S08:E25+26 - School Raze

[RDDash 18,864]

10 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

It' not just about the creatures. It's about the concept. About the awesomeness. FIM lore, inconsistent, boring, and neglected as it is, cannot sell itself. Things like Tartarus are here just to signal to the world how hip and edgy FIM is. It doesn't work when you turn your underworld into the Littlest Pet Shop.

 

At least they are trying to be hardcore, they had sent an underage yet insane child into pony Azkaban, probably for life too because we never saw the trial

Edited August 30, 2018 by R.D.Dash

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

Spoiler

So... they didn’t explain how the magical wave didn’t blow up the school at the end. I assume Starlight did something to stop it from having a harmful side effect, but I thought they’d at least explain how.

 

[bigbertha 410]

Spoiler

I really enjoyed this finale. There are a few things that didn't work, but most of it was very entertaining.

The best part was probably Cozy Glow. She's not really complex and we don't know her motive, but as an antagonist, she's pretty fun to watch. She manipulates those around her through the entire finale to get her way, which is much more interesting than a villain who only relies on destroying stuff.

The story at the school as a whole was really fun (up until the ending at least). I like what they did with Neighsay. His reformation barely felt like a reformation, as it all felt very natural. The student six were also written pretty well. Their chemistry as a group definitely shined through.

Despite all that, there are a few issues I had. First, the CMC were pointless. At first I was excited as this was the first 2 parter where the CMC actually had a part, but then they were just shoved in a closet. I get that they were supposed to be a diversion, but that didn't matter as Cozy still found the student six regardless. Secondly, the ending was a total deus ex machina. People have assumed all season that the student six had a connection to the elements, but it was never established during the season. There was "What Lies Beneath", but I thought that that whole situation was just set up by Twilight, not the tree.

I guess I should also mention the subplot in Tartarus with the mane six. It's fun enough, for a filler subplot. I know the mane six had to leave in order for the story to happen, but Starlight also had to be captured for the story to happen, and the two parter didn't show that. Even still, it's fine enough with a few good jokes, most notably Rainbow Dash ramming into the gates of Tartarus to escape.

Speaking of the Tartarus, the inside was really underwhelming, design wise. The gates look really cool, giving off a creepy vibe, but then the inside is shown and it's just an dark empty room with a bunch of cages of monsters. The crew could've gone a lot farther with that.

Despite the issues, I still found this finale to be a lot of fun.

Score: 7/10

Edited August 30, 2018 by bigbertha

[Dethde 20]

I don't know how to say this, but i was disappointed about it atleast at first glance.

Just going to say one of the reasons i disliked this season finale and rank it as one of the worst ones of the show.

Spoiler

Starlight Glimmer- Brainwashed a town against their will, stole cutie marks of everypony there, has magic that can rival twilicorn, has the ability to manipulate time and almost destroyed equestria, torturing the ponies of alternate universes.

Cozy Glow- Some kid who feels autistic (Not the insult.), and manipulative sure, but she also has no horn, and didn't have nearly as horrifying a plan as starlight, and just plainly didn't understand friendship to the point where it begins to be portrayed as insanity. 

Starlight: Reformed with no punishment and instead becomes the Princess of Friendship's pupil.

Cozy Glow: Blasted by magic with multiple visible wounds and scars. Send to hell for her crimes, locked in a small cage, WITHOUT magic may i add.

But oh let's let the much older time traveling broken unicorn, God of Chaos, Changeling Queen, Pony of Shadows and Nightmare moon go free with little to no punishment.

Sure, Discord was stoned for ages, but i'm pretty sure he wasn't conscious, and was freed instantly and trusted after reverting a disaster of his own doing.

Sure, pony of shadows and Nightmare Moon were manipulated, but both were controlled due to their own envy/hate.

Fun fact: Stygion transforms into the Pony of Shadows and turns to the dark side due to betrayal by friend, then proceeds to betray the Shadow who "Helped him when no pony would".

Edit: Oh god, the way the show passes on her literally being sent to hell as a joke, eugh.

Ps: Favorite part of the episode: Tirek gets hit in the face by his magic returning.

Many other problems i have with this episode, but this one was one of the most transparent.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by twichlove

[bwrosas 252]

English Translated Transcript:

Spoiler

https://pastebin.com/yRVPYPA7

 

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

1 hour ago, twichlove said:

I don't know how to say this, but i was disappointed about it atleast at first glance.

