Why I Hate MLP Season 8

[gingerninja666 487]

4 minutes ago, PurpleWonderPower said:

She didn't act like that in all her episodes, but in several. And since the beginning of Season 7, there have been an awful lot more episodes revolving around Starlight than Twilight. That's my point. Personally I love Starlight, but I do wish for more Twilight episodes.

But I feel like Starlight's role in season 8 is a lot less than it was even in last season. Twi's role is so much bigger by virtue of the number of character's she's connected to and her role as headmare.

[Will Guide 21,325]

Also, Celestia and Lunar "bickering like foals" is exactly what many siblings do from time to time, no matter what their age of maturity is. Showing this less than perfect side of them in a Royal Problem makes them more identifiable and relatable to the viewers, which I believe is very important.

This is my final word on this topic. 

Nothing is perfect, there's always going to be flaws and obstacles for everyone to face in their lives.

And different people have different reactions to the same thing. That's what helps makes us each an individual being.

and the reason why perfectly valid tropes such as Alternative Character Interpretation and Broken Base exists.

Look them up on TV Tropes, if you wish

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Willusion

[RulesofRarity 489]

1 hour ago, Singe said:

 

There was also Neighsay. A lightning rod character to represent real world politics. Pretty convenient that Twilight could make some messes and wave it away while he's on screen. It also doesn't help that he does make some valid points given the past seasons of what Equestrian Kingdom went through but overshadowed by him saying it the way to press buttons..

They made Neighsay a racist to give the audience no choice but to side with Twilight because as you said Neighsay did make valid points, he hit the mark with everything he said about the school. Irresponsible teachers? Check! None of the Mane Six are qualified to teach. Students skipping classes? Check! Endangering ponies? One of the students turned into a bugbear and destroyed part of the school and almost crushed someone!

The entire episode was just a giant middle finger to government oversight over education. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by RulesofRarity

[gingerninja666 487]

4 minutes ago, RulesofRarity said:

They made Neighsay a racist to give the audience no choice but to side with Twilight because as you said Neighsay did make valid points, he hit the mark with everything he said about the school. Irresponsible teachers? Check! None of the Mane Six are qualified to teach. Students skipping classes? Check! Endangering ponies? One of the students turned into a bugbear and destroyed part of the school and almost crushed someone!

The entire episode was just a giant middle finger to government oversight over education. 

Well, the only reason they skipped class was because lessons were forcefully being taught the EEA way. Since Twi's rules came into effect there's been no skipping of classes. The students considered it in Friendship University, but Rarity shot them down.

[PurpleWonderPower 81]

23 minutes ago, Willusion said:

Also, Celestia and Lunar "bickering like foals" is exactly what many siblings do from time to time, no matter what their age of maturity is. Showing this less than perfect side of them in a Royal Problem makes them more identifiable and relatable to the viewers, which I believe is very important.

This is my final word on this topic. 

Nothing is perfect, there's always going to be flaws and obstacles for everyone to face in their lives.

And different people have different reactions to the same thing. That's what helps makes us each an individual being.

and the reason why perfectly valid tropes such as Alternative Character Interpretation and Broken Base exists.

Look them up on TV Tropes, if you wish

 

I know there are flaws in everything, but flaws in MLP in the past have been as trivial as timeline errors and improper layering. These ones are really big, and just ruin the show for me, ecspecially all the OOC characters.

33 minutes ago, Willusion said:

@PurpleWonderPower

I was born with a form of Austism called Asperger's Syndrome. 

In spite of your strong belief that S8 is the worst, I love it a lot for trying new things.

S8 is not perfect. No season is absolutely perfect. The point is if a show/episode/whatever can find a crowd to appeal to, then, I say it's doing its job just fine.

That is my belief in life.

Also, I'm not talking about autism affecting my opinions, I'm talking about when something is not right, such as Discord and Flim and Flam's off vocabulary, or Spitfire's lunatic behaviour in The Washouts, or all the episodes that don't tally with previous episodes. That's not just opinions, they are straight facts.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

The normies shall judge it. And they shall forget about it. And H-Bro shall bleed. These are the conditions of a hater's victory.

[Sunlight Glisten 368]

@PurpleWonderPower

Completely off topic but damn girl you can write!

I teach 15 year olds and even my best students can't write nearly as well as you do. 

"Come back tomorrow, my good sir, where my brother and I shall very gladly grant you these fine and, might I add, quite superlatively remarkable scriptures, for the right price, naturally!"

pure gold. 

