S08:E22 - What Lies Beneath

[ggg-2 3,550]

Wow, the Tree of Harmony's performance as Twilight was really wooden. ......I'll see myself out.  

Edited September 23, 2018 by ggg-2

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

An absolutely stellar episode!

[gingerninja666 487]

3 minutes ago, PoisonClaw said:

Well, that was a pretty decent episode. It wasn't amazing or anything, but it was a nice bit of character development for the Student Six, as well as another reference to the events of the movie. Plus, it was a nice bit of lore with the Tree of Harmony, and set up potential future appearances now that it is able to project itself and says it constantly grows stronger as need be. 

My only real complaint here...

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is Cozy Glow. Knowing what happens in the finale despite not having seen it, can someone tell me if we're ever given a reason WHY Gozy Glow, who is a child I remind you, is irredeemably evil enough to lock away in Tartarus?

 

 

Spoiler

It's going to come down to interpretation, but for me it's 4 things:

1. She's a terrorist

2. When Starlight turned good she didn't know anything and became a friendship student. Cozy IS a friendship student already, surrounded by people who care about her and listening to friendship lessons enough to be an excellent student, and somehow internalized NONE of her lessons. She spent months listening to how important honesty is and yet merrily lied through her teeth to everyone.

3. I don't think of Tartarus as hell in this universe. The prisoners mostly remarks on how bored they are.

4. Cozy had absolutely zero remorse about ANYTHING.

 

[CypherHoof 26,479]

Just now, PoisonClaw said:

Well, that was a pretty decent episode. It wasn't amazing or anything, but it was a nice bit of character development for the Student Six, as well as another reference to the events of the movie. Plus, it was a nice bit of lore with the Tree of Harmony, and set up potential future appearances now that it is able to project itself and says it constantly grows stronger as need be. 

My only real complaint here...

  Reveal hidden contents

is Cozy Glow. Knowing what happens in the finale despite not having seen it, can someone tell me if we're ever given a reason WHY Gozy Glow, who is a child I remind you, is irredeemably evil enough to lock away in Tartarus? 

 

 

Spoiler

Might tie into all the complaints about too many characters getting redeemed (which to be fair, is not just standard Pony, but pretty normal for belief systems like Ubuntuism that match Pony)

More importantly, I think part of the problem (and reaching ahead to later episodes too) is that Cozy isn't evil - she is suffering from “malignant narcissism,” and her cutie mark reflects that. Archetypes like this are of course core Pony - the mane six, sunset, glimglam, all these are textbook examples, and not by accident - but the closest we have had to this archetype so far has been Spoiled Rich, who is nowhere near as manipulative or delusional as cozy.

Tartarus isn't the answer, but I am not sure what IS; friendship wouldn't work, because she is incapable of it - people are to be used as stepping stones for her, and nothing more

 

[DEFENDER 1,283]

i cant wait til this comes out

[CypherHoof 26,479]

1 minute ago, DEFENDER said:

i cant wait til this comes out

Thought it did? there was a streaming party for it and everything?

[gingerninja666 487]

This episode seemed to be shipping Gallustream real hard and proper.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

5 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

This episode seemed to be shipping Gallustream real hard and proper.

Oh, yeah. Only question is, what do we call this ship: Gallusstream? Lovebirds?

[TwilySparks 66]

I thought this episode was really interesting! I like the students a lot so it was awesome to see them again. Also, I really like the lore surrounding the Tree of Harmony!!

[Dark Qiviut 22,172]

Rewatching WLB. Yep!

Spoiler

Cozy's still a manipulative bitch!

 

[gingerninja666 487]

14 minutes ago, Theanimationfanatic said:

Oh, yeah. Only question is, what do we call this ship: Gallusstream? Lovebirds?

Lovebirds seems like a tongue in cheek name Smolder or Sandbar would call them.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

2 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

Lovebirds seems like a tongue in cheek name Smolder or Sandbar would call them.

You just gave me a new headcanon.

[CypherHoof 26,479]

3 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Rewatching WLB. Yep!

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Cozy's still a manipulative bitch!

 

Spoiler

Hence the chess piece. Lets rename her "Crazy glow"

 

[Truffles 2,033]

When I first heard about this episode and started seeing the promos, I thought it was going to be mostly about Silverstream's fear of the Storm King. Setting up a character with PTSD and helping her deal with it would be a pretty bold move for the series. As it is, that was only one element and the PTSD aspect is downplayed for the most part. But the idea of having all the students face their fears to teach they can all reap the benefits of friendship is a great moral.

