Will Guide

Spoiler S08:E24 - Father Knows Beast

Jeric

Warning, there will likely be spoilers in the Episode discussion threads so venture in at your own peril. 

Message added by Jeric

Episode Rating  

93 members have voted

  1. 1. Did you like or dislike the Episode?

    • "Suffering will be this episode's teacher" *shoots fire* (HATE IT!)
    • "When I sit down to an episode, I like to have it in tune" *plays out of tune notes* (Dislike it)
    • "This episode is like your father: A Pirate and a Good Man" *The calm neutral waves crash* (Meh)
    • "The Like is Strong with this Episode" *heavy breaths* (Like it!)
    • "I am proud to be this Episode's family!" *Gives a grito* (LOVE IT!)


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2 minutes ago, Will Guide said:

Without looking at the spoiler box, how did you even see the episode?

Equestria Daily's got links! ;) I'm on my phone right now though so I can't send it

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Father Knows Beast Episode Spoilers

Spoiler

Spike's "father" brainwashed Spike to the point where Spike said something that literally broke Twilight Sparkle's heart. :(

I did *not* like that one bit. :dry:

Luckily, Twilight & Spike's reconciliation was very sweet & made up for the above scene. :rarity:

 

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Spoiler

Some more clues of Sludge's manipulation just in the first montage.

  1. Sludge sighed, disgruntled, at the treadmill and jumped off the second that cider was squeezed into the barrel (with hilarious results XD).
  2. Sludge rested as the Wonderbolts carried him into the sky and only glided when Dash warned him.
  3. He only started flying for real in order to chase after Pinkie and her food cart.

When it all adds up, yeah, this isn't a bait and switch at all.

 

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First of all, about my head fanon being potentially jossed by this episode:

Spoiler

It hasn't! I feel somewhat relieved. The idea that I as Will Guide could have been Spike's true dragon father reborn is still possible. I could most possibly have been a much better father to Spike than Sludge ever could. Wouldn't some of you guys agree?

Now to talk about the episode Without my made-up Head Fanon.

Spoiler

In terms of humor, there were two moments that made me chuckle.
Twilight walking in on Sludge and acting like he's in the nude. 
The other is mostly tear-jerking but still a nice visual gag of Twilight's heart breaking

It's official to me: Smolder's the much better expert on Dragon Culture. She corrected Spike on a lot of things, unlike Sludge who took advantage of Spike. Yeah, I could see Smolder being the real father figure (Since Father Figures are usually the ones who teach their young about the world), while Twilight was and still is Spike's mother figure (Mothers tend to be the ones who care and feed for you when you're young)

Also, after What Lies Beneath and this episode, Smolder is quickly raising up in my favorite new characters in Season 8.

 

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Spoiler

Even his damn BACKSTORY'S suspicious! "Locked somewhere not even the Princess of Friendship have heard of"? How the hell did he get out of that prison in the first place?

 

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Now that I'm rewatching this episode with subs, I'm seeing more and more.

Spoiler
Spoiler

Spike: We got so much done. But those were only my ideas. *holds onto Sludge's arm; Sludge stops* Is there something you always wanted to do with me?

Sludge *casually*: *pulls out ear wax :eww:* Not really. *flicks it away*

Spike: *dismayed*

Sludge: I mean, I want to do what you want.

Gee, man, nice save. :dry:

 

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Spoiler
Spoiler

Sludge: If I had a castle like this filled with lots of stuff, then I would have rested all day like a real dragon. *clasps Spike's shoulder*

Spike *confused*: Like a real dragon?

Sludge: *lets go* Yes! I'm not surprised that you don't know any better. Twilight has raised you like a pony. *walks away casually* Well, you are barely a dragon.

Spike: What? *slumps away, feeling hurt*

…He's literally belittling Spike for being raised by a pony, but does it so casually and so sneakily. This is COZY GLOW-level manipulation!!

That vile, repulsive BASTARD! :angry:

 

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(edited)
15 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:
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Sludge: If I had a castle like this filled with lots of stuff, then I would have rested all day like a real dragon. *clasps Spike's shoulder*

Spike *confused*: Like a real dragon?

