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Nightmare Muffin

Do the past generations of MLP deserve all the hate?

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I was all ready to pump out an an extremely lengthy and long-winded post presenting both the pros and cons of the “great debate” that is this subject, because Bronies (most of you guys, anyway) seem to have a searing, insatiable hatred for whatever reasons, on anything that isn’t g4. But then I thought to myself “why bother?”. Most people on the internet don’t care to read anything beyond 3 sentences, and I’m sure by now, most of you guys have stopped reading this op, and no matter what arguments and evidence that I may give in support and opposition of the matter, people will continue to hold to their own opinions of the past gens.

 

So, instead of wasting my time, I’m just going to point out one thing and ask- does it even really matter? It’s little pieces of plastic in the shape of ponies, that- through all iterations (except for g2) have their shows be pretty much glorified product placement adverts. What grounds do we have to hate on any gen, when each one has its flaws and shining moments? Can’t we just enjoy the ride in all its forms, and appreciate and embrace differences?

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Generations two and three kind of deserve the criticism as both of them weren't exactly well received. Generation one on the other is one that deserves the utmost respect even if the foundation is shaky at times. Without it, we wouldn't have what we do now.

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Do past Generations have problems? Yes. Are they the worst thing on Earth? No. 

As Ganondorf8 said, without the previous generations (Particularly Generation 1) we ultimately wouldn't have what we currently do, as the previous generations layed the groundwork that established the series. In that regard, it's important to understand the vital role the previous generations have played. 

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2 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

I was all ready to pump out an an extremely lengthy and long-winded post presenting both the pros and cons of the “great debate” that is this subject, because Bronies (most of you guys, anyway) seem to have a searing, insatiable hatred for whatever reasons, on anything that isn’t g4. But then I thought to myself “why bother?”. Most people on the internet don’t care to read anything beyond 3 sentences, and I’m sure by now, most of you guys have stopped reading this op, and no matter what arguments and evidence that I may give in support and opposition of the matter, people will continue to hold to their own opinions of the past gens.

 

So, instead of wasting my time, I’m just going to point out one thing and ask- does it even really matter? It’s little pieces of plastic in the shape of ponies, that- through all iterations (except for g2) have their shows be pretty much glorified product placement adverts. What grounds do we have to hate on any gen, when each one has its flaws and shining moments? Can’t we just enjoy the ride in all its forms, and appreciate and embrace differences?

The TV series have Improved however the toy line is seriously dumb down.

Generation 1 Toys are Epic, at least they had a mix of variety. Not like 50 rainbow dashes, Each one Tweaked to resell back to the Victims.

Generation 2 toys Epic Fail They were like action Figurines..

Generation 3 Toys were an Improvment, however they start to get lazy with rerelease of the same toy, with a tweak improvment, however still the same dam pony.  however the tv series Was Horrid, Darling Darling Darling... Great for babies and pre-schoolers  However i hate watching that show more than anything. all girls no boys.. 

G4 TV Series Mega Improvment  however toys i never bought one. im not going stuff my house with 50 rarity one is Way enough thank you. 

 

no one will beat g1 toys, and the G1 At lease hat some creative stories, 

 

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My only gripe I have against G1 was it not being good enough to wrangle me in like a few of the other "girl" cartoons of the time, resulting in me never giving G4 a look until much, much later.

I'm going to watch it at some point when I have a lot of time to kill, but even now, the animation just feels... weird. And I don't mean because they're more horselike, but it just feels... clunky? Not sure how else to describe it.

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2 hours ago, Ganondorf8 said:

Generations two and three kind of deserve the criticism as both of them weren't exactly well received. Generation one on the other is one that deserves the utmost respect even if the foundation is shaky at times. Without it, we wouldn't have what we do now.

I would correct you with G3, as it was a hit with the target audience, lasting almost the whole 2000s. G2 is debatable, as it’s indeed the least successful, but lasted a bit more in Europe

59 minutes ago, bornAgainEquestrian said:

My only gripe I have against G1 was it not being good enough to wrangle me in like a few of the other "girl" cartoons of the time, resulting in me never giving G4 a look until much, much later.

I'm going to watch it at some point when I have a lot of time to kill, but even now, the animation just feels... weird. And I don't mean because they're more horselike, but it just feels... clunky? Not sure how else to describe it.