Also, I really was hoping the broken pieces of the Storm King were being stored under the school, as that would have been delightfully dark without being actually dark. I suppose they gave him a proper burial, even though he was turned to stone.

 

It's funny how much trouble the characters have with the history of the entire series compared to how easy it is for most fans to relate the details of past events. Certainly the question of whether Discord's chocolate rain came before or after the castle is pretty simple.

It wasn't until the second viewing that I actually noticed all the stuff with the plumbing book Silverstream was getting so excited about that set up her quote later during her panic.

Wow, this face on Gallus just screams, "Drop dead, bitch." XD

Also, that smug look on Cozy there is yet another clue she's not really the nice pony she pretends to be.

I noticed the Tree didn't end it's statement about failure with the word, "forever." Presumably, then, they would only have had to stay until they all passed their tests?

Gallus' fear could be divided into two parts due to his dialogue: He's not just afraid of tight spaces, but he's also afraid of taking tests and failing them. That's some good insight into why he's often heard dismissing the benefits of learning.

Now Yona and Spike have something in common: They're both afraid of spiders. Well, they were - I guess Yona is cured now. Now help a friend dragon out, maybe?

The line of Ocellus-as-Chrysalis of, "It's me - I'm hideous!" is the funniest in the episode for me. If the real Chrysalis was that over-the-top dramatic, the ponies might feel sorry for her. XD

Thanks to the Tree, a new ship has set sail:

The hard-nosed griffon doesn't know how to deal with overt displays of affection, however.    Just roll with it, buddy.

Ocellus must have done some things in her life before Thorax saved them all that she's not particularly proud of. I wonder if she helped carry out the plan to replace the Mane 6 and princesses? Or the raid on Canterlot? I'm not sure how effective a nymph changeling would be at carrying out attacks. Maybe she was just siphoning love off of other ponies while she disguised herself as a cute colt or filly?

Smolder: "But ever since school started, I realized that sometimes - I kinda don't mind cute stuff."
Guess that explains why her and Spike are hitting it off.

There is something gratifying about seeing Smolder smack Cozy's deceptive muzzle to shut her up while Yona inadvertently looks on contently:

 

Anyway, another great episode.This one is actually more akin to how I wanted "The Hearthswarming Club" to play out - a story that gives us insight into the inner psyches of the Student 6. "THWC" was still a great episode, but this was even better.

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Truffles

[Misty Shadow 7,078]

Great episode focusing entirely on the Student 6, better than The Hearth's Warming Club. Again, we get to learn something new about each of these characters, only this time, it's done with a more engaging real-time conflict with a real risk involved. It's weird how The Tree of Harmony is an actual character now, but the much more disturbing aspect of this episode is easily Cozy Glow. It's creepy how good she is at lying and manipulating these kids while pretending to be an innocent child. She got them to doubt themselves by making them believe they couldn't understand friendship because of their species and that one of them was privileged because of their species. And to top it off, she pretended to be a victim so that the others wouldn't inform Twilight about something crucial. What a sociopath. However, it shows how good of a job they've done building up what's yet to come.

[Senko 459]

4 hours ago, PathfinderCS said:

The main purpose of the tree, as far as the Pillars are concerned, is the protection of Equestria. Twilight herself believes that by spreading friendship you are benefitting Equestria, and I think the Tree shares that. By strengthening their bond they are potentially inspiring other nations to work together, thereby protecting Equestria in a stronger way.

When watching the episode I had this image in my head of Neighsay and Twilight being lured down there and sealed in a room with the avatar telling them "I find your lack of friendship disturbing, you two will remain here till you kiss and make up." With them needing to pass through a series of rooms like the puzzle/helper locked room that Twilight took her friends too and they missed out on a record because they sang a song.

4 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

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It's going to come down to interpretation, but for me it's 4 things:

1. She's a terrorist

2. When Starlight turned good she didn't know anything and became a friendship student. Cozy IS a friendship student already, surrounded by people who care about her and listening to friendship lessons enough to be an excellent student, and somehow internalized NONE of her lessons. She spent months listening to how important honesty is and yet merrily lied through her teeth to everyone.

