S08:E20 - The Washouts

[Will Guide 21,283]

I just got off work.  I hope one of these links has English Subtitles.

Dang. All of all the links provided are live stream that happened 2 hours ago while I was on my job.

Why must fate be cruel to me after a long day's work? WHY!

[Will Guide 21,283]

Right now, I'm ticked off that this discussion page is a land mine of spoilers and not one link on this is valid because they're all livestream that ended over an hour. This better not happen when Father Knows Beast airs because I've been waiting for a very long time and I don't anyone spoiling it except for any official promos.

[Ganondox 899]

Spoiler

So this was one of those episodes where from the synopsis I had little interest in, but the end result was something I loved. First, I kinda see this episode as parallel to Friendship U. They both have the tension between jealousy and legitimate concern, but I think it was handled much better this episode. Rainbow Dash's jealously drove Scootaloo further into harms way, even though she right that the Washouts were a bad influence on Scootaloo, the problem was in her approach. For one, tearing up all the posters was a real jerk move. The same idea was kinda present in Friendship U where Twilight sneaking in the offices nearly caused a scandal and it didn't actually help them, but then that thread kinda just died, it wasn't handled well like it was here. 

Second, I like that Scootaloo finally out right stated she can't fly. It's a small thing, but it makes a big difference as far as disability is portrayed, being so forward like that. It's shown for so long, but finally having it be told is confidently making a stand. It's also great to see her arc finally coming to a head, with Rainbow Dash not realizing how her comments where hurting Scootaloo, Lightning Dust manipulating her by playing to her disability, and then the Scootaloo fanclub being established in the end. 

Finally, I really like the way they played Lightning Dust here. She's a sociopath, but a not a one-dimensional serial killer or any of the other tropes, she's acts like a real person. I find that many people don't realize just how bad she is because they fall for her charisma, but that's just one of her sociopathic traits, along with her extreme thrill seeking behavior  and utter disregard for the well-being of others. Her relationship with both Rainbow Dash and Scootaloo were dynamic, and I found her relationship with the other Washouts to be valuable for fleshing out her character. Unlike Divot, I think the inclusion of the other Washout's was important, as it established Lightning Dust as team leader rather than as a long wolf. Finally, I'm really glad they didn't redeem her. Not because sociopaths are inherently nonredeemable (we've got Discord, who shows even less regard than she does), or because Rainbow Dash needs an eternal rival, but because it just wouldn't have been good for the story, as while Lightning Dust found herself a new gig that uses her interests in a somewhat more productive manner, she still hasn't overcome her fundamental problems. 

So yeah, surprisingly great episode.

 

1 hour ago, Will Guide said:

Right now, I'm ticked off that this discussion page is a land mine of spoilers and not one link on this is valid because they're all livestream that ended over an hour. This better not happen when Father Knows Beast airs because I've been waiting for a very long time and I don't anyone spoiling it except for any official promos.

Better to check Equestria Daily than here for those things, just be sure to hit to the stream post: https://www.equestriadaily.com/2018/08/aus-my-little-pony-season-8-episode-20.html

Right now they have an upload on some site called Yandex or something. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Ganondox

[Will Guide 21,283]

8 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

  Reveal hidden contents

So this was one of those episodes where from the synopsis I had little interest in, but the end result was something I loved. First, I kinda see this episode as parallel to Friendship U. They both have the tension between jealousy and legitimate concern, but I think it was handled much better this episode. Rainbow Dash's jealously drove Scootaloo further into harms way, even though she right that the Washouts were a bad influence on Scootaloo, the problem was in her approach. The same idea was kinda present in Friendship U where Twilight sneaking in the offices nearly caused a scandal and it didn't actually help them, but then that thread kinda just died, it wasn't handled well like it was here. 

Second, I like that Scootaloo finally out right stated she can't fly. It's a small thing, but it makes a big difference as far as disability is portrayed, being so forward like that. It's shown for so long, but finally having it be told is confidently making a stand. It's also great to see her arc finally coming to a head, with Lightning Dust manipulating her by playing to her disability, and then the Scootaloo fanclub being established in the end. 

