Why do some people think Celestia and Luna are artifical alicorns?

[heavens-champion 1,893]

What is it about Luna saying that Equestria has never seen an alicorn being born that makes them think Celestia and Luna are ascended alicorns?

[Denim&Venöm 16,466]

Because it'd be a strange thing for a natural born alicorn to say? 

[Props Valroa 25,979]

I don't agree with they are artificial alicorns, but I guess some people don't like the idea of natural born alicorns. 

[Steve Piranha 28,752]

6 hours ago, heavens-champion said:

What is it about Luna saying that Equestria has never seen an alicorn being born that makes them think Celestia and Luna are ascended alicorns?

I dunno, as it could also be interpreted as no alicorns were born within Equestria's borders. A book supports this, plus I think Megan McCarthy gave the same answer when asked about it

[Ziltoid the Omniscient 286]

Isnt Shining and Cadences kid a naturally born alicorn? Flurry Heart? I dont remember the name off the top of the noggin.

[sci-fi-pony 41]

Celestia stated quite clearly: "The birth of an alicorn is something Equestria has never seen."

I've heard people try to twist that by saying Celestia was just being overly vague and that she actually meant alicorn births happened, but not in Equestria. 

But then we have Luna's line: "It's beyond even our understanding."

Why would Celestia and Luna be so completely shocked/confused by the idea of a born alicorn if it's happened before; and more specifically if they were born alicorns?

Also Celestia's line: "It appears her magic is even stronger than that of a newborn unicorn." If her younger sister was born an alicorn, wouldn't that be a better frame of reference (for instance: "Luna's magic was never that strong as newborn" or something like that) rather than acting like she had no clue what alicorn magic is like at birth.

Edited July 25, 2018 by sci-fi-pony
typo

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

5 hours ago, sci-fi-pony said:

Celestia stated quite clearly: "The birth of an alicorn is something Equestria has never seen."

I've heard people try to twist that by saying Celestia was just being overly vague and that she actually meant alicorn births happened, but not in Equestria. 

But then we have Luna's line: "It's beyond even our understanding."

Why would Celestia and Luna be so completely shocked/confused by the idea of a born alicorn if it's happened before; and more specifically if they were born alicorns?

Also Celestia's line: "It appears her magic is even stronger than that of a newborn unicorn." If her younger sister was born an alicorn, wouldn't that be a better frame of reference (for instance: "Luna's magic was never that strong as newborn" or something like that) rather than acting like she had no clue what alicorn magic is like at birth.

Just because you are born doesn't mean you understand the birthing process. It's obvious Celestia and Luna are the last of the alicorns so them not being sure how it all works makes sense.

Celestia also may have been too young to see Lunas magic go out of wack, don't forget Alicorns age very slowly. Aside from Twilight and Cadance because they are artificial.

[Snow Frostflame 3,567]

You are not born an Alicorn, you are granted the power by those capable of giving it. Which is shown in the Season 3 finale, and proven further more with Flurry Heart's first appearance when the princesses were confused to see her born an Alicorn.

 

5 hours ago, sci-fi-pony said:

Celestia stated quite clearly: "The birth of an alicorn is something Equestria has never seen."

I've heard people try to twist that by saying Celestia was just being overly vague and that she actually meant alicorn births happened, but not in Equestria. 

But then we have Luna's line: "It's beyond even our understanding."

Why would Celestia and Luna be so completely shocked/confused by the idea of a born alicorn if it's happened before; and more specifically if they were born alicorns?

Also Celestia's line: "It appears her magic is even stronger than that of a newborn unicorn." If her younger sister was born an alicorn, wouldn't that be a better frame of reference (for instance: "Luna's magic was never that strong as newborn" or something like that) rather than acting like she had no clue what alicorn magic is like at birth.

Couldn't of explained it better myself, you deserve a cookie.

 

[heavens-champion 1,893]

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 2:28 AM, Snow Frostflame said:

You are not born an Alicorn, you are granted the power by those capable of giving it. Which is shown in the Season 3 finale, and proven further more with Flurry Heart's first appearance when the princesses were confused to see her born an Alicorn.

 

Couldn't of explained it better myself, you deserve a cookie.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Does that mean Meghan Mcarthy and Amy Keating Rogers were wrong?