Sludge: *lets go* Yes! I'm not surprised that you don't know any better. Twilight has raised you like a pony. *walks away casually* Well, you are barely a dragon.

Spike: What? *slumps away, feeling hurt*

…He's literally belittling Spike for being raised by a pony, but does it so casually and so sneakily. This is COZY GLOW-level manipulation!!

That vile, repulsive BASTARD! :angry:

 

About what you said in the spoilers.

Spoiler

With me, I rather be manipulated by Cozy Glow than Sludge. At least she can look cute while being a little bitch. Sludge is just selfish and ugly.

Know what I mean?

 

Edited by Will Guide

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3 minutes ago, Will Guide said:

About what you said in the spoilers.

  Hide contents

With me, I rather be manipulated by Cozy Glow than Sludge. At least she can look cute while being a little bitch. Sludge is just selfish and ugly.

Know what I mean?

 

Spoiler

Loud and clear, yet they're each repulsive in their own, unique ways, too. Their manipulation's really sneaky, subtle, and preys on the vulnerable. Cozy for sounding innocent, Sludge for being casual.

 

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(edited)

I don't like this episode for a couple reasons.

Most notably, this episode is boring. The episode makes it painfully obvious that Sludge is not Spike's father, so any tension about that is ruined. On top of that, Sludge is about as generic an antagonist as you can get. He shows up to manipulate Spike into doing what he wants and to live in a castle. He's not over the top or really sinister, he's just a boring fat tub of lard.

Also, I feel like the focus and pacing of the episode is off.

The pacing is off because a few things could've been cut down significantly. The montage of the mane six helping Sludge get back on his feet not only wasn't funny, but also went on for way too long. Same with Sludge's fake backstory.

The focus is off in that I feel like Sludge should've told Spike he was his father earlier. What happens in act 2 with Sludge showing Spike how to be a dragon should've been much earlier and I feel like Twilight and Smolder should've had more of a part. More could've been done with the contrast between Twilight and Sludge in terms of Sludge being a dragon parent while Twilight is a pony parent. Twilight could've had introspective moments about this and gone to talk with Smolder to ask what she should do. Instead the episode goes for the generic approach. There's a lot of wasted potential here.

The only thing I like is the song, but that's not much.

Score: 1/10

Edited by bigbertha

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(edited)
Spoiler
1 hour ago, bigbertha said:

On top of that, Sludge is about as generic an antagonist as you can get. He shows up to manipulate Spike into doing what he wants and to live in a castle. He's not over the top or really sinister, he's just a boring fat tub of lard. 

Disagree completely at this point. Sludge looks to be absolutely excellent as an antagonist, and one of its biggest reasons is how sneaky he is in his manipulative ways. He knows how to work around everyone's trust for him, especially Spike, who's literally a child. He took advantage of an admitted orphan just to get in and around Twilight's luxurious amenities, and when he flubs, he's quick to apologize, which makes Spike believe he's trying. Spike wants to impress Sludge so badly, because he doesn't know who his parents truly are; to him, this is the first time he can communicate with his biological family, so he'll do whatever he can to make it work.

1 hour ago, bigbertha said:

The montage of the mane six helping Sludge get back on his feet not only wasn't funny, but also went on for way too long. There's also Sludge's fake backstory which also could've been not only cut down, but been played more for comedy at how hard Sludge is trying to look believably sad.  

  1. The first montage is one of the most important scenes of the entire episode, as it allows him to get to know them more and for them to trust him, and it shows how much they care for Spike. He even said it himself; the RM6 are his family. Cut that out, and you lose all that weight the story carries and his credibility as an antagonist.
  2. The backstory is suspicious, because we don't know how he allegedly escaped that prison in the sky, but because Klugetown's the worst town throughout the realm, we as an audience can also buy it. There's enough gray matter for the characters and us an audience so his story doesn't smell automatically contrived. But it should be played seriously, and the direction it went to is the right one. Play it more for comedy, and you risk devolving everyone into an idiot.

Smolder matters, too. Spike lived most of his life around ponies, while Smolder's the opposite. She knows dragondom customs, social norms, archetypes, life cycles. In Molt Down, Spike was initially suspicious of his growth as a result of the last time he grew, but Smolder understood the difference between greed-induced bigness and natural growth instantly. When Spike explains that Sludge is trying to teach him the "real" dragon way, Smolder realized instantaneously something's wrong, thanks to her firsthand knowledge of dragons, a call back to both Molt Down and the opener.