Finally, I really like the way they played Lightning Dust here. She's a sociopath, but a not a one-dimensional serial killer or any of the other tropes, she's acts like a real person. I find that many people don't realize just how bad she is because they fall for her charisma, but that's just one of her sociopathic traits, along with her extreme thrill seeking behavior  and utter disregard for the well-being of others. Her relationship with both Rainbow Dash and Scootaloo were dynamic, and I found her relationship with the other Washouts to be valuable for fleshing out her character. Unlike Divot, I think the inclusion of the other Washout's was important, as it established Lightning Dust as team leader rather than as a long wolf. Finally, I'm really glad they didn't redeem her. Not because sociopaths are inherently nonredeemable (we've got Discord, who shows even less regard than she does), or because Rainbow Dash needs an eternal rival, but because it just wouldn't have been good for the story, as while Lightning Dust found herself a new gig that uses her interests in a somewhat more productive manner, she still hasn't overcome her fundamental problems. 

So yeah, surprisingly great episode.

 

Better to check Equestria Daily than here for those things, just be sure to hit to the stream post: https://www.equestriadaily.com/2018/08/aus-my-little-pony-season-8-episode-20.html

Right now they have an upload on some site called Yandex or something. 

Thank you for the link although I likely won't be able to post a lot on these new Early Release episodes due to circumstances beyond my control. 

Well, I'll see you guys after the episode in 20-30 minutes.

[Will Guide 21,283]

Okay, before the theme song even started,

Spoiler

 

the opening had me going

Guess I'll have to add 5 minutes just to account for my period of stunned Silence! Normally WHAM lines are for endings and midpoints, not openings

 

Okay... Act 1 here I come.

[Will Guide 21,283]

The credits haven't even finished rolling and can already list a pro that can't be taken away, no matter what negative points may appear:

Spoiler

The characters' facial reactions. That's one of the advantages of being animated.

 

[Castle Bleck 19,097]

Was anyone surprised at all to see...

...Dash's cheer-addict parents in Scootaloo's new club at the end?

[Will Guide 21,283]

Applejack mentioned Bananas. 

Well, that's another fruit to add to list of fruits that had to do with her one way or another:

She farms Apples

She was raised for a while as a fily by her Uncle and Aunt Orange in Manehatten

Her mother came from a family of Pear farmers

Took a job with Cherries in Dodge Junction S2's "The Last Roundup" (which BTW is sadly more known for the Derpy controversy than A.J.'s dilemma that the episode was supposed to be about. 

Pinkie's pancakes in S5's Castle Sweet Castle aside, A.J. is shown to have a dislike of Strawberries

She sang a line about the Crystal Empire having Crystal Berries.

What's next? Lemon or peach?

Also, as I'm watching this, I've only gotten to the point where

Spoiler

Dash is legitimately impressed and wonders who the Washouts are. So please, wait to respond 

 

[Dark Qiviut 21,942]

9 minutes ago, A.V. said:

Was anyone surprised at all to see...

 

  Hide contents

...Dash's cheer-addict parents in Scootaloo's new club at the end?

 

Spoiler

 

[Will Guide 21,283]

Spoiler

Also, I think Spitfire should have her name changed to INCOMING LARGE HAM!

Still, her point is very valid. About safety being important.

[Will Guide 21,283]

You know. I love these rare moments when 

Spoiler

Twilight gives Rainbow advice. I haven't really seen a moment like that between them since S4's Testing Testing 123. (That particular episode is Still my most relatable episode even after 4 yesrs)

The look on Twilight's face at the end of Act 2 is my look right now.

[Will Guide 21,283]

Great Ending! Now there 6 episodes left.

[Megas 26,579]

Having finally seen the episode in English:

Spoiler

This was the episode I was most looking forward to when I first read the leaks and it was well worth the wait. One of Rainbow Dash's best appearances that finally manages to use a bruised ego not just properly, but incredibly well, and it made for great drama between Scootaloo and RD, as well as Scootaloo going through a rebellious phase. However, RD's worry for Scootaloo always felt genuine, she really does care for Scootaloo and this episode continues to make them one of the best duos in the show, with RD creating the Scootaloo fan club being one of the sweetest. And lastly there's Lightning Dust, my favorite bad girl is back and she's badder than ever, she continues to be a great rival to RD and I'm glad they didn't redeem her, especially with the MLP Rogues Gallery constantly shrinking. Only thing that would bug me is if this is gonna be her last appearance(which isn't a strike against the episode), I think she's great and I would still love to see her back one more time in season 9. Lastly great small moments for supporting characters like Spitfire, Applejack and especially Twilight, with Spitfire having one of the funniest moments in the season. Also

You two, never stop being best parents

 

But for reals, a fantastic episode for RD and Scootaloo with a welcome return of LD as an antagonist.

