PurpleWonderPower

Why I Hate MLP Season 8

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42 minutes ago, Kadeda said:

I personally disagree with a lot of what you are saying (When was Celestia acting like an immature kid? Why would you want everyone reformed?) but it seems like you've thought it through. I can give you that much but so far... I will say that I think season 8 is a very mediocre season. It's better than the worst seasons... (1,3,6) (Which for the record I still think are really good but something gotta be last.) but not quite on par with the best (5,7,4,2).

Celestia and Luna bicker like a pair of spoiled, immature brats in A Royal Problem, and Celestia adopts a rather immature persona in Horse Play. And I don't want everypony reformed, far from it, just that Flim and Flam and Lightning Dust are terrific characters who should have been reformed. And I'll admit Season 1 was nothing special, but neither was Season 8. And I absolutely adored Season 6, what with those masterpieces like The Gift of Maud Pie, or Gauntlet of Fire, or The Times They Are A Changelingnot to mention Viva Las Pegasus and To Where And Back Again. Season 6 was actually my second favourite season.

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1 hour ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

I love MLP, and have a great deal of fun being entertained by it. That's why Season 8 was such a disappointment: because I didn't, and it just felt good to write all this down.

Ohh that's a shame, at least you enjoyed writing it down.

I must say I had never thought too much about Flim and Flam, and everything you said about them makes perfect sense. Your attention to their speech and vocabulary was enjoyable to read.

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1 hour ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Plus, I am autistic, which means I see things the way they are.

Using autism as an excuse to shove your opinions down others throats and also using it as an excuse from you taking criticism is not allowed.

 

1 hour ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

These are not my "opinions," they are just straight facts I have noticed. 

They are your opinions. Saying they are facts is a straight lie and you should know that.

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14 minutes ago, DonMaguz said:

Ohh that's a shame, at least you enjoyed writing it down.

I must say I had never thought too much about Flim and Flam, and everything you said about them makes perfect sense. Your attention to their speech and vocabulary was enjoyable to read.

Thanks. To be honest, I had never really thought much about Flim and Flam, either, but when Friendship University came out, the difference was very noticeable, and it took me a while to figure out what it was.

4 minutes ago, TheTaZe said:

Using autism as an excuse to shove your opinions down others throats and also using it as an excuse from you taking criticism is not allowed.

 

They are your opinions. Saying they are facts is a straight lie and you should know that.

I'm not using autism as an excuse to shove opinions down others' throats, I'm just saying that I'm exceptionally good at figuring out when things are not right. And some of them are my opinions, granted, but some of them are not opinions, but facts, such as the OOC characters not acting like themselves, or the Cutie Map's functions. They're not opinions, they're just facts. Saying stuff is bad or good is an opinion. Saying stuff is right or wrong is a fact.

Edited by PurpleWonderPower

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4 minutes ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Thanks. To be honest, I had never really thought much about Flim and Flam, either, but when Friendship University came out, the difference was very noticeable, and it took me a while to figure out what it was.

I'm not using autism as an excuse to shove opinions down others' throats, I'm just saying that I'm exceptionally good at figuring out when things are not right. And some of them are my opinions, granted, but some of them are not opinions, but facts, such as the OOC characters not acting like themselves, or the Cutie Map's functions. They're not opinions, they're just facts.

Facts with little evidence to back up. The way you perceive something can and will be different from how someone else perceives it. Like for example, I don't exactly think around most of the season that the characters acted "out of character" or "the cutie map doesn't function correctly". They are opinions and trying to pass it off as a fact is not cool.

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6 minutes ago, TheTaZe said:

Facts with little evidence to back up. They way you perceive something can and will be different from how someone else perceives it. Like for example, I don't exactly think around most of the season that the characters acted "out of character" or "the cutie map doesn't function correctly". They are opinions and trying to pass it off as a fact is not cool.

But they aren't opinions. Opinions are what you think of something, say its quality, or its plot. A fact is just how somethings is. Like if I said "Spike has a crush on Rarity," or "Twilight is Celestia's pupil." Those aren't opinions, they are just facts. And it is a fact that, for instance, Flim and Flam's vocabulary style is completely off. They don't talk like they're supposed to. That's just something that's true, it's not how percieve it, it's just how it is.