 

Edited by Dark Qiviut
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21 hours ago, MegaSean45 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Bad news: This episode made my nightmares come true. That dragon was NOT Spike's dad! We still don't have an origin story!

Good news: Spike and Smolder had an awesome amount of interactions, and them being related could still happen!

Overall: OK episode. I'm not mad. I thought I would be, but I wasn't! I know there's hope for an origin story for Spike to come true on the show! I've been waiting so long for it to happen! But... I can wait a little longer. I just hope my patience will be worth it.

 

 

Spoiler

I saw that miles away :darling:

 

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3 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:
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Disagree completely at this point. Sludge looks to be absolutely excellent as an antagonist, and one of its biggest reasons is how sneaky he is in his manipulative ways. He knows how to work around everyone's trust for him, especially Spike, who's literally a child. He took advantage of an admitted orphan just to get in and around Twilight's luxurious amenities, and when he flubs, he's quick to apologize, which makes Spike believe he's trying. Spike wants to impress Sludge so badly, because he doesn't know who his parents truly are; to him, this is the first time he can communicate with his biological family, so he'll do whatever he can to make it work.

  1. The first montage is one of the most important scenes of the entire episode, as it allows him to get to know them more and for them to trust him, and it shows how much they care for Spike. He even said it himself; the RM6 are his family. Cut that out, and you lose all that weight the story carries and his credibility as an antagonist.
  2. The backstory is suspicious, because we don't know how he allegedly escaped that prison in the sky, but because Klugetown's the worst town throughout the realm, we as an audience can also buy it. There's enough gray matter for the characters and us an audience so his story doesn't smell automatically contrived. But it should be played seriously, and the direction it went to is the right one. Play it more for comedy, and you risk devolving everyone into an idiot.

Smolder matters, too. Spike lived most of his life around ponies, while Smolder's the opposite. She knows dragondom customs, social norms, archetypes, life cycles. In Molt Down, Spike was initially suspicious of his growth as a result of the last time he grew, but Smolder understood the difference between greed-induced bigness and natural growth instantly. When Spike explains that Sludge is trying to teach him the "real" dragon way, Smolder realized instantaneously something's wrong, thanks to her firsthand knowledge of dragons, a call back to both Molt Down and the opener.

 

The RM6? Who are you missing as the 7th? Ya got Twilight, Pinkie, Rainbow, AJ, Rarity, Flutters, and Starlight!

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2 hours ago, MegaSean45 said:

The RM6? Who are you missing as the 7th? Ya got Twilight, Pinkie, Rainbow, AJ, Rarity, Flutters, and Starlight!

Spoiler

For this episode, I'm not referring to Starlight: She's not part of the episode minus a cameo for a well-done joke.

 

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Spoiler

Alternate ending: Twilight, Rarity, Starlight, Ember, Thorax and Smolder beating up Sludge for taking advantage of Spike. 

 

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10 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:
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For this episode, I'm not referring to Starlight: She's not part of the episode minus a cameo for a well-done joke.

 

He means they're only one part of his family! He's got more! He's got Glimglam, Big Mac, and Cathy Weseluck already confirmed Discord! And what about the princesses or even Twilight's family (who he has still yet to bond with)? If Twilight adopted him, then her family is his too then. He shoulda been on that zeppelin trip. That's so not fair.

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4 hours ago, VG_Addict said:
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Alternate ending: Twilight, Rarity, Starlight, Ember, Thorax and Smolder beating up Sludge for taking advantage of Spike. 

 

Spoiler

Add Big Mac, Discord and other characters close to him to the mix and you have the makings of a very satisfying catharsis fic

 

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(edited)
15 minutes ago, ggg-2 said:
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Add Big Mac, Discord and other characters close to him to the mix and you have the makings of a very satisfying catharsis fic

 

Spoiler

And all the Crystal Ponies.