Like apply to be a writer at Hasbro. The ponies need you. The fate of equestria hangs in the balance. 

[RulesofRarity 489]

40 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

Well, the only reason they skipped class was because lessons were forcefully being taught the EEA way. Since Twi's rules came into effect there's been no skipping of classes. The students considered it in Friendship University, but Rarity shot them down.

The EEA way worked fine for every other school in Equestria, including Celestia’s school for gifted unicorns the same school that Twilight herself went to. The issue was the Mane 5 being unqualified teachers(Rainbow Dash, herself remarks about them being horrible teachers and I especially concur after “Non-compete Clause”) but honestly because how do you teach a nebulous concept such as friendship? The school being a complete flop should’ve triggered Twilight to rethink things but instead we have our main herorine bypassing education standards  to force her own authority.

Edited September 15, 2018 by RulesofRarity

[PurpleWonderPower 81]

9 minutes ago, Sunlight Glisten said:

@PurpleWonderPower

Completely off topic but damn girl you can write!

I teach 15 year olds and even my best students can't write nearly as well as you do. 

"Come back tomorrow, my good sir, where my brother and I shall very gladly grant you these fine and, might I add, quite superlatively remarkable scriptures, for the right price, naturally!"

pure gold. 

Like apply to be a writer at Hasbro. The ponies need you. The fate of equestria hangs in the balance. 

Awww, thanks! I've just gotten accustomed to Flim and Flam's professional showpony speech, and that just seemed like the perfect thing for them to say. And  I agree, I do think Hasbro needs some better writers, and not to brag, but I like some of my episode ideas a lot better than the actual Season 8 ones.

Thank you for compliment

[gingerninja666 487]

Just now, RulesofRarity said:

The EEA way worked fine for every other school in Equestria, including Celestia’s school for gifted unicorns the same school that Twilight herself went to. The issue was the Mane 5 being unqualified teachers(Rainbow Dash, herself remarks about them being horrible teachers and I especially concur after “Non-compete Clause”) but honestly because how do you teach a nebulous concept such as friendship? The school being a complete flop should’ve triggered Twilight to rethink things but instead we have our main herorine bypassing education standards  to force her own authority.

The EEA way worked fine because they weren't teaching friendship. A concept Twilight described as very unique and requiring a unique staff and manner of teaching. I feel like people ignore that whole part of the episode. They assume the EEA is right because it is old. Well, we thought the world was flat for millenia until we didn't anymore. Just because the EEA is old doesn't mean they're always going to know the right course of action.

[Steve Piranha 28,778]

5 hours ago, DonMaguz said:

@PurpleWonderPower I had a blast reading your thoughts on season 8, too bad you feel about it that way.

I can see how FiM is such a big deal to you, but you seem to have stopped having fun with it because of thinking too much about it. I wouldn't say you should stop analyzing the show you love, but maybe you should try to have a bit more fun in getting entertained from it.

I agree with some of your points, but at the end I thought the season as a whole was entertaining and funny to watch, definitely not the best one though.

Well, I couldn’t read it all, however, what little I could read, while I don’t agree overall, she got a point in some cases. The School of Friendship for example, a school that teaches friendship.... it by itself it’s goes beyond the suspension of disbelief considering FIM’s considerable use of Reality Ensues. Having teachers who already have busy life careers each one of them is pretty logical by comparison. I guess the writers couldn’t find a way to make it work without being jarring .

she also get points with Pink’s humor, but I think that’s a problem that the show has been dragging for longer

but I agree with your second paragraph, while it’s ok to point out absurd details the show has, I don’t think it’s worth stop having fun over it, as it’ll sour your love for the show in the end. That’s why I’ve stopped ponies analysis videos back in S3, their analysis became increasingly sour, to the point that you feel they no longer have any love for ponies

 

4 hours ago, Kadeda said:

I personally disagree with a lot of what you are saying (When was Celestia acting like an immature kid? Why would you want everyone reformed?) but it seems like you've thought it through. I can give you that much but so far... I will say that I think season 8 is a very mediocre season. It's better than the worst seasons... (1,3,6) (Which for the record I still think are really good but something gotta be last.) but not quite on par with the best (5,7,4,2).

