Issues with the School of Friendship Arc

[Jeric 46,834]

@Nightmare Muffin to prevent the Show Discussion forum from being bogged down and monopolozied with a torrent of mini threads regarding the educational theme of the show from one individual (which basically boils down to multiple points of "I really dislike the approach to the school") I'm merging these. Luckily you created a topic recently with a title that is a one size fits all for your complaints so it doesn't have to be addressed as spamming obsessive topics which isn't never good for diversified community discussion. 

[ManaMinori 4,143]

1 hour ago, Singe said:

No, they're not. They're pretty much just winging it by mixing friendship lessons with their normal skills of trade to fill time. I've said it before, Twilight has never addressed any of Neighsay's valid criticism and concerns.

Also to take into consideration that the Mane 5 have other responsibilities and we're suppose to suspend disbelief that they would drop everything to work at Twilight's school. 

at this stage, they really shouldn't be "wining it" as you say. I mean, they've even shown just how unprepared the mane 6 are if they get called on a friendship mission and have to leave the school unattended. Let alone their businesses.

[Megas 27,063]

I love this mentality how the show has constantly showed the characters to be a good sign of guidance and wisdom many times before season 8 and have shown that they are capable of being good teachers, but then all it takes is one shittily written episode that only exists to prop up new characters and suddenly they were never good teachers

[MangoFoalix 24,898]

1 hour ago, This Whomps said:

I love this mentality how the show has constantly showed the characters to be a good sign of guidance and wisdom many times before season 8 and have shown that they are capable of being good teachers, but then all it takes is one shittily written episode that only exists to prop up new characters and suddenly they were never good teachers

The funny thing is that I actually agree with you. The whole negativity around the mane six is a bit ridiculous.

[CypherHoof 26,479]

1 hour ago, This Whomps said:

I love this mentality how the show has constantly showed the characters to be a good sign of guidance and wisdom many times before season 8 and have shown that they are capable of being good teachers, but then all it takes is one shittily written episode that only exists to prop up new characters and suddenly they were never good teachers

A sadly common thing though - where character development is totally forgotten to make writing the plot easier for the current episode, no matter what damage that does to the overall story... We might try to excuse why the characters would suddenly act that way, but in fact "lazy writing" is the out-of-band answer.

[Carolina 212]

As a teacher myself, my biggest problem with the School of Friendship is that none of the Mane 6 are really qualified to be teachers. I'm not saying they don't know their elements well, but rather, knowing something well and knowing actual pedagogical techniques are two entirely different things! For example, I took two years of classes to learn about lesson planning, grading, differentiation, classroom management, etc.

Secondly, IRL teaching is a full time job! Not only do you spend 8 hours a day at school, but countless others planning your lessons. There is a saying about first year teachers, especially, having no life outside of teaching, because they are in the process of building the curriculum they will use every year in the future. But each of the Mane 6 has at least one other major obligation. Are we really to believe that Rarity can run three boutiques AND be a full-time Professor of Generosity AND an Element of Harmony, who can be called away to solve a Friendship Problem at a moment's notice AND still have time for her friends? Because we hardly ever see her (or the other Mane 6) in the classroom unless the story calls for it.

Also, as some of you mentioned above, some of the Mane 6's personalities don't seem cut out for teaching. Yeah, AJ and RD from "Non-Compete Clause" are the main offenders, but what about Pinkie Pie? Was she just skipping work the entire time she was Pinkamena in "Yakity-Sax?" Or did she just go to work and sit there like she was catatonic? And then she just up and moves away without telling any of her friends? We know she didn't tell the Head Mare about her leave of absence, because the Head Mare is Twilight! How did that work out for her students? Then, when the others go to get Pinkie Pie from Yakyakistan, what happens to their classes? 

It really feels like the series doesn't want to fully commit to this premise and that the writers just forget about the school unless it is convenient. 

[Ganondox 899]

On 8/13/2018 at 8:03 PM, Nightmare Muffin said:

with episodes like Non Compete Cause and The End in Friend, I really don't think so. The Mane 6 are having to be dumbed down and learn lessons that they should've earned early on- and have learned already-  in order for the Student 6 to learn anything, which seems contradictory, because in episodes like School Daze,  Non Compete Cause and Hearth's Warming Club, the Student 6 learn friendship in spite of the teachers stupidity and/ or their own differences.