If I said "Flim and Flam are awesome characters", that would be my opinion. If I said "Flim and Flam are showponies who often con people and speak simultaneously and back and forth", that would be a fact.

54 minutes ago, Totally Totally said:

I agree with a lot of your bigger points up there, especially about the school and those six students. I think there's a major point to add that, at least to me, is more important than all of that put together. My Little Pony is a kids' show and is meant to just be a simple, fun show to watch. I don't hold it to the same standards I hold a lot of other shows/movies/books/etc. to. At the end of the day, all that matters to me is whether I got a good laugh or two and if the 20 minutes I spent watching it was worth it.

That said, season 8 still fell on it's face. I can count up to two, maybe three, episodes per season so far that were just stupid. They weren't entertaining in the least and left me wishing I had spent those 20 minutes watching paint dry instead. All of season 8's episodes have been like that though. Not a single one was worth watching.

There are a few other things I still hold more important, but I won't get into that episode 10 atrocity again. Main thing is, I agree completely that season 8 killed the show.

 

Rest in peace FiM era, you put forth a great show. :')

Definitely. Completely killed. No decent episodes besides perhaps Maud's stand-up comedyc lip in The Maud Couple. It happens to all TV shows eventually, and MLP had a great run before it happened. Seven seasons and a movie (although perhaps not the S7 finale) before it happened, which is quite a record. And you're right about The Break Up Breakdown being an atrocity.

Edited by PurpleWonderPower

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30 minutes ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Celestia and Luna bicker like a pair of spoiled, immature brats in A Royal Problem, and Celestia adopts a rather immature persona in Horse Play. And I don't want everypony reformed, far from it, just that Flim and Flam and Lightning Dust are terrific characters who should have been reformed. And I'll admit Season 1 was nothing special, but neither was Season 8. And I absolutely adored Season 6, what with those masterpieces like The Gift of Maud Pie, or Gauntlet of Fire, or The Times They Are A Changelingnot to mention Viva Las Pegasus and To Where And Back Again. Season 6 was actually my second favourite season.

Luna and Celestia also bickered in Slice of life too. I think that was the idea. They act like that around each other because they're siblings. Celestia lets down the princess-y facade she puts up when she's around her sister. She was also especially tired during the events of A Royal Problem.

4 minutes ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Thanks. To be honest, I had never really thought much about Flim and Flam, either, but when Friendship University came out, the difference was very noticeable, and it took me a while to figure out what it was.

I'm not using autism as an excuse to shove opinions down others' throats, I'm just saying that I'm exceptionally good at figuring out when things are not right. And some of them are my opinions, granted, but some of them are not opinions, but facts, such as the OOC characters not acting like themselves, or the Cutie Map's functions. They're not opinions, they're just facts.

OOC-ness is often a very subjective thing to judge. Because different people will read characters differently. They'll read their motivations differently, they'll read a character's actions differently. They'll rank certain priorities for that character differently. That's why there's such a large amount of discussion on characters in all kinds of shows. Some people think Light Yagami in Death Note is a complete monster for example. Others thought he was a good guy who was led astray. That all depends on how earnest you believe Light to be, which will vary from person to person since the actual show doesn't really let you know.

To use an MLP example, you said you didn't think Pinkie was acting out of character, she just wasn't as funny. A large number of people thought Pinkie WAS out of character this season. Because of how they read Pinkie and her actions. I disagree with them, I'm just saying that this kind of thing is what leads to discussions. Your interpretation of a character might be very different from mine, using the same information.

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4 minutes ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

But they aren't opinions. Opinions are what you think of something, say its quality, or its plot. A fact is just how somethings is. Like if I said "Spike has a crush on Rarity," or "Twilight is Celestia's pupil." Those aren't opinions, they are just facts. And it is a fact that, for instance, Flim and Flam's vocabulary style is completely off. They don't talk like they're supposed to. That's just something that's true, it's not how percieve it, it's just how it is.