 

Edited by VG_Addict

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Even though I feel Spike got cheated YET AGAIN with this bologna, I think I'm ok with it... at least for now... yunno why? Cause the more times he gets cheated, when he finally gets that BIG glory he deserves, it would feel sooooooooo relieving and satisfying! Dr. Wolf was onto something with that 7th element thing. In all things considered, season 9 will make up for everything Spike has been through! EVERYTHING!

:D

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5 hours ago, MegaSean45 said:

 

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He means they're only one part of his family! He's got more! He's got Glimglam, Big Mac, and Cathy Weseluck already confirmed Discord! And what about the princesses or even Twilight's family (who he has still yet to bond with)? If Twilight adopted him, then her family is his too then. He shoulda been on that zeppelin trip. That's so not fair.

 

About the Zeppelin from a past episode last year, Spike CHOSE to stay behind and look after things while Twilight and rest of the Family enjoy the trip. It was HIS decision back then, and nobody else's.

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Wait a minute! After this episode, is Spike still crushing on Rarity? Cause I'm thinking after this, he'd realize...

...Sludge pretended to be Spike's dad so he could take advantage of him! Doesn't that remind Spike of a certain somepony who's been doing the same thing since season 1?

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Spoiler

Okay, I thought that it would end up as ponies Spike's  real family. Begs the question why they just never asked Princess Celestia where the egg came from. I am not really sure how is dragon wing not having feathers makes a big difference in flying. I think episode was great even thought the dragon ended up being a pretender, and to be fair I enjoyed a fake story.

.

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I caved a bit and watched the subbed cold open to this ep. :lie:  I figured there would be no earth-shattering surprises since I guessed it would mostly be the same material that was previewed in the DFC-released animatic, and it was.


What I did see I really liked. Some specifics:

Spoiler
  • I loved seeing Smolder help Spike out with his flying. While I'm a little disappointed there was no explanation as to why he was practicing stunts, it didn't matter much in the end. I can already see the point of that scene with Smolder helping is to set-up a plausible condition that Twilight would see a benefit to Spike living with dragons again.
  • Spike loves sewing?? Well, that's a new one. :wau:  I guess being so close to Rarity so often is rubbing off on him. Seeing him enjoy a hobby that is the main skill the love of his life does for a living provokes some of those old Sparity thoughts I had when I first binge-watched seasons 1 and 2. One of the arguments against Sparity was that Spike and Rarity had nothing in common. Well, now they do. I still think Spike might be happier if he found someone else, but as everyone knows I'm all about Spike's happiness, and if it turns out he really is more happy with Rarity than anyone, so be it.
  • I swear Spike plowing through the soil during his crash landing is a callback to Twilight doing the same thing at the opening of season 4. :laugh: It's a nice little nod how much the two of them have grown together through the years, and may also be a sentiment that figures into the episode later.
  • The pillow he made for Smolder was a sweet gesture. Though with the color and dragon wings, that looks like a pillow made to look like her. If he were making it for himself, then I'd begin to wonder if there was more between them than the show lets on. :)

 

 

Now I just have to wait till Saturday evening to watch the rest of it.

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(edited)

Ok here we go  . . .

Spoiler

 

1) First and most important thing is that this episode pretty much confirms Twilight considers Spike her son YES, YES, YES! Oh that heartbreaking shot when he tells her that he finally has a real parent. She is so definately his mother.

2) I wonder if Twilight crashed as much as Spike when first being taught to fly by Rainbow Dash.

3) Nice to see Smoulder really can be nice with the way she took the time to correct Spike when she realized he was being taken advantage of.

4) Saw Sludge lying coming a mile away. Of course in my opinion (see point 1) Twilight is Spikes mother both by nurture (raising him especially if you include the comics where she gave him his name when he was trying to say he was like Smarty pants as his first word). Also possibly by nature given the similarity in colour and her using magic to hatch him.

5) I do like the way it was Rarity who gave Spike his Hearths warming present indirectly while Rainbow Dash was making snow outside the window from a sack ^_^

6) Pinky know's how to motivate people in rehab hold a cupcake in front of them.

7) I was amused by Starlight being tossed out the window in a tub as part of the things a dragon doesn't need.

