hte writer says I am." Because at this point, i find Tempest had more of reason then he does. and her backstory was in a pre movie comic

On 8/30/2018 at 2:09 PM, cuteycindyhoney said:

Twilight was poorly written in this episode. One of the four most powerful magic users on their planet and she couldn't

(A)

  Hide contents

Use magic to alter her and Rarity's appearance.

(B)

  Hide contents

Teleport a photograph and camera away from Flim and Flam. (Not sure which one had camera)

 

WEll i think the first part was mostly the reason for the joke to happen. and B...well yeah even i was wondeirng why she didn just use her magic ot freeze them in place an destory the blackmail. The whole plot felt clunky 

[cuteycindyhoney 13,283]

19 hours ago, BlinkZ said:

Well firsty i thought it was oddly paced i know 22 minutes isn't a lot of time but it takes till nealry the 10 minute mark till the university thing comes into play. That an hte 'conflict' i resolved in like two minutes. 

Neightsayer better have an explanation for his racist behavour outside of 'I'm evil because hte writer says I am." Because at this point, i find Tempest had more of reason then he does. and her backstory was in a pre movie comic

WEll i think the first part was mostly the reason for the joke to happen. and B...well yeah even i was wondeirng why she didn just use her magic ot freeze them in place an destory the blackmail. The whole plot felt clunky 

I agree on the plot being clunky. Even if not using magic, Rarity could have used make-up/paint to alter Twilight's cutie mark, and then simply had Twilight wear a rakishly tilted top-hat to hide her horn. Instant Pegasus, No Alicorn here! It would have been a flawless disguise. Instead, the writers went for a cheap joke that made Twilight seem like an imbecile. Really, an eye patch and a piece of paper taped over the cutie mark of one of only four princesses in their world, and Equestria's ONLY PURPLE ALICORN? This would be like me trying to disguise myself by putting on a different pair of shoes!  It made Twilight and Rarity both look STUPID! As for the incriminating photograph, Twilight didn't even need to hold Flim and Flam in her force field. Twilight could have just simply transformed the picture into an orange. She knew how to do that in season one! The whole setup made it look like Twilight is totally useless under pressure.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by cuteycindyhoney

[PacificGreen 1,163]

I've been thinking about this ep for a while...while it doesn't really do anything wrong, I can't really say I like this episode at all. It kinda makes Twilight seem unforgiving and condescending towards the idea of another friendship school (and I quote, "Who would open another friendship school?"). And I know most probably wouldn't trust Flim and Flam either, but I thought they were going to turn over a new leaf in the Las Pegasus episode? I mean, maybe, just maybe, they deserve another chance?

I'm probably just bringing in my own biases into my judgment of this episode, but this also seems kinda like a way to deflect criticism of Twilight's school from the first few episodes by making this one look bad in comparison. I mean, I doubt the writers intended it as such, but it seems to be an inadvertent side effect.

 

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

This wasn't a bad episode, but it wasn't a very well done Twilight episode, I did enjoy Rarity though and Flim and Flam were hilarious, Twilight's whole behavior though seemed really out of place for her character especially sneaking into Flim and Flam's office to read through their lesson plans. I enjoyed seeing Starswirl again and was surprised myself to see he was enrolled at the university and not Twilight's school. 9/10.

[Denim&Venöm 16,503]

I found it funny when planity revealed her disguise and Flam & Flam just when "Who?" 

Also, I think Neighsay had a different VA in this. 

[PacificGreen 1,163]

On 8/11/2018 at 1:42 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

Also, shout out to the criticism of expensive textbooks. 

I've always thought textbooks to be expensive, too, but I've sorta always chalked it up to the many factors that go into making a textbook that most students (and the population in general) aren't aware of. I mean, unless we know exactly what goes into making a textbook, who are we to judge? I know I'm sounding a bit naïve here, but that's just kinda how I am with life in general.

But hey, most likely others know about this better than me, but I personally haven't been able to find any reliable sources on this.

[qwerE 95]

I loved this episode! It was just so fun seeing Twilight and Rarity investigate. I liked the jokes too, Twilight in a obvious eyepatch disguise was quite hilarious.