3. I don't think of Tartarus as hell in this universe. The prisoners mostly remarks on how bored they are.

4. Cozy had absolutely zero remorse about ANYTHING.

 

I also think part of it is who know's with Starlight and her time shenanigans the only pony who really know's what she did is Twilight and she also know's that when push came to shove and she was shown the consequences of her actions were worse than she ever imagined she stopped herself.

Spoiler

In this case though Cosy knew exactly what the consequences of her actions would be and had no intention of stopping herself plus her actions are known about by Celestia and Luna who are both probably less forgiving than Twilight especially when it comes to a pony who shows no remorse and has every intention of trying again.

 

1 hour ago, Cypherhoof said:

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Hence the chess piece. Lets rename her "Crazy glow"

 

Spoiler

Yep that chess piece does say a lot about her special talent being the manipulation of other ponies and how she views them. There's one fanfic "Getting back on your hooves" that deals with Trixie and an older sister who views the entire world as chess pieces she can manipulate to her own advantage/enjoyment, she actually goes out of her way just to ruin any and all achievements Trixie might gain in order to leave her a broken, homeless pony simply because in her mind anything Trixie achieves takes away from her own accomplishments so she has to destroy her. The fact its also fun is just a bonus and Cosy reminds me a lot of how she'd be as a young filly.

 

[Thrond 3,257]

This is 80% exposition, but it's very cute. The kids are alright. The high stakes kind of annoy me, and it sorta lacks the subtlety of this show's best episodes, but there's enough here that's charming, and the students' personalities shine through. A few points:

• Well, guess the show's not playing around with Cozy Glow anymore. She's weird and sketchy and everything she says sounds insincere... interested to see what becomes of her. Also, she may or may not be a racist? Not entirely clear to me. 
• The worldbuilding is neat. I like the idea that the Tree of Harmony is constantly evolving and learning, and this expands upon its seeming sentience in interesting ways. I'm still not that invested in the lore of this show, but this season I generally don't mind its presence, because it's gotten a huge boost in sophistication. With that said, I don't really like the show's penchant to have such high stakes all the time... I feel like that persistent sense of danger diminishes the show's charm a bit. I guess I just miss the relaxed context of the earlier seasons. 
• This is just me, but Twilight being the form the Tree of Harmony takes reminded me of how little the show has actually done with her this season... if a complete shift in the status quo isn't enough to give the mane six direction, I can't imagine what would be. 
• The Smolder stuff kind of annoyed me for some reason. There's something about tomboyish characters trying to hide their femininity which just rubs me the wrong way. That, too, is just me, though.
• I'm not sure testing these characters' friendship is something the show has earned. Season 1, by comparison, spent a lot of time specifically building up the mane six's relationships, so the finale was that much more satisfying; here, it feels like a fairly mechanical attempt to expand on these characters from a show which doesn't have enough space to do it organically. So they're forced by some mystical contrivance to confront their fears, and talk almost constantly about what these quirky scenes mean. For all that's improved about the show this year, its structure is continuing to get worse and worse. 
• Stuff like Silverstream shouting at the Storm King shadow and Yona befriending a spider make up for all of that, though. This was very pleasant.  

Score:
Entertainment: 7/10
Characters: 9/10
Themes: 7/10
Story: 5/10
Overall: 70/100
 

[TransitPony 219]

Watched this episode, it was pretty good! I never expected the Tree of Harmony having a role here. So much character development, I love it. What Twilight said about the Elements in the beginning reminded me of the existence of the Chaos Emeralds (background info unknown, who made it or where it's from but it plays a role in major events). 

Cozy Glow though. I have a feeling she could be a part of a conspiracy to take down the School of Friendship after all.  

Edited September 22, 2018 by TransitPony

[Thrond 3,257]

Oh, and Sandbar is just plain boring. 

I did dig the cold open, though. Twilight's enthusiasm for teaching will always make me smile. 

[Truffles 2,033]

1 minute ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Oh, and Sandbar is just plain boring. 

It's funny a pony is the least interesting of the Student 6 in a show titled "My Little Pony." Here, the problem is the stakes don't seem as high for Sandbar as they do for the fears of the other 5 students. At first blush, Sandbar's issue with trying to impress the Mane 6 seems trivial. However, now seeing this episode again after seeing the finale does create a bit of an "Aha!" moment for future events. I hope that's obtuse enough to not be a spoiler.