They didn’t really learn any lessons in either episode though. And I think that’s a good thing, it shows no matter how much you know each other and how mature you’re become you’re going to have rocky moments, but you can make it through them. 

[ManaMinori 4,143]

There was a rather interesting analysis of Starlight that I came across by NuvaPrime on dA, which went into detail on Starlight's lack of development, and how- in a nutshell- she really doesn't deserve her "graduate of friendship"/ "Guidance Counselor" role and title, because she's proven that she really isn't; and how, with "On the road to Friendship" , it was made clear.

Spoiler

Quote

...And now we have to talk about Starlight. I don't want to. But we have to.

Up to a point, I was just questioning Starlight's character and only getting mildly annoyed with her inconsiderate moments. I mean, Trixie wasn't exactly being an angel herself, so I knew it would have to come out balanced in the end... but after she traded Trixie's trailer away?.. 

That scene genuinely made me feel unpleasant and the scenes with Starlight afterward just proceeded to make me mad. 

As I covered in my bullet-points above, Starlight had absolutely no right to basically sell off her best friend's property without ever even considering how her best friend would feel about that, JUST for the sake of her own comfort [let's not kid ourselves; when you never stop to consider how your friend feels about a change they SHOULD have a hand in, you're doing it for your own gain] 

And as I also covered above, what draws her back to her best friend is not the realization that she crossed a line, but the fact that travelling on her own with a big@$$ wagon is hard work, so when she finally apologizes and says that she had no right to do that; I have no reason to believe she's saying that for any reason other than to get back on Trixie's good side so that she'll make the travel easier. 

Argue me on this point if you dare [I'm sorry, but I'm not in the mood for an BS counterarguments right now] but then we have the added context of how inconsiderate Starlight was throughout the episode, how she spent almost all their bits on a falafel and ate the last of their pancake mix without even asking.

I stated earlier how Trixie isn't a saint herself, but throughout the episode we DO see Trix going out of her way to try and accommodate Starlight while GlimGlam herself almost NEVER considers Trix's feelings beyond saying 'sorry' a few times. All throughout Starlight appears extremely selfish and almost narcissistic at times in comparison to Trixie.

If it were just this episode, then it could be written off as just bad character writing, I mean look at most of the Mane-6 episodes this season alone; bad characterization can happen to good characters, so its arguably inevitable that it'll happen to Starlight at some point. 

But then you have to pull back even wider and consider the broader context; Starlight is the graduated student of Twilight Sparkle, Princess of Friendship, therefore making Starlight the first graduate of Friendship. She's also the School of Friendship's Guidance Counselor, supposedly a further testament to 'how far she's come'. So how does it reflect on the Graduate of Friendship when she behaves so inconsiderately to her best friend, whom herself has not had a real friend before Starlight? That the best lessons she learns from her time with her best friend is that she should shout at her when she's mad at her and that they shouldn't spend time alone together?

And as for whether or not she actually recognized that she crossed a very fine line in selling her best friend's wagon; anyone remember 'Every Little Thing She Does'? The episode where she pretty much mind-controls her supposed friends just for the selfish purpose of cheating on a homework assignment? I from day one have said that she never actually learned from that experience, that her apology sounded fake and insincere, despite everyone and their grandmother arguing otherwise... AND YET she proceeds to cast spells on both the Princesses and her childhood friend Sunburst ALL to suit her own personal gain.

Now we have a similar scenario where it appears that she only goes back and says sorry entirely for self-serving purposes; but by now I don't have reason to believe that she won't pull such a scummy stunt like this again or that she actually learned anything worthwhile from this. 

Pull back the camera even further and we have even more context to consider; ever since her 'journey' began at the start of season 6 she's been hailed as this wonderfully written character. Yet almost every time she has a 'great moment' its entirely due to the sudden and inexplicable ineptitude of other characters and her being the only one left with any basic common sense. And every time she screws up, she's usually acting selfishly, impulsively, and stupidly. 

With all the evidence on the table, I think what we have here in terms of 'character for Starlight' is an insecure borderline sociopath and cheater. She by all evidence fails at being any good at friendship, she can't control her impulsive urges, and even after becoming a guidance counselor she still fails to consider the feelings of her own best friend outside of how it'll benefit herself.