Unless you're one of those weirdos who woobied the fuck out of Lightning Dust, there's really not much to complain about

Yeah, I kinda really loved this one

Edited August 19, 2018 by This Whomps

[ShootingStar159 2,152]

Spoiler

So, just so we’re clear, Scootaloo can’t travel to another country with only her two friends, even though it’s completely safe and friendly, but if she wants to launch herself with a rocket, there’s nothing anyone can do to stop her? I hope lawyers are well paid in Equestria because the laws there make no sense whatsoever.

So, other than that silly absurdity, the episode was pretty good. I’m not sure it’s really up to Nick’s usual standards, but the stuff the episode got right was really good.

[Sparklefan1234 159,309]

THE WASHOUTS EPISODE SPOILERS

Spoiler

• Scootaloo has a new hero?! 
• The Washouts look awesome! 
• Hello, Lightning Dust...
• Maybe, Spitfire'll talk some sense into Scootaloo. 
• Spitfire's gone bonkers!  
• The fact that nopony made a "roasted chicken" joke after seeing the stunt track is kinda disappointing. 

 

[Jeric 46,819]

The English version definitely kicked it up a notch. This is twice this season that they did a great job on presenting a nuanced portrayal of loyalty with RD, particularly where that loyalty is coming from. Both jealousy and concern can coexist and lead to the same decision and judgement, and RD acknowledging that they are both there, but that one supercedes the other is a mature presentation of this. 

Twilight was a decent addition to this episode. If I would have a criticsm, it would be the Spitfire scene could have been eliminated for more discussion between RD ans Scootaloo, and a slightly longer buildup between LD and Scootaloo in the final act. This is the meat and potatoes of this episode. Definitely a stellar outing regardless. 

Also, I called this episode theme a while ago. I should find my post about a Lightning Dust and Scootaloo episode .... might be two years old now. 

[Jeric 46,819]

Also, just to clarify something, spoiler tags are completely optional in new episode threads. I'm setting up spoiler prefixes in here and warning messages .... if you don't want to be spoiled ... it is probably a good idea to make use of a not spoiler speculation topic. 

[Lambdadelta 1,461]

My thoughts about this episode.

Spoiler

Not Nick's usual standard of comedy, his episodes are usually funnier than that but instead this episode has a lot of heart, I expected something worse. I am glad this episode is not about RD's jealousy, it about how much she cares for Scootaloo. No matter how cool the Washout's dangerous stunt (even RD admitted it's cool), it's too dangerous, not Scootaloo usual stunt with her scooter. Scootaloo admits her inability to fly and want to be a daredevil is so perfect, I hope she wont give up her dream to be a daredevil. Lightning Dust return is amazing, she is so metal, Wonderbolt is not for her, Washout is, SAFETY IS UNDERRATED. Twilight flying with RD and give her advices, it looks like a another Testing testing 1,2,3.

This ep feels like a Season 4-5 episode to me, I don't know why I feel that way. Maybe, it because the Lightning Dust return, Scootaloo's disability and her dream to be a daredevil is in my wish list for the past season then I forgot about that. 

Anyway, the episode is cool, 7/10. Scootalove!

Damn, I forgot RD's parents. It's Parental Glideance all over again. Please don't make Scootaloo a mini-RD please.

 

[RDDash 18,559]

I suppose I'll drop a spoiler review/commentery

Spoiler

No, not the washouts fan club, *Mandatory gasp of surprise. Scootalloo, you should know better that RD ears drops on your club meetings.

Careful RD you starting to sound jealous. Looks like Lightning doesn't hold grudges, that's good.