I think that’s S8’s saving grace, as it doesn’t have that many great episodes, but at least it doesn’t have many duds either 

[Singe 2,109]

13 minutes ago, RulesofRarity said:

The EEA way worked fine for every other school in Equestria, including Celestia’s school for gifted unicorns the same school that Twilight herself went to. The issue was the Mane 5 being unqualified teachers(Rainbow Dash, herself remarks about them being horrible teachers and I especially concur after “Non-compete Clause”) but honestly because how do you teach a nebulous concept such as friendship? The school being a complete flop should’ve triggered Twilight to rethink things but instead we have our main herorine bypassing education standards  to force her own authority.

Yes, the EEA is not at a fault for any of this mess but tends to be the scapegoat. Twilight was the one who went to the EEA and made the decision to run her school by the EEA guidelines. The buck stops with her for choosing an incompatible program to help run her school.  

Edited September 15, 2018 by Singe

[gingerninja666 487]

Just now, Singe said:

Yes, the EEA is not at a fault for any of this mess but tends to be the scapegoat. Twilight was the one who went to the EEA and made the decision to run her school by the EEA guidelines. The buck stops with her for choosing an incompatible program to help run her school.  

And then she stopped following their guidelines when she realized it was incompatible. Really, Twilight only went to them because she was under the impression that she HAD to go to them. And Neighsay himself took massive issue with Twilight choosing to forsake the EEA. When are they used as a scapegoat? Twilight never really complains about Neighsay or the EEA. She even insisted to the CMC in MArks that they need to go to Cheerilee's school, not hers. So she understands the value in the EEA's methods.

[RulesofRarity 489]

29 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

The EEA way worked fine because they weren't teaching friendship. A concept Twilight described as very unique and requiring a unique staff and manner of teaching. I feel like people ignore that whole part of the episode. They assume the EEA is right because it is old. Well, we thought the world was flat for millenia until we didn't anymore. Just because the EEA is old doesn't mean they're always going to know the right course of action.

As @PurpleWonderPower said friendship isn’t something that can be taught in a classroom. In fact, the idea it can now be taught artificially in a school goes against the first three seasons of this show. That being said I don’t assume the EEA’s way is right because it’s old, assume it’s right because it’s purpose to oversee education is one it does effectively. Compare this against a pony with a history of questionable teaching methods, a tendency for being hypocritical and throwing out false accusations, recklessness when solving certain problems and callousness when dealing with children.

[Will Guide 21,325]

17 minutes ago, RulesofRarity said:

As @PurpleWonderPower said friendship isn’t something that can be taught in a classroom. In fact, the idea it can now be taught artificially in a school goes against the first three seasons of this show. That being said I don’t assume the EEA’s way is right because it’s old, assume it’s right because it’s purpose to oversee education is one it does effectively. Compare this against a pony with a history of questionable teaching methods, a tendency for being hypocritical and throwing out false accusations, recklessness when solving certain problems and callousness when dealing with children.

Think of it this way, the school helps gives a great opportunity for many mon-ponies races to come and comingle with each other. And really, there's nothing wrong with getting different races to come together. Simple as that.

[gingerninja666 487]

25 minutes ago, RulesofRarity said:

As @PurpleWonderPower said friendship isn’t something that can be taught in a classroom. In fact, the idea it can now be taught artificially in a school goes against the first three seasons of this show. That being said I don’t assume the EEA’s way is right because it’s old, assume it’s right because it’s purpose to oversee education is one it does effectively. Compare this against a pony with a history of questionable teaching methods, a tendency for being hypocritical and throwing out false accusations, recklessness when solving certain problems and callousness when dealing with children.

But the EEA WANTED Twi to teach friendship in a classroom. In an even drier way. So the criticism of the school being dumb isn't really solved regardless of who's in charge, but at least Twilight wanted the unique perspectives of her friends to teach the studentsin a more practical way. Neighsay and the EEA council liked the idea of the school, but wanted to co-opt it for their own purposes. That being to teach ponies how to defend themselves. From the very beginning they missed the point of everything Twi wanted to do. Including teaching other races. Something the EEA wouldn't allow. You can't put Twi on blast for her flaws while ignoring the flaws of the EEA.