Maybe because they move with less frames :mlp_icwudt:. It’s an 80s cartoon, you can’t expect the same animation fluidity as today :orly:

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1 minute ago, Steve Piranha said:

Maybe because they move with less frames :mlp_icwudt:. It’s an 80s cartoon, you can’t expect the same animation fluidity as today :orly:

It's more complicated than that because there are other 80's cartoons that don't give me this feeling. Unless MLP's frames per second was noticably less than other cartoons.

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Just now, bornAgainEquestrian said:

It's more complicated than that because there are other 80's cartoons that don't give me this feeling. Unless MLP's frames per second was noticably less than other cartoons.

Don’t remember much of 80s cartoons to make a comparison, but I’m sure that’s the case with 80s horses, or could be the stiffness in the animation :huh:

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1 hour ago, bornAgainEquestrian said:

My only gripe I have against G1 was it not being good enough to wrangle me in like a few of the other "girl" cartoons of the time, resulting in me never giving G4 a look until much, much later.

I'm going to watch it at some point when I have a lot of time to kill, but even now, the animation just feels... weird. And I don't mean because they're more horselike, but it just feels... clunky? Not sure how else to describe it.

what did MLP in the 80's lack that other 'girl cartoons' have? Last I checked, g1 MLP was chock full of fantastic adventures to far off lands, fantasy and mythic creatures, songs, AND still had time for teaparties and dress up.

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2 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

what did MLP in the 80's lack that other 'girl cartoons' have? Last I checked, g1 MLP was chock full of fantastic adventures to far off lands, fantasy and mythic creatures, songs, AND still had time for teaparties and dress up.

Depth. See Jem and the Holograms. 

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Just now, Jeric said:

Depth. See Jem and the Holograms. 

For what I saw in Recue at Midnight Castle, I can bouch for that. It’s a charming adventure show, but it’s standard, and the ponies are rather generic. For a reason people remember Megan and the villains more :catface:

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58 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

what did MLP in the 80's lack that other 'girl cartoons' have? Last I checked, g1 MLP was chock full of fantastic adventures to far off lands, fantasy and mythic creatures, songs, AND still had time for teaparties and dress up.

Yeah, I really don't know what it was. Maybe just that it required far more suspension of disbelief than pretty much... ANYTHING else that was out at the time (except maybe Strawberry Shortcake and Smurfs). Nearly everything else, girls shows included, were much more sci-fi, or at least, were a bit more grounded. It's not something that bothers me anymore, but I definitely remember being pretty confused. Though the presence of the two human characters (who were just, sort of... there...) might not have helped because it was like they were trying to say that Dream Valley WAS linked to Earth, but made no attempt (at least in the episodes I remember watching) to show how that relationship impacted either world.

51 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

For what I saw in Recue at Midnight Castle, I can bouch for that. It’s a charming adventure show, but it’s standard, and the ponies are rather generic. For a reason people remember Megan and the villains more :catface:


Heh, I didn't even realize it watching G4... Tirek was the scariest thing I ever saw and I had a LOT of emotion and anxiety getting through that episode. Not until somebody told me when I was describing something from G1 that terrified me (enough that it is one of the few things in all of my 80's watching, up against the likes of R-rated films that I can remember being afraid of), was I informed that this as well, was also the work of Tirek.

Edited by bornAgainEquestrian

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22 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

Don’t remember much of 80s cartoons to make a comparison, but I’m sure that’s the case with 80s horses, or could be the stiffness in the animation :huh:

I watch a lot of 80s cartoons, IMO G1 MLP was better animated then say, He-Man and Filmation's Ghostbusters, but not as good as Superfriends or The Real Ghostbusters. Tales from what I've seen (a whole two episodes) is actually quite well animated for the time, with great backgrounds and a few standout moments. Even though G4 is technically better animated, the style is still really limiting in what they can do, which is why part of me prefers the way G1 was done.

But yeah, G1 MLP had some creative storylines to say the least. I remember reading that writers for G1 media were limited in what they could do by Hasbro, so they had to think outside the box a lot. I really like the stories they tended to tell, they were pretty varied and unique from what i've seen, which is only a handful of stories so far. 

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1 hour ago, Steve Piranha said:

I would correct you with G3, as it was a hit with the target audience, lasting almost the whole 2000s.