[Thrond 3,257]

1 minute ago, Truffles said:

It's funny a pony is the least interesting of the Student 6 in a show titled "My Little Pony." Here, the problem is the stakes don't seem as high for Sandbar as they do for the fears of the other 5 students. At first blush, Sandbar's issue with trying to impress the Mane 6 seems trivial.

I wasn't that bothered by his problem or his fear, which both strike me as resonant enough, but his mannerisms just don't interest me at all. 

[Jirehlov 9]

5 hours ago, PathfinderCS said:

The main purpose of the tree, as far as the Pillars are concerned, is the protection of Equestria. Twilight herself believes that by spreading friendship you are benefitting Equestria, and I think the Tree shares that. By strengthening their bond they are potentially inspiring other nations to work together, thereby protecting Equestria in a stronger way.

My understanding: the Tree does have a prediction that the friendship among  Young Six is as important as that among Mane Six. She believes one day they may get an opportunity where they are the only key to save Equestria (we have seen in e25 and e26).

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

Thoughts in the spoiler tag.

Spoiler

 

They're not hiding the fact that Cozy Glow is up to something given her choice of words and how she freaked out at the end when the thought of the Mane Six being informed of the Tree of Harmony's changing power made her upset. I'm aware of some aspects of what will happen in the finale but that's a topic for another time. This is all about the Student Six going underground and being tested by pitting them against their fears. I was honestly surprised that 'Twilight' in the basement was the Tree of Harmony itself. We've known that it possesses immense powers but being able to project itself in the form of another and communicate was definitely out there. Perhaps this test was an attempt at the tree to prepare the students for something or perhaps it wanted to see if creatures from different tribes can truly get along?

I liked the callback moments with the Storm King and his forces, and Chrysalis though I had hoped the formers would have been given physical forms as opposed to being nothing but shadows designed to strike at Silverstream's psyche. Smolder's fear was the funniest because it was both obvious in nature and that no matter how many times she ran away from it, she ended up back where she started. Seeing her dressed up was disturbing but at least she brushed it off as a necessary thing to do in order to pass her trial. I also liked what Ocellus had to go through because of how it relates back to Chrysalis and how she believed Changelings were to be interpreted. Change is something that's a gradual process. It doesn't happen overnight but if given the chance to flourish, it can become something spectacular. Case in point, the Tree of Harmony has done plenty of this with its newest abilities being a fine example. On a different note, Gallus being afraid of tight spaces was surprising but his reactions were genuine to me. Claustrophobia is nothing to laugh at and he was fearing for his life as the walls were closing in on him.

Yona being afraid of spiders was a little disappointing as I was expecting something that involved her yak heritage but I suppose they needed something simple, yet it also turned out to be a blessing as her new friends proved helpful. And then we have Sandbar and his fear of not impressing the Mane Six. I'll admit that his was the weakest test of all--Sandbar is the one student among the six whose presence feels devoid of any development--since it was all about showing off his knowledge--he does have an advantage what with being a pony and all--but he realized that his friends were more important than winning favour with the Mane Six. I do wish he had figured it out a bit sooner than he did but at least he did. There's not really much else to say about this episode other than it gave the students some much needed character development and signifies that they have a significant role in the future. Well... I suppose I could bring up Cozy Glow one more time.

Again, they're not being subtle with her. You know she's up to something as her mannerisms are a dead giveaway. Even the final moments of the episode are a red flag in that she is going to be doing something that will affect the status-quo. I've yet to watch the finale as I'm watching the episodes as they were intended to be aired but it's as clear as night itself that the obvious with Cozy Glow is right there. I'll give this one a 96%. I really did enjoy this one.

 

 

[Senko 459]

18 minutes ago, Ganondorf8 said:

Thoughts in the spoiler tag.

  Hide contents

 

They're not hiding the fact that Cozy Glow is up to something given her choice of words and how she freaked out at the end when the thought of the Mane Six being informed of the Tree of Harmony's changing power made her upset. I'm aware of some aspects of what will happen in the finale but that's a topic for another time. This is all about the Student Six going underground and being tested by pitting them against their fears. I was honestly surprised that 'Twilight' in the basement was the Tree of Harmony itself. We've known that it possesses immense powers but being able to project itself in the form of another and communicate was definitely out there. Perhaps this test was an attempt at the tree to prepare the students for something or perhaps it wanted to see if creatures from different tribes can truly get along?