Just going to say one of the reasons i disliked this season finale and rank it as one of the worst ones of the show.

  Hide contents

Starlight Glimmer- Brainwashed a town against their will, stole cutie marks of everypony there, has magic that can rival twilicorn, has the ability to manipulate time and almost destroyed equestria, torturing the ponies of alternate universes.

Cozy Glow- Some kid who feels autistic (Not the insult.), and manipulative sure, but she also has no horn, and didn't have nearly as horrifying a plan as starlight, and just plainly didn't understand friendship to the point where it begins to be portrayed as insanity. 

Starlight: Reformed with no punishment and instead becomes the Princess of Friendship's pupil.

Cozy Glow: Blasted by magic with multiple visible wounds and scars. Send to hell for her crimes, locked in a small cage, WITHOUT magic may i add.

But oh let's let the much older time traveling broken unicorn, God of Chaos, Changeling Queen, Pony of Shadows and Nightmare moon go free with little to no punishment.

Sure, Discord was stoned for ages, but i'm pretty sure he wasn't conscious, and was freed instantly and trusted after reverting a disaster of his own doing.

Sure, pony of shadows and Nightmare Moon were manipulated, but both were controlled due to their own envy/hate.

Fun fact: Stygion transforms into the Pony of Shadows and turns to the dark side due to betrayal by friend, then proceeds to betray the Shadow who "Helped him when no pony would".

Edit: Oh god, the way the show passes on her literally being sent to hell as a joke, eugh.

Ps: Favorite part of the episode: Tirek gets hit in the face by his magic returning.

Many other problems i have with this episode, but this one was one of the most transparent.

 

Spoiler

1. Punishing Starlight would've been one of the biggest mistakes the show ever made. Starlight won her battle versus Twilight, but when offered to give the Magic of Friendship a second chance, she accepted it. Starlight was capable of reforming and redeeming, and the ReMane Seven knew this. That's why Starlight became her pupil.
2. The Elements's rainbow blast helped Luna let go of the jealousy and anger she harbored. The Princesses chose to reunite.
3. Stygian became evil as a result of feeling betrayed and left out despite being the one to help beat every evil imaginable at the time. While everyone justifiably so chose to send the Pony of Shadows back to Limbo, Starlight investigated to locate the root of thee problem to search for a real fix. Being an ex-villain, she can get inside a villain's head better than anyone, and Stygian's backstory mirrored her own, creating a connection. Twilight, Starlight, and everyone else realized the Pillars' mistake and fixed it.

Cozy Glow is completely unrepentant. Rather than fruitfully embracing the MoF, she went after it to steal more power and magic. That's why she worked to get really close with everyone, especially the CMCs and Twilight. That's why she was so polite to evryone. It was all a manipulative setup. When her plan failed, she showed no remorse and tried to escape. Magic she doesn't show, but is as equally dangerous as Tirek. Tartarus is her deserved fate.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Dethde 20]

Just now, Dark Qiviut said:

  Hide contents

1. Punishing Starlight would've been one of the biggest mistakes the show ever made. Starlight won her battle versus Twilight, but when offered to give the Magic of Friendship a second chance, she accepted it. Starlight was capable of reforming and redeeming, and the ReMane Seven knew this. That's why Starlight became her pupil.
2. The Elements's rainbow blast helped Luna let go of the jealousy and anger she harbored. The Princesses chose to reunite.
3. Stygian became evil as a result of feeling betrayed and left out despite being the one to help beat every evil imaginable at the time. While everyone justifiably so chose to send the Pony of Shadows back to Limbo, Starlight investigated to locate the root of thee problem to search for a real fix. Being an ex-villain, she can get inside a villain's head better than anyone, and Stygian's backstory mirrored her own, creating a connection. Twilight, Starlight, and everyone else realized the Pillars' mistake and fixed it.

Cozy Glow is completely unrepentant. Rather than fruitfully embrace the MoF, she went after it to steal more power and magic. That's why she worked to get really close with everyone, especially the CMCs and Twilight. That's why she was so polite. It was all a manipulative setup. When her plan failed, she showed no remorse and tried to escape. Magic she doesn't show, but is as equally dangerous as Tirek. Tartarus is her deserved fate.