Okay, I'll admit that I was wrong about generation three. Generation 3.5 on the other hand... I don't think anyone can defend that one. I still stand by generation two not being all that good though it had potential.

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6 hours ago, Ganondorf8 said:

Okay, I'll admit that I was wrong about generation three. Generation 3.5 on the other hand... I don't think anyone can defend that one. I still stand by generation two not being all that good though it had potential.

G3 got three changes: first was G3.5, which they got bigger heads in smaller bodies. Then there where Newborn Cuties, even more deformed. Dunno about G3.5, but sure, only insane persons would defend Newborn Cuties, at least the animation :dash:

7 hours ago, Jordan D said:

I watch a lot of 80s cartoons, IMO G1 MLP was better animated then say, He-Man and Filmation's Ghostbusters, but not as good as Superfriends or The Real Ghostbusters. Tales from what I've seen (a whole two episodes) is actually quite well animated for the time, with great backgrounds and a few standout moments. Even though G4 is technically better animated, the style is still really limiting in what they can do, which is why part of me prefers the way G1 was done.

But yeah, G1 MLP had some creative storylines to say the least. I remember reading that writers for G1 media were limited in what they could do by Hasbro, so they had to think outside the box a lot. I really like the stories they tended to tell, they were pretty varied and unique from what i've seen, which is only a handful of stories so far. 

Like I’ve mentioned, I hardly have any memories of 80s cartoons, that was all a supposition after all. BTW, MLP Tales is technically a 90s show :fluttershy:

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4 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

Like I’ve mentioned, I hardly have any memories of 80s cartoons, that was all a supposition after all. BTW, MLP Tales is technically a 90s show :fluttershy:

Hmm... alright. I reeeeally need to give this a second look because it's likely that my brain blended them all together. "Tales" is the themesong I remember the best, so I might be mixing things up.

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7 minutes ago, bornAgainEquestrian said:

Hmm... alright. I reeeeally need to give this a second look because it's likely that my brain blended them all together. "Tales" is the themesong I remember the best, so I might be mixing things up.

It’s possible you mixed it because, despite MLP Tales being made in the 90s, is still G1

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They don't deserve hate necessarily, but they deserve a LOT of criticism, at least Gen 3 does. As for Gen 1 and Gen 2, I've watched neither of them. From what I've heard though, Gen 1 is pretty decent and Gen 2 is probably only slightly better than Gen 3.

 

As for Gen 3, the animation is horrific, and the characters aren't nearly as fleshed out as those in FiM from what I've seen. In fact they seem awfully simplistic... Also, I could tell no real plot from the bit I had watched. It didn't seem like anything specific was really happening. But yet again, I only watched some of the first episode before I HAD to stop for my sanity's sake.

 

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I never saw the older cartoons, but the toys themselves are a lot uglier than the G4 ponies. Like, waaaay uglier.

But when I was a kid, I had a beloved G3 Pinkie Pie toy. <3 It was one of my favorite toys. I still remember pulling it out of my basket on Easter and having a heyday with it. So the older generation of ponies has a place in my heart. 

Edited by starrymiss

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23 hours ago, Dusk Noire said:

They don't deserve hate necessarily, but they deserve a LOT of criticism, at least Gen 3 does. As for Gen 1 and Gen 2, I've watched neither of them. From what I've heard though, Gen 1 is pretty decent and Gen 2 is probably only slightly better than Gen 3.

 

As for Gen 3, the animation is horrific, and the characters aren't nearly as fleshed out as those in FiM from what I've seen. In fact they seem awfully simplistic... Also, I could tell no real plot from the bit I had watched. It didn't seem like anything specific was really happening. But yet again, I only watched some of the first episode before I HAD to stop for my sanity's sake.

 

considering the fact that g2 didn't have a tv series, there was no g2 to "watch". The past gens have flaws which merit critique, sure, but so does g4. And really don't think that it's fair to judge things such as animation from the 80's and comparing it to better, more advanced  animation from now, which wasn't around back then. 