Edited September 15, 2018 by gingerninja666

[Kadeda 178]

1 hour ago, Steve Piranha said:

Well, I couldn’t read it all, however, what little I could read, while I don’t agree overall, she got a point in some cases. The School of Friendship for example, a school that teaches friendship.... it by itself it’s goes beyond the suspension of disbelief considering FIM’s considerable use of Reality Ensues. Having teachers who already have busy life careers each one of them is pretty logical by comparison. I guess the writers couldn’t find a way to make it work without being jarring .

she also get points with Pink’s humor, but I think that’s a problem that the show has been dragging for longer

but I agree with your second paragraph, while it’s ok to point out absurd details the show has, I don’t think it’s worth stop having fun over it, as it’ll sour your love for the show in the end. That’s why I’ve stopped ponies analysis videos back in S3, their analysis became increasingly sour, to the point that you feel they no longer have any love for ponies

 

I think that’s S8’s saving grace, as it doesn’t have that many great episodes, but at least it doesn’t have many duds either 

Yeah... I find myself liking it more as i watch the episodes. Perhaps saying that it was very mediocre was to strong a description. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Kadeda

[RulesofRarity 489]

13 minutes ago, Willusion said:

Think of it this way, the school helps gives a great opportunity for many mon-ponies races to come and comingle with each other. And really, there's nothing wrong with getting different races to come together. Simple as that.

Does it though? The only non-ponies that were invited to study at the school are the members of the Student Six, the rest of the school are ponies. 

19 minutes ago, gingerninja666 said:

But the EEA WANTED Twi to teach friendship in a classroom. In an even drier way. So the criticism of the school being dumb isn't really solved regardless of who's in charge, but at least Twilight wanted the unique perspectives of her friends to teach the studentsin a more practical way. Neighsay and the EEA council liked the idea of the school, but wanted to co-opt it for their own purposes. That being to teach ponies how to defend themselves. From the very beginning they missed the point of everything Twi wanted to do. Including teaching other races. Something the EEA wouldn't allow. You can't put Twi on blast for her flaws while ignoring the flaws of the EEA.

It’s true that the EEA, more specifically Neighsay, were down for a school for ponies learning to defend themselves. This makes sense considering that ponies were completely powerless against the Storm King’s forces in the movie. However, Twilight has the right intentions but we can’t expect everypony to buy that friendship can solve all of Equestria’s woes no matter how much the writers have been pushing that narrative recently.

[Singe 2,109]

2 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

From the very beginning they missed the point of everything Twi wanted to do. Including teaching other races. Something the EEA wouldn't allow. You can't put Twi on blast for her flaws while ignoring the flaws of the EEA.

Twilight was not completely forth coming with the EEA of her plans for the university and not correcting them when they assumed its purpose. She only brought up teaching non-pony students on the first day of school after telling her friends they'll be teaching by the EEA book. When Neighsay came in for a surprise inspection, she didn't help her case. She deceived Neighsay to hide her students were skipping, never told him the school was also teaching a small number of non-ponies, and the whole incident caused by the Young Six completely destroys any credibility she had of being "competent" in his eyes.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Singe

[gingerninja666 487]

1 minute ago, Singe said:

Twilight was not completely forth coming with the EEA of her plans for the university and not correcting them when they assumed it's purpose. She only brought up teaching non-pony students on the first day of school after telling her friends they'll be teaching by the EEA book. When Neighsay came in for a surprise inspection, she didn't help her case. She deceived Neighsay to hide her students were skipping, never told him the school was also teaching a small number of non-ponies, and the whole incident caused by the Young Six completely destroys any credibility she had of being "competent" in his eyes.

She did correct them. They didn't listen.

Quote

"A school for PONIES to learn how to protect themselves.

"Uh, more like respecting differences and communicating."

Twilight assumed they weren't racist. So she didn't think she needed to elaborate beyond that.

Like, the episode doesn't really treat Neighsay's school related concerns as wrong. The cast ARE bad teachers under the EEA styles. That's why Twilight dropped it. It wasn't a good fit for her school. Neighsay tries to interject beyond that though. He tries to say that changing the rules won't work BECAUSE they're not ponies.

[Will Guide 21,325]

I'm just going to leave these points of fridge brilliance pointed out to some explanation of Neighsay and his style of "racism" toward the non-ponies. I may not like how he treated the students early on but these points bring some peace of mind:

QUOTE from Tvtropes Fridge Brilliance for MLP Season 8 School Daze

While the chancellor is most certainly racist and nothing is an excuse for that, it doesn't help that the five races he's racist towards had, at one point or another, opposed Equestria, some of them even bringing about their almost doom (and a number of them are themselves quite distrustful and racist toward each other).

The obvious example are changelings, which have committed two successful invasions and whose sadistic former Queen is still at large. Thorax is painfully aware of how much justification the other races have for not trusting changelings, making him the only leader to not blame anyone when problems occur.