 

Spoiler

However twilight didn't even give cozy glow a question or a stern talk, but instead sent her straight to tartarus, Starlight saw that she was literally destroying the world, not ruling it, not ruling a school, but destroying the world, which is a much easier choice to stop than cozy glow's plan, if twilight was oblivious to starlight's plan, she would have destroyed the world, who knows what would have happened if there was a person to talk to Cozy Glow? Cmcs?

I'm hoping that you mean that an outside force corrupted and fed luna with anger and jealousy, otherwise that comes off as the elements of harmony brainwashed luna into reforming.

Stygian was betrayed by the pillars, and instead of talking to them, he resorted to turning into the Pony of Shadows, which turns out to be much weaker than the pillars, The main thing I actually enjoyed about that episode was starlight's efforts, but seriously? Tirek was send to pony hell after commiting the crime of "Planned takeover", Pony of shadows commited the same crime, and actually was on the process of proceeding with it, it would be much more realistic to punish him in atleast some way, it would also be able to set up a better reuniting of the pillars and stygion, possibly with the pillars and starswirl helping stygion with making up his damages?

Starlight was also unrepentant until twilight showed her what she was really doing, she was stuck in her illusion, blinded by revenge, but twilight brought her out of it by showing her the cruel reality she would create. Cozy glow didn't understand friendship, she uses friends as a mean of power and control, and instead of bringing her out of her illusion, they banish her to tartarus. When starlight failed the first time, when chrysalis failed the second time, they showed not much (in starlight's case) to no remorse (in chrysalis' case), and both resorted to escaping. Discord was reformed for his unique talent and high creativity and intellect, Starlight was taken in as a pupil due to her tragedy of losing a friend and her talent, why can't the same apply for the young brainiac Cozy Glow? You're sending a filly to hell. 

To me atleast, Cozy Glow is a problem child, sending her directly to tartarus is just... wrongful to me.

Gotta love how her intellect is emphasized by all the students aside from the Student Six being sheep.

 

Spoiler

Starlight has been shown to emphasize and as you said, know a villain's thoughts, she can relate with cozy glow more than anypony there, but she did nothing, it just doesn't feel right.

 

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

1 hour ago, twichlove said:

Spoiler

However twilight didn't even give cozy glow a question or a stern talk, but instead sent her straight to tartarus, Starlight saw that she was literally destroying the world, not ruling it, not ruling a school, but destroying the world, which is a much easier choice to stop than cozy glow's plan, if twilight was oblivious to starlight's plan, she would have destroyed the world, who knows what would have happened if there was a person to talk to Cozy Glow? Cmcs?

 

Spoiler

She talked to Cozy about it, told her that friendship and power aren't truly one of the same. The Young Six got it, but Cozy didn't care. She only became friends with others to take their magic away at just the right time. She's a selfish, sadistic pony who didn't repent at any point. She could've apologized, but chose not to. She showed no remorse — one of the biggest reasons villains and antagonists get second chances in Equestria — at any point. (Neighsay kept his job precisely for that reason.) Rather than feel any sympathy, she doubled down on her plot and tried to flee to re-enact her plan.

 

Quote

Spoiler

Starlight was also unrepentant until twilight showed her what she was really doing, she was stuck in her illusion, blinded by revenge, but twilight brought her out of it by showing her the cruel reality she would create.

 

Spoiler

You answered your own point. When she saw the world she created, things changed. Starlight showed vulnerability, anger, and denial. She worked to fix the problem she caused. Cozy won't do that.

 

1 hour ago, twichlove said:

Spoiler

I'm hoping that you mean that an outside force corrupted and fed luna with anger and jealousy, otherwise that comes off as the elements of harmony brainwashed luna into reforming. 

 

Spoiler

Luna became Nightmare Moon, a personification of envy and anger out of control. The EoH turned her back to who she once was.

 

1 hour ago, twichlove said:

Spoiler

Stygian was betrayed by the pillars, and instead of talking to them, he resorted to turning into the Pony of Shadows, which turns out to be much weaker than the pillars, The main thing I actually enjoyed about that episode was starlight's efforts, but seriously? Tirek was send to pony hell after commiting the crime of "Planned takeover", Pony of shadows commited the same crime, and actually was on the process of proceeding with it, it would be much more realistic to punish him in atleast some way, it would also be able to set up a better reuniting of the pillars and stygion, possibly with the pillars and starswirl helping stygion with making up his damages?