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On 9/2/2018 at 4:27 PM, Nightmare Muffin said:

I was all ready to pump out an an extremely lengthy and long-winded post presenting both the pros and cons of the “great debate” that is this subject, because Bronies (most of you guys, anyway) seem to have a searing, insatiable hatred for whatever reasons, on anything that isn’t g4. But then I thought to myself “why bother?”. Most people on the internet don’t care to read anything beyond 3 sentences, and I’m sure by now, most of you guys have stopped reading this op, and no matter what arguments and evidence that I may give in support and opposition of the matter, people will continue to hold to their own opinions of the past gens.

 

So, instead of wasting my time, I’m just going to point out one thing and ask- does it even really matter? It’s little pieces of plastic in the shape of ponies, that- through all iterations (except for g2) have their shows be pretty much glorified product placement adverts. What grounds do we have to hate on any gen, when each one has its flaws and shining moments? Can’t we just enjoy the ride in all its forms, and appreciate and embrace differences?

Hi, as this discussion is about past generations, it has been moved to the appropriate board.

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With regards to the animation quality, the first couple of films (Midnight Castle, Catrina, and then the 'Movie' [with the Smooze]) were above average for the time, as the first two were TV movies rather than TV series, so they cost considerably more to make. That first MLP Movie was actually a proper theatre movie. That plus the Transformers Movie (and a GI Joe Movie that got diverted into a direct-to-video release) almost broke Hasbro as a company due to cost overruns and poor returns.

The first series proper (My Little Pony 'n Friends) was about normal for TV animation quality. All of which was done by the same animation studios as the original Transformers and GI Joe cartoons, which started as an animation studio for commercials and the like. So yeah, they're a bit stuttery as if they're on 15-20 frames per second rather than the standard 24, but that's not unusual for TV cartoons at the time. The next series (My Little Pony Tales) was a bit cheaper as Hasbro skipped the middleman (Marvel) and went directly to the animation studio to cut costs. It was a bit more in line with the lower-end Hanna Barbera stuff, which could get *really* cheap.

The g3 animations (it wasn't really a series) was weird, animation-quality-wise. They spent time making sure every lock of mane wibbled around independently at first, and yet in the third... episode? kinda... random characters had dark black outlines that made them seem like they were drawn in a different art-style. I'm not sure what was going on there. It seemed to settle down in their fourth outing (A Very Minty Christmas), but the copy I have (VCR recorded from TV at the time) still had that low framerate issue. I don't know if the commercial copies are like that.

g3.5 the animation quality control shot up. The character designs were consistent, the animation quality was better, etc. I'm just not fond of the bobble-head artstyle personally. I honestly think the G4 character designs are still too head-heavy myself, but they're not quite as blatant as the g3.5 models.

The g3.75 or whatever that spawned the Newborn Cuties was a disaster, animation and art-wise, and that's all I need to say about that.

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G1: MLP n Friends was fun and still entertaining as an adult in small doses. I love the pony toys and the ponywear especially of this era, it has a nice amount of variety in poses, gimmicks, and colors.

G1: MLP Tales has some bad morals (be fake to attract a boyfriend) but also some ok morals. It's my favorite pre-G4 series.

G2: While these toys all had very similar poses and simpler symbols, I find them to be the cutest toys. The merchandise used a lot of, essentially, clip art of the same 4 ponies, at least in the US. It was simple but charming, and had some cool costumes and ponies. Also, someone said that they were bad because they're like action figures. Personally, I love joints on my toys because they can be posed for photos, even if it's just the head.

G3: I loved the cartoons that came with my toys as a kid, but most of them haven't aged very well. I only find any enjoyment from the Princess Promenade anymore, nostalgia aside. The toys, however, had gorgeous colors and a decent variety of poses.

G3.5: Some people collect the toys, which surprises me but I won't hate on them for it. The hair was bushy and soft on some of them, even if I don't find them visually appealing. The videos from that time looked boringly low budget with annoying voices, at least the newborn cuties animations. 

Edited by Khoufu
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Hey I will let you all know that I presented a power point on why G3 wasn't that bad. 

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1zXghKA5FWCf4cLdoLRIYhs593zEW0J8P8YpGp23jBbY/pub?start=false&amp;loop=false&amp;delayms=60000&amp;slide=id.p3

On 9/2/2018 at 10:41 PM, Steve Piranha said:

I would correct you with G3, as it was a hit with the target audience, lasting almost the whole 2000s.

Longer than that.

Spoiler

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

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