 

 

On 8/27/2018 at 9:41 PM, Truffles said:

I'm holding firm so far and am avoiding looking at the spoilers until Saturday when the English release is out in Australia. Did see a few impressions that ranged from great to disappointed, which pretty much is par for the course. :mlp_bedeyes:

This is going to be one tough week, though....

 

Where are they airing in Australia if you don't mind me asking? As I've not been able to locate them on my tv guide.

 

On 8/28/2018 at 2:08 AM, VG_Addict said:

Alright, rewatching earlier episodes.

Might just be me, but Spike is braver in later episodes.

Spoiler

Interesting theory there with Spike and it would explain the 7 characters in Equestria Girls

 

On 8/29/2018 at 8:51 AM, FlareGun45 said:

Wait a minute! After this episode, is Spike still crushing on Rarity? Cause I'm thinking after this, he'd realize...

 

  Hide contents

...Sludge pretended to be Spike's dad so he could take advantage of him! Doesn't that remind Spike of a certain somepony who's been doing the same thing since season 1?

 

Spoiler

The thing is she gives as well as takes as demonstrated here where she's the one to actually provide his "hearth's warming" gift. What advantage she does take of him is just what she does to any male and like I said unlike the usual pretty girl flirting to get things with him she also gives of her time and work in return.

 

On 8/28/2018 at 5:23 AM, Dark Qiviut said:
  Hide contents

Some more clues of Sludge's manipulation just in the first montage.

  1. Sludge sighed, disgruntled, at the treadmill and jumped off the second that cider was squeezed into the barrel (with hilarious results XD).
  2. Sludge rested as the Wonderbolts carried him into the sky and only glided when Dash warned him.
  3. He only started flying for real in order to chase after Pinkie and her food cart.

When it all adds up, yeah, this isn't a bait and switch at all.

 

Spoiler

There's plenty of other little cues here and there to his real nature like his saying to Twilight "MY castle is your castle" when she walks in on him or his implying he went to Kludgetown then changing it to somewhere even the princess of friendship doesn't know when he finds out they've been there.

I see you can't spoiler a spoiler interesting.

Edited by Senko

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8 hours ago, Truffles said:

I caved a bit and watched the subbed cold open to this ep. :lie:  I figured there would be no earth-shattering surprises since I guessed it would mostly be the same material that was previewed in the DFC-released animatic, and it was.


What I did see I really liked. Some specifics:

  Hide contents
  • I loved seeing Smolder help Spike out with his flying. While I'm a little disappointed there was no explanation as to why he was practicing stunts, it didn't matter much in the end. I can already see the point of that scene with Smolder helping is to set-up a plausible condition that Twilight would see a benefit to Spike living with dragons again.
  •  Spike loves sewing?? Well, that's a new one. :wau:  I guess being so close to Rarity so often is rubbing off on him. Seeing him enjoy a hobby that is the main skill the love of his life does for a living provokes some of those old Sparity thoughts I had when I first binge-watched seasons 1 and 2. One of the arguments against Sparity was that Spike and Rarity had nothing in common. Well, now they do. I still think Spike might be happier if he found someone else, but as everyone knows I'm all about Spike's happiness, and if it turns out he really is more happy with Rarity than anyone, so be it.
  • I swear Spike plowing through the soil during his crash landing is a callback to Twilight doing the same thing at the opening of season 4. :laugh: It's a nice little nod how much the two of them have grown together through the years, and may also be a sentiment that figures into the episode later.
  • The pillow he made for Smolder was a sweet gesture. Though with the color and dragon wings, that looks like a pillow made to look like her. If he were making it for himself, then I'd begin to wonder if there was more between them than the show lets on. :)

 

 

Now I just have to wait till Saturday evening to watch the rest of it.

I think I might get what you mean by "there was more between them than the show lets on". I already dropped that theory about Smolder being his sister, but I'm starting to think the writers are setting Smolder up to be Spike's girlfriend! I guess if the crush on Rarity were to go away, there needs to be something else to take it's place, and I think Smolder would be an amazing gf! Smolder and Spike already have so much in common! Remember the firebreathing contest from a few episodes back? Also Smolder likes cute things like Spike does? Whatever's gonna happen between Spike and Smolder, it seems like the writers are setting up SOMETHING!

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