 

Spoiler

Big differences.

1. Tirek is isn't interested in the MoF, only power. After he broke free from his prison, he began his quest to gain that power and become Equestria's king. The Box opened, and the Mane 6 used their temporary powerup to strip him of his power and send him back to Tartarus. Even in Tartarus, his villainy remains, double downing on his lust to drain Equestria's magic.
2. Stygian was sent to Limbo by the Pillar Six (and Star Swirl even said this measure was just to contain him over defeat), and most want to send him back. SG suspected a piece of the story was missing, and she only became more certain after the Map got involved. Additionally, they were going to use the Elements to banish Stygian, and its draconian measures of preserving friendship was an antithesis of what she believed the Elements should do. More importantly, Stygian believed in the Magic of Friendship and felt betrayed by the Pillars; Twilight and Starlight helped him exit that deep, dark hole that the Pony of Shadows fed upon.

 

[gingerninja666 487]

Spoiler

 

Something I'd like to point out as well about the fate of the villain.

Spoiler

Cozy was inside Twilight's school. She was a student there for months on end. she spent all that time getting close to the others, acting as a model student, becoming one of Twi's most faithful pupils. She got great grades, and presumably scored well on all her tests. And after all of that. What did Cozy actually learn? What did she take away from the school?

Absolutely nothing.

That's the most damning part about her to me. Someone like Starlight didn't understand. And she BECAME a student because she didn't know friendship other than her warped view of it. Cozy was quite literally living in the thick of it already a student. She was in a place built entirely around teaching you the magic of friendship. And apparently either none of it stuck at all, or Cozy didn't care. She would've been sitting there during AJ's honesty classes, listening and understanding the concepts enough to pass her tests with flying colours, but then turn around and lying through her teeth without a shred of remorse.

That's why I'm less torn up about her arrest than others seem to

 

[Dethde 20]

Just now, Dark Qiviut said:

  Reveal hidden contents

She talked to Cozy about it, told her that friendship and power aren't truly one of the same. The Young Six got it, but Cozy didn't care. She only became friends with others to take their magic away at just the right time. She's a selfish, sadistic pony who didn't repent at any point. She could've apologized, but chose not to. She showed no remorse — one of the biggest reasons villains and antagonists get second chances in Equestria — at any point. (Neighsay kept his job precisely for that reason.) Rather than feel any sympathy, she doubled down on her plot and tried to flee to re-enact her plan.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

You answered your own point. When she saw the world she created, things changed. Starlight showed vulnerability, anger, and denial. She worked to fix the problem she caused. Cozy won't do that.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Luna became Nightmare Moon, a personification of envy and anger out of control. The EoH turned her back to who she once was.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Big differences.

1. Tirek is isn't interested in the MoF, only power. After he broke free from his prison, he began his quest to gain that power and become Equestria's king. The Box opened, and the Mane 6 used their temporary powerup to strip him of his power and send him back to Tartarus. Even in Tartarus, his villainy remains, double downing on his lust to drain Equestria's magic.
2. Stygian was sent to Limbo by the Pillar Six (and Star Swirl even said this measure was just to contain him over defeat), and most want to send him back. SG suspected a piece of the story was missing, and she only became more certain after the Map got involved. Additionally, they were going to use the Elements to banish Stygian, and its draconian measures of preserving friendship was an antithesis of what she believed the Elements should do. More importantly, Stygian believed in the Magic of Friendship and felt betrayed by the Pillars; Twilight and Starlight helped him exit that deep, dark hole that the Pony of Shadows fed upon.

 

Spoiler

A sentence doesn't compare at all to the explanation and situation starlight was given, she didn't understand friendship, can't tell a 2nd grader that fails in math advanced algebra and have them understand it perfectly. You could have said the exact same thing about starlight up until her reformation, Starlight never apologized either until AFTER twilight's thorough explanation and advice. Starlight did the same at first, flee and attempt to get revenge, just not in the same way.

Spoiler

Because cozy wasn't snapped out of her illusion, there was no caring forgiving twilight for her, you can't change a filly's understanding about friendship by sending them to tartarus, hate is repelled by love, not aggression and more hate.

Spoiler

Luna turning into nightmare moon was out of her own envy and anger, and due to not being able to negotiate decided to lash out at her sister and brutally enforce a takeover.