Call me a hater all you want, call me hopelessly biased against Starlight all you want, tell me I'm determined to hate this series and hate any change because its change all you want, patronize me for 'having so much hate in my heart' all you want; throw insults at me however much you want JUST BECAUSE I don't like the same things as you. Do it for all the good it'll ever do you.

But this episode breaks Starlight at an already weak seam, and what she did to Trixie and the way she went about it before and afterward makes it unforgivable in my eyes. And this on top of everything else? I'm not convinced she can or ever will change. 
 

 

So it seems to address the issue that Starlight, rather than coming to the realization that she's ever truly in the wrong, or have crossed a line with her friends, when something results due to her own actions- mind controlling the mane 6 to get a friendship lesson done quicker, switching cutie marks of the Princesses without their consent, endangering the hive of Changelings, infecting three innocent bystanders with her hostile emotions that were bottled up, and now trading off other people's personal property without consideration for them....it all seems like Starlight really isn't learning much of anything, and certainly not deserving of her status or titles of Friendship School councilor or graduate of the Princess of Friendship, because there's a trend of having her cone to the realization of all these scenarios- not that she crossed a line and offended or hurt her friends, but due to inconvenience on herself somehow. Her apologies aren't really genuine because of that, so it just  keeps happening.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Nightmare Muffin

[Iam 525]

I'll only ask about one thing, because the rest has solid arguments I can't argue with - in which episode Starlight (from what I understand) sells that Trixie's things and do with her bits "felala" or something? I watched every Starlight-in-1st-plan episode from S6 to S8 (E13) and can't recall that moment.

 

Even as a huge fan of beloved Starlight I support those arguments put in "spoiler" part, because I am also a sociopath and I know what it means to be egoist to the boundaries of morality.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

So, even though Starlight has never repeated any of her past mistakes, the fact that her inherent flaws push her towards certain kinds of mistakes means she hasn’t learned anything and doesn’t deserve any of the good things in her life? The fact she has a defined character that makes certain kinds of mistakes, just like every character on the show, means she’s unworthy?

Sure, whatever. 

[Iam 525]

3 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

So, even though Starlight has never repeated any of her past mistakes, the fact that her inherent flaws push her towards certain kinds of mistakes means she hasn’t learned anything and doesn’t deserve any of the good things in her life? The fact she has a defined character that makes certain kinds of mistakes, just like every character on the show, means she’s unworthy?

Sure, whatever. 

Good point. I personally think it's [the "spoiler" text] just a bit of exaggeration (I'm not saying that the arguments aren't logical) of the fact, that she's the pretty new character (compared to Mane 6) and the fact, that till this day some Bronies couldn't adapt to her existence. Also, some Bronies can't adapt to the weak writer skills. Well, it's just a point of view. I don't see any bigger problems with her [Starlight] and with eventual lack of development [writers].

[gingerninja666 487]

The thing about her using magic on people. I feel like that unfairly ignores ANY context in those episodes.

The next time she uses magic after Every Little Thing is All Bottled Up. Notice how she doesn't use magic on Trixie. Even though she easily could have. No, she uses it on herself because she knew that she might end up using magic on Trixie and she didn't trust herself.

Then, she uses it on the sisters in A Royal Problem, but look at how she used her magic. Every time before ARP she used her magic to "cheat" as OP put it. She was trying to sidestep a problem without actually solving it. She'd rather force Big Mac to speak than accept the fact that he doesn't like talking. She'd rather make the cast do a bunch of lessons than risk being a failure in their eyes. She'd rather remove her own emotions than confront Trixie about her behaviour. But with the sisters? No. She spent a good while actually figuring out what the problem was, and tried something else first. Then the magic she used had a proper function. It was to let them see how their sister operated, to give them some added perspective. There was a basis in the sisters reconciling of their own free will, using the information the spell would provide them. And despite that, Starlight had a guilt based nightmare that was so bad, Luna (the dream expert) concluded that it would damage Starlight's psyche if it wasn't stopped.

Then in Uncommon Bond, yes, she backslid a bit. But Sunburst is a mssive weakspot for her. Remember, the mere idea of seeing him again started to cause RINGING IN HER EARS. And even then, she showed him the scroll, and he looked excited for her to try it, and then as soon as he made it clear he was creeped out, she undid the spell.

