Nightmare Muffin

Spoiler Twilight is a horrible Princess of Friendship

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1 hour ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

The fact that Twilight tried to monopolize the school is evident.

46 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

Monopolizing friendship at its best.

Wrong. She has zero issues with another friendship school that is just as good as hers, if not better, as long as it's run sincerely. Even after catching Flim & Flam scamming their students, she gave them another opportunity to keep it open (and use her curriculum without permission) as long as they return their money. They refused and paid the price.

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14 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Wrong. She has zero issues with another friendship school that is just as good as hers, if not better, as long as it's run sincerely. Even after catching Flim & Flam scamming their students, she gave them another opportunity to keep it open (and use her curriculum without permission) as long as they return their money. They refused and paid the price.

That's what it seems after the resolution, but her initial motives to check out the Friendship University do seem to be closer to corporate jealousy than to making sure it was a legitimate institution.

Once Flim and Flam show up, Twilight's motive is refocused to the school's legitimacy because of their known past scams.

Edited by DonMaguz
Forgot to quote.

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1 hour ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

She still continues to hold grudges with ponies who set her off in the past.

This is starting to become a King of the Hill topic. You realize when these start to feel that way, the clock starts ticking on these topics. This schtick is getting old NM. Diversification is magic. 

 

Some points you missed. 

Twilight has indirect knowledge of Flim and Flam after their initial appearance they didn't exactly set her off. 

She entertained the suggestion that she may be jealous, and that they may have turned over a new leaf. Rarity suggested that her instincts may be correct during a pep talk. Guess what, they were. Part of relationships and friendships is being able yo read people. 

You can't lay a foundation on sand with the antagonists like these. Flim a s Flam may not have entered the attempted manslaughter territory seen in their prior outing, but from go they did not portray themselves as completely upstanding. They acted like pretentious arrogant presumptuous shit weasels. If this was the real world I'd be passing judgment too. Friendship fails if one party is too naive. Something that Twilight has grown out of. If she didn't suspect these guys were up to no good, I'd be calling bullshit on her judgement. 

 

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Well, it's your opinion that she's a horrible princess. My opinion is that she's not perfect and makes lots of mistakes that also adds a moral to the end of the episode... Just have a nice, juicy cake to cheer up!

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I haven't seen the movie or the new episodes but I'd say that as far as I seen her role as a princess was so well established that I don't think It can be so easily reversed.

Usually the mistakes we make only make us stronger and I think the same applies for twilights character. Also I think mistakes are pretty much unavoidable as the more emotionally invested you are into something usually the judgement become less logical and I think that is one important lesson for twilight here as her judgement carries some weight as a princess so she needs to be able to cope with her emotional side in order to grow and move forward.

So id say that whatever she did it only made her a better princess in the long run  

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3 hours ago, Will Guide said:

@Nightmare Muffin, this message is to you.

 

@TheTaZe, @BasementSparkle, @Dark Qiviut

These 3 members bring up good defending points for why Twilight is not a horrible Princess.

Also, just because she's a princess doesn't mean she has to be flawless.

Shall I bring that awesome song back out? 

 

I certainly never said that she couldn't have flaws and had to be perfect. But the thing is- we work on them to better ourselves. Twi hasn't been doing that, from what I've seen.  All I'm saying that it would be nice- as the background ponies in "Friendship University" even pointed out, was if The Princess of Friendship was more friendly and trusting of others- her fiends, and ponies who may have screwed over her friends in the past.

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2 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

I certainly never said that she couldn't have flaws and had to be perfect. But the thing is- we work on them to better ourselves. Twi hasn't been doing that, from what I've seen.  All I'm saying that it would be nice- as the background ponies in "Friendship University" even pointed out, was if The Princess of Friendship was more friendly and trusting of others- her fiends, and ponies who may have screwed over her friends in the past.

I want to point out that this isn't a one off situation. Over and over again she and her friends have seen that Flim and Flam don't change and that they manipulate or scam ponies for their own benefits (sweet apple acres, miracle tonic, siege of the crystal empire, Las pegasus and now this). Twilight gives ponies a chance if they cross her or her friends Starlight, Trixie, Discord, Tempest. However there's only so many times you can allow someone a chance to prove they've changed before it goes from friendship/second chances to foolishness. Take the redeem discord episode even Fluttershy element of kindness tells him outright that thanks to his actions she is "NOT YOUR FRIEND". Flim and Flam have consistently shown not only that they can't be trusted but that they don't want to change their ways. At this stage if she didn't suspect them she'd be a fool.

Also you're really twisting Twilight's initial reaction to the situation. She gets a STACK of advertisments for another friendship school delivered to her campus that don't just advertise the other school but put hers down "Why waste your time at a friendship school that's just a school." Also her only reaction beyond shock is "Who else would even open a friendship school." its actually Rarity who pushes her to investigate it and critcises the school when they see it. Twilight's just shocked and a little bewildered which isn't that odd considering the circumstances and how difficult it was for her to open her school. I mean all else aside if I were the headmare of a school and someone delivered a pile of advertisments for another school to my campus I'd be annoyed and suspicious friendship or not.

Edited by Senko
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13 hours ago, Senko said:

I mean all else aside if I were the headmare of a school and someone delivered a pile of advertisments for another school to my campus I'd be annoyed and suspicious friendship or not.

This is precisely what I think raises the question.

Who comes first: 'Twilight Sparkle, the Princess of Friendship' or 'Twilight Sparkle, the Headmare of the School of Friendship'?

She has previously shown to dive so much into a role, activity or guidelines that she forgets her initial goal, is that what happened in this case?

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There is one thing I've noticed of Twilight this season. She's kinda been deluding herself of her work/effort/progress being solid, when it's pretty flimsy where it doesn't take much throw a monkey wrench in it.

Edited by Singe
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On 8/12/2018 at 3:48 PM, Jeric said:

You are certainly a bundle of fun these days @Nightmare Muffin. Might I suggest a ice cream sundae to turn that sour disposition around. Couldn't hurt. 

 

I actually love the things that you mentioned as being cringey (which is a horribly overused word that needs to be shot into the sun ... thank you internet for zombication of the under twenty-something's vernacular). To each their own. These ponies fucking up each week is what makes them fun to watch. Especially when you see this happen in real life often enough to be able to point out specifics in people you know (and if you are lucky ... yourself). 

Pretty much this, good grief Nightmare Muffin. I'm getting really worn out just from seeing this kind of topic over and over and over;

"Here's something else that's bad about FiM."

"This season is terrible because of this random misnomer."

"You know that favorite character of yours? Here's why they're bad."

"I am trying as hard as I possibly can to learn absolutely nothing from a show about friendship."
 

-etc etc. I haven't been out to try and highlight flaws in every character of the show so I've been able to enjoy this season- it's very different and there's a lot going on with a ton of new characters compared to previous seasons so representation is spread thin, but that's really all I've had to complain about. Twilight is filling a lot of roles atm and I'm only going to judge her character if the role she's filling in the episode specifically misses its mark in terms of the episode's context instead of intentionally trying to sabotage their characters for myself by highlighting every flaw I can find and making a negative forum topic of it.

 

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On 8/12/2018 at 7:05 PM, DonMaguz said:

I wouldn't say 'horrible', but she definitely has a long way to go as Princess of Friendship, and I would say as a princess overall.

♪She's not flawless

♪She's a work in progress

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