If I said "Flim and Flam are awesome characters", that would be my opinion. If I said "Flim and Flam are showponies who often con people and speak simultaneously and back and forth", that would be a fact.

Definitely. It happens to all TV shows eventually, and MLP had a great run before it happened. Seven seasons and a movie (although perhaps not the S7 finale) before it happened, which is quite a record.

Saying they are ponies that con other ponies is a fact but stating that their vocabulary style is off is an opinion. How I perceive it is that they acted how they always acted in that one season 8 episode, I didn't notice anything being "off". That is the difference of perception. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't mean it's not wrong.

 

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3 minutes ago, TheTaZe said:

Saying they are ponies that con other ponies is a fact but stating that their vocabulary style is off is an opinion. How I perceive it is that they acted how they always acted in that one season 8 episode, I didn't notice anything being "off". That is the difference of perception. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't mean it's not wrong.

 

But their vocabulary is off. Flim and Flam are ponies who talk very fast and professionally, with elaborate vocabulary and very precise pronounciation. In Friendship University, their speech is all tacky and teenager style, without any bounce in their voices. If Rainbow Dash started using "darned tootin'" and "plum tuckered" in a high country accent, her vocabulary range and voice would be off, because that is not how Rainbow Dash speaks. Or if Applejack started using "fabulous" and "simply divine" and "darling", in a dainty voice like Rarity's, her vocabulary and voice would be off. Because that is not how they speak. The situation with Flim and Flam is the same.

Edited by PurpleWonderPower

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2 minutes ago, Sunlight Glisten said:

I agree with everything you've said except one. Sandbar is awesome!!!!

He's OK. And I don't dislike him, he just isn't a favourite.

20 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

Luna and Celestia also bickered in Slice of life too. I think that was the idea. They act like that around each other because they're siblings. Celestia lets down the princess-y facade she puts up when she's around her sister. She was also especially tired during the events of A Royal Problem.

OOC-ness is often a very subjective thing to judge. Because different people will read characters differently. They'll read their motivations differently, they'll read a character's actions differently. They'll rank certain priorities for that character differently. That's why there's such a large amount of discussion on characters in all kinds of shows. Some people think Light Yagami in Death Note is a complete monster for example. Others thought he was a good guy who was led astray. That all depends on how earnest you believe Light to be, which will vary from person to person since the actual show doesn't really let you know.

To use an MLP example, you said you didn't think Pinkie was acting out of character, she just wasn't as funny. A large number of people thought Pinkie WAS out of character this season. Because of how they read Pinkie and her actions. I disagree with them, I'm just saying that this kind of thing is what leads to discussions. Your interpretation of a character might be very different from mine, using the same information.

Luna and Celestia's bickering in Slice of Life was pretty OOC too, and like I've said, Celestia and Luna act differently a lot, but they still act like the same person. And about Pinkie, it would be reasonable to say she was out of character, as she wasn't acting out of character, but a lot of her Pinkie Pie lines were out of character.

Edited by PurpleWonderPower

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10 minutes ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

He's OK. And I don't dislike him, he just isn't a favourite.

Luna and Celestia's bickering in Slice of Life was pretty OOC too, and like I've said, Celestia and Luna act differently a lot, but they still act like the same person. And about Pinkie, it would be reasonable to say she was out of character, as she wasn't acting out of character, but a lot of her Pinkie Pie lines were out of character.

But if they consistantly bicker when they get annoyed around each other like that, is that being out of character? Surely that's just a character dynamic at that point. And as I Celestia was extra tired in A Royal Problem. Plus, I thought she was putting in more effort than Luna was. (since her pancakes actually changed based on what she saw Luna eating the previous day. Luna grabbed a pineapple, so the next day Tia made her pineapple pancakes.)

Edited by gingerninja666

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Just now, gingerninja666 said:

But if they consistantly bicker when they get annoyed around each other like that, is that being out of character? Surely that's just a character dynamic at that point. And as I Celestia was extra tired in A Royal Problem. Plus, I thought she was putting in more effort than Luna was. (since her pancakes actually changed based on what she saw Luna eating the previous day. Luna grabbed a pineapple, so the next day they were pineapple pancakes.)