Starswirl giving some respect to Twi was nice to see as well. I didn't like him much when he first appeared, but this time, he was really likable. I'm glad Twi is getting the respect she deserves from Starswirl. I felt bad for her back in S7 finale, so seeing her get friendly mails from Starswirl made me super happy.

Finally, the attitute Twi had in this episode was admirable. I loved the line where she says "My reputation isn't worth much if I won't risk it for what I think is right". It showed that she cares about teaching friendship the right way, even at the expense of her reputation. 

[Helpful Hoof 9]

In my oppion any Flim Flam episode is a best one, but did Flim and Flam KNOW Twilight was going to snoop around, I guess that makes sense, seeing ITS FLIM AND FLAM

Also they have the best songs

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Helpful Hoof

[Thrond 3,257]

Why don't Flim and Flam work in marketing? It's clearly their true calling. They know exactly how to exploit ponies' natural gullibility. They even got Rarity for a moment!

God, Neighsay is so horrible. This season didn't hold back with making him a racist jerk. 

I cannot believe Rarity would consider an eyepatch and a sticky note a sufficient disguise. Nothing she does in this episode makes sense. I guess her falling for the classes can be explained by how Flim and Flam have gamified it - which might even be a good idea - but like... she's a teacher at the rival school. Did she just sort of forget why she's here? Absurd.

Does Twilight charge for classes? I guess she would have to if the textbooks are free but that seems non-ideal of her. 

This episode is funny and lightweight but uh, yeah, Twilight was definitely jealous and trying to undermine competition. If that wasn't the case, she wouldn't have been upset at the ad. At least she was willing to do the right thing at the end. 

Why did Cozy Glow give Flim and Flam the school curriculum? Very strange. 

[King of Canterlot 9,588]

On 10/1/2018 at 8:37 PM, MLPFanatic34 said:

This wasn't a bad episode, but it wasn't a very well done Twilight episode.....Twilight's whole behavior though seemed really out of place for her character especially sneaking into Flim and Flam's office to read through their lesson plans.

I do kinda of agree with you there. I don't think this was overall a super great episode for Twilight, however, I think part of her motivation for doing what she did in the episode was because of Starswirl (a super well-respected pony) was studying at her rival's school instead of hers (imagine how much of a blow to the ego that would be). I could see how that fact alone may have influenced some of her actions in the episode, because she was desperately trying to convince ponies (specifically Starswirl) that they shouldn't study at her rival's school, but instead should come to hers because she knew that Flim and Flam were up to no good. I mean, come on, it's Flim and Flam we're talking about here. Flim and Flam's rampant dishonesty as seen throughout the entire series of course is probably another reason as to why she was so desperate to convince others that they weren't being honest about their "friendship" school. And as we know, by the end of the episode she turned out to be right. Flim and Flam's "honest" behavior was a huge red flag to Twilight from the very beginning because we inherently know that it's essentially impossible for those two to be honest. So you can see how I think Twilight's actions in the episode seemed justified and within reason for the episode.

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Does Twilight charge for classes? I guess she would have to if the textbooks are free but that seems non-ideal of her. 

Ya know, I bet she gets government money sent to her school not only from Equestria, but from all the all the other Kingdoms like the Yaks and the Griffons. Kinda like how taxes are used to fund public schools irl, I bet the citizens of the Kingdoms enrolled in the school just pay for their students fees right out tax money collected by their governments. That government money pays for their respective students fees to be at the school, including books more than likely. It's Twilight's way of keeping the school affordable to all creatures no matter their income level. 

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Why did Cozy Glow give Flim and Flam the school curriculum? Very strange.

Wasn't it to get Twilight away from the school so she had enough time to steal those magic artifacts she used in the finale and hide them in that cave? Twilight is the only pony who would have noticed them going missing around the school, so she only really needed to get Twilight out to take them. Of course, I guess this doesn't account for why Twilight didn't notice them missing when she got back from Las Pegasus, but it's the best theory I have so far.