So, yeah, I feel like people ignore the context of Star's magic use and how it has changed over time.

 

 

[Goat-kun 2,498]

26 minutes ago, Iam said:

Good point. I personally think it's [the "spoiler" text] just a bit of exaggeration (I'm not saying that the arguments aren't logical) of the fact, that she's the pretty new character (compared to Mane 6) and the fact, that till this day some Bronies couldn't adapt to her existence. Also, some Bronies can't adapt to the weak writer skills. Well, it's just a point of view. I don't see any bigger problems with her [Starlight] and with eventual lack of development [writers].

Strange opinion for a self-described sociopath. You are either being dishonest in order to manipulate the poor, innocent Starfoal, or you are a common internet denizen hiding behind yet another paper shield comprised of hollow words.

 

As far as Starlight is concerned, she will fade with the rest of them. Do realize though that there are some factors that can affect MLP. Bad writing does affect the show, but the show doesn't seem to be all that effective at peddling merchandise. Bad caretakers of the property, on the other appendage, will destroy it. Starlight is a product of both; a scar tissue in a dysfunctional organ. It is unfortunate that the true extent of such damaging design philosophy will only be apparent in another four years.

[Iam 525]

9 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Strange opinion for a self-described sociopath. You are either being dishonest in order to manipulate the poor, innocent Starfoal, or you are a common internet denizen hiding behind yet another paper shield comprised of hollow words.

 

I'm not what you're trying to describe me. And of course I support questioning strange things, as I do, and I may seem strange (because I am actually), however I'll cut discussion with: And what it takes, that this opinion is strange? This time it doesn't mean anything special, because I'm not a lier.

[Jeric 46,834]

@Nightmare Muffin merged your new thread about one of the main characters as faculty with your old one. 

 

[Goat-kun 2,498]

7 minutes ago, Iam said:

I'm not what you're trying to describe me. And of course I support questioning strange things, as I do, and I may seem strange (because I am actually), however I'll cut discussion with: And what it takes, that this opinion is strange? This time it doesn't mean anything special, because I'm not a lier.

You misunderstood. I was asking cause your opinion was that of a normie. The only thing one would consider strange would be its servile nature, but since we are where we are that kind of opinion is perfectly normal. So if you are a sociopath but you are writing like a normie, then some alarms should be triggered, wouldn't you agree?

[Iam 525]

1 minute ago, Goat-kun said:

You misunderstood. (...) The only thing one would consider strange would be its servile nature, but since we are where we are that kind of opinion is perfectly normal. So if you are a sociopath but you are writing like a normie, then some alarms should be triggered, wouldn't you agree?

 

I'm trying to be sort of pluralist and support both sides. I of course have an opinion, which can change or evolve quickly, because of my young age and susceptibility for some factors, althought I think both sides are right, because I do not like to be on the one side of the barricade. It's already in politics and that's enough. At the present moment someone could see and think "he has no his opinion, he's blindly following the others" - no, I have my opinion, just mixed: part of "rights" is on one side, part on another side. When it comes to discussion I know both sides' arguments and I either accept them both and support them both, accept one of them and kindly convicing with my reasonable arguments or either I don't accept any opinion and I argue with arguments "outside-of-the-box".

Eventual misunderstanding comes from my other perception of world (partially caused by Asperger Syndrome, but weirdly enough I am proud of having that syndrome). That's for now. I'm open for very nice polemics.

[gingerninja666 487]

8 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

There was a rather interesting analysis of Starlight that I came across by NuvaPrime on dA, which went into detail on Starlight's lack of development, and how- in a nutshell- she really doesn't deserve her "graduate of friendship"/ "Guidance Counselor" role and title, because she's proven that she really isn't; and how, with "On the road to Friendship" , it was made clear.