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

I do not see any good reason to believe that the Sisters are ascended alicorns.  I agree with @RyanMahaffe's interpretation.  The SIsters were born before Equestria was founded (remember, contrary to how they often tend to refer to it in Equestria Girls, Equestria is a country, not a universe or dimension) and are the last of a race of alicorns.  The alicorns were once a prominent race, as implied in Journal of the Two Sisters, and the single biggest mystery of the entire pony universe is where the alicorns went, what happened to them, and why the Sisters were the last until Flurry Heart.  The Journal described the Sisters as being alicorns from foalhood, long before even getting their cutie marks.  This doesn't sound like they achieved any sort of ascension to me.  Unless the show explicitly states otherwise, it seems to me that the evidence leans strongly towards them being natural born alicorns, and towards Luna simply sounding like a dingbat when Flurry was born.

Also, having the Sisters being natural born alicorns is really the only way you can square their immortality.  If they're ascended, then that means Twilight would be immortal, too, which means she'd watch all of her friends grow old and die, and I don't think that's supposed to be the case.  I could be mistaken, but I believe the writers have stated that she's not supposed to be immortal, which means that the Sisters must be different, and that variable is the natural alicorn birth.  That of course means that Flurry is immortal as well. 

[CypherHoof 26,479]

On 7/25/2018 at 7:28 AM, Snow Frostflame said:

You are not born an Alicorn, you are granted the power by those capable of giving it. Which is shown in the Season 3 finale, and proven further more with Flurry Heart's first appearance when the princesses were confused to see her born an Alicorn.
 

Couldn't of explained it better myself, you deserve a cookie.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Of course, that presumes that Twi's wings were actually given to her by Celestia - in the sequence, the magic that transforms her seems to come from her own heart, not from Celestia, so possibly while Wings are usually /earned/, they might be a natural progression for a unicorn with the potential - like a pokemon evolution - and while being born with wings is apparently unheard of, some unicorns, though guided study, may progress to that stage earlier than others.

Implicitly then, Twilight herself would not be an "artificial" alicorn, but a natural one - and so, presumably, is Cadence.

 

[Senko 459]

10 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

@RyanMahaffe

Also, having the Sisters being natural born alicorns is really the only way you can square their immortality.  If they're ascended, then that means Twilight would be immortal, too, which means she'd watch all of her friends grow old and die, and I don't think that's supposed to be the case.  I could be mistaken, but I believe the writers have stated that she's not supposed to be immortal, which means that the Sisters must be different, and that variable is the natural alicorn birth.  That of course means that Flurry is immortal as well. 

Or it could be the sisters link to the sun/moon, a "prank" played on his favorite playthings by discord, a side effect of using the elements of harmony (which would also cover Twilights friends), a comment by the shows writers to avoid fans getting upset over favorite characters dieing, a hint that they had plans to eventually make all the mane 6 Alicorns, a plan that got squashed by the higher ups to have all the mane 6 die fighting one last great battle to save Equestria. There's a  lot of other possible interpretations of out of show comments and in show character development.

I'm also on the artificial Alicorn side both because of the sisters comments when they see Flurryheart as if they were born Alicorns and never had kids but Cadence an Alicorn did then it would just come under the usual "if a pony in your fammily is X you can be X" like the cake family. Then there's the fact that Starswirl the bearded was Celestia and possibly Luna's tutor and he was definately around after Equestria was founded. Admitedly he may or may not have been around before as we don't know when he was born and grew up but it was Clover not Starswirl who was the unicorn princesses advisor. The difficulty in reconciling the idea of Celestia/Luna being around pre-Equestria (and on the flag) with a hearths warming tale of the 3 tribes finding and coming together in Equestria. Where were they then? There's a huge amount of evidence that they were not born Alicorns but ascended perhaps while very young like Cadence but nothing I can think of that would argue the other way.

10 hours ago, CypherHoof the Reblanked said:

Implicitly then, Twilight herself would not be an "artificial" alicorn, but a natural one - and so, presumably, is Cadence.

 

Cadence was apparently a Pegasus going by the books. So if you use that as a reliable source its something at least Pegasi and Unicorns can ascend too.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Senko

[RDDash 18,848]

If they are natural born that means that they forgot, that would be understandable because not many people remember their past perfectly. The second explanation is that they never wrote it down, something like the diary of two sisters would probably have the record of that.

[Senko 459]

51 minutes ago, R.D.Dash said:

If they are natural born that means that they forgot, that would be understandable because not many people remember their past perfectly. The second explanation is that they never wrote it down, something like the diary of two sisters would probably have the record of that.

Maybe but it seems unlikely that a pony being born with both wings and a unicorn horn would not have a record/lasting impression of that event especially when said pony goes on to become ruler of the entire country.