Second obvious are the Dragons, where the bigger ones are outright intimidating, and their teenagers are just as much of jerks. One of them had the idea to invadeEquestria if he was made king. And while usually reasonable, Ember proves to have quite a dangerous temper herself.

The Griffons, while just mere greedy jerks, were incredibly stingy with their money and apathetic toward others. The first two ponies to travel to their lands since the decline of the Griffon Kingdom, who are also the Elements of Harmony and ergo the only things being in between a villain and world domination, nearly died due to the Griffons' greed/apathy.

The Yaks refused contact with Equestria for generations, and declared war at a minor deception that was only done to try to please them. They've mellowed slightly but can still prove difficult to deal with.

The Hippogriffs have been absent for a very long while and they were very reluctant to help out Equestria in their time of need until one of them was convinced otherwise. Doubly so for their leader, who not only personally refused to help, but also evicted the bearers of the Elements in quite a dangerous manner when one of them got desperate. It's only natural that they'd be suspicious towards this new race of creatures.

Adding to the above Fridge, there may be another reason Chancellor Neighsay is bigoted towards the other races: "Fame and Misfortune". If this book truly was read by ponies across Equestria, chances are he may have been one of those ponies. And like the Loony Fans, he may have missed out on the friendship lessons and been more interested in the journals' other contents. On one hoof, it's a good thing because the journals made him more aware of all the "good works" the Mane 6 have done. On the other hoof, it's bad because the journals are outdated about Equestria's allies:

The only mention of griffons (aside from Chef Gustav) is Gilda, and unfortunately, her debut understandably left a badimpression.

There are only two kinds of dragons we know from seasons 1-4: greedy grown dragons (like the one from "Owl's well that ends well") and delinquent teenage dragons (like Garble and his buddies). Spike may be the exception, but the Chancellor figures that it's only because Spike was raised by ponies that he turned out okay.

Changelings go without saying. Their only debut in the first four seasons ("A Canterlot Wedding") chronicles how they and their former queen not only invaded Equestria, but tricked everyone into turning against Twilight, including her friends AND her own big brother.

As for the Yaks and Hippogriffs, they aren't even mentioned, making them rather unknown. And that of course leads to "fear of the unknown"

END QUOTE

What Neighsay needs to learn is not all dragons/changelings/ etc. are like that.

[Singe 2,109]

1 hour ago, gingerninja666 said:

She did correct them. They didn't listen.

Twilight assumed they weren't racist. So she didn't think she needed to elaborate beyond that.

 

Quote

Twilight Sparkle: My journey beyond Equestria showed me firsthoof that the threats out there are greater than we imagined!

[EEA members hushed whispering]

Twilight Sparkle: If we want to keep our land safe and create a friendlier tomorrow, we need to teach the Magic of Friendship far and wide.

Neighsay: A school for ponies to learn how to protect themselves.

Twilight Sparkle: Uh, more like respecting differences and communicating.

[long pause]

Neighsay: The EEA concurs. Every pony should be prepared to defend our way of life. So, if your work is in order, provisional EEA approval is granted. We will need to observe your school up and running before it can be fully accredited.

Twilight Sparkle: Then please, join us for Friends and Family Day. It'll be the perfect time to see our progress!

Twilight's pitch is the idea of there are threats and security is important. However she does fail to specifically elaborate on the ideal purpose of her school to foster friendships with other creatures that were or are still hostile for the security of the kingdom.

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Singe

[Ganondox 899]

Why are people so opposed to the idea of social skills being taught in institutions? It’s something that can be and IS taught, and frankly it should be taught more. It’s not like the school is assigning friends or anything. 

[Will Guide 21,325]

37 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

Why are people so opposed to the idea of social skills being taught in institutions? It’s something that can be and IS taught, and frankly it should be taught more. It’s not like the school is assigning friends or anything. 

Exactly. In middle school and high school I attend a group therapy to improve my social skills. Twilight's Friendship School is no different and shouldn't be dismissed like that.

See what I mean, @Ganondox?

Edited September 16, 2018 by Willusion

[Singe 2,109]

41 minutes ago, Willusion said:

Exactly. In middle school and high school I attend a group therapy to improve my social skills. Twilight's Friendship School is no different and shouldn't be dismissed like that.

See what I mean, @Ganondox?

It seems more an exaggeration that Twilight needs an entire school with the sole focus on teaching an entire friendship curriculum when at most, social skills can be taught on a smaller scale like a single class. What they're trying to create is friendship experiences in an artificial controlled setting.