  Hide contents

 

So it seems to address the issue that Starlight, rather than coming to the realization that she's ever truly in the wrong, or have crossed a line with her friends, when something results due to her own actions- mind controlling the mane 6 to get a friendship lesson done quicker, switching cutie marks of the Princesses without their consent, endangering the hive of Changelings, infecting three innocent bystanders with her hostile emotions that were bottled up, and now trading off other people's personal property without consideration for them....it all seems like Starlight really isn't learning much of anything, and certainly not deserving of her status or titles of Friendship School councilor or graduate of the Princess of Friendship, because there's a trend of having her cone to the realization of all these scenarios- not that she crossed a line and offended or hurt her friends, but due to inconvenience on herself somehow. Her apologies aren't really genuine because of that, so it just  keeps happening.

Spoiler

Also, having just finished on the Road To Friendship, that point about her only wanting Trixie to make travel easier feels off. Because she'd already passed back through a lot of the most dangerous and difficult parts of the journey. The swamp, the crocodiles, the fire geysers. When she decides to go back, that means she had to pass through all of that stuff AGAIN just to pick Trixie back up. The thing that makes her go back is seeing the two mail ponies who had been inspired by her and Trix, and it made her feel guilty.

 

[RulesofRarity 489]

The major issue with Starlight isn’t her use of magic, it’s her tendency to go from 0 to 100 in a situation. The Mane 5 won’t do want I want them to do? Better force them to obey my will. Discord is annoying me? Lemme blast him with a giant laser beam. My best friend is moving away? Let me go start a cult and trick people into giving up their cutie marks. The two sisters won’t communicate? Lemme switch their cutie marks. 

This is her major character flaw and the writers have refused to acknowledge it despite the fact, it leads to her making the situation worse or just paints her in an incredibly nasty light. What’s worse is that she’s usually rewarded for her impulsiveness, her stupid and shortsighted plan in the “Cutie Remark” got her a position of privilege as the sole pupil to the Princess of Friendship, where other villains prior to this would’ve faced imprisonment or ostracization. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by RulesofRarity

[RulesofRarity 489]

On 8/14/2018 at 3:44 AM, Singe said:

No, they're not. They're pretty much just winging it by mixing friendship lessons with their normal skills of trade to fill time. I've said it before, Twilight has never addressed any of Neighsay's valid criticism and concerns.

Also to take into consideration that the Mane 5 have other responsibilities and we're suppose to suspend disbelief that they would drop everything to work at Twilight's school. 

I agree, there’s a rather disgusting implication that the only pony with valid criticism of Twilight’s school was a racist. It’s a contrivance to force the audience to side with the protagonists even though Neighsay was 100% right about everything he said regarding the school. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by RulesofRarity

[ManaMinori 4,143]

it has taken me a while to fully understand why season 8's theme of having a school didn't gel with me, and a lot of other people. It seemed really out of place for the Mane 6 to be setting up a school, the show itself addressed the issue, but just as quickly waved it away, the episodes where we got teaching lessons with them seemed like they weren't all that qualified to teach, and even when we got said school, there were many unanswered questions that still remain. It wasn't until I read this article by Adam Grant, an organizational psychologist (linked below), that I truly understood why FiM's season 8 and its Friendship school with the Mane 6 as its teachers doesn't work as it should.

Spoiler

I am not claiming any content or thoughts expressed in the quotes under the spoiler section of this OP as my own nor posting it as such.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/25/opinion/sunday/college-professors-experts-advice.html

Spoiler

Quote

If you want to be great at something, learn from the best. What could be better than studying physics under Albert Einstein?

A lot, it turns out. Three years after publishing his first landmark paper on relativity, Einstein taught his debut course at the University of Bern. He wasn’t able to attract much interest in the esoteric subject of thermodynamics: Just three students signed up, and they were all friends of his. The next semester he had to cancel the class after only one student enrolled. A few years later, when Einstein pursued a position at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, the president raised concerns about his lackluster teaching skills. Einstein eventually got the job after a friend vouched for him, but the friend admitted, “He is not a fine talker.” As his biographer Walter Isaacson summarized, “Einstein was never an inspired teacher, and his lectures tended to be regarded as disorganized.”

Although it’s often said that those who can’t do teach, the reality is that the best doers are often the worst teachers.

 

Two decades ago, I arrived at Harvard as an undergraduate excited to soak up the brilliance of professors who had won Nobels and Pulitzers. But by the end of the first month of my freshman year, it was clear that these world-class experts were my worst teachers. My distinguished art history professor raved about Michelangelo’s pietra serena molding but didn’t articulate why it was significant. My renowned astrophysics professor taught us how the universe seemed to be expanding, but never bothered to explain what it was expanding into (still waiting for someone to demystify that one).