I agree with you, it wouldn't be out of character to have disagreements and to argue with each other, but the point is, they argue like a pair of immature, bratty little four-year-olds, not princesses.

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Just now, PurpleWonderPower said:

I agree with you, it wouldn't be out of character to have disagreements and to argue with each other, but the point is, they argue like a pair of immature, bratty little four-year-olds, not princesses.

That's what I'm getting at. Luna kinda learned in ARP that Celestia puts on a face in front of other people. She smiles all the time. She listens. She acts as a wise voice of reason. That's how she does her job. But she lets that go around Luna because of how close they are. They're siblings. They grew up together. Even around Twilight, Celestia is still acting as a voice of comfort for her. She doesn't let herself go in the same way.

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Just now, gingerninja666 said:

That's what I'm getting at. Luna kinda learned in ARP that Celestia puts on a face in front of other people. She smiles all the time. She listens. She acts as a wise voice of reason. That's how she does her job. But she lets that go around Luna because of how close they are. They're siblings. They grew up together. Even around Twilight, Celestia is still acting as a voice of comfort for her. She doesn't let herself go in the same way.

Still. There's a difference between "letting yourself go" and just behaving like a brat.

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But hey, this is what happens when you have talented writers who are not committed and let you be stuck with writers who have no passion for the show's world and characters.

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6 minutes ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

Still. There's a difference between "letting yourself go" and just behaving like a brat.

She leads a stressful life where she constantly has to act like a prim and proper princess and regularly fails to get any reasonable amount of sleep because of her commitements. I'm willing to forgive her acting snippy and bickery towards the one pony she's comfortable enough with to act like that around.

Edited by gingerninja666

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That's a long ass list to read but I get the gist at a glance. I myself gave up at episode 5 of season 7 because quite frankly the writing had gotten too bad to bare.

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9 hours ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

The School of Friendship


For starters, the School of Friendship. Just about the worst idea in all the history of worst ideas. You can't teach friendship in a school! Friendship cannot be taught, it can only be learned. I mean, Twilight didn't learn friendship in a classroom, neither did Starlight, or any of the other ponies. Friendship is something you have to experience and discover for yourself and learn from it as you go. It isn't something you can just teach in a classroom. I mean, Princess Celestia didn't teach Twilight friendship in a classroom! She set her off on the right path and gave her all the space she needed to live her life and learn all her friendship lessons in her own time. That is the only way to learn about friendship! Not in some school! It's ridiculous! You can't TEACH friendship! Twilight, of all ponies should know that. 

Plus, how the heck do the Mane 6 have time to teach at the School? Applejack has a farm to work on, Rarity has three boutiques in Equestria to run, Fluttershy has an animal sanctuary to take care of, Pinkie Pie has Sugarcube Corner to work at and parties to throw, Rainbow Dash is a Wonderbolt and also has weather to clear, and Twilight has her royal duties. Plus, what about the Cutie Map? It just sends ponies off to random places at random times, which means the teachers have no idea when they'll have to suddenly run off and leave the school!

To add on to this Twilight was bad at running a school. She makes many mistakes in the first episode, doesn't learn anything from them, and chooses to start anew by her own rules. That episode made her rush on getting the school going. Makes her friends teachers and a last minute mention of having non-pony students on the spot.

There was also Neighsay. A lightning rod character to represent real world politics. Pretty convenient that Twilight could make some messes and wave it away while he's on screen. It also doesn't help that he does make some valid points given the past seasons of what Equestrian Kingdom went through but overshadowed by him saying it the way to press buttons..

Edited by Singe

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I definitely get a sense that the Friendship School was such a needless addition. There could have been many other ways to introduce these new characters that doesn't feel like some awkward toy shoe-in. And THANK YOU for bringing up Celestia in A Royal Problem and Horse Play. I hated both episodes with a passion and it was Celestia's (and Luna;s in ARP) portrayal that destroyed it. Celestia in Horse Play was not only a total moron, but the fact that she got so damn pouty at the end hurt her character immensely, in my view. It was just awful. The show as of late has really been treating Twilight like shit and making her look like a fool while still treating the Mary-Sue incarnate Starlight as a god and that has hurt my appeal to the show lately. I am nowhere near caught up with it as I have had no real motivation to watch the rest of the season so far.