So the EoH DID use brainwash magic? It wasn't a nightmare creature that manifested in her to emphasize her own negative emotions to the point of ruthlessness? Genuinely thought that that was the canon, and if it isn't, that puts the EoH in a very awkward spot for me.

Spoiler

Tirek however didn't even start the plan, while other villains were forgiven for their world ending plans very quickly, he was interested in all sorts of magic, as long as it'd enable him to reach rulerhood, and then plot armor strikes, yes. I don't see any reason for his lust of power to decrease in tartarus, it'd only increase the will of revenge and hatred of ponies.

Spoiler

Being sent to limbo is much less painful and mentally enduring as being stuck in hell, especially when hell's this level of blandness. I did enjoy starlight's involvement, and it made sense, however what DIDN'T make sense was the harsh unwillingness to speak on both stygion and the pillar's side, not even Somnambula, and Mistmane were attempting to socialize, the elements of harmony had to Stone discord, but was able to "Cure" Nightmare Moon of her antagonistic character, why would the elements Banish stygion when other options are available? Especially seeing how weak the Pony of Shadows was when it hasn't emerged in full power, I understand that stygion has returned to normal and is no longer willing to drown Equestria in shadows out of spite and feeling betrayed, but seriously? Just letting him have it free like that? Not even slight punishment for a started attempt of taking over Equestria? The Pillar's vision of defeating a villain is to banish and contain whilst believing they're too far gone, The Mane Seven's vision is that villains should always deserve another chance, and that punishment isn't necessary, what i personally would enjoy greatly would be a mix of both, a punishment for previous actions however allowing the villain to be reformed into society.

Same for Cozy Glow, i strongly disagree with the fact that they're willing to put a problem child in pony hell possibly for ever due to one incomplete takeover of a school and a misunderstanding twisted vision of friendship.

 

[Dethde 20]

6 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Something I'd like to point out as well about the fate of the villain.

  Hide contents

Cozy was inside Twilight's school. She was a student there for months on end. she spent all that time getting close to the others, acting as a model student, becoming one of Twi's most faithful pupils. She got great grades, and presumably scored well on all her tests. And after all of that. What did Cozy actually learn? What did she take away from the school?

Absolutely nothing.

That's the most damning part about her to me. Someone like Starlight didn't understand. And she BECAME a student because she didn't know friendship other than her warped view of it. Cozy was quite literally living in the thick of it already a student. She was in a place built entirely around teaching you the magic of friendship. And apparently either none of it stuck at all, or Cozy didn't care. She would've been sitting there during AJ's honesty classes, listening and understanding the concepts enough to pass her tests with flying colours, but then turn around and lying through her teeth without a shred of remorse.

That's why I'm less torn up about her arrest than others seem to

 

Spoiler

To me at least, Cozy is a problem child, she views friendship in a calculated way and sees it as a tool for Power, she could get great grades in the school, but her overall vision of friendship twists that in a disastrous way, what if she heard AJ's "Honest Apple" Lesson? Her head most likely sees her lies as "Lying is fine as long as it's for a greater cause, to obtain and make an abundance of friends and thus, power." Being a calculator doesn't make you mentally superior, getting questions correctly doesn't make you understand every bit of the lesson others are tutoring, especially for Cozy Glow.

 

[gingerninja666 487]

10 minutes ago, twichlove said:

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To me at least, Cozy is a problem child, she views friendship in a calculated way and sees it as a tool for Power, she could get great grades in the school, but her overall vision of friendship twists that in a disastrous way, what if she heard AJ's "Honest Apple" Lesson? Her head most likely sees her lies as "Lying is fine as long as it's for a greater cause, to obtain and make an abundance of friends and thus, power." Being a calculator doesn't make you mentally superior, getting questions correctly doesn't make you understand every bit of the lesson others are tutoring, especially for Cozy Glow.

 

Spoiler

I'm just pointing out the difference between Starlight and Cozy. Starlight had no teaching at all. She knew nothing but the version of friendship she made up in her head. Cozy was inundated with Twilight's curriculum for months and learned basically nothing from it. If Twilight sat her down, who's to say she'd listen then? She didn't listen the entire time she was at the school. You can't have an entire class built around honesty, that you go to every day, and still think it's ok to not only lie, but gleefully lie.