Prediction of the episode: the conflict Scootaloo is going to hurt herself because Lightning is so rad and cool and those two are going to fight.

Spitfire steals this episode because of her awesomeness.

Good pep talk from Twilight.

I don't want to say it but I guess sometimes it's best to let go of ponies, even if they are probably going to get themselves injured straight to the hospital.

Another excellent episode of awesome.

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by R.D.Dash

[Flutterzky 24,883]

@MegaSean45 I have added the episode link to the OP. Just wanted to let everyone know that they can use that to watch it now.

[StitchandMLPlover 919]

So I watched part of the leak which I usually don't do and this episode is GOOD. Link to episode is on EQD for free. 

[Lord Valtasar 12,682]

oh my, i loved it, season 8 keeps getting better and better, it totaly makes sense that Scootaloo would love the daring stuff and not care about safety(RD also loving it when she saw the actual stunts also fits perfectly), Rainbow dash being worried, but also jealous was a great combination that can't be easy to pull of,but felt genuine, and most of all, the fact that scootaloo tries to back off at the last minute makes her a real character instead of a caricature of one,
the spitfire scene was awesome but could be half the length, she just repeated herself. and if you think about it, she was supporting LDs more daring approach until RD stepped in and made a stand
RD making a scootaloo fanclub instead of being content with the return of her own shows that she cares for her more than she cares about her own image(which she still cares alot for obviously)
LD's team rocket-like exit was a bit cringy but it's much better than having her admit she was wrong and be reformed, it also keeps the door open for a reappearence which would be great
a solid ten,and i hope to see the other CMC rebel aswel in future episodes, it would make for interesting character developement(applebloom getting sick of eating apples and go for banans is something i totally want to see)

[Toastypk 919]

Spoiler

 

I wasn't intending to see this immediately, and wait for the US version.
But people post things on youtube, and they have thumbnails.
And in the thumbnail I saw was LIGHTNING!
I had a guess that based on the episode name and premise, she would be in it.
And she is!

...Although I'm bummed that I didn't get to see it first in the actual episode, there's no way I could wait for three weeks in anticipation, so this time only, I decided to watch it ahead, especially since the episode on the 25th is a repeat of the one they aired already.

It's so good!

The relationship with Dash and Scootaloo, the attitudes, the interactions.
Freaking Lightning!
Short fuse is funny too.

The one thing I'm not a fan of isn't neccesarily because of the episode, it's that while looking at images of the episode on Derpibooru, people, especially a gigantic LD fan, particularly hate this episode, specifically cause they say it made Lightning into a more exaggerated villainous version of herself instead of redeeming her like they wanted to see happen. Instead, more set in her attitude. Maybe in a third episode she pushes it too hard and gets hurt herself, and that's when she comes to, but I like her in this. Not outright antagonistic, but clear that she is not a good influence.  What do you think? Is that looking at it too hard? Should I not care about others getting upset?

Really, the thing that makes her a bad guy is her not giving a crap about the well being of other ponies. She may not be a shadow demon or anything, but it’s clear she’s a bad influence that started around Wonderbolts Academy, then just cemented itself. Different from a being of darkness or anything, but dangerous in her own way. Lighning is a glimpse into what Rainbow Dash could have become if she didn't have her moral sense.And Dash’s relationship with Scootaloo was the thing that made it more personal for her too. Good episode IMO.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Toastypk

[Dark Qiviut 21,942]

On 8/16/2018 at 11:14 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Well, I got through the episode; thank the translated subtitles. Comments under the tag:

  Reveal hidden contents

It's got some good and bad.

Scootaloo's insecurity, hinted in Surf, comes into play and directly stated. She feels more welcome by The Washouts not just for their insane, death-defying stunts, but also for their supposed inclusiveness for pegasi who can't fly. (More on that in a bit.) Her insecurity over not being able to live up to Dash isn't just explored, but her disability's outright stated.

Because of her insecurity, she doesn't take Dash's or Spitfire's "tough love" well at all. In fact, their bluntness and Dash's imposing nature — including by telling her to dump the Washout memorabilia — made her more defiant and drove her to join Dust's group. But the tension didn't start there.

