Jeric

Warning, there will likely be spoilers in the Episode discussion threads so venture in at your own peril. 

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So how was the episode?  

90 members have voted

  1. 1. So how was the episode?

    • Loved it as much Rainbow and Scoots' sisterly love for eachother! (5/5)
      41
    • Let's hang some posters of how awesome this episode was! (4/5)
      39
    • I'm thinking of a change of fanclubs (3/5)
      7
    • Bad like LD! (2/5)
      2
    • Is that why they called this episode "The Washouts", represents the washed out writing this episode had? (1/5)
      1


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1 hour ago, PacificGreen said:

Upon lots of reflection, I think you articulated what kept me from completely enjoying this episode (and believe me, I tried pretty hard to truly enjoy this episode). It wasn't bad by any means, but I do feel like it was a bit lacking in those parts you mentioned.

The episode sort of seemed to imply that Scootaloo admiring the Washouts was the wrong choice ("Teach her what's safe and what isn't, like a good role model. Then hope she makes the right decisions." "But what if she chooses them over me?"), even though there are several lines where the characters are admiring the Washouts but not painted as in the wrong. And you can't blame them because, sure, what they're doing is dangerous, but as Twilight said, that basically is their whole shtick. There's nothing inherently wrong about putting on a stunt show. It only seems to be an issue because Lightning Dust is in it. So I'm definitely glad the episode acknowledges both sides of the conflict (especially since it seems that that has been a recurring problem in the last two seasons, where there have been multiple episodes where only the main characters are acknowledged as being in the right, even though the antagonists either have a point or should reasonably have a point *coughcough FluttershyLeansIn coughcough Fame&Misfortune coughcough SchoolDaze coughcough*). At the same time, though, it kinda felt like it wasn't sure how sympathetically the Washouts should have been portrayed- like, the show is acknowledging that the Washouts are pretty legit, but at the same time Rainbow had to be in the right in the end for the episode to work. So that kinda muddied up the moral a bit.

Ironically, I actually came around to those qualities a bit on my second watch. It's clear that Rainbow's bad behaviour is supposed to be the point - because she has come to think of her relationship with Scootaloo a certain way, and because she has certain hopes for Scootaloo, she acts in ways which drive the kid away, because she's not considering others' feelings. And in turn, this pushes her towards people who don't have her best interests in mind, like Lightning Dust. I still wonder if this episode could have struck a better balance - to me, Dash's genuine concern still feels like jealousy - but the idea seems to be that Rainbow needs to learn how she can make Scootaloo feel comfortable and free in a safe environment. My only valid complaint, I think, is just that I think Rainbow was too annoying in this. It felt kinda like "Fame & Misfortune" if it was from Rumble's perspective, where you're just waiting for her to switch to the correct viewpoint. I do still think the episode's a little unfair to the Washouts, and that Dash maybe should have respected Scootaloo's freedom a little more, but I don't think either was necessary to convey this specific theme. 

Clueless as to what you thought the antagonists' good point was in "Fluttershy Leans in," though. 

1 hour ago, PacificGreen said:

That said, I don't think I'd have the episode end up any other way. Having Lightning Dust be that reckless daredevil makes more sense from a character perspective than having her just get "redeemed" in one episode.

I feel like you could have some of both. Starlight and Trixie still have problems even though they're ostensibly better people than they were before. I think reforming Lightning Dust to some extent would make her a more three-dimensional and interesting character; she's already relatively nuanced, but she's not given any chance to develop. If she's just gonna be an evil foil like she is here, then maybe I'm being selfish, but I never want to see her again. 

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6 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Clueless as to what you thought the antagonists' good point was in "Fluttershy Leans in," though

Yeah, I might have been unclear when I said this. I mean, obviously they didn't have any valid points in the episode proper, I just thought that, reasonably, they SHOULD have had some, what with being experts in their own fields and all, and it would have made a more interesting episode if they did. But they just didn't have any at all, and they were basically made into idiots in order for the plot to work. But maybe I'm just biased against that episode.

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4 hours ago, PacificGreen said:

Yeah, I might have been unclear when I said this. I mean, obviously they didn't have any valid points in the episode proper, I just thought that, reasonably, they SHOULD have had some, what with being experts in their own fields and all, and it would have made a more interesting episode if they did. But they just didn't have any at all, and they were basically made into idiots in order for the plot to work. But maybe I'm just biased against that episode.