 

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

1 hour ago, gingerninja666 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm just pointing out the difference between Starlight and Cozy. Starlight had no teaching at all. She knew nothing but the version of friendship she made up in her head. Cozy was inundated with Twilight's curriculum for months and learned basically nothing from it. If Twilight sat her down, who's to say she'd listen then? She didn't listen the entire time she was at the school. You can't have an entire class built around honesty, that you go to every day, and still think it's ok to not only lie, but gleefully lie.

 

Spoiler

I see quite a few people throw around the idea that Starlight is some kind of psychopath or sociopath, but Cozy Glow is so much closer to that kind of condition it’s not even funny. She doesn’t care about anyone else, and that’s why she wasn’t reformed.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by ShootingStar159

[YoshiAngemon 223]

Who do you blame, when your kid is a BRAT?
Pampered and spoiled like a siamese CAT?
Blaming your kid is a lie and a SHAME!
You know exactly who's to BLAME!
THE MOTHER AND THE FATHER!

 

Spoiler

I imagine that her parents, if any would feel ashamed of themselves. Tartarus is okay, but as Johnny Test teaches us, there is nothing worse than the wrath of Mommy, except for Hugh Test in Johnny's case.

 

[Goat-kun 2,498]

15 hours ago, R.D.Dash said:

At least they are trying to be hardcore, they had sent an underage yet insane child into pony Azkaban, probably for life too because we never saw the trial

That's just us overthinking. All the hardcore things have been squandered.

• Everfree - TERMINATED

• Non-pone empires - TERMINATED

• Hollow Shades - TERMINATED

• Tartarus - TERMINATED

 

It appears some are having trouble with Starlight vs. Cozy debate. Allow me to explain:

[The Nth Doctor 652]

Can we just celebrate that

Spoiler

THE ROYAL GUARD WAS FINALLY USEFUL AFTER EIGHT YEARS

That alone makes this episode worth it

[RulesofRarity 489]

13 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

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1. Punishing Starlight would've been one of the biggest mistakes the show ever made. Starlight won her battle versus Twilight, but when offered to give the Magic of Friendship a second chance, she accepted it. Starlight was capable of reforming and redeeming, and the ReMane Seven knew this. That's why Starlight became her pupil.

 

Spoiler

Being repentant does not mean one should not recieve consequences for their actions. The issue with Starlight is that she never recieved any consequences for any of her actions, she was forgiven automatically by those villagers whereas other reformed villians such as Sunset and Luna faced ostracization and the Mane 6(barring Fluttershy)were still very wary of Discord even after Keep Calm and Flutter on. And even though the Mane 6 were the first ponies to give Starlight a chance she had no problem forcing them to obey her will.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by RulesofRarity

[RulesofRarity 489]

9 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

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I see quite a few people throw around the idea that Starlight is some kind of psychopath or sociopath, but Cozy Glow is so much closer to that kind of condition it’s not even funny. She doesn’t care about anyone else, and that’s why she wasn’t reformed. 

 

Spoiler

That's because she is, she lost one friend and she reacted in literally the most extreme way possible by starting a literal cult and then procceded to trick people into giving up their Cutie Marks. And she still suffers from these extreme reactions in practically every situation she's been put in since her reformation.

 

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

@RulesofRarity

Spoiler

1. Starlight lost her only friend as a filly due to circumstances beyond her control. An event like what she went through can paint her whole worldview for the rest of her life. Cutie marks were a trauma trigger to her, and she concocted that spell and created that cult so it never happens again.
2. The RM5 were initially defensive of Starlight after she, Twi, and Spike returned from that time loop, but after Twilight explained everything, they eased up. Having her suffer more consequences doesn't work, because she's asking for help, and adding more just piles it on, a complete contradiction of what FIM stands for. Exiling her won't work, because you're restarting and proving her right. Punishment won't work for reasons stated already. Teaching her and helping her evolve is what will truly help her grow.

 

[gingerninja666 487]

Spoiler

I'm really happy that Neighsay turned. It's a nice payoff to how cartoonishly racist he was.

 

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Just now, gingerninja666 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm really happy that Neighsay turned. It's a nice payoff to how cartoonishly racist he was.

 

Spoiler

Ditto. And of the three antagonists in the finale, he was the only one whose reformation makes sense in any way.