I liked the callback moments with the Storm King and his forces, and Chrysalis though I had hoped the formers would have been given physical forms as opposed to being nothing but shadows designed to strike at Silverstream's psyche. Smolder's fear was the funniest because it was both obvious in nature and that no matter how many times she ran away from it, she ended up back where she started. Seeing her dressed up was disturbing but at least she brushed it off as a necessary thing to do in order to pass her trial. I also liked what Ocellus had to go through because of how it relates back to Chrysalis and how she believed Changelings were to be interpreted. Change is something that's a gradual process. It doesn't happen overnight but if given the chance to flourish, it can become something spectacular. Case in point, the Tree of Harmony has done plenty of this with its newest abilities being a fine example. On a different note, Gallus being afraid of tight spaces was surprising but his reactions were genuine to me. Claustrophobia is nothing to laugh at and he was fearing for his life as the walls were closing in on him.

Yona being afraid of spiders was a little disappointing as I was expecting something that involved her yak heritage but I suppose they needed something simple, yet it also turned out to be a blessing as her new friends proved helpful. And then we have Sandbar and his fear of not impressing the Mane Six. I'll admit that his was the weakest test of all--Sandbar is the one student among the six whose presence feels devoid of any development--since it was all about showing off his knowledge--he does have an advantage what with being a pony and all--but he realized that his friends were more important than winning favour with the Mane Six. I do wish he had figured it out a bit sooner than he did but at least he did. There's not really much else to say about this episode other than it gave the students some much needed character development and signifies that they have a significant role in the future. Well... I suppose I could bring up Cozy Glow one more time.

Again, they're not being subtle with her. You know she's up to something as her mannerisms are a dead giveaway. Even the final moments of the episode are a red flag in that she is going to be doing something that will affect the status-quo. I've yet to watch the finale as I'm watching the episodes as they were intended to be aired but it's as clear as night itself that the obvious with Cozy Glow is right there. I'll give this one a 96%. I really did enjoy this one.

 

 

Spoiler

I'll be interested in seeing your thoughts when you do see the final episode because that last paragraph especially is part of why I have a problem with it.

 

[ImpctR 155]

^ What's the point of entering here then, does one expect to read posts and not get spoiled at the same time (if the spoilers are for the same episode)? Anyway, the past 4 episodes this inclusive has been with some of the good writers and made nice episodes, this episodes did not disappoint, it is awesome, have some small remarks. Let's see:

 

An episode focused entirely on the Student Six. I've mentioned it and will again, I find these six sooo adorable and I've been shipping them since the first episodes they had them, they are already much more interesting to me than the CMCs have ever been.

Here comes a little remark, it seems that when someone asks something (in the air), something non-natural around them will always become alive and start speaking and pointing it out. In Shadow Play it was when trying to figure out how to activate the stone pillars when placing items, here it is the Tree of Harmony suddenly can become a ghost and living being speaking to the Student Six, and in some cases the Map will magically point out or notify the ponies. Like really couldn't somepony figure things out on their own? I will accept this because nature or a tree seen as a spirit like nature's spirit has been done I guess.

Cozy Glow is such a lil manipulator, wanting to break their friendship. Does the crystal cave lead to the Tree of Harmony, is it the same cave? Like with the pond of too many Pinkie Pies?

Silverstream's place: The grunts, the face of the Storm King, more and more revealing for the movie, that anyone should have watched by now.

 

Spoiler

 

Gallus: TFW he was just about to exit and messed up the last beam to close it entirely, ouch!

Smoulder: I had a hard time knowing she or he, now I know for sure, she has always been cute and my most/2nd fave! Those ponies were right she was cute, before putting on the make-up.

 

Spoiler

 

Ocellus: Ahh the flashback of what Changelings looked like and Chrysalis appearance in same episode as the Storm King, feels good! 

So was Sandbar thirsty for leadership? He wants to be more important like the Mane 6.

And there I see two shipping materials that I totally dig! This, and 

 

Spoiler

 

this 

 

Spoiler

 

And finally, you lil devil Cozy are totally up to something (I dont watch further episodes by this time), I was only expecting this face from her:  (no not fab more like green eyes for evil)