This was the most tense that Scoot and RD were to each other since their friendship began back in Sleepless in Ponyville. She defends The Wonderbolts, who she's a part of, for their focus on inclusiveness and record of high-quality fliers. Dust's counter of creating The Washouts to give anyone an opportunity was a major pro for Scootaloo. Take a look at her in the background throughout that shot; she went from disappointed to sad to hopeful instantly and then admiration.

TW marks Dust's first primary episode since WA, and her selfishness and recklessness is driven here to the point of creating her own daredevil group. But in WA, her recklessness initially was subtle and became more and more upfront as it progressed. Yet, like before, she proves to be Dash without morals, given her selfishness towards others' security, worries, and feelings. Not being part of the Wonderbolts was partly free to her, but throughout, it's easy to see how her expulsion from the Wonderbolts drove her into this occupation and opportunity to one them up. Everything about the Washouts, from the stunts to the ponies in them, is a complete antithesis of the standards and practices the Wonderbolts established long ago.

But if there's one thing about Dust's antagonism that could do better, it's the subtlety. Dust's own words to begin Act 2 make it really clear how she has no desire for anyone's safety, as long as it brings plots into their seats. Dash catches that, but Scootaloo, in her own naivete, doesn't, and being this upfront only makes LD less clever.

In addition to lack of cleverness, there's literally no point for Rolling Thunder or Short Fuse to be there. Their own purposes is to have one of them subtracted in order for Scootaloo to take her spot while she recovers. Aside from cameos, they contribute nothing into the story and can be written out. On top of that, they're some of the blandest and flattest characters of the season with no personality beyond expository defiance and a gag to complement their names.

I'm also very familiar with this story structure going back to the likes of TailSpin's "Stormy Weather." Differences include Kit's want for wealth over Scoot's wish for equality among her peers. However, while the differences give it an FIM flare, the plot itself is too bland. The twists are too small in scale and don't stand out from making the plot so standard and safe.

Maybe I'll come back with fresher eyes later; the English version will debut in a couple of days. And I refuse to call this episode bad, because it's not. The Washouts is competently written and has its strengths. That said, right now, this is S8's most disappointing episode.

 

Believing I was unfair towards it, I decided to give it a second chance. After watching it in English, I'm so glad I did, because like A Health of Information before, it's much, much better than I originally thought, and here, there's a great deal of nuance.

The first that comes to mind is Lightning Dust's secret.

Here's the French fandub:

Quote

Dust: We systematically disregard all that the Wonderbolts have taught us in terms of safety.

And the English version:

Quote

Dust: We basically ignore everything the Wonderbolts ever taught us about safety.

"Systematically" for "basically," and "disregard" for "ignore." In the French dub, Dust implicates that she, RT, and SF spit at all the Wonderbolts' rules and regulations. Here, Lightning Dust treats the Washout concept as a small group of rebels coming together for one greater goal. This makes Dust's ambitions less untrustworthy and more fruitful, especially after Dash describes the 'Bolts's goal of training the best fliers.

Like I wrote in my earlier review, pay close attention to Scoot's face and posture as Dust describes her goal of the Washouts. When she claims she founded the group so anypony can be the best of the best, Scootaloo went from discouraged to hopeful instantaneously. Well-done visual storytelling foreshadows the rest of the upcoming conflict. In the French dub, her admiration comes across as very naïve, but in the original, it's more balanced and easier to see why Scootaloo didn't buy into her mentor's hearsay.

Rolling Thunder and Short Fuse are still flat, but are they filler? Not at all. Just as Dust is Dash's foil, they're Scoot's. What if they're protégés or second-in-command for someone without the care for safety standards? Unlike Dash and Scoot, none of the three view each other beyond the colleague level. In short, they're not friends, but bonded due to an equal purpose, all of which makes Fuse and Thunder's purpose much more nuanced than I claimed. Secondly, Thunder showed visible pain following the show, refusing to put any weight on her back leg throughout the scene.

(BTW, Short Fuse was one of the fliers in Top Bolt. Great subtle use of continuity. )

And about my comment about this episode being too similar to TailSpin's "Stormy Weather" and too bland to truly stand out? Three words, DQ:

Quote

"You're objectively wrong."