There is a lot in your post so responding to all of it would be near impossible for me, it would take forever. XD But even if I don't agree with absolutely everything, I respect how in-depth you went and how much you explained. It shows passion, it shows that you care about the show and its characters.

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5 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

I definitely get a sense that the Friendship School was such a needless addition. There could have been many other ways to introduce these new characters that doesn't feel like some awkward toy shoe-in. And THANK YOU for bringing up Celestia in A Royal Problem and Horse Play. I hated both episodes with a passion and it was Celestia's (and Luna;s in ARP) portrayal that destroyed it. Celestia in Horse Play was not only a total moron, but the fact that she got so damn pouty at the end hurt her character immensely, in my view. It was just awful. The show as of late has really been treating Twilight like shit and making her look like a fool while still treating the Mary-Sue incarnate Starlight as a god and that has hurt my appeal to the show lately. I am nowhere near caught up with it as I have had no real motivation to watch the rest of the season so far.

There is a lot in your post so responding to all of it would be near impossible for me, it would take forever. XD But even if I don't agree with absolutely everything, I respect how in-depth you went and how much you explained. It shows passion, it shows that you care about the show and its characters.

Aw, that's sweet. No one's ever said that to me before. And YES, THANK YOU about Celestia, it was driving me up the walls! Horse Play was just the abomination of the season. I couldn't think for days without cringing. And about Starlight, yeah, she seems to have replaced Twilight as the main character, and Twilight is acting way unlike herself. It's like she has no sense of trust, common sense or compassion anymore. And the School of Friendship was definitely needless, and also a pretty stupid idea. Teaching friendship in a classroom with exam papers and revision guides and worksheets like it's maths or science or english. It's just....no.

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Just now, PurpleWonderPower said:

Aw, that's sweet. No one's ever said that to me before. And YES, THANK YOU about Celestia, it was driving me up the walls! Horse Play was just the abomination of the season. I couldn't think for days without cringing. And about Starlight, yeah, she seems to have replaced Twilight as the main character, and Twilight is acting way unlike herself. It's like she has no sense of trust, common sense or compassion anymore. And the School of Friendship was definitely needless, and also a pretty stupid idea. Teaching friendship in a classroom with exam papers and revision guides and worksheets like it's maths or science or english. It's just....no.

I don't quite get this Twilight point. She was acting perfectly fine and nice in Rockhoof and a hard place, MEan 6, The Washouts, Hearthswarming Club, Surf and/or Turf.

I definitely don't understand claiming that Starlight has replaced her as the main character. Considering she got barely any focus this season (3 focus episodes, one in which she didn't know the solution and one where she was arguably the bad guy) and was captured offscreen in the finale while Twi and the girls got a whole subplot.

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Just now, gingerninja666 said:

I don't quite get this Twilight point. She was acting perfectly fine and nice in Rockhoof and a hard place, MEan 6, The Washouts, Hearthswarming Club, Surf and/or Turf.

I definitely don't understand claiming that Starlight has replaced her as the main character. Considering she got barely any focus this season (3 focus episodes, one in which she didn't know the solution and one where she was arguably the bad guy) and was captured offscreen in the finale while Twi and the girls got a whole subplot.

She didn't act like that in all her episodes, but in several. And since the beginning of Season 7, there have been an awful lot more episodes revolving around Starlight than Twilight. That's my point. Personally I love Starlight, but I do wish for more Twilight episodes.

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@PurpleWonderPower

I was born with a form of Austism called Asperger's Syndrome. 

In spite of your strong belief that S8 is the worst, I love it a lot for trying new things.

S8 is not perfect. No season is absolutely perfect. The point is if a show/episode/whatever can find a crowd to appeal to, then, I say it's doing its job just fine.

That is my belief in life.

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