 

It wasn’t that they didn’t care about teaching. It was that they knew too much about their subject, and had mastered it too long ago, to relate to my ignorance about it. Social scientists call it the curse of knowledge. As the psychologist Sian Beilock, now the president of Barnard College, writes, “As you get better and better at what you do, your ability to communicate your understanding or to help others learn that skill often gets worse and worse.”

I’ve come to believe that if you want to learn something new, there are three factors that you should keep in mind when choosing a teacher — whether it’s a professor or mentor or soccer coach.

 

First, pay attention to how long it has been since a teacher studied the material. Elite universities love to boast about how most of their classes are taught by top faculty. Yet most of my great teachers were graduate students. Because they had just learned the material themselves, they had an easier time remembering what it was like to be a beginner. Instead of studying under people who have learned the most, it can be wise to study under people who have learned the most recently.

Second, consider how difficult it was for the educator to master the material. We often gravitate toward prodigies like Einstein because their expertise seems so effortless. That’s a mistake. We should be learning from overachievers: the people who accomplish the most with the least natural talent and opportunity.

 

In high school and college, I competed as a springboard diver, and I once asked an Olympian if he had a trick for learning to do three and a half somersaults. His answer: Go up in a ball and spin fast. He was so naturally talented that he never had to learn the mechanics. He simply did it. The most useful explanation I got was from my coach, Eric Best, who had spent seven years trying to get that dive right and was able to walk me through the physics with stunning clarity. The physical limitations that prevented him from becoming an Olympic-caliber diver himself led him to gain the knowledge to become an Olympic-caliber coach.

Third, focus as much on how well the teacher communicates the material as on how well the teacher knows the material. Communication is especially hard for experts teaching basic classes. That might be one reason evidence shows that when college students take an introductory class with a lecturer who’s not on the tenure track, they go on to get higher grades in a more advanced class in that subject.

This is why I recommend creating separate tenure tracks for teachers and researchers. Instead of just learning from researchers who spend their days dividing cells in a lab or churning out code in front of a computer, you can take classes with people who study the most effective methods for teaching cell division and JavaScript.

Here’s another flaw in that “Those who can’t do, teach” canard: Teachers often turn into great doers.

After all, the best way to learn something is not to do it but to teach it. You understand it better after you explain it — and you remember it better after retrieving and sharing it.

As you gain experience studying and explaining a skill, you might actually improve your ability to execute that skill. A powerful example comes from a study of what happens when teachers become doers. Although appointing a business school professor as an executive sounds like a terrible idea, researchers managed to find more than 200 companies that did it. Compared with closely matched industry competitors, the companies with ex-professors in their executive ranks generated significantly higher revenues per employee, especially if those former teachers were in vice president roles where they could leverage their academic expertise. Knowledge from researching and teaching didn’t prevent them from making good decisions; it actually seemed to help.

In education, we often assume that a successful career qualifies someone to teach. It’s why business schools love to hire former executives as professors. But we’re doing it backward: We should be sending teachers out to run businesses.

Of course, there’s probably a selection bias in the data: Maybe only the competent professors landed executive jobs. But this reinforces my point that doing and teaching are distinct skills. Being good at one doesn’t mean you’re bad at the other.

Before universities recruit high achievers, it would be a good idea to find out whether they can teach. Before you seek out an expert as your teacher or coach, remember that it’s not just about what they know; it’s about how recently and easily they learned it, and how clearly and enthusiastically they communicate it. Studies of world-class scientists, musicians, athletes and artists reveal that they didn’t have top teachers or coaches from a young age; they started with a teacher or coach who made it fun and enjoyable to learn.

Being a great physicist doesn’t make you a great physics teacher. You don’t want to take your first physics class with Einstein. You want to learn from his protégé who has spent years figuring out how to explain what it would be like to chase a beam of light.

 

put as simply as possible, the Mane 6 aren't qualified to teach because they're experts at it, and while that may seem good and perfect as far as credentials go, because they are masters of the art and have done so since long ago, they are too far removed from the introductory course of the subject for it to be relevant to use who are just trying to learn the art of friendship, and it would be far more beneficial to learn from say, a graduate student (such as the CMC).