We watch The Washouts in the perspectives of both Dash and Scoot, more so the former. Dash's wide range of traits are on display here, most notably envy and concern. Each of her traits reached one clear conclusion: She wants Scootaloo safe. Despite her jealousy and bruised ego, she refuses to put them above Scootaloo, which helps the audience take her worries seriously and see her as someone who truly cares for Scoot. Simultaneously, this bilateral conclusion led her to a really bad decision: make Spitfire deliver her "tough love." Not only did it fail, but it fractured their friendship even more by making Scootaloo further believe that Dash is only concerned for her fan club, hence her sarcastic responses. It doesn't help when she treated Scootaloo as a future Wonderbolt and placed a hard focus on dumping the Washout paraphernalia, making her wonder if Dash truly values her as a friend and surrogate sister after all.

The moment that truly sealed the episode's status is its subtle focus on Scootaloo's disability. Starting small, it never shies about why she became enamored with them. Yes, they just looked cooler and more interesting, but Dust's logic invited a deeper motive. Scootaloo's boredom at the academy and sarcastic phrases and faces only enhance how she feels about her status, including her sadness after Dash retreated to the CMC Clubhouse. Flight to the Finish explored her inability to fly and how her insecurities caused friction between her, Apple Bloom, and Sweetie Belle, yet left her fate open-ended. The Washouts not only addressed her disability outright, but finalized it, as well. She can't fly, and not being able to become a Wonderbolt hurt, because she can't. But The Washouts gave her an opportunity to use her strengths to her advantage.

At this point, Lightning Dust sinks to a new low that even some villains won't cross. Dust doesn't give two shits about her safety and security. Only when plots fill the bleachers. She knew Scootaloo can't fly, so when she activates that switch, she must hold on for dear life. Scootaloo was nothing more than a vessel to help sell out her show.

The moral is right on the money. Scootaloo was rebellious, but it's up to her and her alone to choose her own path. Dash can guide her and help save her when she needs it, but also can't push their own insecurities and envy onto them. To echo @Jeric, the episode was blunt in its presentation and execution of the moral, and Dash learned a valuable lesson as a result. The final scene where she founded the Scootaloo Fan Club, with Dash's own parents leading the cheers, is a sweet moment with a dash of continuity.

When Nick Confalone writes a serious episode, he usually stumbles here and there, sometimes massively. But here, he puts in a lot of effort getting the plot just right and took care of the subtle details to give The Washouts its shape and remove its unfortunate implications. Altogether, this great episode improves with every rewatch, either fully or partial.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Ganondox 899]

28 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

The moment that truly sealed the episode's status is its subtle focus on Scootaloo's disability. Starting small, it never shies about why she became enamored with them. Yes, they just looked cooler and more interesting, but Dust's logic invited a deeper motive. Scootaloo's boredom at the academy and sarcastic phrases and faces only enhance how she feels about her status, including her sadness after Dash retreated to the CMC Clubhouse. Flight to the Finish explored her inability to fly and how her insecurities caused friction between her, Apple Bloom, and Sweetie Belle, yet left her fate open-ended. The Washouts not only addressed her disability outright, but finalized it, as well. She can't fly, and not being able to become a Wonderbolt hurt, because she can't. But The Washouts gave her an opportunity to use her strengths to her advantage.

Adding on to this, there was a specific line of dialogue which I found to be brilliant in retrospect: 

Quote

Rainbow Dash: Uh... Heh. Sorry that was a little... intense. I just wanna make sure you don't get hurt. That way, you can follow in my hoofsteps. Heh. Everypony's dream, right?

Scootaloo: More like "follow your wingflaps".

Rainbow Dash: Same difference.

Scootaloo: [sarcastically] Thanks, super-talented flyer, for clearing up what I should do.

On first listen, Scootaloo appeared to just be snarky. But once you remember Scootaloo can't fly, the real intention of "follow your wingflaps" becomes clear. Rainbow Dash thinks it's the same thing, but it's not, because while Scootaloo can walk, she can't fly. She can't follow in Rainbow Dash's footsteps, regardless of what she wants. Finally, Rainbow Dash's response highlights how oblivious she is.