Ahhh okay, yes, I agree. 

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11 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Ironically, I actually came around to those qualities a bit on my second watch. It's clear that Rainbow's bad behaviour is supposed to be the point - because she has come to think of her relationship with Scootaloo a certain way, and because she has certain hopes for Scootaloo, she acts in ways which drive the kid away, because she's not considering others' feelings. And in turn, this pushes her towards people who don't have her best interests in mind, like Lightning Dust. I still wonder if this episode could have struck a better balance - to me, Dash's genuine concern still feels like jealousy - but the idea seems to be that Rainbow needs to learn how she can make Scootaloo feel comfortable and free in a safe environment. My only valid complaint, I think, is just that I think Rainbow was too annoying in this. It felt kinda like "Fame & Misfortune" if it was from Rumble's perspective, where you're just waiting for her to switch to the correct viewpoint. I do still think the episode's a little unfair to the Washouts, and that Dash maybe should have respected Scootaloo's freedom a little more, but I don't think either was necessary to convey this specific theme. 

Clueless as to what you thought the antagonists' good point was in "Fluttershy Leans in," though. 

I feel like you could have some of both. Starlight and Trixie still have problems even though they're ostensibly better people than they were before. I think reforming Lightning Dust to some extent would make her a more three-dimensional and interesting character; she's already relatively nuanced, but she's not given any chance to develop. If she's just gonna be an evil foil like she is here, then maybe I'm being selfish, but I never want to see her again. 

From my read, I think the switch is supposed to be when Twilight drops the "She won't be the only one who gets hurt if that happens." line. Before that she's mostly jealous. After that line it seems to get to her a little bit, and she's mostly genuinely concerned.

When she goes to see Lightning she even says that her plan was to apologize to Scootaloo  for trying to make her stop liking the Washouts. So at that point in the story Dash was willing to at least accept the Washouts and accept that Scootaloo liked them. From there the only reason they both turn is because Lightning almost gets Scoot killed.

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1 hour ago, gingerninja666 said:

From my read, I think the switch is supposed to be when Twilight drops the "She won't be the only one who gets hurt if that happens." line. Before that she's mostly jealous. After that line it seems to get to her a little bit, and she's mostly genuinely concerned.

When she goes to see Lightning she even says that her plan was to apologize to Scootaloo  for trying to make her stop liking the Washouts. So at that point in the story Dash was willing to at least accept the Washouts and accept that Scootaloo liked them. From there the only reason they both turn is because Lightning almost gets Scoot killed.

Yeah, she becomes a lot less annoying at that point, if only because she's not tearing down posters anymore. 

Edited by AlexanderThrond

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6 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

When she goes to see Lightning she even says that her plan was to apologize to Scootaloo  for trying to make her stop liking the Washouts. So at that point in the story Dash was willing to at least accept the Washouts and accept that Scootaloo liked them. From there the only reason they both turn is because Lightning almost gets Scoot killed.

Maybe it should be said to LD's fairness that Scoot has a pretty good history of that herself. Remember how she reached RD's parents, lol?

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I did like the fact that she only starts to question firing herself up at the cloud when Sweetie suggests a whole list of other safe ways she can get up there. Still all the crusaders have a bit of a track record for wanton destruction especially if you include the comics the number of things they blow up with their attempt at fireworks is impressive and that's during one festival.

As for the episode I do think its meant to be a growing moment for both Dash and Scootallo not just one or the other. Especially with Scoot's "You mean in your wingflaps" moment talking to her and the whole sad confirmation she's starting to believe/accept she'll never fly.

Edited by Senko
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I kind of disagree with the whole older design for Scootaloo argument. I say kind of, because I do think it would have sold it more.

But, it still worked very effectively as is to sell the drama.

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I just watched the episode. (Viewing the episodes sparingly to savor them!) I love Spitfire in this. (Finally forgave her for not helping lift the water to Cloudsville)

"Through a straw!!!" That is now forever burned into my feeble brain!

 

 

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I didn't even care that I saw thumbnails, Lightning had been my fave flyer since S3 and to have her back had granted my biggest wish.....Well, other than seeing a relative for Scootaloo! Time's running out show, are you going to end with that as a big mystery to get us talking for years to come? If so, you crafty little buggers...

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