 

[RulesofRarity 489]

1 hour ago, Dark Qiviut said:

@RulesofRarity

  Hide contents

1. Starlight lost her only friend as a filly due to circumstances beyond her control. An event like what she went through can paint her whole worldview for the rest of her life. Cutie marks were a trauma trigger to her, and she concocted that spell and created that cult so it never happens again. 
2. The RM5 were initially defensive of Starlight after she, Twi, and Spike returned from that time loop, but after Twilight explained everything, they eased up. Having her suffer more consequences doesn't work, because she's asking for help, and adding more just piles it on, a complete contradiction of what FIM stands for. Exiling her won't work, because you're restarting and proving her right. Punishment won't work for reasons stated already. Teaching her and helping her evolve is what will truly help her grow. 

  

Spoiler

1. Starlight's backstory is a contravince for the audience to feel sympathy for her and justify her actions. We are given no explaination as to why Starlight couldn't write letters to Sunburst after he left or just go to Canterlot to visit him, it's not like he died. Even worse than that her backstory relies on everyone around her being completely oblivious to this filly's sadness, are we supposed to believe that no one(including Starlight's overbearing father) didn't notice her sadness and didn't try to help her? And if she lost a friend due to a cutie mark, why couldn't' she just make friends with someone who already has their's, that's what she ultimately ends up doing anyway.

2. They were defensive for like 2 seconds, it took an entire season before the rest of the Mane 6 began to trust Discord even with Fluttershy fighting in his corner. Instead of rewarding her with a position of privilege, they should've sent her back to the village to earn back the trust of the ponies she screwed over but instead of them mistrusting her and not buying her turnaround(like how the Canterlot High Students didn't buy Sunset's turnaround despite the fact she was claiming to be a better person) they forgave her as part of a montage.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by RulesofRarity

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

 

1 hour ago, Dark Qiviut said:

@RulesofRarity

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1. Starlight lost her only friend as a filly due to circumstances beyond her control. An event like what she went through can paint her whole worldview for the rest of her life. Cutie marks were a trauma trigger to her, and she concocted that spell and created that cult so it never happens again.
2. The RM5 were initially defensive of Starlight after she, Twi, and Spike returned from that time loop, but after Twilight explained everything, they eased up. Having her suffer more consequences doesn't work, because she's asking for help, and adding more just piles it on, a complete contradiction of what FIM stands for. Exiling her won't work, because you're restarting and proving her right. Punishment won't work for reasons stated already. Teaching her and helping her evolve is what will truly help her grow.

 

I applaud your willingness to try and use reason, but we both know it’s useless, it’s been years now, and they’ve had people try and reason with them probably dozens of times. They’re more attached to their opinions than they are to facts, it’s always best to ignore these kinds of people than to try and ignite another stale argument that will only lead nowhere.

[gingerninja666 487]

I'm just tired of Starlight debates at this point. She wasn't even a big part of this finale.

 

Though I will say, the reason they treat Discord like a dick is because his entire personality is that of an asshole. Whenever he shows up he acts shady and suspicious and like a troll. He's just not pleasant a lot of the time. Any time he's not like that, they treat him a lot better.

Edited August 30, 2018 by gingerninja666

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14 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

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I'm just pointing out the difference between Starlight and Cozy. Starlight had no teaching at all. She knew nothing but the version of friendship she made up in her head. Cozy was inundated with Twilight's curriculum for months and learned basically nothing from it. If Twilight sat her down, who's to say she'd listen then? She didn't listen the entire time she was at the school. You can't have an entire class built around honesty, that you go to every day, and still think it's ok to not only lie, but gleefully lie.

 

Spoiler

Starlight had no teaching, cozy glow has a messed up head, there's a difference between a stern talk and day to day lessons, starlight wasn't convinced until she was pulled out of her messed up vision, i'm not saying that cozy glow should leave without punishment, my point is that cozy glow didn't deserve eternal suffering in Tartarus, just because you've put a child through an entire semester of honesty classes doesn't mean that they'd get entirely what the teacher is attempting to teach, especially with what Cozy Glow's mentality has been shown to be. It's not entirely certain that Cozy Glow would get the message from first time teachers with how messed up her vision is. Another thing i'd like to point out is that cozy had little to no backstory, there would be much more people sympathizing for her if say, her parents passed away.

In conclusion, i agree that you have a point, her constant stream of lies means that she either completely ignored the lessons, or twisted them in a horrifying way.