As the psychologist Sian Beilock, now the president of Barnard College, writes,   “As you get better and better at what you do, your ability to communicate your understanding or to help others learn that skill often gets worse and worse.”

[Jeric 46,834]

@Nightmare Muffin I merged your new topic on your issues with the school with your old topics on your issues with the school. I also updated the title so it better reflects general thoughts you would have going forward with the school concept. 

[Singe 2,109]

@Nightmare Muffin

Spoiler

Maud Pie is an actual expert of rocks with a degree. The Mane 6 are more like self-proclaimed experts in friendship because Twilight said so at the start of the season. Also at the start of the season Twilight was talked into tossing away expert teaching material to make it up from scratch, this is different from where Flim and Flam was able to take Twilight's lessons and adapt it to work for them.

 

[KH7672 1,604]

On 8/27/2018 at 2:58 PM, RulesofRarity said:

The major issue with Starlight isn’t her use of magic, it’s her tendency to go from 0 to 100 in a situation. The Mane 5 won’t do want I want them to do? Better force them to obey my will. Discord is annoying me? Lemme blast him with a giant laser beam. My best friend is moving away? Let me go start a cult and trick people into giving up their cutie marks. The two sisters won’t communicate? Lemme switch their cutie marks. 

This is her major character flaw and the writers have refused to acknowledge it despite the fact, it leads to her making the situation worse or just paints her in an incredibly nasty light. What’s worse is that she’s usually rewarded for her impulsiveness, her stupid and shortsighted plan in the “Cutie Remark” got her a position of privilege as the sole pupil to the Princess of Friendship, where other villains prior to this would’ve faced imprisonment or ostracization. 

So you want the writers to NOT take advantage of the character they've created? You and other viewers may see A problem with Starlight's characterization but why is it now THE problem? You talk like the writers use her to just make problems worse like she enters the scene "hey girls sorry to bother you but I kinda messed up and switch the princesses cutie marks. Oh Starlight (wah wah) You shouldn't do that. I know I'm sorry. Well don't do it again, come on girls let's fix this." And then she just disappears for the rest of the episode. (The only time you can say she disappears is A Royal Problem, but her action WAS the solution not the conflict so it made sense) THAT is a terribly written character who makes problems for someone else. But she doesn't, she makes problems for herself to face and learn almost like hey maybe that's the conflict of her episode. Starlight gives the writers a chance to go all out with this conflict to exaggerate it and in turn make a more memorable lesson. You can take a character to extremes when you've established they can do so and can work a lesson around it. That is not "refusing to develop" a character that is "taking advantage" of it to create a memorable story.

[RulesofRarity 489]

21 hours ago, KH7672 said:

So you want the writers to NOT take advantage of the character they've created? You and other viewers may see A problem with Starlight's characterization but why is it now THE problem? You talk like the writers use her to just make problems worse like she enters the scene "hey girls sorry to bother you but I kinda messed up and switch the princesses cutie marks. Oh Starlight (wah wah) You shouldn't do that. I know I'm sorry. Well don't do it again, come on girls let's fix this." And then she just disappears for the rest of the episode. (The only time you can say she disappears is A Royal Problem, but her action WAS the solution not the conflict so it made sense) THAT is a terribly written character who makes problems for someone else. But she doesn't, she makes problems for herself to face and learn almost like hey maybe that's the conflict of her episode. Starlight gives the writers a chance to go all out with this conflict to exaggerate it and in turn make a more memorable lesson. You can take a character to extremes when you've established they can do so and can work a lesson around it. That is not "refusing to develop" a character that is "taking advantage" of it to create a memorable story. 

I can't speak for others who criticize Starlight's character but for me THE major problem with her is her tendency to overreact and yes, this tendency does normally make situations worse not better. Her mind controlling the Mane 5 in order to solve friendship lessons more effectively made the situation worse not better. Did she learn a lesson here? No. Because in A Royal Problem, she once again uses her magic to sidestep a problem after the Princesses don't listen to her. What would she have done if her spell somehow failed? It's a shame because she was on the right track about how to solve the friendship problem between the sisters, her treating them like regular ponies and not princesses was spot on. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by RulesofRarity